Your opinions on sex change?

[ortiz9471]

I don't think it's absolutely revolting but I think it is unneccessary and definetly reveals to me a lot about their character before I even say hi to them, and it's not a positive note :-w

[Nadril]

I don't think it's absolutely revolting but I think it is unneccessary and definetly reveals to me a lot about their character before I even say hi to them, and it's not a positive note :-w

 

 

 

Why do you think it is uneccessary?

[adam_ross0]

Of course it isn't going to effect me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it doesn't affect me either if they're legal. So why are you completely opposed to them being illegal as I am to them being legal?

 

 

 

edit: Why is my post in caps?

[Nadril]

Of course it isn't going to effect me!

 

 

 

 

 

 

And it doesn't affect me either if they're legal. So why are you completely opposed to them being illegal as I am to them being legal?

 

 

 

*sigh*.

 

 

 

 

 

Why are some people against or for to abortion even though they aren't a female and don't plan on having kids?

 

 

 

Why are people against or for homosexuality even if they aren't homosexual?

 

 

 

 

 

Guess what, just because it doesn't affect me personaly does not mean I don't have to just simply not care about it.

 

 

 

Also, this is a debate. In a debate you argue view points. IF you can not handle that than clearly this is not for you.

 

 

 

 

 

The point is it doesn't matter if it affects me or not. However your single reason for wanting it to be illegal is that it is gross / a few might lie about what sex they origionaly were. You are going to have to explain that more if you want your viewpoint to hold any sort of water.

[Pkmastachaos]

Personally I don't really care for it, and find it unmoral and rather stupid. What sort of beneficial aspects could come out of it? Maybe some temporary happiness, a sexual pleasure? Maybe you just wanted to be the other sex in the first place?

 

 

 

Very strange. We we're meant to be the gender we were born to be. It should be banned for surgeons to do operations like this. But hell, I guess people can do what they want with their money, and if it makes them happy, who's to tell them otherwise.

 

 

 

People are dying of famine and disease, and here's people spending who knows how much on unnecessary operations like a sex change.. :roll:

 

 

 

Jesus christ, read through the thread!

 

 

 

Someone does not get a sex change just for temporary hapiness. Those who get a sex change feel confused in their own body. They feel like the other gender and it leads to a lot of depression.

 

 

 

Again it is just not some random person thinking "hey, I want to be a female! it'd be cool!" NO its someone who has more likely than not been confused their entire life.

 

 

 

First off, I was merely expressing my opinion. You don't need to be such a hard [wagon] about it. I don't know about you Nadril, but I really, really have better things to do rather then examine every post, and then type on every off-topic thread there is. So calm down a little alright? Seriously.

 

 

 

I'm sure not everyone just gets a sex change because their depressed. There will always be some person who is just willing to take advantage of others by getting a sex change, for money or whatever their reasons. But I'll give you that much, a majority probably get one for the reason you supplied.

 

 

 

As for the last part of your post, there's no need to treat me like I'm an idiot. I'm fully aware people just don't get a random thought they should be the opposite sex. So don't go implying that was what I was trying to say, because it's not.

[adam_ross0]

Again, it's my opinion. I don't have to prove anything. And I have a good reason for opposing abortion, but I don't want to go into it. It's my opinion that both transsexuality and homosexuality are disgusting and wrong, and I don't need a good reason to opose it. I think it should be illegal for many reasons that I cannot post here because I think it's against the rules to post that content here. So I have to lean on what CAN be said to back myself up.

[Nadril]

Again, it's my opinion. I don't have to prove anything. And I have a good reason for opposing abortion, but I don't want to go into it. It's my opinion that both transsexuality and homosexuality are disgusting and wrong, and I don't need a good reason to opose it. I think it should be illegal for many reasons that I cannot post here because I think it's against the rules to post that content here. So I have to lean on what CAN be said to back myself up.

 

 

 

So your arguement is simply you are a bigot. Cheers.

 

 

 

 

 

First off, I was merely expressing my opinion. You don't need to be such a hard [wagon] about it. I don't know about you Nadril, but I really, really have better things to do rather then examine every post, and then type on every off-topic thread there is. So calm down a little alright? Seriously.

 

 

 

I'm sure not everyone just gets a sex change because their depressed. There will always be some person who is just willing to take advantage of others by getting a sex change, for money or whatever their reasons. But I'll give you that much, a majority probably get one for the reason you supplied.

 

 

 

As for the last part of your post, there's no need to treat me like I'm an idiot. I'm fully aware people just don't get a random thought they should be the opposite sex. So don't go implying that was what I was trying to say, because it's not.

 

 

 

Thats what your threads tone came off as. Also why should the large majority get clumped in with the (what you said) small majority who do it for other reasons? Its like saying all blacks are crooks even though a small minority is.

[adam_ross0]

So your arguement is simply you are a bigot. Cheers.

 

 

 

So..I'm a bigot -.- GREAT conclusion, Nadril! I'm sure not even [insert smart guy here] could think of that! Congratulations =D>

 

 

 

Sure. I'll let you believe that..that removes one idiot from the rest that I have to worry about. Now onto a different thread. :P

[Kashi]

I don't think it's absolutely revolting but I think it is unneccessary and definetly reveals to me a lot about their character before I even say hi to them, and it's not a positive note :-w

 

 

 

Why do you think it is uneccessary?

 

 

 

Okay, now let's not kid ourselves. I support people having the freedom to have an operation

 

like this, but let's not deny the fact that it is an unnecessary procedure. By unnecessary, I mean

 

that is it not a matter of life and death, which is the only way I can define things being a necessity.

 

If a person feels unhappy being whichever gender he/she is, they're not going to die unless they

 

commit the ultimate stupidity and take their own life. It may be important to the person's happiness

 

and sense of self, but it's certainly not necessary.

 

 

 

EDIT: I think for the most part, people's inhibitions about about this subject come from a

 

societal taboo surrounding homosexuality. (And homosexuality definitely relates closely to

 

getting a sex change operation)

 

 

 

I was raised in a Japanese family, and for the most part, homosexuality is accepted in Japan. There

 

are no problems with homosexuality in Japan, but in America it's looked down upon, so I'd say

 

that most of the people posting negatively are Americans.

 

 

 

Maybe some are Europeans, too, although Europe tends to be more relaxed about things like this.

[Pkmastachaos]

Thats what your threads tone came off as. Also why should the large majority get clumped in with the (what you said) small majority who do it for other reasons? Its like saying all blacks are crooks even though a small minority is.

 

 

 

Toucḫ̩̉̉. I'll admit I am no where as informed as you are in this sort of subject. Maybe I could've reworded what I've said, but I'll stand by it. As I'm not sure what to say I won't say anything else.

 

 

 

Otherwise I do agree with your little rebuttal with adam_ross0, you just can't go saying that a sex change is gross and wrong. There are many other reasons (as I attempted to point out) that having a sex change is wrong. But then again, who am I to say it is.

[Kashi]

You're right. Nobody has the right to decide for somebody else what's right or wrong.

 

Vegetarians think eating meat is wrong, but 99% of the population does. A vegetarian not wanting

 

to eat meat is fine, because that's a personal decision, but as soon as they start telling

 

other people that they shouldn't eat meat, that it's wrong and immoral and sick to do so, that's

 

when they've stepped over the line.

[warri0r45]

Let's turn that question around, how does it affect you if either homosexuality OR transexuality is illegal?

 

Let's not and retain some semblance of order in this discussion, can we? Great.

 

 

 

I find myself agreeing more and more with you in this discussion, Nadril. After all, I'd like to think that western countries are liberal and allow us to live whatever life we so choose as long as it dosen't harm others. Everyone's little 'gross-outs' and 'ewwies' and 'it's just wrongs' kinda subtract from that fundamental liberty and mean nothing in a debate or discussion. Anyone who hides behind the excuse of 'it's just my opinion' is engaging in a cop-out. If your best response is 'it's just my opinion' then you clearly haven't thought about it enough or at all thanks to the convenience of parents feeding you meaningless opinionated BS.

 

 

 

Again, it's my opinion. I don't have to prove anything. And I have a good reason for opposing abortion, but I don't want to go into it. It's my opinion that both transsexuality and homosexuality are disgusting and wrong, and I don't need a good reason to opose it. I think it should be illegal for many reasons that I cannot post here because I think it's against the rules to post that content here. So I have to lean on what CAN be said to back myself up.

 

Okie-dokie, PM me your reasons if you want and we'll dialogue. :P

[camcam]

no thanks! ugh

 

 

 

its not natural and not right BLAGH =; :shame: :-X :notalk: :x :shock: :evil:

[RayOxide]

Let's turn that question around, how does it affect you if either homosexuality OR transexuality is illegal?

Are you saying, you have a problem against Homosexuals?

 

 

 

Noone until now knows I am Bisexual... :

[Tigra00]

Let's turn that question around, how does it affect you if either homosexuality OR transexuality is illegal?

Are you saying, you have a problem against Homosexuals?

 

 

 

Noone until now knows I am Bisexual... :

 

 

 

Dude. Sig.

 

 

 

Anyways, I don't think it's a question of "is homosexuality/transsexuality disgusting/wrong?", because we all know the answer to that question. Yes, they're both gross, and they're both...well, not necessarily "wrong", but not "right", for sure. But rather "...But will you oppress those who participate in things people view as wrong?", that makes you a bigotted a-hole.

 

 

 

It's really no secret that homosexuality isn't "right". Even homosexuals as a whole generally have problems with it when they figure out they're homosexuals. Some people even go as far as to kill themselves. Obviously, it isn't right. But the fact remains, it is there, and it is the choice of if you accept it or oppress it that makes you a good person or a jerk-off.

[RayOxide]

Dude. Sig.

 

 

 

I changed it about 20 mins ago :-$ lol.

 

 

 

I guess, I only came out yesterday, if, ofcourse, it is coming out? :-s

[Nadril]

Let's turn that question around, how does it affect you if either homosexuality OR transexuality is illegal?

Are you saying, you have a problem against Homosexuals?

 

 

 

Noone until now knows I am Bisexual... :

 

 

 

Dude. Sig.

 

 

 

Anyways, I don't think it's a question of "is homosexuality/transsexuality disgusting/wrong?", because we all know the answer to that question. Yes, they're both gross, and they're both...well, not necessarily "wrong", but not "right", for sure. But rather "...But will you oppress those who participate in things people view as wrong?", that makes you a bigotted a-hole.

 

 

 

It's really no secret that homosexuality isn't "right". Even homosexuals as a whole generally have problems with it when they figure out they're homosexuals. Some people even go as far as to kill themselves. Obviously, it isn't right. But the fact remains, it is there, and it is the choice of if you accept it or oppress it that makes you a good person or a jerk-off.

 

 

 

One could argue the reason many try to kill themselves is because they are afraid of letting others know about it.

 

 

 

 

 

Many other animals in nature, as stated before, have had and have homosexual tendencys. I do agree that it would probably be somewhat uncomfortable for me to watch two dudes going at it but then again I don't wanna see a lot of people... going at it.

[Bauke]

 

 

 

I'm not saying they're doing it for the fun of it, I am acknowledging that they are confused, mentally unstable people. I however don't believe that mutilating your body is the right way to "cure" them as it doesn't actually work they're just very mixed up people that need proper help.

 

 

You are wrong.

 

1. They want it.

 

2. They feel better after they changed sex.

 

 

 

How dare you to judge about what works and what doesn't. Once again you based it on false assumptions. If one feels bad before surgery and feels good after that's enough proof it works.

 

 

Nice argument there "the law is stupid then" how ignorant, you've just made an effort to try and ignore my point because you cant think of a logical way to argue it. I was using it as an example to make my point so it is relevant. As the law is a representation of society, designed to protect its citizens.

 

 

I didn't mean to give an argument, seeing that it's offtopic anyways. I can't see the relation between the two cases and I don't care for arguments on this. Lets keep it at the current topic.

 

 

Born in the wrong body, well if they say so right? I personally don't believe that anybody willing to have their entire body, personality mutilated by drastic surgery is in a position to decide what is right.

 

 

And again, based on false assumptions. You make it seem that these people are idiots, that they are not able to judge thinks correctly. Like I said, those people are perfectly normal, except for one little thing. They are just as normal and intelligent as you and I.

 

 

Are we supposed to trust people with Multiple Personality Disorders just because its "their body" means they should be allowed to go around behaving erratically.

 

 

Different medical conditions, different conclusions.

 

 

Seriously if you're in a position where you are willing to do such a thing to yourself then you're not in a position to make good decisions.

 

 

That just shows how unhappy they are. Drastic surgery is the only way.

 

 

 

 

They're not mentally ill but have a mental condition, whats the difference here? I don't see any information supporting what you're saying here and either way just because I have a source on the Internet doesn't make it anymore reliable than what I'm saying right now. They aren't normal people they are very sick people.

 

 

 

Ok, I put that the wrong way. They are suffering mentally because of a medical condition. Someone with cancer can suffer mentally too. And I'm a medical student so I can give you some interesting books to read if you're interested.

 

 

 

 

Many other animals in nature, as stated before, have had and have homosexual tendencys. I do agree that it would probably be somewhat uncomfortable for me to watch two dudes going at it but then again I don't wanna see a lot of people... going at it.

 

 

 

Exactly. Fruit flies get homosexual at low temperatures :P (or was it at high temperatures... Well that's not really important)

 

 

 

================================================

 

 

 

In general...

 

Male/female differences arent always as straightforward. There can be errors in chromosomes, in sexual development (example: No degration of the wolffian duct in teh early stages of the gonadal development). That way, what someone that looks like a male, doesn't neccesarily have to feel him/herself like a male.

 

That's why a sex change, like modifying the gonads and hormone therapy can give such a person the body which fits best for his/her phsyiology and psychology.

[Striker6]

Well done for repeating exactly what you did in the other post :thumbsup:

 

 

 

How can you not see the link between suicide being illegal and changing your sex being legal. See you said "its their bodies they can do whatever the hell they want" I said "How come suicide is against the law then". If you can do whatever you want with your body (like you claim) how come suicide is illegal!

 

 

 

I don't actually believe anything you are saying

 

 

 

2. They feel better after they changed sex.

 

 

 

 

Ok, what about the person Grim_Jokes mentioned earlier, does he/she feel better afterwards? NO. You don't have any proof that people recover from depression after a sex change, instead it just misdirects the depression and makes it worse.

 

 

 

And again, based on false assumptions. You make it seem that these people are idiots, that they are not able to judge thinks correctly. Like I said, those people are perfectly normal, except for one little thing. They are just as normal and intelligent as you and I.

 

 

 

Oh right yeah its normal to have a sex change Bauke, everybody does it :thumbsup:

 

Bottom line is these people aren't normal but mentaly ill people that would be made better with proper counselling not changing their gender :XD: It's very painful and causes more problem with the person.

[Kashi]

Yes, America certainly is the 'home of the free'.

 

 

 

You're free to be exactly like everyone else, and if you don't want to be then you're free

 

to get made fun of and looked down upon. Decisions, decisions ... :-k

 

 

 

The fact is, America is the most oppressed country I know of. Our government doesn't

 

oppress us, we do it just fine by ourselves. You either conform, or you be miserable with a very

 

few others like you who also didn't want to do something just because everyone else says

 

it's "right".

 

 

 

Tell you what, I'll get sex-changed into Orlando Bloom and steal all your girlfriends, what?

 

Then, after -you- all turn gay because your ladies left you, we can all laugh at you.

[Striker6]

Yes, America certainly is the 'home of the free'.

 

 

 

You're free to be exactly like everyone else, and if you don't want to be then you're free

 

to get made fun of and looked down upon. Decisions, decisions ... :-k

 

 

 

The fact is, America is the most oppressed country I know of. Our government doesn't

 

oppress us, we do it just fine by ourselves. You either conform, or you be miserable with a very

 

few others like you who also didn't want to do something just because everyone else says

 

it's "right".

 

 

 

Tell you what, I'll get sex-changed into Orlando Bloom and steal all your girlfriends, what?

 

Then, after -you- all turn gay because your ladies left you, we can all laugh at you.

 

 

 

Could you please take your misdirected ramblings elsewhere? Thanks :thumbsup:

[Kashi]

Could you please take your misdirected ramblings elsewhere? Thanks :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Misdirected ramblings? That was completely on-topic.

 

 

 

The fact is, this isn't even about people being allowed to have a sex change, it's about

 

freedom in general. Most people eat meat, does that make vegetarians sick or wrong?

 

Most people drive cars, does that make bikers immoral? Or gross? MOST people can accept

 

somebody else being different. Does that make half the posters on this thread '[bleep]ed up'?

 

 

 

I said it before, the only reason you all find it so gross is because there's a sexual taboo ground

 

into your brains. You all think that just because something is related to sex, it's automatically

 

disgusting unless it's man+woman, missionary position sex between two married people.

 

 

 

Tattoos are painful, permanent, dangerous things, but you don't regard them as sick. Even if a

 

person has tatoos covering 99% of the exposed parts of their bodies, you don't think it's immoral,

 

just unusual.

 

 

 

A person can live after an operation exactly as they did before one. The -only- part of their

 

life that changes is sex! Which isn't even that big of a deal!

 

 

 

The only concession I will make is that a person who's 'with' a post-operation 'woman' has

 

a right to know, because it may clash with that person's religious beliefs or something of that nature.

 

If the person doesn't want to have sex with a post-operation person, then that's a choice they

 

should have a right to make. But a person getting a sex change only affects that person's

 

life. It doesn't directly affect anyone else, and therefore 'anyone else' has no say in it. Period.

 

 

 

EDIT: And as a side note, to the several people who said this, getting a sex change does

 

not mean that person is mentally ill. Go to any doctor of psychology, and if they diagnose

 

"desire to get a sex change" as a mental illness they're a [bleep]ing spin doctor.

[warri0r45]

Well done for repeating exactly what you did in the other post :thumbsup:

 

 

 

How can you not see the link between suicide being illegal and changing your sex being legal. See you said "its their bodies they can do whatever the hell they want" I said "How come suicide is against the law then". If you can do whatever you want with your body (like you claim) how come suicide is illegal!

 

 

 

I don't actually believe anything you are saying

 

 

 

2. They feel better after they changed sex.

 

 

 

 

Ok, what about the person Grim_Jokes mentioned earlier, does he/she feel better afterwards? NO. You don't have any proof that people recover from depression after a sex change, instead it just misdirects the depression and makes it worse.

 

 

 

And again, based on false assumptions. You make it seem that these people are idiots, that they are not able to judge thinks correctly. Like I said, those people are perfectly normal, except for one little thing. They are just as normal and intelligent as you and I.

 

 

 

Oh right yeah its normal to have a sex change Bauke, everybody does it :thumbsup:

 

Bottom line is these people aren't normal but mentaly ill people that would be made better with proper counselling not changing their gender :XD: It's very painful and causes more problem with the person.

 

 

 

It is thier body and they can do what they want. Is there even a law against suicide? I'm curious. How would they police it? I doubt there's even a law against it; it's just a social moral construct. Happy to be corrected, though. At the bold comment, I do find it ironic that you say that he has no evidence for his claim when upon my repeated challanging for you do do likewise, you're still yet to come up with any evidence to support your claims. Oh wait, you don't need to because you "own this debate."

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, America certainly is the 'home of the free'.

 

 

 

You're free to be exactly like everyone else, and if you don't want to be then you're free

 

to get made fun of and looked down upon. Decisions, decisions ... :-k

 

 

 

The fact is, America is the most oppressed country I know of. Our government doesn't

 

oppress us, we do it just fine by ourselves. You either conform, or you be miserable with a very

 

few others like you who also didn't want to do something just because everyone else says

 

it's "right".

 

 

 

Tell you what, I'll get sex-changed into Orlando Bloom and steal all your girlfriends, what?

 

Then, after -you- all turn gay because your ladies left you, we can all laugh at you.

 

 

 

Could you please take your misdirected ramblings elsewhere? Thanks :thumbsup:

 

 

 

What? Kashi made a very valid point at the persecution of anyone that dosen't fit cultural norms. You're participating in it yourself. You say it isn't normal and you're right, it isn't. But they are human beings too, they don't deserve to be treated like freaks who are dangers to society just because of your narrow minded opinions.

 

 

 

I find it superbly ironic that you mention the example given by Grim_Jokes, being this -

 

 

 

The only reason anyone would regret a sex change is the way people treat them for it. My girlfriend knows a lady who works at a hardware store. She had a sex change from being a man to being a woman. Yet, she is still forced to dress up as a man, even though she wants to be a woman. Now, that, is unfair.

 

 

 

Do you think being bisexuality is a mental disease too?

 

 

 

When it clearly states the only reason why anyone would regret having a sex change is how people treat them for it, such as what you are doing. And then you dismiss what Kashi wrote as "misdirected ramblings."

 

 

 

Ah yes, it's all coming together now. Your arguments, striker, are bigoted and utterly moronic. Form them independantly of what your parents say and we might get something of worth out of this discussion. Better yet, actually come up with ANY source which affirms your position that people who have a sex change are dangers to society. I, Kashi and Grim_Jokes have all alluded to people such as yourself being the cause of the problems in these issues because of your narrow tolerance of anything that's outside of your world view.

[Kashi]

I off-topic forum.

 

 

 

It's so [bleep]'ing random.

[assassin_696]

So Striker, adam and all the others who seem to think they have a god-given right to decide what's right and wrong, let me ask you this:

 

 

 

You're saying that people who want a sex change aren't allowed to decide what they can and what they can't do with their own bodies when it's not hurting anybody else, but you can decide for them, you can decide what's right and wrong for them?

 

 

 

Think about it, what gives you the right but not them?