das

What kinda new forums? Bit off the subject. wasn't ready to hit submit on this one yet. xD Said like these forums will be swept and all be new and that. Nope, don't see why we would wipe the forums. I posted this in the wrong forum though. :lol: (Too many tabs)

What kinda new forums? Bit off the subject. wasn't ready to hit submit on this one yet. xD

Ask them here.

Amen, I know tons of higher leveled skillers are sitting on TONS of potions, runes and other finished products that they dont think it's worth selling for the current price

Changed topic title to be less accustory. if these clan chats are getting locked. looks like jagex is pissed. I wish they would make a front page topic newsfeed if they do

No proof to say they didnt though either. If his explanation is correct, I dont see why everyone wouldn't be mad that older lower offers get met before newer higher offers.

I'd rather them be honest about how the GE works and give trade freedoms to higher level accounts. Honestly why would I waste my 8 year old account to do something dumb? I should of earned free trade.

Yeah, I still mourn the loss of free trade. I think it can be :P So lets say......Irits and eye of newts are being controlled, and I have enough money in my bank to buy 99 herb with irits. So I do. But I get Deployed, can't afford the vials or 2nds and try to make them I deserve to be treated the same because I hoarded and mass bought? Sure hope not. What if I change my mind and think herblore sucks and sell them? or what if I buy irits thinking 'man, irits are in style, i can make cash with these" unbeknownst to me - an entire clan is making a false demand - now I get banned with them? is that fair? What if he has bad timing and picks the same thing as the clan out of coincidence? Limps are logical to merchant

how will players report people in a faceless economy? How will they gain entry to very guarded private forums, that if it was outlawed, people would use fake names on probably. How would a trade history differ from an independent merchant? Big Brother is not an economist. :lol:

Clans survived for years with private forums and applications. They are idiots who deserved what they got if they did everything in a clan chat with easy entry.

Why haven't they done that already? But if they do How can they prove you are with someone and not a solo merchant?

Oprahs net worth is 2.7 billion Nike has a US$ 18.627 billion revenue and 12 billion in assets she can't afford them all, she can't afford my main one. Bad example. Asides, I can always ebay a pair of shoes, or maybe I hoard shoes ( i actually have like 6-8 pairs of never worn shoes under my bed) Sure oprah could go into it with other friends, but then thats risky, one friend could undersell the other, and to buy every shoe/boot/sandle manufacture would be VERY expensive. The distribution of wealth is quite different in real life than it is in runescape. while indivduals are rich, companies are ungodly rich. What proof do you have that it wasn't? You can't prove it wrong either, but many many voices say the limps were changed. If the GE honestly works like that, It's a flawed system beyond belief , Money is purchasing power. Mod Mat flirts around the issue but never gives a straight answer. Give me a straight answer and not "what if " for me to consider. Yeah, and here almost every one of those charges 2.53-2.56 in gas. 3 cent difference based on location perhaps. Have you ever seen one of those companies undercut the other by 20 cents a gallon? 50? a whole dollar? In many parts of the southeast, Verizon (Frontier now) Owns EVERY phoneline in the area. Sure you can get dsl where I live from 3 now 2 different companies, but those companies just resale it through verizon. I know they do, because I work with one and we bought out the other because they couldn't afford to pay verizon. Same applies to most of the southeast USA. Verizon/AT&T and bell south just wholesale the lines to other companies to resale their service.

It's the summer, I wear Sandles, and Nike can produce more shoes. Oprahs money supply isn't unlimited, and sooner or later her empire will crumble. In the meantime I can make do with what I got or buy a substitute. magzar - you seem to gloss over the fact that the limp price changed at an odd time of the day. Jagex had to of intervened and I would be shocked if someone didn't have a GE feed that updates "live". Explain why that price changed no other major item did? Again, from the RSOF post, the limp supply was very low, some of these guys struggled to buy any on MAX. 3 Limps from 4 patches every 15 minutes is 12 limps per 15 minutes or 48 an hour. Not bad considering one limp buys your seed price and it's a limited good. American Gasoline, phone service (landline) and internet often fall into the monopoly category. So do most other utilities especially in the south of america. It's a flaw yes, but the economy would be very stale without it. It would be interesting to know the amount of limps collected and sold. Funny you mention addy ++ arrows, I found like 13 on the ground and haven't been able to sell them on min for 2+ months even though I update it daily and the price rises. Lol

When a clan buys out limpwurts the herblorists and the people who use them have to pay more for their stuff because of unnatural demand. Now when the clans dump the people who collect the limpwurts can't sell them even for min and they lose money they could have had if they would have left the item alone. They cant grow them or gather them by slaying hobgoblins and increase the supply? Asides, if they did that, they might profit much more than paying 1k+ per second. I mean, these things went from what...1k to 1.2k? in days? weeks? cant be a HUGE supply of them for that small of an increase over a long period of time. And the GE does have buying limits. If you have limits and even they cant buy (As evidence from the RSOF thread) The supply is VERY low. Are people not capable of deciding what an item is worth to sell to them and worth buying to them?

Can anyone prove it has a negative effect on the economy?

albeit wrong, it's a side effect of not having a free market. People will always try to make money, and as runescape becomes more controlling on how you can do so, people will get more desperate. i camped abyssals for 2 months to get charms for 80 summoning. In that time I accumulated a slew of whips and made a NICE stack of change. But you know, it sucked, it burnt me out (i got 80 summoning heh) and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. so I can understand why it's done. especially if you got the cash to do it. Raven, I agree with you 100% .

n64jive - I think me, you and fook all have very similar views, I hate to say this, but I think it's coming down to people who have taken uni level economics or have played since classic and seen manipulation occur and be praised for it. (Bluerose was a god in her time and you played classic yourself did you not? ) versus people who feel it's bad because they rely on others for every item they need and want something NOW. I've noticed too few disagreements in general as of late, it's nice to have one again and be a part of one. This board needed some spice. If we are going to discuss the RSOF thread, I can sum it up rather simple The Pathetic merchants are acting like the spoiled little brats who whine they exist, and Mod Mat K's actions to me as a manager of a customer support line for an ISP and a forum admin, strike me as dubious and somewhat bordering on unprofessional. Edit: She limited items made or at least sold, and at times she did stop making items, so the demand would rise. 99 smithing then was bloody damn hard and took an act of god, it took a long time for there to be 2 more 99 smiths. Gormis and Krest, Krest who got stat reduced for cheating.

The problem is in the knowledge base Jagex never clearly defines manipulation. Yes i'm being thick on purpose here but right now, I have some items in my bank and feel I could affect the price at least for a day, by liquidating some of my assets. Am I not manipulating. It's a stretch, but we need good communication about the way the GE works, no one really knows for certain and it is a faceless market. I do believe fook has a point, we have no clue of knowing the resources gathered and sold vs gathered and kept. I'd really love to know if all of these items are playered created, especially on the raw materials or crap people collect like tenderboxes, do people honestly think noobs or anyone buys tinderboxes and banks and sells them =\ ? Manipulation could mean when people tried to drive the prices up on pickaxe handles - they are taking advantage of people by tricking them into believing an item will be rare and limited in the future. Buying up an item especially a raw material that is a useful asset, is perfectly fine to me. The prices of most raw materials suck. I hate the current prices . you run at a loss on quite a few skills training the best ways, and a larger loss than you used too, but I feel it's more of a general laziness of players gathering items than manipulation. Herbal seconds skyrocketed for the most part when the GE came out because people who didnt put up with buying had an easy way to buy unlimited goods. They may make an item unbuyable, but again thats a fault with the system, if you want it bad enough, you should be able to pay more than everyone else. The power of the GP was greatly weakened with price floors and these guys cause the only real trends in the market. I dont think you can argue price manipulation without considering the fact the system is flawed to a point to where removing price manipulation won't help "Fix" the economy. i'd counterargue it is the main economic catalyst. Edit: So MMG thinks it's a problem, thats great, the entire GE is a bloody problem.

Yeah fook you hit the nail on the head. Bluerose'conomics really are what I'm used too. We all know people like Skone751, Yaurrada6, Pugxsi and Tks had money (Cant forget mctavish too ;) ) But these people largely got money by selling blueroses products - something she never really took the time to do. (I think Yaur bought from pugs actually ) The classic economy for ages was very pyramid based. Rune smiths sold to "Dealers" in a nutshell who often sold to other traders. Now you got lots of cliques buying an item and reselling it. Even Chewy shoe made most if not all of his money controlling or greatly influencing the raw materials/finished product market.. Even Skone made most of his money doing things like coal and iron among other raw materials. The GE should never be an "instant" market because the price floors may or may not reflect the price someone is willing to sell an item for. I know I won't sell my rune larges until I can get at least 60k+ for them. Will it ever happen? Nope, but in the mean time I dont care if I have one - or 500. I'm not selling them as I dont need the money from them. While I may be an exception, I know plenty of people in the same boat as me.

Moreover, in the ge, to put up an offer, you do need to have the money in your inventory before the offer can be made. As such, the price offers will ultimately be the same, assuming that both put in their offers for mid price. Going by the example of a medium offer thats sit for 2 weeks gets priority over a high offer for 1 second. If someone dumps it for min, it should go for that max offer.

In your example, I dont see how it would of done more harm than good. To train herblore - you bought herbs and seconds and probably made potions at a loss - removing GP from a game that in all honesty, needs more moneysinks. You bettered yourself - you have higher skills and your character is "better" then he was. Your character depending on how many levels you gained, has more of a shot to produce money and profit at various times in the future You made finished products that one day can be bought and sold by players who need them. I guess the main difference is I grew up in an era in classic and rs2 with no centralized economy, you had to be aggressive in the forums or in busy worlds like world 2. My game taught work and self sufficiency, and the GE feels like McDonalds, you go order and get your food/items quick. So these guys really don't affect me. Self Sufficiency for the win! As for first come first serve? The person with more money should always get priority over the person with less. In classic money was a hell of a lot harder then than now and people were used to working hard to save for an item. Not wanting to "Get in range" to get in line for an intem. If you do it based on a line system, money has became a hell of a lot more worthless because all it serves is a means to get in line to buy, not direct raw purchasing power.

I forgot that I don't "need" super restores at any God Wars except Bandos. And yes, God Wars is a "need" place for some. Some people do boss fights all the time. Not everyone plays the same way you do, and in return, not everyone has the same "needs" as you. The difficulty in quantifying runescape is that yes, some people need items for one event whereas a kid buying an item to do another is not a need. However people seem to it's control and risk free, it's far from it Overall, Finshed goods are dangerous to try to control, especially things like potions or let's say runes. Many people are probably sitting on millions and hundreds of thousands of runes and potions that they dont feel they should sell for the GE price range, an un-natural manipulation of them could cause people to dump the items in bulk. I dont really follow the potions trend, i'm sitting on a near liftime supply and wont ever need to sell mine to make ends meet, but I'd be surprised if people tried to control the potion market. Stuff like barrows and higher end armor (GWD) is more easy to control because it cannot be created, it must be killed for, which means in most likelyhood, no one is sitting on hundreds sets of varrock, bandos or the like. Rune Armor is very disposable, I know the big clans go through 50+ sets like candy in a few days sometimes, so it's going to be hard to maniup an item like rune because retired pkers like me, have 100+ sets they would dump for the right price but might hold incase they need them ;) Raw Materials are tricky, people mine and fish and the sort for money, so it's hard to control those. Never know what piles people are sitting on. Secondaries would be the most interesting. Most have to be gathered , farmed , and that can be numbingly slow (wines of zammy - eww) , so while they can, time is money so people like to buy them, since they cant be mass created/gathered for the most part, I can see where this has less risk. First come first serve does bother me. If i'm willing to spend more, I should get it before the kid who spends less. Especially if it's a limited good.

No shame in having a fun time arguing. Life isn't fun if you read 900030303 posts of "LOL I WUB MOD MAT K" Listen to this man. The truth he speaks. Thanks. :-D You are right though, Was grasping for straws with the easter egg one :P. But saw a moment of opportunity for some fun so I went for it. I will say if he did edit that topic, as someone who runs a forum, if one of my moderators changed a topic to mock the posters regardless of what they were upset over, i'd be speaking with that mod in the morning.

No shame in having a fun time arguing. Life isn't fun if you read 900030303 posts of "LOL I WUB MOD MAT K"

It's a game with a working and real economic system. Personally yes, any items that are higher up on the foodchain to level, such as seeds or herbs are a luxury because other herbs do exist, now if you *need* to level herblore for say a quest, and every herb you can use from guam to say irit, is sold out and thats all you can use, yes it's a need then. Personally I myself am sitting on a large pile of irit and avantoe seeds I bought a long time ago (over a year) for 40-60 GP per which is nice. The experience is still good enough that it works at a reasonable rate. Now 2nd's are a different animal altogether, If you are a level 3 skiller, and can't fight hobgoblins for limps, I suppose you have a need if you have a ton of kwaurm, but you can grow them. If those are gone, then yes it's a need else you can always suit up and go kill for them and skip, it's what I did the last 500 or so limps I needed. Hot items like snapdragons and gold ore (is that still the fastest smithing xp?) are bad to manipulate because everyday average joes can really screw up your manipulation. Before the GE. i Did gold ore from 90-99 smithing. It grew hard to buy at 500, so I bought for 550, for those last few levels, I paid well above price at 600 per ore to get it when I wanted it - instantly. I dont have that luxury anymore so thats a big reason why I am not a fan of the GE. I know a user with over three hundred and fifty easter eggs. He bought them as a collection, but we all know enough one doesn't exist for every player, so is he a manipulator? I'm quite confident he could damage the egg market and "Manipulate" if he sold more, I know for a fact his buying habits in classic caused the prices to rise quickly, manipulating the market Socially, thats cool because he collects rare items. But it's not cool for a group of 20 or 100 to log in and say "Today let's buy...Red Spider eggs" and they buy them for 3 days, an item you can pick up off the ground in multiple locations on 100+ servers. causing the price to rise, they become bad? The GE has serious flaws and should be in an auction type format where people can show true demand and supply in real time, not price cap bull that doesn't work. It's alot more difficult to manipulate an auction based system over a capped floor economy. I personally think it's highly ironic that when the GE came out I know me and some friends were able to buy over 100k+ of multiple type of burnt food products in a periods time. For me to hit the max burnt shrimp allotment daily, makes me think all of the goods are not player made and we have alot worse problems going on than just mean merchanting clans ;)