sees_all1

The quantity supplied increases because of the common, everyday 'scaper. They look at the prices of various items, and decide what they want to do to skill, or make money. For instance: I want GP. I am willing to woodcut, mine, or fish for items; to sell on the GE for GP. I look at the prices for coal, lobsters, and yews. I notice that lobsters are the best deal (they are being manipulated?), so I fish for lobs, sell them on the GE, rinse and repeat. Two days later, I still want GP. I notice that coal is the best deal. I mine coal, sell it on the GE, rinse and repeat. This is happening everyday by millions of 'scapers. When an item on the grand exchange becomes a "good deal" for suppliers, more people supply it to make money. The supply curve doesn't change when manipulators pick the item (it does temporarily when they dump), but the quantity supplies changes. I'm not exactly clear what you're trying to say here. People don't have to be "good at economics" to realize the best way to make money. Also, if all the masses understood basic economic principals, there probably would be manipulators, or monopolies, etc.

[idiot] No, you should just pay the $5 a month so you can use your F2P skill world. [/idiot] I think a skill minimum world might serve everyone better: must have a minimum of 50 or 60 in each skill (F2P skills for F2P, all skills for P2P) to log in. That way its more applicable to each circumstance. When the new skill comes out, they could waive that requirement (for just the new skill) until 2 or 3 months afterward.

Counter argument: RWT As it is right now, its *more* difficult to get a character's EP up. If every world had a PvP area, one could find an obscure location and AFK for a few hours. Which is to say, you could pay people to fight a mock battle, die, and get a drop. The amount you receive isn't a perfect 1M, but they could guarantee drops until you get whatever value you paid for. In the current system, you have to worry about people pile jumping you... you get a kill, and they start attacking you before you get a chance to loot it. In the proposed system, people would be scarce enough that it isn't a major concern. tldr; - Easier EP, Easier RWT due to scarcity of others.

So address my 5 issues...

From an economic standpoint, Manipulators DO NOT MODIFY SUPPLY. In fact, when Manipulators pick an object, and it starts to rise in price, the quantity supplied increases. That's right, more of that item enter into the game! The fact that the GE doesn't update prices fast enough is a rant in itself, and should be separated from manipulators. enough of my mini econ-naziness. If you objectively look at what manipulators do collectively, you should thank them. The idea of "OMFG I CANT BUY ITEM X BECAUSE OF MANIPULATORS" is one for whiny brats. Imagine a young person screaming at the top of their lungs "BUT I WANT IT NOW!!!!". That's what people sound like when they rant about manipulators. "I saved up my moneys for months, until I was ready to buy that GS, only to find that clan x was manipulating them, now I can't afford it because they bought all of them out." Right... months to buy a GS, and when you're ready to buy you can't afford it. Can't you wait like, 4 days? Then, not only will it have crashed, it'll also be a good deal, saving you millions anyway! If you notice a manipulating clan has picked a certain item, messing with it over and over, you can PROFIT OFF THEM! You have to buy and sell the item out of phase... when they dump (and the item falls below equilibrium), you sweep. When they grab, you give. I've done this with silver ore... I bought 10M in silver ore when a clan was dumping, and I sold it back to a different clan when they were buying out. I made 4M by just messing with the manipulators....

There is still the problem of: 1) Getting rid of Junk 2) Free experience in crafting, prayer, construction, magic 3) Real World Trading 4) Buying items on Margin (in real life, this led to the Great Depression) 5) Hyper-Inflation due to an increase in demand Explain to me how you could prevent the following scenarios: 1) Player has 10M worth of junk in the bank. Player takes out a 10M loan, and blows it somehow (staking, PVP, etc.) Bank takes his 10M worth of junk, even though its street value is only 1M. Player consumes 10M of stuff in runescape when they should only have consumed 1M. 2) Player has 10M worth of bones in the bank. Player takes out 10M loan, and buys 10M worth of bones. Player then gets 20M worth experience in prayer, and has nothing to give back to the bank. 3) Botters / RWTers offer to buy all junk at GE value (10x more than street value). The do this by having macro'd junk of their own, and taking out loans equal to their amount of junk (GP they can freely trade away). 4) Player has 50M in items, takes out a loan to buy a shiny GS. Next day Jagex introduces the mega-god-sword, which makes all GS obsolete. GS's quickly drop to 1M street value over night, then 1M GE value, and Player, who was relatively wealthy before, loses EVERYTHING. 5) In all of the scenarios, items are leaving the game and GPs are entering the game. This means A HUGE INCREASE IN PRICE LEVELS (hyper inflation) for virtually no reason, and with no way to stabilize.

And look at the mess the real world economy is in now - it all gets back to banks lending money. Also, banks don't necessarily require collateral to loan money. Look at college loans. I can take out a loan for $40k to pay for my college expenses each and every year, with virtually no money or possessions to my name, and banks will grant it to me. I can go into $200k debt, not graduate college, and have to default. It will hurt me in the future to - there is only one of me, so that's the extent I can screw up the bank. Runescape, I can create 1000 accounts, and abandon each one of them. There's no place for loans in runescape.

I'm strongly against bank loans in runescape. The average 'scaper has no idea about how the current real world financial system works, and the implications of adding in loans to a game. Giving players the ability to arbitrarily create money will cause inflation. I'm not sure how much you intend for the banks to loan out, but anything less than a million is near meaningless, and anything more than a million per player causes extreme and arbitrary inflation. Look, starting from a new F2P account, I was able to legitly make 1 million GP within 48 hours of account creation. Making money in runescape is EASY. Besides, what's the penalty for not paying your loan back? If its item removal then that's more inflation, or a convenient way to rid an account of junk (say hello to rwt?)

I had to go with cabbage... http://www.youtube.c...h?v=VpkvdmZT1KA

F2P doesn't need any better armor. It's hard enough to hit through rune with a rune weapon already. +1 F2P Mage needs an update more than F2P Melee. Instead of worrying about Melee vs. Melee interactions, we need to worry more about Mage vs. Melee.

Oh right, I did it in about 45 minutes... my bad. :P I actually didn't mind buying 70 crafting... I bought a bunch of uncut sapphires and then cut all of them... 1350 xp every time you bank, ~200k xp/hour. Also, I had a huge cash pile (55M), and if you don't spend your GPs you're wasting them. I did mind buying 70 prayer. Its ~10x slower than sapphires, and costs ~10x more. So unfair!

9

Actually, I think we can thank the Merchants and Price Manipulators for helping stem inflation. Think about it: Do these individuals that like to sit on huge cash piles really ever spend all of their GP? Its the same as, I buy a rare, never to sell it again. There is now one less rare on the market. I'd like you all to read this article: http://www.slate.com/id/2110817/ People with large cash piles that use it to grow larger cash piles are actually good for the game in the long run.

You'll find that there's nothing to keep players playing GOP after the first altar if the teams are too imbalanced, think of it as a 10 minute penalty or a 12-16 minute penalty, +60/80 tokens. There needs to be a different system in place for losing in GOP...

I disagree. I believe it is possible to have a "balanced" combat triangle, in the fact that it's going back to its roots of being rock, paper, scissors. Rock Paper Scissors is a balanced game, yet in no way is everything equal. There is a definite rock beats scissors beats paper beats rock, but you don't get that with runescape. Here's the areas that define classes: -Maximum Hit -Cost (up front, over time) -Accuracy -Speed -Distance, range -Weapon variation -Armour variation -Combat Levels -Defense I believe the combat triangle is fundamentally flawed. It gets back to the fact that there can be "tanks". Range and Magic only have one skill to train to increase their combat level, while Melee has two. Magic against itself has a bonus to defense (I have 86 magic, and in full rune people with 70 magic splash all the time). This needs to be corrected. Either there are two components to determine accuracy and strength, or there should only be one component. Also, defense should either be universal, or there should be skills in each category to train with (Magical Resistance, Ranged Agility, Melee Agility). As far as weapons and armor go, it doesn't make too much of a difference as long as each class has similar items at similar levels. Although, armor needs to be uniform in how it benefits/hurts between classes. I believe that it will take a major rework of the combat triangle in order to make it balanced again.

Glad to see Jmods are saying "F2P is not a demo" again, and again, and again... Any player who says otherwise is just ignorant, stubborn, or stupid. I could care less about the new F2P quest, the new PvP equipment, etc.; as long as they don't fix their broken content its hard to get excited about new, likely buggy content.

You can make the drop have an alch value of whatever, and then it'll always be worth that. Also, give it the stats to make it worth more than its alch in F2P, and I think its problem solved.

There should be less of the "kill monster x" styled achievements due to the rarity of those monsters. I also believe other skills, such as woodcutting, mining, and smithing should be used. I.E. obtain charcoal from a burnt tree (easy), mine adamantite ore from the hobgoblin? mine (medium), smith a rune scimitar at some anvil (hard). Catch anchovies, Cook an anchovie pizza, etc. (easy, medium respectively).

10m is a lot. :shock: What's the max right now? 36k rune scimmies from C. Soldiers? Lol 3.6 mil as a bonus drop from PKing (corrupt dragon b-ax), with a probability of around 1 in 1000.

Level 75 runecrafting (actually, started with <13.8k until 76) Crafted 1k ess into 7545 airs 3760 runes first 500 3785 runes second 500 Crafted 1k ess into 4576 water runes 2298 runes first 500 2278 runes second 500 Will do lvl 76 after I get 20k gop tokens :P

I suppose this thread might do alot better if I don't offer the position that "The triangle is not flawed", and instead focused on what it would take to fix it. I would prefer if this thread was not focused on F2P, as giving F2P rune arrows would not fix P2P's imbalances (or anything along that line of thought.) I'd like about 2 or 3 more posts before I'll post my position... and it'll be a long post. :D

I think Jagex is updating GOP right now - the last few games I've played, any extra ess that was not picked up spawns at the portal. Maybe they're fixing it!?!!?

How is the combat triangle flawed? What can Jagex do to fix it? Are the fixes a major reworking of all the skills, or a few stat tweaks? What's the bare minimum that Jagex can get away with to fix it? If its not flawed, what can Jagex do in future updates to maintain the balance? What sets runescape apart from other games with combat that lack balance? I'll post my thoughts later.

Its a F2P spellbook in the way that the modern spellbook is a F2P spellbook, or that the rewards from FoG/GOP are F2P. If it only had F2P stuff, then it would likely benefit members very very little, or be crazy overpowered for F2P, which means that its that much less likely to be developed.

I think I'm going to compile a list of suggestions for GOP, and then post them in this forum, and on the RSOF. Anyhow, its ridiculous how buggy this content STILL is, even after being more than a year old.