sees_all1

No, actually, it really is a reputation bar. If you create a profile there, you'll start out with 0 reputation and 1 green spot. I have ~400 posts on that forum, and a full bar of reputation, because I have 3517 reputation points. My rep power is 50. The people that have ~4000 posts have whats called a rep bomb, about 200-300 points (its capped I think). There's a similar system in place on either the java or sun forums (I can't remember which) called duke stars, except the rep system is for answering questions, and you can only award 5 or 10 at a time (and you can't take any away). Also, you'll notice there's a similar system youtube, except its on a post - by - post basis. :/ Sorry to see that you disagree, but thanks for the responses.

Langer, I honestly could care less if F2P was given a boss monster or not. I'd like to have the position that releasing these bosses would help P2P more than F2P, but it seems certain individuals can't get past the fact that this debate isn't about F2P getting moar stuff. I believe its well known on these forums how I feel about F2P's combat triangle, please excuse me if what I've said seems counter to it. What do you mean by "huge amount of profit"? Last I checked, making arrows resulted as a loss.... EDIT: making them indeed results in a loss... around 10-15 gps per arrow... only good for xp. Take a look at the price range for arrow heads again, its capped at 160. I suppose the prices of adamant bars have changed since I last checked, the demand is there yet Jagex won't let it go higher. Another point though: that is extremely cheap xp for smithing. Combine the cheap xp with capped price of arrow heads, and you have what would've been an excellent item to smith.

[rant] I need to vent. Several topics that I've posted on have been hijacked by trolls. Whats worse is that they seem to be supporting each other, and not providing any useful ideas, points, or counter points to the discussion (hence trolling). When I disagree with someone, I make an honest effort to understand their point of view, believe me, its difficult. Whenever I post to a thread, I always make sure that I read the first post, and understand it. It usually takes me 15-30 minutes to post something, because I spend so much time reading and re-reading what I write, carefully trying to make sure it makes sense. These idiots do nothing like that. I post on tip.it because its specifically NOT the RSOF. I come here because I don't like being trolled by people who seem to have the mental capacity of a four year old. But now, it seems, there are three or four active trolls. I know there's a report abuse button, but no action seems to be taken against the trolls. I also hate spamming the mods. I guess what I have to say is GTFO TROLL [/rant] BTW - Thank you to those that make thoughtful posts, contribute to discussions, and have maturity beyond your years. You're the reason I'll stick it out.

Alright, this idea is not my own. On another forum, there's a feature called reputation. Here's the forum: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/portal.php Please note that this is a robotics forum, and it has an active, thriving community. Anyhow, if you take a look at people who post, they usually will have one or more green bars on the top of their post. Its easier to see if you visit the forums and open a thread. On the left side, you'll see their user name, their user title, their team number, and the position on the team. On the right side, you'll see their join date, their rookie year, their location, their post count, and their reputation. What's nice about reputation is the fact that everyone has one, and everyone is able to give feedback on people's posts. For instance, if you liked the way someone answered your post, you can increase their reputation. If you didn't like what they said, you can give neutral reputation (constructive feedback), and if what they posted was absolutely atrocious, you can leave negative reputation (i.e. damage it). Long time members will have a full green bar, meaning they've posted many things that were helpful. Newly registered users will have just one green square. Reputation is an incentive for making thoughtful posts. Also, the amount your reputation affects those around you is determined by three factors: your reputation, your post count, and how often you give reputation. When you give reputation to someone, you're not allowed to give it to them again until a fairly long time (about two weeks). Also, when someone gives you reputation, they're allowed to leave a personal message (this is why I'm doing this). Thoughts?

No, they don't want to give them to F2P because they don't want to use them, they want to give them to F2P because they want to use them. The idea, as difficult as it may be to grasp, is that making the KBD F2P will wildly increase the price of the dragon med helm, and other items surrounding it, making it more worthwhile to be P2P. Here's a perfect example: Adamant arrows. If the highest arrow F2Pers were allowed to use were mithril arrows, adamant arrows would be worth squat. There would be no reason to smith/fletch them, absolutely no demand. But since F2P is allowed to use adamant arrows, there is a huge demand, and a huge amount of profit available to P2Pers.

If you read the OP, you'll notice that the author is in fact a P2Per, one of your own. I believe the point of this thread was that certain monsters are outdated, and that needs to be remedied. If your only counter is that F2P should pay to get more content, you missed the entire point of this thread. Let me restate to be very clear: This thread is about benefiting members by making outdated monsters worthwhile. I'm sure the OP would be very grateful if you had other ideas in order to make these monsters worthwhile again. Let me rephrase that for you - Because the idea to benefit members also benefits f2pers in a negligible way, I'm against it. If they want our outdated worthless content, they should pay $5.95 a month too, so that they too can ignore it and use the better updated content.

I'm sorry, but the democrats had a 60 vote super majority, they could have rammed through any piece of super partisan legislation they wanted, and I mean ANYTHING, and yet you're still blaming the other party? Not only could they have passed whatever legislation, but they have majorities in the house, and they've got a liberal in the white house. Don't blame the other party for the "gridlock" - its the dem's own fault for not passing legislation. Sure you can blame the GOP now, but you literally had a year to do anything your party pleased. Sounds like you need a better whip. The founding fathers designed congress to gridlock so that one party couldn't pass legislation all willy-nilly. Thank God that gridlock is now back in place. GF dems.

I enjoyed both articles, thanks for the reads.

Alright, so after some thought, here's what I've come up with for dragon: Item Level able Level guaranteed (theoretical) dagger 60 122 axe 61 123 mace 61 124 med helm 62 125 bolts 62 125 dart tips 62 126 sword 62 126 arrow heads 63 127 hasta 63 127 scimitar 63 127 spear 63 127 pickaxe 63 127 limbs 63 128 long sword 63 128 throwing knives 64 129 full helm 64 129 square shield 64 130 warhammer 65 131 battle axe 65 132 chain body 66 133 kite shield 66 134 claws 67 135 2 hand sword 67 136 plate skirt 68 138 plate legs 68 138 plate body 69 140 Crossbow limbs aren't sharpened, they would be buffered (not that there's any in existence yet, or kite shields for that matter). I'm probably going to change the amount of scrap that comes back. Experience would be about 2-3x as much as adamant gives. Also, I'm thinking there should be a way to obtain dragon bars. Something like, use a fully charged dragonfire shield on a runite and steel bar, or you have to expose a runite bar to a dragon's breathe using some new shield which holds a couple. Idk, this idea is still in its infancy. Once I get the details hammered out, I'll post to the RSOF. Thanks for the feedback.

This has happened in other games, but one side effect of having real money exchange hands is - believe it or not - prostitution. There's some post on the internet about how some guy had people pay him game currency in exchange for some random girl to cyber with them. The pimp would then take the game currency, sell it to RWTer's for cash, and use some of it to pay the random girl off. I know that's one example, and that I haven't provided a source at all, but believe me - when real world currencies start changing hands, the game no longer becomes a game and becomes a business scam. Also, this would violate the ToS - "your" character, "your" bank, "your" experience all remain property of Jagex, you can't legally sell something you don't own.

I'm going to try and remain as calm as possible when replying to this, because you are trying my patience. [hide=off topic] I am happy with F2P runescape as it is. If I wasn't happy, I would be playing some other game. I choose to play runescape as a F2Per not because I can't afford P2P, not because I enjoy having whiny members flaming me because I don't pay, not because I want to freeload, but because I enjoy a challenge and I enjoy the effort I've put into my account. It's something you as a member could hardly understand. You all b**** and moan about how expensive construction, summoning are, how slow slayer, runecrafting and mining are. F2P is 10x more difficult than P2P, in the time that it takes and the effort we put into it. When you complain, you somehow feel justified because you're chipping into jagex's pot, making contributions. When we complain, you like to tell us to shut up and pay. Sometimes the things we ask for are pretty reasonable. For instance, I've been an advocate of improving the combat triangle, because its in a laughable state right now. I want runescape as a whole to be improved, and not in an us versus them kind of fashion. Things that are broken need to be fixed, things that would improve the game as a whole should be implemented. I'm going to say this again: This thread is not about me, or any other individual F2Per. I would appreciate it if your posts were not directed specifically at me. [/hide] The things that the KBD drops are pathetic. Its not even a challenge anymore for nubs in welfare gear. The amount of effort put in to kill it doesn't justify the reward. The dragon med helm is worth squat right now. People rarely use it, there's no reason to. It has the exact same status as a rune med helm, just worth 5x in an alch. These two pieces of content are old and outdated. If Jagex were to release the KBD as a F2P boss, it would get use. If Jagex were to release the dragon med helm as a F2P item, it would skyrocket in value. If the only way to obtain this item in F2P were by killing the KBD, the dragon med helm would be something of a rarity, like god or trimmed armour. Also, dragon med helms would be 10x more easily obtainable in members than F2P, meaning that it would become a better way for mid level members to make money. Its beneficial to both sides. The argument that releasing one piece of dragon armour to F2P would require all released is a baseless one. Members still have parts of the dragon set that are missing, one that comes to mind is the dragon kiteshield. [hide=moar off topic] While you're entitled to that opinion, it is pretty irrelevant in this thread. If you want to complain about F2Pers, how about you make a rant instead. [/hide]

That's not the point of this thread. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

Jrhairychest, I shouldn't let stupid things bother me but they do. And I have a fairly long memory, especially for those that are disrespectful. I'll treat you as a troll until you can prove yourself otherwise. Quite making this about me. YOU have no idea of who I am, or what I do. YOU do not know if I have a members account, or what I pay jagex each month. The only thing YOU know about me is what I let you know. Jrhairychest, do you even understand what my points or arguments are? If you think that my only purpose posting on here is to make the point "OMG F2P NEEDS MORE STUFF BECAUSE WE LIKE TO FREELOADZZZZZ!!!!!", you're sadly mistaken. You know whats funny? "To be honest Id be a tad embarrassed at getting something for free, then complaining I want more." I picture you as a whiny 14 year old, begging your parents for more stuff. Maybe if you tried for a second to stop trying to look intelligent or points score you may get somewhere. You don't have to prove anything to me you know if you're trying to do this. I'll forgive you this as it gave me a good laugh.

Runescape will end with Andrew sells off his shares of Jagex to some company that isn't interested in running its business model. And as far as I'm concerned, runescape will end when I quit. :P

You say "claim" as if there's no basis for it, which is ridiculous. Fine, but you're getting away from the OP. The reason Hagge created this thread was to make a better argument for putting outdated boss monsters on F2P. If the only thing people say is "F2P doesn't pay so no", they're not being constructive. Lets all stop beating that dead horse, get back on topic. OTHER than the fact that F2P is free, why would releasing older, dated content to the free version be a bad thing?

My current goal is to get 77? woodcutting. But that's because I used the "random goal" thingy. In the long run, I'll have maxed f2p. My goal for the end of this year is to have 1250? total levels. My goal next year will probably be to get on the top 250 list, unless I can't keep up with the new skill. Also, that 1250 does not include the new skill, my goal will be 1320 once the new skill is released. Cheers.

RAWR! Inflation is not a problem to the average 'scaper! Inflation hurts those with many GP, and only if they have no money tied up in items. Saying otherwise is foolish, and trying to "fix" or "stop" it is a stupid idea.

You should take a look at my other idea that's been floating around for a long time, the spellbook. Then you'll know that I love incorporating input, I figure a product of the masses usually is better than something I could dream up myself. I'll probably have this idea in a better shape by monday.

@Crimson I like your suggested improvements, and I'll update the OP as soon as I can figure out how to treat Dragon weapons / armour. @quelmotz It helps adamant and below because weapons are now worth XP, where before they were not, and still widely considered junk. People will be willing to pay more than 1 gp for a steel scimitar because its worth a few xp. Question: Should black weapons be included? There is no such thing as a dragon bar, so why should dragon armour be included over black armour...

I don't know if you recall, but in the past you have absolutely refused to debate me, ignoring my points and then attacking my character. I "bleat on about trolling" because trolling kills threads with good discussion merit. I don't complain about people who don't troll, there have been many tip.iters that have disagreed with me on numerous occasions, but then they do they do a good job supporting their opinion. It really rips me raw to see people respond to anything about f2p with "shut up and pay noob", or anything to that affect. My "erroneous" facts about Jagex's business model come from reading MANY, MANY articles that have been posted on Tip.it, talking about WHY JAGEX IS SO SUCCESSFUL. "UK-based developer-publisher Jagex is best known for its sleeper hit MMO, the Java-based RuneScape. Though it lacks the hefty graphics and complex mechanics of other comparable products, RuneScape claims some 6 million users, due in part to the fact the game employed the free-to-play business model before many others got on board the emerging trend." -http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=17136 [hide=Or the first question from an interview with MMG]Jagex is known as a pioneer of free to-play games, but has the model itself reached the levels of popularity many had expected it to? I think we have. When we started out the whole industry was fixated on classic retail distribution, and no one really understood the free-to-play model, or even the online model. Today we see the complete opposite, with some of the biggest names in gaming wanting to do what we have done. Many companies are not quite following our own model. If we look at some of the companies that have tried to copy what we do, like Sony and Free Realms, these companies are releasing just a free demo for the membership component and monetizing component of the game. We feel that the Jagex model, and certainly RuneScape, is different to this. We have released a comprehensive free game for our fans. Just to give you a sense of scale, the free game has got over 13,500 hours of gameplay to it; we know this because that’s how much time our most-dedicated free-to-play player has spent on the game so far, and that person has still not maxed out all her skills. So people have seen that the free-to-play model works, but typically companies implement it in the wrong way, and only offer a few hours of free play. As a result of that, our competitors have not seen the success that we have, and I suspect they probably won’t. I think something we’ve been very true to throughout is that we have two individual games; a free game and a members’ game. For the most ardent fans, membership is the only option, but for those not paying we want to make sure people have access to a self-sustained game, not a demo.[/hide] http://www.develop-online.net/features/483/Interview-Jagexs-Mark-Gerhard As far as "freeloading", the ads I view in F2P support Jagex as a company, the people who know me IRL that now play as members support Jagex (you know, that word of mouth advertising), and also the friends who are members I have on runescape that continue to play for the community support jagex. I might not be paying them $6 a month out of my own pocket, but I am contributing to runescape in many ways. If Jagex really really really thought that having f2p wasn't profitable, there would be no f2p game. So, you're wrong.

You're trolling. First thing you posted - "No... he has a lot of common sense F2p is a demo.... mod mmg said otherwise to make the f2p players stay... think before you judge so subtly" Then you posted "Does f2p REALLY deserve any of those =/..... " And then "Jagex is a business not a charity they would NEVER do something like that and if they did they would see their P2P numbers dropping very fast.... theyre not stupid ya know" followed by some clarification, and then "You get your stupid brain out of your head? Members pay for ADVANTAGE the less advantages the more people will quit.... think a bit...." Everyone else probably gets the picture by now. You're trolling. You haven't made a single intelligent argument, partly because you don't post more than 2 poorly written sentences at a time. Very few of your posts have been on the original topic, and you're baiting TIF for responses. You're trolling. Stop trolling. Jagex's business model is they give away a great product for free, runescape f2p. Ad revenue partly supports F2P, but they also offer an upgrade, P2P. F2P is meant to be a game unto itself, which is why they give F2P updates. The reason Jagex would give F2P a boss monster is the exact same reason they made FoG, GOP, and have a new skill coming out that's F2P.

Yeah, that was with epic players and epic spawns. Typically getting more than 40 in a match on w61 is something of an accomplishment. The players that were getting 90+ with the glitch weren't anything special, they were bug abusers.

KBD is one of the most fought bosses on Rs..... go to any lootshare world and it will be full... stop it with ur F2P stuff its a demo and thats kinda obvious Then it would benefit P2Pers if the KBD was introduced into F2P, you'd have more worlds to hunt it. I'm not going to argue with you about how "F2p is a demo", when the CEO of Jagex disagrees with you. The only thing that could trump CEO would be Andrew himself declaring that F2P is a demo; he never has supported that position, and probably never will. If F2P was a demo, why would they deliberately take references of P2P out of F2P? Stop trolling, its gets old real fast.

Who the [bleep] was saying that? You're assuming the updates won't have self-control. The snowball effect won't happen unless Jagex lets it happen. Give F2P a few things, that's it. F2P can ask for more all they want but unless Jagex breaks in, F2P is happier than before. This is like giving a 3 year old an iPhone.... not gonna happen @jrhairychest, DemonicSushi: Quit trolling. Runescape was originally F2P. 99.9% of all players that start runescape are F2P. Mod MMG, Jagex's CEO said that F2P was not a demo. Jagex's business model is why they're so successful - enough content for F2P to last a player 15,000 hours, while having an expansion pack for bonus features. They even based FunOrb around this. These are facts. Now, the question at hand is whether making bits of outdated content F2P a good thing or not. You've already expressed the opinion "No, because I pay $5 a month to keep content out of F2P". I believe that having a boss monster would make P2P more appealing to F2Pers. It's hard to know what we're missing, the closest thing we ever had to a boss fight was with Dragon slayer. And past level 60 its not even a challenge. The content has already been developed, it would probably take 1 programmer 5 minutes to switch it over, then 2 minutes of downtime for a server update. The number of players they could gain with a boss monster in F2P could be huge. Even if they gained 1 member it would have paid for it. Also, the key is that they release P2P content sparingly. Maybe one thing a year. We're not asking for your new content, just the stuff you never use anymore. This is partly why I disagree with giving the dmed to F2P, but agree with rune arrows, yew shortbows, etc.

I have a lvl 38 account named sqelt. I used FoG to get mage xp, but I'm very competitive. When FoG was still popular, and worlds would be full, I was able to beat level 90's - 120's with hiding. At one point in time, I firmly believed that if I didn't want them to find me they wouldn't, but I still needed games to go faster. If you play the game as it was fully intended to be played you'll win. You'll also be called sad, noob, etc., but who cares? You're there to play fog.