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I think there is too much premise put on how much a loafer will hurt their team, particularly if you consider cw on themed worlds. Firstly, loafers will ONLY hurt the teams if the numbers on each team are significantly unequal. If there is the same number on both teams, they would have absolutely no effect on the game at all. Secondly, there are many low level players in the game that can't really make a difference in the game, so looking at the goal of the game, they might aswell be loafing. Another problem is that there hardly is any teamwork, and a large part of the players don't actually do anything to help their team win(particularly if they only work on killing random people in neutral zones), thus they too can be considered loafers, too. Overall, if you look at the game and its mechanics, it's quite easy to see why people would loaf the minigame and i don't think it significantly affects legit players. As said very early in the topic, everyone loafing and everyone legitimately playing the game produces exactly the same result, so why even bother?

As far as wingmanning goes(and 80% of the people in a dungeon are wingmen), i'd rank good dpsing as the most significant thing to learn. While the other things are very important, too, you can largely ignore them if your teammates are competent enough(well, 1-2 people can realistically ignore those), but everyone still has to do gd's. Proper knowledge of dpsing doesn't only include maximizing your own and the teams damage, but also covers strategies of how to stay alive and miss the least amount of time doing that.

Zaap, one thing to consider is that people who go for the trim cape only need to be in the game, so their goal is different. While other players need to work their asses off to win and get tickets, the trim just requires a set number of games- you don't need the team and you can/will achieve your goal regardless of the outcome of the game. Jagex is basically encouraging them to loaf around...

He clearly benefits alot from good teams(as said about the vid), so the 28 min estimate would be with some of the average players in 3bo(/dgs). With a great keyer/great team your average should be 17-19, but it's not very difficult to average 25 minutes with that great team.

I can't speak for the people who loaf at Castle Wars for some reason other than meeting the Completionist Cape (t) requirement, but I can tell you that people loafing at CW because of the requirement are not at all hard to come by. It's a highly-coveted item, and yet only 1 person currently has it out of all the elite/maxed players in Runescape. For most of them, the CW requirement is the major hurdle that prevents them from obtaining it. At least the other minigame/miniquest requirements are somewhat manageable, but 5k Castle Wars games? There's no other way around it; they must sink a ridiculous amount of time into it, and trying to actively participate the entire time is extraordinarily tiring, believe me. If this does become a major issue for cw it will only prove that the requirement was unreasonable in the first place. I don't really see it as a major issue as some level 50 will basically do as much as some afker and a large portion of the people in a game don't significantly affect the outcome of the game, so a person endlessly killing random people does just as much as someone afking at base, and this is also true for sw. For me, it's very much like afking ivy or rocktails, as they both show dislike for the activity and desire for the result(be it 5k cw games or 99 fishing).

Alot of people don't plan to have a baby = Best birth-control ever! But yeah, i still think he is still in the mix and with how far the top players have gone, it gets increasingly unlikely that someone outside of the top 15 will get there first. I still have my bets on suomi(consistent, can stick to one skill until it's done and isn't afraid to tackle hard skills).

With all the armor and food the guy had, i thought there was for sure going to be ww3 around the corner... I didn't think the keying was particularly good for the floor, mostly as he didn't really have a plan of what what to do right now all the time, while he should clearly have used the map more often to consider some moves. The gatestones were a mess at times and there were many situations where smarter gating could have saved him 10+ seconds. Overall, i'd rank the keying as average, managing something like 28 minutes on an average team. I felt the floor only had a decent time because the team helped out so much(though it's not visible trough the floor). As for dpsing the floor, i felt is was awful and i'd certainly expect people that high level to do alot better. I know some of the issue comes down to having 5x 2h, 1 csb and 1 hex(and we weren't allowed to criticize binds) but i felt the speed that gds were getting done was just too slow- it's likely that every member didn't turmoil flash the entire floor and because of the uniform binds, people couldn't really prioritize in gds and that was a major reason for the lack of dps, but just in general, i would like people to be more proactive and that team was lacking in that department. Also, from that video, it didn't occur to me once that a keyer would need plate+legs+laws binds, but it did occur to me that he still has things to learn about combat mechanics.

If it's a minigame where you being there makes no difference(cw and sw mostly) then i'd say it's fair game, however, in some minigames it actually hurts others(like pc) it should strongly be discouraged. The reason it's ok for cw/sw is mostly because they are time based and a single individual makes basically no difference, particularly with the new 90 day requirement for trim cape.

Sooo... where is the apology for calling people ignorant, while, infact, you were/are ignorant? <_<

I don't really see how ignorance about the knowledge of bots/botting is a bad thing, particularly when alot of people in possession of that knowledge have first hand experience. But really, the fact is that bots play so inefficently that a bot playing 24 hours a day wouldn't really stand a chance against some of the top players today(some of whom play 10-16 hours a day), particularly as they couldn't really merchant for money.

I'd love to see a vid of that. Would still beat the bickering w117'ers :smile:

The best way to get a csb is to do normal larges(preferably occoult ones). Do tell your team, particularly a hex, that you are after one. Recruit rank is given out on a case-by-case basis, and i you've read the guidelined carefully, been in some floors and not had any serious issues a mod or admin(gold star or key rank) can invite you to the clan.

was he afking or doorstanding? I agree about the dcing, but sometimes that just happens, and c1's usually make for alot of lag. Probably should have kicked him from the party and continue 4 man(basically the same as 5 man anyway).

I don't think good dungeoneering traditions change much with what team you are with- they do have ragers and in all likelyhood haven't smithed armor, so they are atleast trying to be good. And really, i just have reservations about having 4 manned a floor once, but that picture doesn't show me much promise in that department.

Yeah, everyone is clearly flaming you... But yeah, games is right, for the next 13 levels, unless you key all the floors, you can be considered a leecher. Hex is not a great main weapon and you pretending that it is over the knowledge of players who have used one for tens of millions of dg is is quite pathetic.

I see alot more things wrong with the pic other than him having a bind he can't use...

Yeah, sorry Andy, but i promised gwyn to reveal the secret identity of your twin brothers: Some motivation to get 99 attack :twisted:

Nope. There's no berserker ring in f2p. Spear out DPSs both rapier and 2h, as was mentioned earlier. Anyway, this argument is pretty much w61 dgers arguing for plate while people who've never been argue for something else. You choose who's a more reliable source. I'm actually quite stunned to see how unbalanced the f2p weapons are in favor of the spear, but even then, a combo of spear and 2h would make alot of sense as spear it not great against slash or high def(and 2h excells at those). That aside, listening to the guy who screams loudest doesn't always make sense- just look at p2p dungeoneering. 3bo is the most well established dungeoneering clan out there, and as they don't particularly care or haven't bothered with much research, platebody is by far the most common 3rd bind, even though it's clearly not the best bind if you are any good at dungeoneering(particularly for dps-ing). For f2p, as people dungeoneer with skillers, it shouldn't really be an issue getting a full set of armor couple of minutes in, but as the monsters are so low levelled, defense shouldn't be as much of a problem as offense is in the starting moments of a dungeon, so it would make sense to bind max offense, particularly as plate is quite insignificant statwise compared to p2p.

Draconics are terrible for herb seeds, and hunting just commons is usually not practical(although they are good for herb seeds). The best way to get herb seeds is to hunt igneous and carrion jads at the same time, resulting in both good seeds and good amount of useful vines(marbles for farming juju). Not to mention, until like 90 hunter, carrion/igneous combo is the best hunter xp.

Where do you find people dumb enough to stake you without even stats? non-maxed staking, perhaps? And yeah, i basically agree with autist in that a martingale(or whatever the system is called) scale staking isn't anywhere near the best for of staking, particularly with a limited cashpile. It would be more sensible to stake based on performance, rather than exclude performance altogether, as that way you can limit losses when you aren't doing well and maximize profits if you are. The basic premise is that staking is a 0-profit business(actually everyone loses money as they lose time doing it), so the only way to win is if you have the upper hand, either that of luck or taking advantage of a set of rules you've allowed yourself(basically being disciplined when your opponents are not).

Well, basically, what it boils down to is the quality of dungeoneers that use those binds. Any newb can use a plate and get a high percentage of use out of it, while the binds we recommend require you to learn and adapt for them to be useful and better. For dungeoneering, a plate might be the best 3rd bind as people just aren't skilled enough, but the approach dgs is taking is that we encourage people to get better and work on their dungeoneering skills by basically disallowing the bind that would be detrimental to learning proper combat mechanics in dungeons, thus, even though some may suffer for it, the end goal is that every one us will have those those vital skills and be much better for it. I'm not saying that a plate is useless, but a really good dungeoneer has enough tricks up his sleeve to avoid atleast as much damage without wasting a bind slot for it, and if you don't learn those tricks, you will never be a good enough dungeoneer.

I bet jimi would try to play me. Sure hope the teacher isn't a dragon... :shades:

Eye, your floor must be fake, some 85 mage with 2 binds got battle mage over charlie....

Reposting. I wouldn't know much about f2p, but realistically, 2h and rapier combo should be best dps as you'd have rapier for stab and slash, 2h for crush and high defense slash. Armor binds in f2p are really quite pointless, particularly for a maxed account wearing low level armor, what with all the low level monsters and all.

Cave crawlers are great for both(best by far for effigies and decent for charms, although most are green/gold), but they are somewhat costly. Black demons are the best compromise between the two, killed at taverly dungeon.