Mercifull Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Youd have to be pretty naive to categorically say 100% that extra terrestrial life does not exist. The ods are incredibly slim but the number of planet in the universe is immense which practically make humans being the only life an impossibility. Of course i dont believe that they are visiting us in UFOs but that doesn't make me a disbeliever. Humans are the only life? That must mean that my cat is dead... OT: I guess I do. There's a good chance that, with all the planets out there, there is life outside Earth.Meh, pedant. Mercifull <3 Suzi "We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I guess it's no surprise your way of thinking is completely backwards compared to mine. You have no qualms in defending the reliability of supernatural concepts and dismissing natural ones when 1) the supernatural have no way of being proven where as the natural do, and; 2) you cite lack of evidence for alien life as reason not to believe in it when there is mathematical reasoning, which is more [indirect] evidence than any supernatural conept ever will have. :-k Supernatural concepts require faith. The concept of aliens shouldn't require faith. Therefore I have no reason to believe in aliens as they will either be found or not be found in the future. Mathematical reasoning doesn't say if there's anything out there, it merely gives us the odds for something being out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
How2PK Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Sure, why not. Signature by Maurice SendakWhen the stars make you drool just like a pasta fazool, that's amore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 So Korskin, I take it from your posts you won't be joining me in any "welcome to Earth" sign making :P The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 So Korskin, I take it from your posts you won't be joining me in any "welcome to Earth" sign making :P Call me when you've seen alien life and I'll join you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I agree with Korskin in as much as aliens do not require faith. So really the only rational answer i could give would be that it is almost certain there are aliens out there. Faith is a lot different to mathematical probabilities trying to compare the two shows a lack of understanding of what faith is. To have faith i do not even think you can understand what it is, thats where the suspension of rational thought occurs. When dealing with something completley irrational and absurd, how can you apply rational thought or intellect to that? When in doing so you are misunderstanding what it is. It's paradox and it transcends reason. With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 But what about when you try and justify faith with empirical evidence? "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldJoe Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Not aliens such as in the Alien movies. But some sort of life form? YES! Maybe a more intelligent life-form than something on Earth (humans included) or maybe something dumber. To all skeptics, there are millions and millions of plantes out there, some of them are bound to have life. J'adore aussi le sexe et les snuff moviesJe trouve que ce sont des purs moments de vieJe ne me reconnais plus dans les gensJe suis juste un cas désespérantEt comme personne ne viendra me réclamerJe terminerai comme un objet retrouvé Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satenza Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 ----------- With so many trees in the city you could see the spring coming each day until a night of warm wind would bring it suddenly in one morning. Sometimes the heavy cold rains would beat it back so that it would seem that it would never come and that you were losing a season out of your life. But you knew that there would always be the spring as you knew the river would flow again after it was frozen. When the cold rains kept on and killed the spring, it was as though a young person had died for no reason. In those days though the spring always came finally but it was frightening that it had nearly failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezz Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Since the Universe is so vast I believe it is very very probable that there are other intelligent life forms that are out there. But I believe that it is very highly improbable that they've been to earth or whatever #-o [insert birds flying in a circle here]Yes, that sig was annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I guess it's no surprise your way of thinking is completely backwards compared to mine. You have no qualms in defending the reliability of supernatural concepts and dismissing natural ones when 1) the supernatural have no way of being proven where as the natural do, and; 2) you cite lack of evidence for alien life as reason not to believe in it when there is mathematical reasoning, which is more [indirect] evidence than any supernatural conept ever will have. :-k Supernatural concepts require faith. The concept of aliens shouldn't require faith. Therefore I have no reason to believe in aliens as they will either be found or not be found in the future. Mathematical reasoning doesn't say if there's anything out there, it merely gives us the odds for something being out there. Lack of evidence for a natural phenomenon means we should not believe in it, I agree. What makes supernatural concepts so special and pardoned from this kind of reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assassin_696 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 To offer empirical evidence firstly misunderstands faith. How can we have justification to believe in the absurd, isn't that absurd in itself? How can we apply intellect and reason to faith? Faith in this sense afterall is the undoubtable absolute knowledge of the existance of God (or the unknown). Reason does not believe in the unknown, it believes in the not yet known. So it is fair for me to say that the unknown is reasons confrontation, reason does not understand it. In order to understand the unknown you can not rely on reason since they are not compatible, you can't use reason to justify the irrational. Reason meets its limits in the unknown, and God is what is the unknown. Someone who in order to have faith relies on empirical knowledge to support that their "faith" does not have faith since they do not understand what it is, they have not made the movements to aquire it. They have not abducted from reason and logic and are still therefore held back by it's chains. Exactly, which is why people who try and justify their religion with facts or flaws in scientific logic or reasoning annoy me, or try and prove their God. When someone just says "look, I know I can't prove it, it's just a matter of faith for me" then that's fine. It's when you enter into the realms of empircal evidence and scientific reasoning to prove something inherently supernatural that you start to get confused. "Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yaff2 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 ... And if they did exist, to please land in my backyard so I don't have to mow the lawn. In return I will sacrifice at least one brother and a slice of cheese. Rofl... thats all i gotta say, HAH 1980 Berlinetta with a 350, bored, mild cam, intake carb, headers, exhaust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Supernatural concepts require faith. The concept of aliens shouldn't require faith. Therefore I have no reason to believe in aliens as they will either be found or not be found in the future. Mathematical reasoning doesn't say if there's anything out there, it merely gives us the odds for something being out there. So you're saying that faith shouldn't be applied to concepts that are outside the supernatural. Concepts like evolution. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death45 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 if earth is the only life in the universe then it must be pretty special. and as for all you disbelievers; keep your mind open, scientists and NASA aren't always right. and it is possibility that the U.S. military are conducting tests with "alien" technology, and for those ppl who are asking "Well why don't they tell us?" 1 simple answer: the Internet. once the government makes an announcement it is on the internet. even if they get rid of the website that posted it theres a high chance that a lot of ppl will see it; including countries that the U.S. might be at war at. So the government doesn't want those ppl finding out about those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Smither Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I'm kind of leaning both ways on this 1 actually. Theres alot of strange stuff that happens in the sky and such but it's hard to believe we're not alone out there. I'm gonan stay both sides until we have solid proof. Click for My Blog670th to 99 Smithing July 21st, 07 |743rd to 99 Mining November 29th, 07 | 649th to 99 Runecrafting May 18th, 08 | 29,050th to 99 Defence October 20th, 08 | 20,700th to 99 Magic November 8, 08 | 47,938th to 99 Attack December 19, 08 | 37,829th to 99 Hitpoints December 24, 08 | 68,604th to 99 Strength February 4, 09 | 27,983rd to 99 Range February 9, 09 | 9,725th to 99 Prayer June 8, 09 | 6,620th to 99 Slayer December, 12 09 | 4,075th to 99 Summoning December, 28 09 | 3,551th to 99 Herblore February 24, 10 | 3,192th to 99 Dungeoneering November 11, 10 | 146,600th to 99 Cooking December 29th, 10 | 11,333rd to 99 Construction June 7th, 11 | 16,648th to 99 Farming August 1st, 11 | 19,993th to 99 Crafting August 2nd, 11 | 89,739th to 99 Woodcutting Janurary 1st, 12 | 55,424th to 99 Fishing May 9th, 12| 60,648th to 99 Firemaking May 12th, 12 | 16666th to 99 Agility May 17th, 2012 | 24476th to 99 Hunter June 1st, 2012 | 57,881st to 99 Fletching June 1st, 2012 | All 99s June 1st, 2012 | 3183th to 120 Dungeoneering July 24th, 2012 | 2341st to 2496 Total level July 24th, 2012 | Completionist Cape July 24th, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korskin Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Lack of evidence for a natural phenomenon means we should not believe in it, I agree. What makes supernatural concepts so special and pardoned from this kind of reasoning? Supernatural concepts can't be determined true or false using scientific method or mathematical reasoning. You can search through the entire universe and not find God but still claim God exist. This is not the case with aliens. If there is alien life we should be able to find it. Though this doesn't mean that supernatural concepts such as God has nothing to do with evidence of any kind. There is always anecdotal evidence, the Bible, Jesus or philosophical arguments. The problem is that even if you prove that the Bible is complete rubbish you still haven't disproved God. However, it would mean that you have undermined christianity. So you're saying that faith shouldn't be applied to concepts that are outside the supernatural. Concepts like evolution. Thank you. The problem with evolution is that it according to me conflicts with the Bible. You're going to say it doesn't so it becomes a matter of interpretation. Some interpretations are compatible with evolution and some aren't. If you think that there is a conflict between evolution and the Bible you have to choose which one to believe in. As for now I don't think that evolution is written in stone. It's really only when you're a metaphysical naturalist that evolution is the only option. Perhaps we shouldn't go down this road again though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksavior69 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Comparing aliens to ghosts is absurd. We know life exists; it's not some gigantic stretch to believe there is life on one other of presumably many billions of planets. Ghosts are not known to exist in any way, shape or form. One assuming aliens exist is looking at what does exist and believing the probability of it existing somewhere else is extremely high; ghosts is making a huge logical leap from observing rare and varied phenomenon to assuming ghosts exist. "The only way to avoid packaging the water would be to deliver it to people's homes and places of business through some sort of amazingly intricate and complex series of reservoirs, pumping stations, pipes . . . hey, wait a second.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadril Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Supernatural concepts can't be determined true or false using scientific method or mathematical reasoning. You can search through the entire universe and not find God but still claim God exist. This is not the case with aliens. If there is alien life we should be able to find it. I say there is an apple somewhere on this planet, a very specific apple. Now you could spend your entire life looking for this one, certain, apple but never find it. Many people could spend their lives looking for it, but on a large planet the chances would be almost none. However, the apple still exists. The same is true for aliens (par-say). I'm not saying its why they are real, I'm not, but I'm saying that to simply dismiss the idea (even though backing it is the sheer mathematically probability that out of billions or, nay, trillions of planets there are some that support life and some that could possibly have it) because we haven't 'seen' them yet is absurd. Though this doesn't mean that supernatural concepts such as God has nothing to do with evidence of any kind. There is always anecdotal evidence, the Bible, Jesus or philosophical arguments. The problem is that even if you prove that the Bible is complete rubbish you still haven't disproved God. However, it would mean that you have undermined christianity. The problem with evolution is that it according to me conflicts with the Bible. Now you've said it yourself, the bible could be wrong but god still be there. Why than is it so difficult for you to believe that? As far asalien life visiting us, I don't think there is a large chance. Unless there is a species far far advanced to us it just won't happen. And, even then, out of all the planets the chance for something to visit us is, well, slim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperClipsYaaaar Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 So you're saying that faith shouldn't be applied to concepts that are outside the supernatural. Concepts like evolution. Thank you. The problem with evolution is that it according to me conflicts with the Bible. You're going to say it doesn't so it becomes a matter of interpretation. Some interpretations are compatible with evolution and some aren't. If you think that there is a conflict between evolution and the Bible you have to choose which one to believe in. As for now I don't think that evolution is written in stone. It's really only when you're a metaphysical naturalist that evolution is the only option. Perhaps we shouldn't go down this road again though. There are two parts to the understanding of creation: science and religion. There are multiple interpretations of creation on the religion side, but only one explanation on the scientific side. Therefore, to choose any religious interpretation other than theistic evolution is to deny science altogether. The bible can also conflict with the possibility of alien life depending on interpretation, so is your attitude towards alien life entirely without the input of faith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warri0r45 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Lack of evidence for a natural phenomenon means we should not believe in it, I agree. What makes supernatural concepts so special and pardoned from this kind of reasoning? Supernatural concepts can't be determined true or false using scientific method or mathematical reasoning. You can search through the entire universe and not find God but still claim God exist. This is not the case with aliens. If there is alien life we should be able to find it. Though this doesn't mean that supernatural concepts such as God has nothing to do with evidence of any kind. There is always anecdotal evidence, the Bible, Jesus or philosophical arguments. The problem is that even if you prove that the Bible is complete rubbish you still haven't disproved God. However, it would mean that you have undermined christianity. So you're saying that faith shouldn't be applied to concepts that are outside the supernatural. Concepts like evolution. Thank you. The problem with evolution is that it according to me conflicts with the Bible. You're going to say it doesn't so it becomes a matter of interpretation. Some interpretations are compatible with evolution and some aren't. If you think that there is a conflict between evolution and the Bible you have to choose which one to believe in. As for now I don't think that evolution is written in stone. It's really only when you're a metaphysical naturalist that evolution is the only option. Perhaps we shouldn't go down this road again though. Response to me: So, if you can use evidence to support your chosen specific supernatural concepts, I should be able to use evidence to undermine them, which would, as you say, undermine Christianity. Although, I would argue that undermining creationism does not undermine Christianity unless you're a biblical literalist; it only undermines a literal reading of genesis. Response to clips: "It's not written in stone"? Have you done an exhaustive search on exactly why it's such a one sided affair in the scientific community that evolution happened? By the way nothing in science is technically "written in stone" as science is always correctable, falsifiable and dynamic in considering new knowledge and evidence. However, let me draw an analogy. Let me put it to you that evolution, for all intensive purposes, is set in stone, yet you could carve out the entire face of the tablet so that the words are gone and we're back to a level playing field. The issue is that this would obviously take a lot of hard work by way of evidence and a huge paradigm shift. Perhaps you'd like me to enlighten you as to why this is such a hard ask, given what we know... "It's really only when you're a metaphysical naturalist that evolution is the only option." Wrong. Theistic evolutionists, who aren't metaphysical naturalists, see evolution as far superior and totally compromisable with thier theology (some even see it as rediculous to regard young earth creationism as an option at all because, well, it contradicts known sciences). If a natural, verifiable, falsifiable, data encompassing theory has essentially proven the origin of species then there's no reason to conclude anything else. In doing so, you're (a) copping out by preferring unfalsifiable concepts instead of falsifying the already essentially proven theory, and/or, (B) being largely ignorant of the natural, verifiable, falsifiable, data encompassing theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGoddessI Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 If we did find aliens, I wonder what the bible would have to say about that? The only people who tell you that you can't do something are those who have already given up on their own dreams so feel the need to discourage yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
destro3979 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I believe that there is life in the universe there has to be some sort of single celled organisms out there intelligent life... there is still a good chance its out there who knows... New Sig Coming soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssalwhip Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 The size of the universe is beyond the comprehension of the human mind. Pretty obvious that in the whole universe earth isn't the only planet to have beings. (not being sarcastic). Your name is "bet you fail", and you're starting a business with your mom? I'm not even going to touch that..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebdragon Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 If we did find aliens, I wonder what the bible would have to say about that? Something about us being the superior, God-given race, and that we should enslave this new race under divine mandate. Or something along those lines. [if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.] Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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