bedman

I'm getting pretty frustrated. I did all I could to explain you, but apperantly, you are lacking the brains to understand me., or there is a serious misconception. Yes, you invest 8216k to make an air orb, buying the battle staff from Zaff, and alching it. Yes, you get 9300 back. HOWEVER, BY DECIDING NOT TO SELL THE (RAW) BATTLE STAVES, YOU ARE LOOSING 1300 GP! THIS NETS YOU A LOSS OF AROUND 300 GP PER BATTLESTAFF MADE. Compare it to a player who also buy battle staves from Zaff, but decided to sell them. The difference between you and the player will be as followed: You: 137 xp, 9300 return (of the investment of 7k + 993 + 223) Him: no xp, 9600 return (of the investment of 7k + 993 + 223) (this guy just sells everything back to the GE (thus 8295 + 223 + 993), so actually, he shouldnt have bought the nature rune and the orb). So the only difference between him, and you is You get 137 xp He gets 300 gp more than you (but no xp) (you both made the same investments) So, can we conclude you have to pay 300 gp for 137 crafting xp, since deciding NOT TO GET THE CRAFTING XP GIVES YOU 300 GP MORE? If this doesnt sound logic to you, I'm gonna go crazy. Just one more example to make it 100% clear: You buy a raw lobster for 300gp. You cook it, and you sell the cooked one for 250 gp. He buys a raw lobster for 300 gp. He sells it back for 300 gp. Difference You get 120 cooking xp. He gets 50 gp more than you. (you both made the same investments). So, you pay 50 gp for 120 cooking xp. See the analogon with the staves? Forget Zaff just for a second. He's an external money source, a different action. I mean, I'm not claiming I'm cooking for free, cause Zaff nets me enough profit per day to cook 1200 lobbies and break even in total, do I? The cooking is costing me money, Zaff is giving me money. Total balance = break even. ps: sorry for caps lock, I got a bit frustrated.

Lol, if you slay his way, you will actually make a loss before 83-85-90 slayer (not sure when it shifts).

Dfs trash rofl? :lol: It's the best defensive shield in the game and has been one of the most stable pieces of equipment out there. Also ring of wealth is the ring to you zerker is overpriced junk for 1 extra hit and warrior well it just can not add up to the ownage of an extra chance at a good drop. It's been proven rune defender gives higher xp rates, defence isn't really needed in majority of slayer tasks. For drag tasks it's a great thing to have, but who wants to fork over 15m just to have an easier time dragon slaying when it's already so easy? Unless the author does GWD regurarly, steering away from DFS would be a good idea. Also, beserker is nice for tasks that don't have good drops (abby demons, for example), much better investment then bandos. Warrior is just... junk. +4 slash bonus? Please. I'd go with: Bandos Tasset/Plate (Depends on your defence level, I'd only get this if your 85+ def). Beserker ring. Fury. Possibly invest in trying to get a fire cape. D boots Invest in getting the best RFD gloves you can, if you haven't already. Karil top/bottom Invest in getting karmja gloves if you're using duradel 200+ super sets and prayer potions 2k Pineapple pizzas Guthans (so you can use combat familiars) Leaf-Bladed sword if you plan on doing mith dragon tasks Zammy spear OR Saradomin sword for waterfiends Cannon + CBalls (As many as you can afford to get) That should have you generously set for slayer. See one of the slayer guides in the general guides forum for good lists of things to block and skip. I've currently got this blocked at duradel: Steel drags, iron drags, Hellhounds, kalphites. The last 2 are more personal preference. Listen to him. Only thing I disagree with is warrior ring. I think it's probably just as good as berserker, but cheaper. (no evidence, but the fact that +4 slash compared to total slash bonus is around +4 str compared to total str bonus, so it all comes down to wether you prefer slighly higher accuracy or a max hit of 1 higher). Also, dfs > defender: hell no. We're not on GWD, you dont need that much defence. If you decide to piety your tasks: dont get bandos (v skirt + prossy top). If you dont decide to piety: get bandos.

Just turn every "potential" into "actual". You are actually spending that "potential" money by crafting. I just called it "potential", since you could potentially get it, if you decided to sell your raw materials. Anyway. back on topic: Crafting air battle staves is a good way to craft. You pay 8400 per staff, and 1k per orb, so you loose 300 gp for 137 xp. Downsides: Trade limit: can only buy 600 a day (+ 64 from zaff). Now, something that actually has NOTHING to do with it (however, comes in handy): Buy 64 battlestaves from zaff each day. It is good profit (1.4k per staff), and cuts the cost of your crafting expenses. It *happens* to be that you are also buying battlestaves in the GE, so in stead of selling, you might as well use them yourself. pretty handy huh! (note how I'm trying to split the two actions: the buying of b staves, and the crafting).

I bought bandos chest and tassets a while ago, 14m for both I think it was. Raised my max hit by 1, I was a little disappointed until i remembered I got more defense with that higher hit. Looks pretty sweet too. :thumbup: Serious duelers (if there are any left?) might use the new max hit stuff. Doubtful they would want it to just show off.. Not likely. Aside from the new PVP equipment, torags is FAR better for PVP then bandos. Occassionally 1 higher hit or +60 defence? Not even a contest. You aren't right on that one. I can miss 60 defense easily. Not in pvp.

Also that is only a profit of 1.4k a mere 450 more than actually crafting and alching the battlestaff. I think anyone that sells them that does not have 99 crafting is a moron. Crafting is an expensive skill and any experience that is free much less MAKES a profit is well worth it. That xp isnt free! Buying the staves yourself at Zaff, or buying them in the GE doesnt make any difference! When you decide to attach an orb you are changing 8400 + 100 gp into 9100 gp, which is A LOSS. Please try to see every action on its own 1) buying from zaff: profit. 2) attaching orbs (xp + loss). Btw, I got 90 crafting myself through battlestaves. I bought dayly at zaff, and in the GE. I bought my battlestaves at 8100-8300 each in the GE, water orbs at 660 each, and later (when water orbs got more expensive) air orbs for 975 each. In the case of water orbs, I did make profit. In the case of air orbs I didnt, but buying from zaff daily made up for that (however, I did loose money in the actual crafting, see what I'm saying. Now however, I got kind of bored with it, and I'm just selling my staves daily in the GE. I feel it's a bit of waste, cause it's hard to get them in large amounts due to the trade limit, but hey, why should I force myself to do a skill I find boring? I've got 90 crafting, I can make anything I want.

You are absolutly right, you get no benefit from selling the staves to the GE, but money, and since for you skills > money, you should craft them. HOWEVER, dont go around, claiming you make proft crafting battle staves cause YOU DONT! I repeat, without caps, you dont. Like compfreak has said, battle staves are worth 8400 each. So by adding orbs to the staves, and not selling them, you are essentially devaluating your battles staves (from 8400 + 1000 to 9100). On the other hand, this is much better gp loss / xp than d hides, so it is the best way to craft IMO. About the cooking: as I expected: You still lost cash cooking like everyone else... (though, I think the loss of raw swordfish to cooked swordfish / xp is better than that of lobbies, and especially for tuna, so you didnt loose as much as the lobby cookers). However, to make it easier for yourself, you managed your kingdom in the mean time, which yielded you a bigger profit than you lost by cooking, so it nets you profit, which makes you (and me too) happy. Just dont forget where the actual profit comes from, yes, thats your kingdom, not the converting of raw to cooked. While I dont have any serious problems with that, I DO have problems with people who claim they "farm trees for free". They go like this: "I get my seeds from my kingdom, I burn the maples which is good fm xp, and the seeds are free". Let's look at it, shall we 1) It has been proven (with seeds and nests taking into account) that fish and flax are the best ways to invest your money. (when maples were 100 each, maples were better of course, so yes, this depends on GE prices). By choosing maples, you are loosing money. (Ie: you keep more money if you put your workers on flax and fish, sell the flax and fish, and buy the seeds you want). 2) You didnt get those maples for free either. Heck, you even paid 56 each, while you can get them for 37 each on the GE. Thus, not taking seeds into calculation, you are even making a loss. 3) You didnt get your farming xp for free. First of all, you lost potential money by choosing maples (see nr 1), secondly, by using those seeds, you lost money too (you could have sold them). Conclusion: With tree farming, you are NEVER farming for free. You are paying right what the GE price is. You pay even more if you decide to get the seeds yourself through your kingdom! (ironically, huh). About us worrying to much about profit: We just like to use our money the most efficient way. I dont see any problems in that. In fact, the thing I love the most about this game, is optimizing training methods (minimal loss, maximal xp).

@ballr: b staves loose you money (the actual crafting) but WAY LESS than dhide crafting. @kietaro: May is ask you which smart ways you used to lvl cooking and fletching? From what you said, I understood that you lvled it like everyone else, but you used OTHER stuff to reduce the costs. That's not smart fletching/cooking, that's doing other things smartly. Dont think you are firemaking for free if you got the maples from your kingdom. You are loosing a lot of profit cause you didnt put money on fish. Same goes for putting your workers on herbs. It's been proven fish and flax is the best. So if you cooked by cooking the swordfishes from your kingdom and made profit, that's not cause of the cooking, that's cause of the kingdom. You are loosing just as much as someone who buys his swordies off the GE. On the other hand, the things you advice are a very good thing to do. I do most of them too.

varrock 3 is worth it unless your going to need the smithing requirement but 64 compared to 32 is a lot I am pretty sure I have all the requirements except 67 crafting which is needed to make the air battle staff. I could do that rather quickly though with a couple hundred green d'hide bodies(718 to be exact). I don't mind as from what I hear there is profit to be made with battle staffs. There is no profit in battlestaves. There is only profit in buying those staves from zaff. The actual crafting nets you a loss at current prices. There were times, when water orbs were 660 each, you could make proits, pretty huge profits, tbh. With most orbs at 1k each, you dont even break even with the actual crafting.

you are. Dont play it if you dont like it. Apperently, you have insufficient IQ to play it.

smart = buy when they are low -.-

Do diamond bolt enchanting for magic. Up to 150k an hour if you are a really fast clicker. Can combin this with pc too. You can make profit if you buy supplies smart.

I think that's about the same rate that I got from Granite mining. Do you know how many rocks you collected? If not, perhaps this will help: I went to the Coal mines and got about 120 coal. The tool is at 19%. The mining level may have a bearing too; mine's 74 right now. Anyway, the differential now is that 19%/100% = x/120. In summation, the tool will last another 22 ores before it gives out completely; I'll test that later to determine it. If that theory holds up, it drained .81% of its power from one ore. I'm thinking also that the experience from the object may have to do with how fast it degrades. .6% for a single steel bar seems like a lot, which means it goes down 3% per plate, and lasts only 16 plates. Each steel bar is between 17.5 (raw bar) and 55 (smelt+smith) experience. I'll need to know which to determine how fast it'll degrade on a Steel scale, and from that, it's simple to figure out how fast the proto-tool *may* degrade. I'm guessing that this confirms the experience->degradation theory. [EDIT] Alright, so I found some more stuff out about these things. According to the post from the RSOF, 15-16-84-58083232, each tool has a *set* experience amount. In effect, it doesn't matter what you use or harvest, or what your level is, the tool lasts only until you hit that max experience cap. Note that the values are from the normal experience values. [Thanks to Samoht Gnir, Djmoody and Sport 0 for this.] Hammer 32,063 Hatchet 9,450 or 18,900 Pickaxe 7,140 Harpoon 13,750 Needle 21,500 Fletching is 46,875 I can practically vouch for the data here since it matches up with a test of mine -- Mining in particular. The proto-tool *will* last 142 coal. A hammer lasted me more than 500 addy bars, which is over 60k xp, not 32k.

For crafting: buy staves from zaff everyday, and have GE-offers in all the time. (so you can buy 100 every 4 hours, or 600 a day). With air bstaves this comes to nearly 100k crafting xp a day, with half an hour work, and you break even. (if you buy orbs smartly). I got 80-90 crafting this way and I actually made profit (i had bought water orbs at 660 each, when they had crashed). It's not the way to go if you powerlvl, but it's a steady xp income per day and doesnt take long (the actual crafting of the staves is 230k xp an hour). 100k xp a day * 130 = 13m xp in less than 5 months. (and around 60 hours work). For herblore: You could try cleaning herbs. I heard it's up to 70k xp an hour, and can make you up to 500k profit an hour. It's very intentisve though. 70k xp an hour *200 = 14m xp. So less than 200 hours of very intensive work. You could alternate it with "normal" herblore to make it more bearable. So yes, it is possible to get it within six months. I

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Its just getting experienced with luring. Dont pray on the first three. Stop praying after the dag trap and if you have a distance between you and the rock lobs. You should use 3-6 ppots per lure when you get used to it.

Cant you get enough pts for multiple tools per game?

Get your hunting lvl up and do you first lvls with tears of guthix and penguins, .... I only started using charms at lvl 40 and it saved me a lot of charms. I mean 17 xp per gold charm! Wait till you are lvl 52 with gold charms. Use greens on macaws and crimsons on honeycomb things, and later pyrelords. Save your blues to at least 57.

Wow, seems like this update will actually be a game changing update. Everyone should do sc now. I've got a question though. I know hats are better to buy since its cheaper, and all items last as long. However, once you have the item, doesnt it cost the same (being 20 reward pts) to charge it up again. If this is true, then I dont see why you should get so many hats.

Lol, it actually is, if you dont factor in the time to gather the tools (which is a fun passtime anyway). Smithing addy arrowtips atm is like 150-50gp loss per 124 (or so) xp. With plates, the money loss is bigger, but you can get 300k xp an hour :o.

The more pieces you have, the longer the bonus lasts. I got 80k+ magic xp with my full set of mage robes, and it took about 53% off. So that's maybe 150-170k xp if you use the full set. I got that 80k xp in about 45minutes, by the way. I was using fire wave on black demons. I think you are able to get the xp bonus without the weapon, but it will last for a shorter amount of time. I'm not sure about this though, I'd appreciate if someone tested it. I'll try and get to it later, myself. If you use a set, it will last as long as the sum of all the pieces + bonus time cause of the set. That's what the knowlegde base says. According to this, It might be better to just use ahrim + staff for increased accuracy at the cost of a bit faster degrading. I recommend not getting the staves, since you would need all the runes needed to cast a spell, including elemental ones. Okay, you got me there :-). Hat might be the best choice then. Btw, I'm using my sacred clay hammer on addy bars. They give double the xp now, and one hammer lasts 515 bars. I heard the lasting time is xp based, so with mith bars theyll last longer I guess. Also, for plate makers, the xp is double too. Not like + 30 xp per item smithed, like before. Making addy plates is now 300k xp/h, not counting the time to get the hammers :o.

The more pieces you have, the longer the bonus lasts. I got 80k+ magic xp with my full set of mage robes, and it took about 53% off. So that's maybe 150-170k xp if you use the full set. I got that 80k xp in about 45minutes, by the way. I was using fire wave on black demons. I think you are able to get the xp bonus without the weapon, but it will last for a shorter amount of time. I'm not sure about this though, I'd appreciate if someone tested it. I'll try and get to it later, myself. If you use a set, it will last as long as the sum of all the pieces + bonus time cause of the set. That's what the knowlegde base says. According to this, It might be better to just use ahrim + staff for increased accuracy at the cost of a bit faster degrading.

It is indeed around 310k less more for using red chins, and 60k xp more, like alcoolj said. However, when I caclulated it I came out that you need to spend 2.4M extra on red chins for every 3 hours you save. So if you make more than 800k an hour, go for red chins for sure. If not, there's still the choice. (otherwise, everyone *should* do aviansies, lol).

I'd say start chinning at 85 or 90 ranged. Grey chins are up to 270k xp an hour, red chins up to 325k xp an hour (that's at 95 ranged though). 90-99 with grey chins is roughly 30 hours (probably a bit more) and it will cost you around 16M. (including PPots). Sol alcoolj advice was helpfull, yet not very accurate. (it's less time and less money than he claims).

A picture is good to explain difficult things. However, several pictures, only diferring in one item (the weapon) is a bit overkill IMO. I'd just make a basic picture and add something like: "you can substitute the weapon by weapon x and weapon y if you can't afford it, etc..." . But okay, I'll leave it at that. Great guide anyways, just a little annoyance I had.