Abortion.

[xvillexvalox]

Seeing as thats what my original topic on teen pregnancy eventually led to, I think it would be better to break off into this topic and let the other one die, unless someone has to add to it.

 

 

 

For extra credit post an anti-abortion post not including potential. (Thanks to someone from the other thread that brought up that point.)

[Arrr]

If the family can't afford or can't raise a baby properly, you shouldn't have a baby. There's no reason that if you're barely scraping by to add another expense to your budget. Although, it'd teach the people a leason (for some reason, I think I spelled that wrong) not to have sex without contraceptives.

 

 

 

But again, if they can't raise a child properly, they shouldn't even have it.

[warri0r45]

I'm pro-choice. I don't care if you do get an abortion or not because it's your right as an individual human being to make a descision which harms no-one else independant of me instructing you as to what I think you should do. And emotional harm because of pre-concieved beliefs is not harm. And, aborting a conglomeration of cells not yet with a differentiated nervous system is not harm. Take the emotion out of it and you may see things the same way.

 

 

 

If someone would like to take me up on it, please tell me how an act which in no way effects you and effects the descision maker for the better is wrong (assuming, hypothetically, that the descision does in fact help the descision maker and eliminating all peripheral possibilities).

[knives669]

I'm completely pro choice. If a woman wants an abortion, no matter what the circumstance (save for age of the baby. I think the earlier it's done, the better) she has the right for an abortion.

[Lenin64]

I'm pro-choice. I don't care if you do get an abortion or not because it's your right as an individual human being to make a descision which harms no-one else independant of me instructing you as to what I think you should do. And emotional harm because of pre-concieved beliefs is not harm. And, aborting a conglomeration of cells not yet with a differentiated nervous system is not harm. Take the emotion out of it and you may see things the same way.

 

 

 

If someone would like to take me up on it, please tell me how an act which in no way affects you and affects the descision maker for the better is wrong (assuming, hypothetically, that the descision does in fact help the descision maker and eliminating all peripheral posibilities).

 

thats the problem with people. they do eeverything with emotion. Sure, its human nature, but if you can step outside of it you can see everything with a lot more logic. i remember having this debate during physical education last year. One person was very pro-life, and I was able to keep up the seriosuness and throw in a reeally bad burn to some other kid in the process :thumbsup: go me! \

[Kill_Thomas9]

If the baby is going to have a horrible life anyway, you might consider abortion. But if you do consider abortion, the unborn baby should be used for stem cell research.

[WutangFlu]

Nuff said.

 

[johntm]

Abortion should only be available to rape victims. Period.

[highlanders]

Although, it'd teach the people a leason (for some reason, I think I spelled that wrong) not to have sex without contraceptives.

 

Only the girl gets those consequences, the guys get totally away with it. Teach people a lesson? A sexist way to teach that is. :notalk:

[warri0r45]

Abortion should only be available to rape victims. Period.

 

 

 

A why would be nice. Perhaps you could answer the question I posed in a previous post.

[fakeitormakeit]

I maybe self consider an abortion as a murder, a life being taken and I am firmly agaisnt it. You should have thought about it in the first place before you had unprotected and not-ready-for-life sex. Now I'm not that sure about what a rape victim should be entitled to, but if you can support a kid and you had sex and your just getting an abortion because "you don't want a headache" then I think thats killing an undefendable innocent.

 

 

 

And that method, which I believe was banned, were the woman is giving birth and the suck out the child's brain, thats ONE WAY TO HELL. That is truely murder.

 

 

 

And I saw this story about a woman pregnant and she had an abortion but she actually had twins and one of the children servived and it was a horrible story, horrible meaning not happy.

 

 

 

And then alot of people after they have an abortion are all wahhh I shouldn't have had an abortion now I lost a child and I can't ever have children, well you should have thought about that long and hard.

 

 

 

Flame me as much as you want, I stand firm for my beliefs although I shall always listen to a valid arguement.

 

[Nitramosma]

I'm almost completely pro-life (not necessarily anti-abortion). I believe that first trimester abortions are generally alright. I may not like the reality that most people would use this as an excuse to have rampant unprotected sex, but all in all, I don't think most fetuses (or are they still zygotes) in the first trimester should be considered living so it can not be killed. However, as soon as it can live outside of the mother's body, even in an incubator in an ICU, it should be considered a life and hence murder to abort it.

 

 

 

As for the excuse that the child would have a [cabbage]ty life, I'm not buyin it. I know in Ohio, probably other states, a mother can drop off a baby at any hospital, police, and I think fire station and say it is up for adoption no questions asked.

 

 

 

Personally I believe that abortions should only be available to rape victims provided that they at least tried to obtain the morning after pill as an emergency contraception. But until that child could live outside its mother's body, logically it can't be considered alive. So logically it can be killing, but my beliefs don;t have to obey logic. I think it is morally wrong to kill something with the full potential for human life.

 

 

 

 

 

Oops...I forgot the only other condition I condone abortion. Imminent threat to the mother's health.

[warri0r45]

(1) I maybe self consider an abortion as a murder, a life being taken and I am firmly agaisnt it. (2) You should have thought about it in the first place before you had unprotected and not-ready-for-life sex. Now I'm not that sure about what a rape victim should be entitled to, but if you can support a kid and you had sex and your just getting an abortion because (3) "you don't want a headache" then I think thats killing an undefendable innocent.

 

 

 

And that method, which I believe was banned, (4) were the woman is giving birth and the suck out the child's brain, thats ONE WAY TO HELL. That is truely murder.

 

 

 

(5) And I saw this story about a woman pregnant and she had an abortion but she actually had twins and one of the children servived and it was a horrible story, horrible meaning not happy.

 

 

 

And then alot of people after they have an abortion are all wahhh I shouldn't have had an abortion now I lost a child and I can't ever have children, (6) well you should have thought about that long and hard.

 

 

 

Flame me as much as you want, I stand firm for my beliefs although I shall always listen to a valid arguement.

 

 

 

 

(1) Let's explore this notion by considering going back to the zygote level - the moment of fusion between sperm and egg. Still murder?

 

 

 

(2) Of course, you should think about it and not do anything, including the descision to abort, hastily.

 

 

 

(3) Of course, not a good enough excuse. But ask yourself, who actually uses this as an excuse to abort? I would have thought not many people or only those severely ignorant of the gravity of the situation they've got themselves in.

 

 

 

(4) Good thing they're not that inhumane or barbaric anymore, yeah? If that actually does go on at all, which I seriously doubt it does, I'm apalled.

 

 

 

(5) You shouldn't let anecdotal individual stories sway your opinion.

 

 

 

(6) I fully support a mother seeking support and exhausting all other alternatives before doing something as drastic as abortion. But, having said that, it's not my choice to make, so It's important to note I'll not interject and make it for her. (not suggesting you would. Having your view on the issue is fine)

 

 

 

Let me go with that last point and ask everyone here this -> who feels they have the right to interject into the descision making process of a mother considering to abort and stop them from making such a descision because you have views different to them?

[johntm]

Abortion should only be available to rape victims. Period.

 

 

 

A why would be nice. Perhaps you could answer the question I posed in a previous post.

 

 

 

Which post?

 

 

 

And to your post above and may others that youve made speaking scientifically, SPEAK FREAKING ENGLISH.

 

 

 

Thank you for reading this. This thread is brought to you by my not yet adult brain and my finger tips.

[tripsis]

I'm 100% pro-choice. I believe that it's a personal decision that belongs to the 'mother' and 'father.' Meaning, I don't think that there should be laws against it.

 

 

 

Many people are saying things like, "It's their fault for having unprotected sex," and such. Well did anyone consider the fact that some women get pregnant even if they do use protection? There's still something like a 1-4% chance that you can get pregnant even if you do use the pill/condom/whatever. Sure, it's a low chance, but it does happen.

[johntm]

I'm 100% pro-choice. I believe that it's a personal decision that belongs to the 'mother' and 'father.' Meaning, I don't think that there should be laws against it.

 

 

 

Many people are saying things like, "It's their fault for having unprotected sex," and such. Well did anyone consider the fact that some women get pregnant even if they do use protection? There's still something like a 1-4% chance that you can get pregnant even if you do use the pill/condom/whatever. Sure, it's a low chance, but it does happen.

 

 

 

Shoudve taken that into consideration. Tsk Tsk Tsk. Like i said, rape victims should be the only people who get abortions, because they might not want a baby. Especially one who doesnt know the father, much less that hes a rapist.

[warri0r45]

Abortion should only be available to rape victims. Period.

 

 

 

A why would be nice. Perhaps you could answer the question I posed in a previous post.

 

 

 

Which post?

 

 

 

And to your post above and may others that youve made speaking scientifically, SPEAK FREAKING ENGLISH.

 

 

 

Thank you for reading this. This thread is brought to you by my not yet adult brain and my finger tips.

 

 

 

I was referring to this. I think you're smart enough to understand. If not, just google.

 

If someone would like to take me up on it, please tell me how an act which in no way effects you and effects the descision maker for the better is wrong (assuming, hypothetically, that the descision does in fact help the descision maker and eliminating all peripheral possibilities).

[WutangFlu]

Also if it threatens the mothers life, i think its sometimes denied to abort.

[fakeitormakeit]

Sir, please allow me to respond:

 

 

 

(1) Let's explore this notion by considering going back to the zygote level - the moment of fusion between sperm and egg. Still murder?

 

 

 

-To tell the truth I myself haven't really thought about it on the zygote level, please excuse me for excluding a window of time.

 

 

 

(2) Of course, you should think about it and not do anything, including the descision to abort, hastily.

 

 

 

-Nothing really to argue

 

 

 

(3) Of course, not a good enough excuse. But ask yourself, who actually uses this as an excuse to abort? I would have thought not many people or only those severely ignorant of the gravity of the situation they've got themselves in.

 

 

 

-Nothing to really to respond

 

 

 

(4) Good thing they're not that inhumane or barbaric anymore, yeah? If that actually does go on at all, which I seriously doubt it does, I'm apalled.

 

 

 

-Nothing to respond to, but I was diguisted by this and its not like this was an ancient practice this was after abortion was made legal in the United States.

 

 

 

(5) You shouldn't let anecdotal individual stories sway your opinion.

 

 

 

-I do not, I am , as said at the end of my post, firm on my beliefs, its just I was including the stories, to tell the truth I'm not one of those people who can share the pain of the people I don't know.

 

 

 

(6) I fully support a mother seeking support and exhausting all other alternatives before doing something as drastic as abortion. But, having said that, it's not my choice to make, so It's important to note I'll not interject and make it for her. (not suggesting you would. Having your view on the issue is fine)

 

 

 

-Nothing to say to that.

 

 

 

 

 

And can I just say I might not believe in all the same views as you but you along with I Goddess I are my tipit role models, her mostly for her physcology and you for your presentation of an arguement and information, your very persuasive and you present in such an understandable yet respectable manner.

[warri0r45]

Sir, please allow me to respond:

 

 

 

(1) Let's explore this notion by considering going back to the zygote level - the moment of fusion between sperm and egg. Still murder?

 

 

 

-To tell the truth I myself haven't really thought about it on the zygote level, please excuse me for excluding a window of time.

 

 

 

(2) Of course, you should think about it and not do anything, including the descision to abort, hastily.

 

 

 

-Nothing really to argue

 

 

 

(3) Of course, not a good enough excuse. But ask yourself, who actually uses this as an excuse to abort? I would have thought not many people or only those severely ignorant of the gravity of the situation they've got themselves in.

 

 

 

-Nothing to really to respond

 

 

 

(4) Good thing they're not that inhumane or barbaric anymore, yeah? If that actually does go on at all, which I seriously doubt it does, I'm apalled.

 

 

 

-Nothing to respond to, but I was diguisted by this and its not like this was an ancient practice this was after abortion was made legal in the United States.

 

 

 

(5) You shouldn't let anecdotal individual stories sway your opinion.

 

 

 

-I do not, I am , as said at the end of my post, firm on my beliefs, its just I was including the stories, to tell the truth I'm not one of those people who can share the pain of the people I don't know.

 

 

 

(6) I fully support a mother seeking support and exhausting all other alternatives before doing something as drastic as abortion. But, having said that, it's not my choice to make, so It's important to note I'll not interject and make it for her. (not suggesting you would. Having your view on the issue is fine)

 

 

 

-Nothing to say to that.

 

 

 

 

 

And can I just say I might not believe in all the same views as you but you along with I Goddess I are my tipit role models, her mostly for her physcology and you for your presentation of an arguement and information, your very persuasive and you present in such an understandable yet respectable manner.

 

 

 

Thanks. Good to see we can come to a consensus on some of these points. My position is to take it for what it is - a serious situation, and a serious situation requires serious thought and consideration. My view is just that the mother should not be denied options, no matter what they are or how controversial they may be. You are pro-life and that's fine by me.

[jaydee1]

ok i know i was hated on the last topic of this but most teens have there babies because of one thing when u go to hospital the docs say there is about 80% when u have an abortion you cant have kids when your older so most woman theses days end up having babies early because of mistake and have to keep them unless they dont want a baby when there older they will have an abortion

[limpbizkit]

Abortion is the way out for people who don't want to use a contraceptives (if thats the right word) and not take the consequences.

 

Only way's it should be legal is if the child is in the conditions of rape where the woman isn't given the choice. Or if the baby is going to be born so badly deformed and that.

[Mercifull]

Bringing up a child in an environment where there is no love and only regret then that is tantamount to child abuse.

 

 

 

Everyone is pro-life, its for or against abortion that you are opinionated about. Dont use loaded language in your arguments.

[assassin_696]

I'm pro-choice. I don't care if you do get an abortion or not because it's your right as an individual human being to make a descision which harms no-one else independant of me instructing you as to what I think you should do. And emotional harm because of pre-concieved beliefs is not harm. And, aborting a conglomeration of cells not yet with a differentiated nervous system is not harm. Take the emotion out of it and you may see things the same way.

 

 

 

I couldn't really put it much better myself, but i'll just elaborate a bit on my thoughts.

 

 

 

I'm completely pro-choice, but for me the difficult distinction is where to draw the line as to when you can have an abortion. I think the current law in the UK puts the limit up to 24 weeks, and i'm inclined to agree. I tend to draw the line when the foetus is capable of being supported outside of the mother's womb, i.e. is not dependent on the mother. I believe the current record for a premature baby is about 20 weeks. The problem (if it can be called that) is that medical science is rightly advancing all the time, so the limit is shrinking, perhaps to the point where the mother is almost made redundant.

 

 

 

But, I still believe people should have the choice, so here I think it's best to apply situation ethics to it, a concept Jesus emphasised (but did not create), so i'm surprised more Christians don't pick up on it. I think in some situations the most loving thing is to have an abortion, rape victims are a no-brainer, but if the child is going to suffer, other children are going to suffer, or the mother's mental health would be affected then an abortion should be readily available. That's actually the three main prerequisites for getting an abortion in the UK (plus getting two doctors to agree).

 

 

 

Here's the official guidelines for the 1967 abortion act, which I think work very well:

 

 

 

* To save the woman's life

 

* To prevent grave permanent injury to the woman's physical or mental health

 

* Under 28 weeks to avoid injury to the physical or mental health of the woman

 

* Under 28 weeks to avoid injury to the physical or mental health of the existing child(ren)

 

* If the child was likely to be severely physically or mentally handicapped

 

 

 

I don't particularly like the thought of abortions being used as a kind of advanced morning-after pill, but ultimately it's down to the individual. I do think the mother's decision should always take precedence though.

 

 

 

To all the pro-life lot, I'll say this. On the face of it, your opinion may seem right, but I emplore you to consider this. No matter what the law is, people will always seek abortions. And if abortions are illegal these abortions will turn into back-alley abortions, which can be very dangerous. Like with a lot of things, if you make aboriton illegal you'll suffer the consequences by driving it underground, and you won't stop it.

[Sumpta]

On the whole, I agree with assassin.

 

 

 

From a rational point of view, there isn't any viable reason why a woman (and her partner) shouldn't have the right to decide if she wants to give birth or not. A heap of cells does not equal a life.

 

 

 

From an emotional point of view, things are a lot more difficult. As an adult woman, I've had my share of "baby scares". To all of you out there screaming about "protecting yourself": protection, in the form of condom and/or anticonception medication, isn't fully safeproof. Every single sexually active woman goes through scares. As an 18-year-old student, I definitely would have gone for an abortion (and wept for days on end as a result, mind you). But as a 25-year-old with a job, I don't think I'd have the heart, even if I'd have to be a single mother.

 

 

 

Turning this discussion roundabout, some people do not understand women who don't do abortion. Like in the case of teen pregnancies. On an emotional and both physical level, I can understand women who decide to keep their child. It's not just about not committing murder. Both men's and women's bodies are programmed to procreate - for example, women are notorious for craving sex during their fertile days of the month. So once you're pregnant, your body and mind go into "yeah! we're having a baby"-mode. This makes it even harder to commit the cold and rational act of deciding to abort. I really can't judge any woman deciding to keep her child, even if it's handicapped, inconvenient, the result of youthless carelessness or even born out of rape (though I shudder to think of that). However, I do judge her when her sole reason for having it, is her religion...