Soft Drugs: What gives?

[justin_m23]

 

The Beatles experiemented with marajuana (thanks to Dylan :P ), acid and im sure other things - go tell them that drugs didn't make things better in the long run ($$$$). After all we now have some of the greatest and most inspirational music ever created.

 

So your saying drugs wrote those hits? Not the years of experience with music? Yeah, okay, sure.

 

 

 

In my opinion, legalizing marijuana would be legalizing stupidity. The 'dope smokers' of my year at school, whether they were intelligent or not, are far worse off intellectually now then they were before. Don't even try and tell me you can't tell the difference between a pot head and someone who doesn't use marijuana on a regular basis. By regular, i mean as frequently as someone would use alcohol.

 

 

 

Speaking of alcohol, I think the your argument that marijuana is less addictive is pointless. I, even though i am effected by alcohol at this moment, think that alcohol shouldn't have been legalized either. It provides more harm then good, and is abused by many teens because it is socially accepted by everyone, including their parents.

 

 

 

Imagine how many pot heads would be around if it was legalized? There would be as many as there are underage drinkers. School grades would be down. University/collage attendance would be down. Society - stupid.

 

 

 

We already have alcohol as a legalized problem, why make another?

 

 

 

P.s. Hopefully I'll read over this tomorrow and edit.

[Satenza]

 

The Beatles experiemented with marajuana (thanks to Dylan :P ), acid and im sure other things - go tell them that drugs didn't make things better in the long run ($$$$). After all we now have some of the greatest and most inspirational music ever created.

 

So your saying drugs wrote those hits? Not the years of experience with music? Yeah, okay, sure.

 

 

 

 

Combining factors.

[mr_tyrer]

ive had my fair of drugs, i wouldnt class LSD as a soft drug though i only ever had 1 'trip' and it was definetly a bad 1 i would never take 1 of those things again even if someone offerd me a lot of money lol.

[darkmage099]

Reasons I don't do drugs:

 

1. It's expensive, and I don't have the money to spend...and if I did, I would consider it a waste.

 

 

 

2. It's punishable by law. I don't want to have anything on my record if somehow I do get caught.

 

 

 

3. It's not "cool". Seriously, at my school MJ and that stuff is only for stoners and ultra-preps not the regular kids, the smart kids, or the preppy kids (although most of the preppy kids are dealers they dont do it themselves).

 

 

 

4. I dont want to fund drugs and the growing of drugs.

 

 

 

5. Already addicted to WoW :?

[venomai]

Some drugs are natural. Cigarrettes* aren't, and neither is most alcahol*

 

There's a big difference between "naturally occurring" and "natural". Tobacco, psilocybin mushrooms and cannabis are all naturally occurring plants/fungi... But they are manufactured in non-natural conditions and are often sprayed with certain chemicals to increase their potency. I wouldn't consider a hundred planets in the basement of some sketchy guy's apartment, all being sprayed and lit up by man-made technology, a "natural" thing.

 

 

 

Besides, many natural things are very dangerous, and many man-made things are very helpful. Nature is a really poor pro-drug argument.

 

 

 

To the OP, have you ever considered the long term effects of these drugs? It seems like your just living in the present from your posts, and have only considered your health at present. There are long term effects, I hope you know, especially in terms of mental illness later in life from smoking pot during your teenage years, and early 20's. :wink:

 

Yes, I've covered some of those problems in my OP (although, agreeably, I should have included more information).

 

 

 

There's no doubt that smoking marijuana is harmful (from my research I consider it more harmful than LSD/psilocybin) and it has proven to damage the lungs. However, there has been no conclusive evidence linking it to lung cancer, and it is not thought to cause emphysema. One recent study shows that heavy and "long-term marijuana use was linked to lung problems including coughing, wheeze, chest tightness, and airflow obstruction."[1]

 

 

 

As for mental illness, as you were saying, this is the real issue. I've outlined it in my original post. It's really hard to find conclusive evidence on the matter. For example, this recent article on CNN shows that "Marijuana may increase psychosis risk, analysis says". Then, in the article, they admit that:

 

The researchers said they couldn't prove that marijuana use itself increases the risk of psychosis, a category of several disorders with schizophrenia being the most commonly known.

 

 

 

Which contradicts their original statements. :-k

 

 

 

Personally, I think there is no doubt that psychosis is common in long-term and/or heavy users of marijuana. But I think many of the individuals struck by these illnesses have had a history (or a family history) of mental issues. I'm neither a heavy pot smoker nor am I mentally unhealthy (and my family has no history of mental illness).

 

 

 

However, feel free to prove me wrong. I'm always on the search for more conclusive evidence on the subject.

 

 

 

its less addicted than caffeine, and thats a proven scientific FACT

 

Physically, yes... But things can still be mentally addictive. The mind is a powerful thing. Those with "weak" minds (susceptible to illness), those with addictive personalities, or those with a history of illness are likely to encounter problems (often addiction) when smoking marijuana. Many people do get addicted to marijuana, and have to go to rehab and therapy.

 

 

 

Your friend most likely has a non-addictive personality which allows him to easily quit. See my OP for details and sources.

 

 

 

I smoked over 5 or 6 years and i didn't find it easy to quit. Although i had to quit because of my schizophrenia. I didn't really want to quit. I know quite a thing or two about canabis [heh, that's ironic]. That it is less addictive then caffeine doesn't mean it isn't addictive at all.

 

As I've said... Most of the addiction is mental, and it's very easy for some people to become mentally addicted.

 

 

 

Although it's also entirely likely that the tobacco in your joints could have been a cause for your addiction. In North America, it's not too common to put tobacco in a joint. Lots of the stuff over here tends to be weaker -- we need more of it in each joint to compensate.

 

 

 

 

 

The 'dope smokers' of my year at school, whether they were intelligent or not, are far worse off intellectually now then they were before. Don't even try and tell me you can't tell the difference between a pot head and someone who doesn't use marijuana on a regular basis. By regular, i mean as frequently as someone would use alcohol.

 

A pothead is a self-identified stereotype who usually lacks motivation and was never very bright to begin with. The whole "smoking pot makes you dumb" is a stereotype.

 

 

 

Imagine how many pot heads would be around if it was legalized? There would be as many as there are underage drinkers. School grades would be down. University/collage attendance would be down. Society - stupid.

 

From your own observations we can conclude that, even though it's illegal, nothing is stopping the self-identified and stereotypical potheads at your school from smoking marijuana.

 

If weed was legalized they would be the ones smoking more and doing worse at school. However, this doesn't the rest of society would be inclined to act like them.

 

 

 

It's hard to believe, but there is an entire community of marijuana smokers who are extremely intellectual and who do very well at school, college and university.

 

 

 

Speaking of alcohol, I think the your argument that marijuana is less addictive is pointless. I, even though i am effected by alcohol at this moment, think that alcohol shouldn't have been legalized either. It provides more harm then good, and is abused by many teens because it is socially accepted by everyone, including their parents.

 

Banning alcohol would be pointless. Kids would still get alcohol, just like we're still getting marijuana. However, legalizing alcohol and marijuana at younger ages (take the Netherlands for example) releases the pressures involved with teen substance abuse and would, in the long run, reduce problems in youth.

 

 

 

Cannabis use among young people has also increased in most Western European countries and in the US. The rate of (cannabis) use among young people in the US is much higher than in the Netherlands, and Great Britain and Ireland also have relatively larger numbers of school students who use cannabis.

 

 

 

The figures for cannabis use among the general population reveal the same pictures. The Netherlands does not differ greatly from other European countries. In contrast, a comparison with the US shows a striking difference in this area: 32.9% of Americans aged 12 and above have experience with cannabis and 5.1% have used in the past month. These figures are twice as high as those in the Netherlands.

 

 

 

Source: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/thenethe.htm

[baron8000]

I'm going to go for the "provided it doesn't hurt others do whatever the hell you like to yourself" stance.

 

 

 

If you need drugs to make you feel good, go for it, I don't so I don't use them. Simple really.

[venomai]

Reasons I don't do drugs:

 

1. It's expensive, and I don't have the money to spend...and if I did, I would consider it a waste.

 

 

 

2. It's punishable by law. I don't want to have anything on my record if somehow I do get caught.

 

 

 

3. It's not "cool". Seriously, at my school MJ and that stuff is only for stoners and ultra-preps not the regular kids, the smart kids, or the preppy kids (although most of the preppy kids are dealers they dont do it themselves).

 

 

 

4. I dont want to fund drugs and the growing of drugs.

 

 

 

5. Already addicted to WoW :?

 

1. I spend less money per month on drugs than you spend on your World of Warcraft membership. :-s

 

 

 

2. Understandable. :)

 

 

 

3. Potheads are just stereotypes. Lots of normal, intelligent people smoke marijuana and use hallucinogens. They don't do it to be "cool". It's often used as a mind-expanding drug and can change your life in a positive manner. Drugs often allow you to enter a state of consciousness that you otherwise wouldn't be able to experience.

 

 

 

Lots of responsible and intelligent drug users have to hide their use to the general public because they know that society currently doesn't approve (for whatever reason).

 

 

 

4. I guess you've never heard of a hospital... Drugs save lives every day. :-k

 

 

 

5. Fun game. :

[darkmage099]

Reasons I don't do drugs:

 

1. It's expensive, and I don't have the money to spend...and if I did, I would consider it a waste.

 

 

 

2. It's punishable by law. I don't want to have anything on my record if somehow I do get caught.

 

 

 

3. It's not "cool". Seriously, at my school MJ and that stuff is only for stoners and ultra-preps not the regular kids, the smart kids, or the preppy kids (although most of the preppy kids are dealers they dont do it themselves).

 

 

 

4. I dont want to fund drugs and the growing of drugs.

 

 

 

5. Already addicted to WoW :?

 

1. I spend less money per month on drugs than you spend on your World of Warcraft membership. :-s

 

 

 

2. Understandable. :)

 

 

 

3. Potheads are just stereotypes. Lots of normal, intelligent people smoke marijuana and use hallucinogens. They don't do it to be "cool". It's often used as a mind-expanding drug and can change your life in a positive manner. Drugs often allow you to enter a state of consciousness that you otherwise wouldn't be able to experience.

 

 

 

Lots of responsible and intelligent drug users have to hide their use to the general public because they know that society currently doesn't approve (for whatever reason).

 

 

 

4. I guess you've never heard of a hospital... Drugs save lives every day. :-k

 

 

 

5. Fun game. :

 

 

 

1. $15 isn't going to get you a month supply of drugs. Don't even kid.

 

 

 

2. :)

 

 

 

3. But the fact that it is frowned upon by society (for whatever reason is irrelevant. Also, yes I am influenced by society's do's and dont's so shoot me) is a reason influencing my decision not to do it.

 

 

 

My mind is expanded enough at this point.

 

 

 

4. Not those type of drugs! I don't want to fund Columbians and Venezuelans who grow these things.

[assassin_696]

 

The Beatles experiemented with marajuana (thanks to Dylan :P ), acid and im sure other things - go tell them that drugs didn't make things better in the long run ($$$$). After all we now have some of the greatest and most inspirational music ever created.

 

So your saying drugs wrote those hits? Not the years of experience with music? Yeah, okay, sure.

 

 

 

Have you ever listened to Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds? Years of experience with music...yeah right :P

[Mountdoom77]

Soft drugs or not. They're still horrible for you and i think most teenagers/kids do it to get away from their life.

 

 

 

Don't do drugs. Period.

[Adam007]

Soft drugs or not. They're still horrible for you and i think most teenagers/kids do it to get away from their life.

 

 

 

Don't do drugs. Period.

 

I'm not going to pick a side, but what bothers me the most on debates like this is the few people who chime in just repeating what they learned in DARE. The, "it's immoral and bad for you! You must be an idiot to try that stuff!" Anything is bad for you if you have too much of it. It just bothers me that people with no idea what they're talking about run in on things like they're the moral authority because they learned DARE government funded propaganda, shouting "Just say no!" as if they know something nobody else does. I'm not saying you're completely wrong, just that you're doing a lot of stereotypical generalizing.

[Nom]

 

The Beatles experiemented with marajuana (thanks to Dylan :P ), acid and im sure other things - go tell them that drugs didn't make things better in the long run ($$$$). After all we now have some of the greatest and most inspirational music ever created.

 

So your saying drugs wrote those hits? Not the years of experience with music? Yeah, okay, sure.

 

 

 

In my opinion, legalizing marijuana would be legalizing stupidity. The 'dope smokers' of my year at school, whether they were intelligent or not, are far worse off intellectually now then they were before. Don't even try and tell me you can't tell the difference between a pot head and someone who doesn't use marijuana on a regular basis. By regular, i mean as frequently as someone would use alcohol.

 

 

 

Speaking of alcohol, I think the your argument that marijuana is less addictive is pointless. I, even though i am effected by alcohol at this moment, think that alcohol shouldn't have been legalized either. It provides more harm then good, and is abused by many teens because it is socially accepted by everyone, including their parents.

 

 

 

Imagine how many pot heads would be around if it was legalized? There would be as many as there are underage drinkers. School grades would be down. University/collage attendance would be down. Society - stupid.

 

 

 

We already have alcohol as a legalized problem, why make another?

 

 

 

P.s. Hopefully I'll read over this tomorrow and edit.

 

 

 

Don't take stances like this unless you actually know what you're talking about. I spent a whole semester researching into the benefits of legalizing marjuana in order to present it in a debate against the opposition. Needless to say we owned them.

 

 

 

Here are our main points:

 

 

 

1. The health effects. This is the most talked about point on this thread so far, and for good reason. Marijuana is not addictive, and it is less far less harmful than other drugs (being a "soft drug"). There has never been a death resulting from marijuana use.

 

 

 

2. Crime. Think prohibition. You say alcohol is bad and it should be illegal like marijuana. Pay attention in history class, will you? Prohibition was a bad era for the U.S. The crime rate went drastcially up because of bootleggers and speakeasies, and alcohol also became more dangerous. This is the exact same case as with marijuana. Illegal as it is now, there are enormous crime rings dedicated to selling pot underground. These dealers have absolute control over the price of marijuana, and as a result they drive it high in order to make maximum profit. Therefore someone who wants to buy it is being gouged, and run out of money fast. They can resort to stealing for the money, therefore resulting in more crime.

 

 

 

3. Government resources. Our jails are extremely overcrowded. Many of the people sitting in jail are there for drug use or dealing. Were marijuana legalized, they wouldn't be. Plain and simple. There would be no reason for these underground drug rings to exist, and nobody would be stealing to get money for the drugs. And best of all, the government can be using the freed resources to focus on crime that is actually worth dealing with.

 

 

 

4. Taxation. With marijuana legalized, the government can tax it. The government can save 10 to 14 billion dollars by taxing the marijuana legally and not spending resources busting people for using it illegally. Not much more to be said here.

 

 

 

5. Safety. With the government in control of the marijuana supply, they can control its content. Do you realize that illegally trafficked marijuana can contain substances more potent than the drug itself? Additionally, THC, the psycoactive drug in marijuana that causes the highs and most of the damage, can be regulated. The level of THC in marijuana can be enormously high without the dealers knowing or caring.

 

 

 

6. Medicine. Marijuana is a potent pain reliever and is a unique one for several conditions. Not much more to be said here, either.

 

 

 

As you can see, I have researched this extensively. My research focused on marijuana, but the rest of the drugs have similar cases. Marijuana would be much better off legalized.

 

 

 

EDIT: Not bad for a 200th post :XD: \

[IGoddessI]

I've already studied drugs and substance abuse etc so if anyone wants to know any certain questions about drugs you can always send me a PM, I don't mind discussing it (unless it's statistics related outside of Australia).

 

 

 

Well i got schizophrenia triggered partly by smoking pot (i smoked awfully much though. like really, really much). It's not without it's dangers. Most important thing about drugs imo is that you don't start using them more then occassionally. It should be an experience and not a continious state.

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

especially in terms of mental illness later in life from smoking pot during your teenage years, and early 20's.

 

 

 

 

 

The evidence that cannabis can cause psychosis that persists when the drug is stopped is not very strong (Hall et al. 1994) and cannot be explained by the known pharmacology of the drug. In the case of a user with a pre-existing schizophrenic condition, cannabis may bring out a schizophrenic episode that might not otherwise have occurred, or might have occurred at a later date. Using cannabis will not cause mental illness. It may, however, precipitate or exacerbate an already existing mental instability Drug use: Preventing harm, Oxford University Press (2004).

 

 

 

What about flashbacks? If memory serves me, both cannabis related drugs and LSD comes with the risk of flashbacks occuring a long time after consumption has stopped.

 

 

 

A friend of mine had a flash back from LSD 3 months after use. He saw a black shadow in the field suggesting he come over and ran in to the bush. My friend skipped down this "field" which was actually a main high way and was hit by a car, luckily he survived.

 

 

 

If anyone wants to know the nitty gritty of why flash backs happen you can PM me.

 

 

 

-- Edited for all my great spelling mistakes for a 4am post.

[Led-Zeppelin]

Don't take stances like this unless you actually know what you're talking about. I spent a whole semester researching into the benefits of legalizing marjuana in order to present it in a debate against the opposition. Needless to say we owned them.

 

 

 

Here are our main points:

 

 

 

1. The health effects. This is the most talked about point on this thread so far, and for good reason. Marijuana is not addictive, and it is less far less harmful than other drugs (being a "soft drug"). There has never been a death resulting from marijuana use.

 

 

 

2. Crime. Think prohibition. You say alcohol is bad and it should be illegal like marijuana. Pay attention in history class, will you? Prohibition was a bad era for the U.S. The crime rate went drastcially up because of bootleggers and speakeasies, and alcohol also became more dangerous. This is the exact same case as with marijuana. Illegal as it is now, there are enormous crime rings dedicated to selling pot underground. These dealers have absolute control over the price of marijuana, and as a result they drive it high in order to make maximum profit. Therefore someone who wants to buy it is being gouged, and run out of money fast. They can resort to stealing for the money, therefore resulting in more crime.

 

 

 

3. Government resources. Our jails are extremely overcrowded. Many of the people sitting in jail are there for drug use or dealing. Were marijuana legalized, they wouldn't be. Plain and simple. There would be no reason for these underground drug rings to exist, and nobody would be stealing to get money for the drugs. And best of all, the government can be using the freed resources to focus on crime that is actually worth dealing with.

 

 

 

4. Taxation. With marijuana legalized, the government can tax it. The government can save 10 to 14 billion dollars by taxing the marijuana legally and not spending resources busting people for using it illegally. Not much more to be said here.

 

 

 

5. Safety. With the government in control of the marijuana supply, they can control its content. Do you realize that illegally trafficked marijuana can contain substances more potent than the drug itself? Additionally, THC, the psycoactive drug in marijuana that causes the highs and most of the damage, can be regulated. The level of THC in marijuana can be enormously high without the dealers knowing or caring.

 

 

 

6. Medicine. Marijuana is a potent pain reliever and is a unique one for several conditions. Not much more to be said here, either.

 

 

 

As you can see, I have researched this extensively. My research focused on marijuana, but the rest of the drugs have similar cases. Marijuana would be much better off legalized.

 

 

 

EDIT: Not bad for a 200th post :XD: \

 

 

 

I luff you. All very good points, and oh so true!

[willysp]

I think it would be good if they legfalized marijuana cuz then the government could control its market.

 

 

 

Plus its not addicting, and a lot less harmfull than the other garbage that is legal in america (Alcohal, Ciggerettes, Fast Food)

 

 

 

My view is the only people who think its bad are the people who have never tried it.

 

 

 

I used to think marijuana was the worst thing ever and just touching it would get me addicting to it and then before i knew it id be addicted to coke.

 

 

 

Here I am, still not addicted to anything, and i still wont touch any of the hard drugs.

 

 

 

I dont smoke it anymore, but it was nice to be able to come home after a stressfull day and sit back toke up, and play my computer.

[Guest]

Haha reading this thread again made me remember the time I strangely sniffed new tennis balls (you know the ones you get out of a can), where I smelt them and held my breath for a few seconds and it seemed like I left my body, I was trippin.' Don't ask me why I did it, its probably the gayest thing to do, but it was a strange experience when I was bored one day by myself. :lol: 8-) :P

[hellbellz]

Hahahaha! I just owned Skili in an arguement of this. He actually kb'd me from #tip-it because he knew he was wrong and I was right. :lol:

 

 

 

My arguments and what not.

 

 

 

 

 

"No one has ever overdosed on Marijuana. Actually smoking it and dieing

 

And you can overdose on alcohol. why is it legal, then?".

 

 

 

<%I_S_K_1_L_I> over smoking marijuana speeds up the process of lun cancer, blood clots etc.

 

<%I_S_K_1_L_I> but you can die from smoking large ammounts

 

 

 

Two things. Lung cancer, blood clots, whatever. Those are long term effects and not instant. And no; you can't.

 

 

 

 

 

<+Jim|Barrows> marijuana is equivalent to 5 cigs

 

 

 

The only thing is that you won't smoke the equivlent of 2 packs of cigarettes a day in one day, maybe not even in a month.

 

 

 

<+Jim|Barrows> a friend of a friend smoked weed, bam. hit by truck. dead.

 

 

 

Sorry to hear about that Jim, but that was not directly related to the actual smoking of marijuana.

 

 

 

<%I_S_K_1_L_I> alchohol.

 

<%I_S_K_1_L_I> well marijuana is worse..

 

 

 

Here's a chart showing the death rate from Marijuana, legal drugs, aspirin, etc. http://s97.photobucket.com/albums/l208/ ... deaths.jpg I think not, Skili. Alcohol is more addictive than marijuana in most cases.

 

 

 

 

<%I_S_K_1_L_I> NOONE RESPONSIBLY USES DRUGS IDIOT>

 

People actually use drugs responsibly. Alcohol and cigarettes. Not everyone is addicted to those. Also caffiene, I believe that's more addictive than marijuana.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, i had to edit out some curse words. So I put this in here so I don't do it aggresivly over irc. No offense to you Skili, if you did even do as I asked and read the topic. Have some arguments in your arsenal.

 

This is intended for Skili, no one else really.

[BlueTear]

1. The health effects. This is the most talked about point on this thread so far, and for good reason. Marijuana is not addictive, and it is less far less harmful than other drugs (being a "soft drug"). There has never been a death resulting from marijuana use.

 

 

 

2. Crime. Think prohibition. You say alcohol is bad and it should be illegal like marijuana. Pay attention in history class, will you? Prohibition was a bad era for the U.S. The crime rate went drastcially up because of bootleggers and speakeasies, and alcohol also became more dangerous. This is the exact same case as with marijuana. Illegal as it is now, there are enormous crime rings dedicated to selling pot underground. These dealers have absolute control over the price of marijuana, and as a result they drive it high in order to make maximum profit. Therefore someone who wants to buy it is being gouged, and run out of money fast. They can resort to stealing for the money, therefore resulting in more crime.

I'm quite perplexed by your reasoning.

 

 

 

First you state that marijuana not addictive. We'll treat this statement like we're talking about a new pair of pants. Now, unless I suffer from some weirdass disorder, I'm not going to be addicted to buying new pants.

 

 

 

Therefor, as a - relatively speaking - well-adapted individual in modern society, if I found a pair of pants I want that I couldn't afford, I would not engage in illicit activities to make the money to get said pair of pants. Stealing to be able to afford a new pair of pants I want just isn't an option; If I can't afford it, I don't buy it. I don't get any new pants.

 

 

 

Waitamainute, you say, we're talking about marijuana here! Oh right you are.

 

 

 

So if I'm such an intelligent well-adapted individual who just likes to experience an higher state of mind, and who is absolutetly not addicted to any kind of drugs ohno, why can't I do like normal people do when they can't afford something; not buy it?

 

 

 

See where I'm going here? Connecting crime rates with marijuana because marijuana is expensive is a ridicolous idea; The reason why junkies steal is because the need for the drug is bigger both than their personal economy and their ability to withstand not having the drug because they couldn't afford a new fix. If you're not addicted - assuming you have no other faults - being without the drug until you *can* afford to buy is not a problem. In short, you're making a contradictory argument.

 

 

 

Secondly, a substance not being addictive means you can quit, it doesn't mean that while you use it - and I'm not just meaning the high's - that loosely quantified thing we'll call "intelligence" goes down. Which is what the guy you quoted was commenting on, and IIRC is a proven fact of marijuana use. Call me silly, but isn't this a bloody bad thing rather than something that can be brushed of by noting "well, once they quit, their intelligence will return back to normal, and quitting is easy!"

 

 

 

Oh, and about "maximizing their profits", just why the heck do you believe any legal venture to sell marijuana would - in a modern capitalistic society - not go in for maximizing their profits in turn?

 

 

 

3. Government resources. Our jails are extremely overcrowded. Many of the people sitting in jail are there for drug use or dealing. Were marijuana legalized, they wouldn't be. Plain and simple. There would be no reason for these underground drug rings to exist, and nobody would be stealing to get money for the drugs. And best of all, the government can be using the freed resources to focus on crime that is actually worth dealing with.

Mate, I'm not going to claim to have statistics on how many of the people in american jails for drug dealing went in for dealing in marijuana and only marijuana, but I'm more than willing to claim that the drugloards in south america with a budget larger than the nations they live in do not gain their ridicolous amounts of money from selling pot. Now, this thing called cocaine on the other hand... Underground drug rings would not magically dissappear. (And again with the stealing.)

 

5. Safety. With the government in control of the marijuana supply, they can control its content. Do you realize that illegally trafficked marijuana can contain substances more potent than the drug itself? Additionally, THC, the psycoactive drug in marijuana that causes the highs and most of the damage, can be regulated. The level of THC in marijuana can be enormously high without the dealers knowing or caring.

That ever killed anyone or caused any kind of harmful effects?

6. Medicine. Marijuana is a potent pain reliever and is a unique one for several conditions. Not much more to be said here, either.

Has no bearing on actually legalizing marijuana for recreational use, just legalizing for medical use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And I'd still like more on the flashback thing... Surely any drug that can cause a perceptual distortion at a random time, random place doing a random thing makes it hard to argue anything involving "safe usage in your own home", 'cause you can have a flashback while doing something completely different. There you are, cheerfully driving a bus because you happen to be a busdriver. Oh no, LSD flashback. Oops.

 

 

 

edit:

People actually use drugs responsibly. Alcohol and cigarettes. Not everyone is addicted to those.

So you're telling me there's actually smokers who aren't addicted to nicotine?

 

 

 

Where?

[Futurama]

Some of my mates did weed this friday. It turned them into dribbling gorms, they kept buggering off to once place or another for most of the night, and they seemed to stop caring if they were being [bleep] or not. 2 of them ended up lieing around on the floor most of the night and one threw up. I think with the right people it can be fine, but from my experiences both this week and in the past, it tends to turn people into complete and utter cretins. Yup, this is a small group of people who arn't used to it, but if it's like that for all the people who start smoking it, i'd rather not be around them all night, hah.

[Nom]

1. The health effects. This is the most talked about point on this thread so far, and for good reason. Marijuana is not addictive, and it is less far less harmful than other drugs (being a "soft drug"). There has never been a death resulting from marijuana use.

 

 

 

2. Crime. Think prohibition. You say alcohol is bad and it should be illegal like marijuana. Pay attention in history class, will you? Prohibition was a bad era for the U.S. The crime rate went drastcially up because of bootleggers and speakeasies, and alcohol also became more dangerous. This is the exact same case as with marijuana. Illegal as it is now, there are enormous crime rings dedicated to selling pot underground. These dealers have absolute control over the price of marijuana, and as a result they drive it high in order to make maximum profit. Therefore someone who wants to buy it is being gouged, and run out of money fast. They can resort to stealing for the money, therefore resulting in more crime.

I'm quite perplexed by your reasoning.

 

 

 

First you state that marijuana not addictive. We'll treat this statement like we're talking about a new pair of pants. Now, unless I suffer from some weirdass disorder, I'm not going to be addicted to buying new pants.

 

 

 

Therefor, as a - relatively speaking - well-adapted individual in modern society, if I found a pair of pants I want that I couldn't afford, I would not engage in illicit activities to make the money to get said pair of pants. Stealing to be able to afford a new pair of pants I want just isn't an option; If I can't afford it, I don't buy it. I don't get any new pants.

 

 

 

Waitamainute, you say, we're talking about marijuana here! Oh right you are.

 

 

 

So if I'm such an intelligent well-adapted individual who just likes to experience an higher state of mind, and who is absolutetly not addicted to any kind of drugs ohno, why can't I do like normal people do when they can't afford something; not buy it?

 

 

 

See where I'm going here? Connecting crime rates with marijuana because marijuana is expensive is a ridicolous idea; The reason why junkies steal is because the need for the drug is bigger both than their personal economy and their ability to withstand not having the drug because they couldn't afford a new fix. If you're not addicted - assuming you have no other faults - being without the drug until you *can* afford to buy is not a problem. In short, you're making a contradictory argument.

 

 

 

Secondly, a substance not being addictive means you can quit, it doesn't mean that while you use it - and I'm not just meaning the high's - that loosely quantified thing we'll call "intelligence" goes down. Which is what the guy you quoted was commenting on, and IIRC is a proven fact of marijuana use. Call me silly, but isn't this a bloody bad thing rather than something that can be brushed of by noting "well, once they quit, their intelligence will return back to normal, and quitting is easy!"

 

 

 

Oh, and about "maximizing their profits", just why the heck do you believe any legal venture to sell marijuana would - in a modern capitalistic society - not go in for maximizing their profits in turn?

 

 

 

5. Safety. With the government in control of the marijuana supply, they can control its content. Do you realize that illegally trafficked marijuana can contain substances more potent than the drug itself? Additionally, THC, the psycoactive drug in marijuana that causes the highs and most of the damage, can be regulated. The level of THC in marijuana can be enormously high without the dealers knowing or caring.

That ever killed anyone or caused any kind of harmful effects?

 

 

 

Therein lies my meaning. Marijuana is not addictive in itself, but the substances that can be in it as a result of being bandied about by drug dealers can be, and they are also most likely more harmful than marijuana. I'm not saying that nobody has ever experienced harmful effect from smoking marijuana, but the reason that they do is traced back to dealers. With marijuana legalized, these substances would not be in marijuana, therfore not causing their harmful effects, including addiction.

 

 

 

And the government will try to maximize their profits, but the sheer number of people who use marijuana will in essence do it for them, so they won't need to make prices rediculously high as they are now when buying from dealers.

 

 

 

3. Government resources. Our jails are extremely overcrowded. Many of the people sitting in jail are there for drug use or dealing. Were marijuana legalized, they wouldn't be. Plain and simple. There would be no reason for these underground drug rings to exist, and nobody would be stealing to get money for the drugs. And best of all, the government can be using the freed resources to focus on crime that is actually worth dealing with.

Mate, I'm not going to claim to have statistics on how many of the people in american jails for drug dealing went in for dealing in marijuana and only marijuana, but I'm more than willing to claim that the drugloards in south america with a budget larger than the nations they live in do not gain their ridicolous amounts of money from selling pot. Now, this thing called cocaine on the other hand... Underground drug rings would not magically dissappear. (And again with the stealing.)

 

 

 

Drug rings would not completely disappear, no, but you're reading what I said literally and without thinking about it. With legal marijuana, the market for illegal marijuana would disappear, and that's one less thing for the government to deal with. And it would go a long way to getting rid of other drug markets as well. Save those who are already addicted, who would rather use cocaine illegally and risk being in trouble with the law than use marijuana perfectly legally and with less detrimental effects? They would still be able to experience their high or whatever, so there would be no desire to go after the hard drugs that are still illegal.

 

 

 

6. Medicine. Marijuana is a potent pain reliever and is a unique one for several conditions. Not much more to be said here, either.

Has no bearing on actually legalizing marijuana for recreational use, just legalizing for medical use.

 

 

 

But it furthers the argument that marijuana is not in the same league as hard drugs, and is better off legalized.

[BlueLancer]

Soft drugs or not. They're still horrible for you and i think most teenagers/kids do it to get away from their life.

 

 

 

Don't do drugs. Period.

 

I'm not going to pick a side, but what bothers me the most on debates like this is the few people who chime in just repeating what they learned in DARE. The, "it's immoral and bad for you! You must be an idiot to try that stuff!" Anything is bad for you if you have too much of it. It just bothers me that people with no idea what they're talking about run in on things like they're the moral authority because they learned DARE government funded propaganda, shouting "Just say no!" as if they know something nobody else does. I'm not saying you're completely wrong, just that you're doing a lot of stereotypical generalizing.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more with this post. While I'm generally against drug use (and absolutely 100% against hard-drugs such as heroine/cocaine/LSD which shouldn't become legal ever). N0M_AN0R seems like one with enough knowledge in this subject.

 

 

 

I'm not a qualified person to comment on soft drugs like Marijuana. Heck, I know some cultures even use Marijuana as a medical herb. "Just say no". How's that? Cigarettes have hundreds of toxics which make marijuana look like a vitamin pill.

 

 

 

Anything overexcessive is bad for your health. Kids want to try this, try that... They try alcohol, they can try cigarettes, and in rare cases, drugs. If they're hard drugs, it's absolutely 100% bad because

 

 

 

1. They cost an awful lot, way more than can be a sustainable cost for a teenager, can lead to crime in order to obtain drugs

 

2. They can cause severe nerve damage and are guaranteed to build physical addiction.

 

 

 

Soft drugs like Marijuana... I can't say what's so horrendous about it if compared to say, alcohol and cigarettes. It may give you a state of "high" but it certainly causes less deaths every year than cigarettes.

 

 

 

I don't advocate any drugs (I don't even smoke or drink personally), I'm just saying don't trust everything you hear and see. The government doesn't care about your health benefits. If they did, cigarettes would be outlawed. They care about not being able to tax drugs.

[martinisback]

Venomai:

 

 

 

YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, cannabis is less harmful then ciggies and alchol, so that means I should do it!...........NOT

 

 

 

Pot head, their is a problem with these drugs. Their harmful, no matter wats more harmful, they are harmful. Just don't do it anymore, its not cool, it'll make you slow everywhere, and make you look like a tomato

[Nero]

Venomai:

 

 

 

YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, cannabis is less harmful then ciggies and alchol, so that means I should do it!...........NOT

 

 

 

Pot head, their is a problem with these drugs. Their harmful, no matter wats more harmful, they are harmful. Just don't do it anymore, its not cool, it'll make you slow everywhere, and make you look like a tomato

 

 

 

Judging by your typing I would conclude that you sir, are the pothead.

 

He's not saying "Hey everyone! Go smoke some pot!!". He's merely providing information and facts so that people can see it would be more beneficial to legalize the mentioned "soft drugs" and have them taxed and regulated by the government (though I don't agree with legalizing LSD).

 

Have you ever even tried cannabis? You really shouldn't argue a point in a debate if you don't even know what you're talking about.

 

Oh yes and Adam said something very good:

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to pick a side, but what bothers me the most on debates like this is the few people who chime in just repeating what they learned in DARE. The, "it's immoral and bad for you! You must be an idiot to try that stuff!" Anything is bad for you if you have too much of it. It just bothers me that people with no idea what they're talking about run in on things like they're the moral authority because they learned DARE government funded propaganda, shouting "Just say no!" as if they know something nobody else does. I'm not saying you're completely wrong, just that you're doing a lot of stereotypical generalizing.

 

 

 

Sounds like you Martin!

[zach6688]

Most people are brainwashed by society to think that marijuana is a harmful substance that makes you act stupid. You'll have a hard time convincing people on a message board to think outside the box a little and not listen to their teachers/commercials so much. I'm a heavy marijuana user, and I also work and go to school, smoking marijuana doesn't make me a deviant. I smoke for the same reason some people take anxiety or stress medication. Marijuana helps me deal with the stress and anxiety life puts me through. In my opinion, if we we're truly free, we should be able to put whatever substances in our body we want to, as long as it's not hurting others.

[BlueTear]

Therein lies my meaning. Marijuana is not addictive in itself, but the substances that can be in it as a result of being bandied about by drug dealers can be, and they are also most likely more harmful than marijuana. I'm not saying that nobody has ever experienced harmful effect from smoking marijuana, but the reason that they do is traced back to dealers. With marijuana legalized, these substances would not be in marijuana, therfore not causing their harmful effects, including addiction.

... an example of such a substance would be?

And the government will try to maximize their profits, but the sheer number of people who use marijuana will in essence do it for them, so they won't need to make prices rediculously high as they are now when buying from dealers.

"Need"? Capitalism involves "supply and demand", not "need".

Drug rings would not completely disappear, no, but you're reading what I said literally and without thinking about it. With legal marijuana, the market for illegal marijuana would disappear, and that's one less thing for the government to deal with.

And control and regulation of the substance - which you're also advocating - is one more thing to deal with.

And it would go a long way to getting rid of other drug markets as well. Save those who are already addicted, who would rather use cocaine illegally and risk being in trouble with the law than use marijuana perfectly legally and with less detrimental effects? They would still be able to experience their high or whatever, so there would be no desire to go after the hard drugs that are still illegal.

Under that logic, no one would be addicted to heroin 'cause alcohol is legal. Reality says; Not true.

But it furthers the argument that marijuana is not in the same league as hard drugs, and is better off legalized.

No, it doesn't, 'cause with that logic we should legalize heroin, because hey, morphine is a legal pain killer!

 

 

 

Still ignoring both the drop in mesured drop in intelligence assosciated with use of marijuanna as well as flashbacks.