xpx

It is deemed unsuitable by some people who do not plan on 200m in all skills, and we haven't seen any of the contenders actively training the skill since horn release, so the jury is still very much out on this subject, thus why it is being discussed. I bet if everyone in the top 15 decided to start training agility now, atleast half would use horn for it.

Would you maintain your law rune bind on a F2P world (assuming you had one)? If not, then that would probably take away any time you saved from weaker monsters. Laws literally speed up C1s by twenty or thirty minutes. Yes you do and why wouldn't you? You only ever need one person with laws and i'd say we have more than enough laws for it to be enough to supply dgs for those who do c1's(as c2's are obviously more efficient overall). Besides, if you go to 3bo for c1's, they'll all have laws, so no worries.

Isn't Losing Gnomes the guy who hates people with a high total in his dungeons? :lol: Oh, wait, he is also the mad guy :mad: On a completely irrelevant note on the above pictures, dat 0xpx0 [bleep] just keeps logging in! :ohnoes: Final, that is a good area to look into as i've also noticed f2p c1's being very fast. And before people say no binds, helllllo baxe+rapier(which is basically all you'll ever need).

The question with efficiency is if it's possible to gain an average of over 72k agility xp an hour(and possibly 100k), not if someone has or will do it- if it's possible on a small scale, it is possible on a large scale, thus applicable for 200m agility. Agility is a MAJOR grind, and as horn reduces the time actually training agility twofold it's DEFINITELY efficient to use the horn(it most definitely saves time too), whether someone will do it is basically irrelevant, particularly when projecting how many hours 200m in all skills will take. You can question if people have the right mindset to do this, but you can't question the method being faster than conventional agility, and that's the bottom line. The 200m all skills race isn't really about efficiency- it's not a sprint, rather a marathon, and we have seen time and again efficiency fail for this goal. Does not being efficiency increase the theoretical time for 200m? ofcource not.

While I do agree with Jeb on this, him having 335m exp doesn't automatically make him correct. I'm going to have to agree with K4ylan, sorry. My Agility would certainly add weight to my arguments, but it doesn't necessarily mean I'm correct. @xpx As the Agility Xp/hr increases, the BA horn becomes a less viable option. Also, I've already explained multiple times that it very much is possible to do Agility straight with the horn and that it isn't required to do it with breaks if you wish to use the horn. Please stop assuming otherwise. I very much doubt anyone can consistently manage that if you play 10+ hours a day, and trying to do that would likely slow down the average xp. It would be much easier to have a selection of ~20 players who all need to use the horn consistently, too, to team up every once-in-a-while to fill the full horn, thus why it's considered the primary method.

With the way Jebrim trains agility, he can't be treated as as expert on this matter. He doesn't train efficiently, and for this method to work, your solo purpose in runescape can't be agility, which is why he can't really speak for himself on this matter. If the only reasons for this to not work are psychological, it can still be treated as the best method of training agility, and as said, i'm in the opinion that many of the top people are either waiting for agility to be made 'better'(which is inevitable), not planning to grind the way agility is now or maybe just going to effigy it. Likewise to agility, the top players don't actively train rc either(for similar reasons).

Nobody is likely doing it as they see agility as a rubbish skill and are waiting or it to be nerfed further(just like suomi got killed somewhat by the horn update). Effigies might also be better than horn, too. Pro teams are not necessary. You need a good healer and defender, but apart from that, for waves 1-5/6, the two attackers and collector can be halfwits and not slow the team down. I don't think it's realistic to build your life around the lives of others, and really, that is in no way necessary.

Yeah, we really do have problems with the attitude of some members... :rolleyes:

Some people are clearly overestimating the human element- if people do it for purely selfish reasons and it works for one minigame(dungeoneering), it will also work for BA, not to mention, BA is much easier than dungeoneering(where people do 2-4 hour rows) as only 2 people need to be focused, basically. Btw, for charging the horn, you don't want to do full waves, rather only 1-5 or 1-6 and reset. Nothing lost if someone leaves early(and it's not too hard to have a backup). Getting people for BA really isn't as hard as many say it is, particularly if you are organized.

Suomi got 200m agility 03/10, horn was released 19/01/10. Care to point out where i'm going wrong. Jebrim, there are LOADS of people who have got 99 with horn. The fact that agility is a VERY unpopular skill and extremely few plan on tens of million experience over 99 is in no way proof that this doesn't work. I guess we'll see when someone in the top 15 starts training agility(which they should actually do with effigies, as that is even more efficient, but w/e).

The bolded part is really where you are going wrong. When your horn is empty and you don't have a team, it doesn't disallow you to do anything OTHER than agility, and agility is only one of the 25 skills in runescape. As said, with one full fill per week, you could do agility in 3 years, and managing to get 5 people together for 4 hours a week is VERY easy, particularly for the best players of the game. As also said, agility is a very unpopular skill, and none of the active top 15 has actively trained agility yet, but when they will, it's highly likely they will use horn(or effigies, as i will). Also, BA is much simpler than many would think. You basically only need 2 decent people and the other 3 can afk, still managing full fill in 4,5 hours.

That just speaks for the popularity of the skill, not that this doesn't or wouldn't work. People hate agility and very rarely train it over 99, and of those who do train over 99, only those who aren't 100% deadset on training agility can manage this strategy, namely people going for 200m all skills, and of those, not many have gotten around to do agility yet(most only bother with easier skills). I think it's pretty preposterous to question if using the horn is worth it- if a decent team can fill the horn in 4-4,5 hours and it lasts for 8,5-9 hours of training, it's clearly worth it. Also, teams who fill horn would generally want to do a full fill in one run, so that's why this would be a good strategy. It's also much easier to manage this strategy if you have alot of friends who need to do BA regularly(hell, even people in this top 15 can manage to team together to make this work).

It takes 2-3 hours to fill a horn in a good team, I think the problem is finding people who want to fill their horn every day. I guess it's for people who don't enjoy running around in circles all day and enjoy speeding the process up, personally I find BA much more enjoyable than agility anyway. You guys are all missing my point. You talk a lot about the theory, but in practice, it does not work. Nobody has done any significant amount of Xp while agiling with the BA horn and obtained better Xp/hr overall. As for the person who mentioned BAA, that clan sucks L. How can you exactly tell if someone does or doesn't manage this? As you'd only train when you have a full horn, the xp would be highly inconsistent within weeks and days, but the average per playing hour would still be over 100k an hour. For 200m in all skills, you could fill the horn once a week and empty it, thus taking ~3 years for 200m, so by no means is this impossible(or even hard). The only case where there could be a problem with this is if your sole goal in rs is to train agility, and that is too rare to even consider.

Psssssst..... the discussion was supposed to end, here and now. A bit of a late memo but oh well...

Can we judge Jumu for dating/not dating 6 girls at once? OH YES WE CAN! Oh, and i still don't find this blog stuff interesting :???:

It's very complicated to compile a very accurate list as many things are situational(like, for instance, ghosts are weak to crush, but because the crush weapons that people use have alot more slash accuracy, and ghosts have high defense against both, it's worth using slash, not crush). Such a list would be better if compiled as weakness to weapons, not styles, as there are select few methods of killing monsters in daemonheim(and otherwise you could get lists like magic > melee > magic).

It takes 2-3 hours to fill a horn in a good team, I think the problem is finding people who want to fill their horn every day. I guess it's for people who don't enjoy running around in circles all day and enjoy speeding the process up, personally I find BA much more enjoyable than agility anyway. prob only worth it if u were in a ba clan or something. I think the forced roles thing/lack of connections or timezones makes ba harder than dg in terms of finding quality players to play with most people can do decent attacking/collecting but its hard to be a defender/healer and the ba horn only stores 1.3m exp so it would be way too much break betwee using/having to find people and playing. if the horn stored 10m exp for example it would be easier to train longterm and fill it up alot when on good team and empty when noones on. I think people will NOT use ba for the majority of agility If you don't actively train agility and only train it when you have charge in your horn, 100k agility xp an hour isn't hard at all- even the BA teams in dgs can manage that. If you were a member of BAA and did BA as frequently as you could, i can't see any problem with managing that as an average- what jebrim is forgetting is that if your goal is anything reasonable(ie, not 1b agility xp) you will have other things to do, too, so there isn't any time lost waiting for teams and such. For 200m in all skills, it's definitely reasonable to use horn for all that xp- you are only depending on other people for around 33% of the time of training agility.

Unless you think it would be efficient to gain 1b+ xp in a day, it wouldn't really matter...

Don't forget zombies (best use rapier/battleaxe on those, or mage) and skeletons (battleaxe again, or mage) or shades (rapier, battleaxe) or how about any forgotten mage/ranger a few tiers below max (rapier/battleaxe again) or perhaps brutes (rapier, mage) etc. etc. I don't think there is anything(and if there is, not by much) a primal 2h with turm flashing will be the absolute best weapon for. For this to be the case, the monster would need to have >400 def max hit against slash(and higher against stab and crush) plus have high defense against both ranged and mage. The only ones i can realistically think of are 5:5 thundy or gulega, but even those might not have enough def(and it would be stupid to not rager gulega anyway). 2h is a great overall weapon, but it only really shines against high defense, and every monster in deamonheim is weak to something(thus it's basically the best weapon to use against things it shouldn't be used against).

Wow theres a max zeal? Suiciding in soul wars keeps up your activity so you dont have to worry about getting too much xp :) I think you could also use splash mage Goodluck with collecting 63k blue charms while only training combat at SW :angry: That's what cannons are for, if you notice in my suggested setup for max xp potential I didnt use SW to max range. Of course you could use rings of recoil lol but meh. Also I thought you could get charms from soul wars. Lootsharing for charms(wallaskies for blues) is also possible.

It might be worth considering making ~4 hour trips without herbicide, picking up snape grass, wf vials and rannars to make the needed 15 hourly prayer potions there yourself. Picking up 45 items shouldn't be a major worry, and the only part of that equation, as far as i know, that slows down melee hits is second+unf, and it's only 15 times an hour. Ofcource, this again adds the hourly focus you have to pay, and some people prefer laid back. (for making the potions, you can only have one vial, second and herb in your inventory at a time) Super prayers are for lazy people, and as i have many thousands of them, i still sometimes use them there(and everywhere else).

Nonmaxed keyers with only ranked teammates can easily do 18-20 minute average floors, and i don't think there are many in 3bo who can manage under that. CCS has 37,5% bonus damage, and with fire surge, beats primal 2h with turmoil for over 60% of the monsters(although fire runes can be a problem). With CCS bind, you'd be maging about 40% of the monsters, which is definitely worth the bind. Mage weak monsters really aren't as rare as you might think, and as everyone would use 2h in 3BO, the dps increase is VERY significant(battleaxe with turmoil would beat fire surge with CCS). This is exactly why we put so much emphasis on research.

3BO requires 105(110) dungeoneering, DGS requires 45 defense. 3BO is a floor finding clan chat, DGS is a clan where people work on getting better and making other people around you better. 3BO is ignorant to new developements of dungeoneering, DGS works actively on research and on developing new strategies for dungeoneering. The fact is, before 105 dungeoneering, DGS is the better clan, and the people over 105 dungeoneering in dgs(of whom most are ranks) are better than the average 3BO-er. Where 3BO has the advantage is with maxed, 120 dungeoneers with 4 binds teaming up together, but that's only a small portion of 3bo teams. We aren't raging about the spear, just pointing out what a stupid bind it is. Foot is well-respected in many areas of where efficiency matters, so it's hard to understand him not understanding the difference between rapier and spear.

For miths, KS>claws, no other offensive special weapon is really worth it. Part of this comes down to special attacks not stacking with FSH and the other half is accuracy- and against high def, dagger spec is too inaccurate.

It's a nonrare 3rd bind(neck and hex are rare or extremely rare) that increases your overall melee dps by around 6%(+12 str bonus). Most people in dgs do floors 30+, although floors 30-35 will have slower teams for lower levels.