"Runescape : an education that kids don't need?"

[Beaumonde]

Second, if Jagex only wants those over 13 to create accounts, then why do they market the game to elementary school students?

 

 

 

Umm .... an example please?

 

 

 

You my friend are a complete idiot if you are going to defend yourself so lightly and TruthScape deserves to die if they publish such lies.

[RU_Insane]

Someone please introduce me to the absolute moron who wrote the review.

 

 

 

 

Whoever wrote this obviously didn't play enough.

 

 

You obviously didn't bother reading this short thread before letting your knees start jerking, hmm? ;)

 

 

 

Hey Qeltar.

 

 

 

Everything you say is, I believe, backed up with research and facts, as well as unbiased valuable in-game experience and taking it up with Jagex Customer Support, so don't worry about the absolute morons who say you're wrong because they didn't do the same or more amount of research that you did. :P

 

 

 

BTW, your website is great and keep up the good work! :)

[RU_Insane]

Second, if Jagex only wants those over 13 to create accounts, then why do they market the game to elementary school students?

 

 

 

Umm .... an example please?

 

 

 

You my friend are a complete idiot if you are going to defend yourself so lightly and TruthScape deserves to die if they publish such lies.

 

 

 

Read what he siad on page 2, non-believer.

[qeltar]

Second, if Jagex only wants those over 13 to create accounts, then why do they market the game to elementary school students?

 

 

 

Umm .... an example please?

 

 

 

You my friend are a complete idiot if you are going to defend yourself so lightly and TruthScape deserves to die if they publish such lies.

 

 

 

I would be a complete idiot if I wasted my time repeating answers I've already given several times in this thread for the sake of someone too lazy to read it, wouldn't I?

 

 

 

~q

[vlad_the_old]

 

The flier that is referred to and is being refuted was brought to his attention by me. I was disturbed that it was directed to even younger children in my country. (Canada) In our school, the k to 6 are the only ones to whom that flier was given. A similar flier was distributed throughout North American schools at book fairs that occur 2 to 4 times a year.

 

 

 

The name of the book has changed several times. It was Andrew's baby as he has admitted on forums. He and Scholastic collaborated to make a Runescape manual. It was originally called an Official Runescape Guide. That had to be changed as it was a guide solely for newcomers and as such was incorrect. They were obliged to change the name to the Official Runescape guide to the free world. The name has changed twice since then and I have no idea what it may be called now.

 

 

 

The inside cover of that book has the official Jagex logo and copyright info. I imagine my having seen it first hand at my son's book fair will not help matters anyway. You will all just say I am a female version of Qeltar! :roll:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The fact that you are willing to step forward and state you have seen the book in the flesh is good enough for me. All my research on the book was online, and I found no mention to Jagex there. (I found it on Amazon).

 

 

 

If one is an adult who knows nothing about online gaming and wish to find out details on playing online safely, but want it from an independent source ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ Truthscape is a good resource to use. (But if you were that adult how would you know where to look.)

 

 

 

I think there is a lot of good information and advice on the Truthscape site, I just feel some of it is a tad more sensationalised than it needs to be. All of the fansites , be it here, Rune HQ, Zybez or Wiki, have sections on playing online safely, as does the Jagex knowledge base.

 

 

 

Jagex do a lot more than many other game sites about trying to ensure most of the players do not fall prey to the few individuals who delight in ruining things for others. My objection to the way Truthscape helps people understand the way to play safely online, is that a lot of the blame for the problems seems to be levelled at Jagex not doing enough. The problems encountered are due to the people you encounter online ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Ãâ donÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t blame the game designer for that.

[jokemaster]

When it really comes down to it, it is the parents responsibility to control what is presented to their children. If you do not like the aspects of the game (such as gambling) then you can choose not to play the game or allow your children to play. If you feel that you cannot trust that your children will respect your decision then you can control their access to the computer, or you can just block the site

[Beaumonde]

Second, if Jagex only wants those over 13 to create accounts, then why do they market the game to elementary school students?

 

 

 

Umm .... an example please?

 

 

 

You my friend are a complete idiot if you are going to defend yourself so lightly and TruthScape deserves to die if they publish such lies.

 

 

 

I would be a complete idiot if I wasted my time repeating answers I've already given several times in this thread for the sake of someone too lazy to read it, wouldn't I?

 

 

 

~q

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

why do they market the game to elementary school students?

I saw a RuneScape "manual" at a book fair at my daughter's school. The next day, she said she saw kids reading it on the bus. She told them, "Hey, I play that game!" They were like, "Woah, they have a game of this?"

 

 

 

Ding! We have a winner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was Jagex's decision to commission, participate in the writing of, and market this book to children that partially prompted me to write that article. (Part of it was also the company's abominable "luring is okay" decision in February, which they backtracked on mere days after my article went up.)

 

 

 

Jagex actually has made some strides in the 7 or 8 months since the first article was written, but they have a long way to go.

 

 

 

its a book thats on sale in a book catalouge mate, and forgive me if im wrong, but the ages indicate the recommended age to read the book, not the age to play the game

 

 

 

and calling teenagers going through puberty "hornball" is quite disturbing, you yourself must have gone through puberty, so wats with the sterotyped comment, or you havnt experianced puberty yet, which is why ur such a tightarse

 

 

 

They're selling a book to elementary school students not implying that they should play or saying its ok for them to play, and do you have any proof that the book was publish before that rule went into effect?

[paulyts50]

Any parent who lets a pre-teen surf the web without supervision is asking for trouble. Come to that, most teens need a lot more internet supervision than they get, and as a parent of a teen I've had to take some drastic steps from time to time

 

 

 

Why would you have to take drastic steps if you have looked over his shoulder and watched everything he ate, looked at, wore and played with since he was a baby. (My sarcasm stems from your reply on how to parent 101 below*)

 

 

 

Vlad's metaphor of leaving a kid alone with a loaded gun is very appropriate -- there's a lot of stuff out there on the internet that's not suitable for adults, let alone kids.

 

 

 

No it is not and yes there is a lot of inappropriate stuff on the internet. In this case Runescape looks pretty innocuous when you play with your child and seems far more so in the Runescape Official Handbook and that was the point.

 

 

 

Jagex's policy is in compliance with COPPA -- which they need if they want to do business in the US, even though they're a UK company. (Failure to comply could cost them their US servers, as well as huge legal bills and fines.) It's not their job to make their game "safe" for players outside their publicly stated age range. Andrew has said that the game is written for "people like us" -- i.e. Jagex employees, most of whom are in their early 20s. So it is a game for teens and older. (Much older in some cases! Embarassed )

 

 

 

The compliance with Coppa was so Runescape could be played in the US...not for any other reason. Andrew's statement that the game was made for people like us was made as we parents were creating an internet uproar over the luring issue and the fact that their official handbook was marketed to anyone but teens. But I guess if 'Andrew says so , it must be true'.

 

 

 

(You forgot to add nyah nyah. But if you were aware that that statement and the addition to the Knowledge base of that statement was a direct result of the articles you are now bashing...does it make Andrew's statement valid? Also, that Andrew admitted to the collaboration with Scholastic, which primarily markets to pre-teens just days before on RSOF, does that make any difference?)

 

 

 

Jagex did make a huge error of judgement over the luring issue, and was soundly taken to task over it by many of the fansites as well as the PMods -- although I wasn't privy to the discussion, I've heard that there was some serious talk in the PMod forum. I don't think qeltar should be claiming the glory for getting Jagex to change their mind on this one -- he was just one of a very large number of voices in that particular outcry.

 

 

 

Ummm Qeltar gives credit to the parents and we in turn give him credit for having given us a site to refer to for the media, parents and parent sites as well as player and gaming sites.

 

 

 

Jagex's job is to provide a game for their customers to play. They do that and do a pretty good job of it. It's not their job to do anything more than provide a game and kick out rule breakers when they catch them.

 

 

 

 

They have horrible customer service (refute that) let players find the bugs in poorly planned and executed updates and take forever, if ever, to correct (refute that and look for the 900 pages of rant on the assist option alone)

 

 

 

The rulebreakers have 15 black marks and are still playing because the auto responses from Jagex allow the their slate to be cleaned, while they permanent ban innocents who give gifts to friends or shared loot from a drop. I reported thousands of bots which are still in play. I reported hundreds of lechers who said things that should have given an instant ban yet I still see many in play and not muted. I reported 2 deviates who were targeting children and one conversation of an adult who admitted having cyber sex with a young teen. That last person is not only still playing years after but is now a player moderator. So what rulebreakers are they catching...Please, I would love to know.

 

 

 

Caveat Emptor applies -- perhaps even more on the internet than in real life.

 

 

 

As for the infamous flier. I doubt if that was anything to do with Jagex -- Scholastic puts them out all the time. I used to get them send home from school with my son when he was that age. I've seen several things advertised in them that I found questionable, though he stopped getting them before the book was released so I never saw that one. If you want to do anything about that, then complain to Scholastic -- they're the one's pushing the book. And Caveat Emptor applies here too.

 

 

 

 

You doubt it because you care not to read? And you found things questionable so you complained to the school and scholastic yourself, right (see your guide to be a perfect parent again*)

 

 

 

But being you have not seen the kiddie pictures and the cutesy children's 'book' that was the only 'Official Runescape Guide' ever to be sanctioned by Jagex and you have not seen this infamous flier it must not be reality? It was designed and marketed to and for little children. It is a book for little children and Andrew has admitted to writing most of it, even though the full credit was given to Ms. West. (Again in response to queries in the RSOF)

 

 

 

We all did complain to Scholastic and their lawyers , the schools , the libraries and of course Jagex. Scholastic markets to children and Tracey West the children's author was chosen to write it. But I guess Jagex had no idea with whom they were dealing with? :roll: Please be sure to reread what you wrote below in your guide to being a perfect parent. Ask yourself if it is true. I think you may have tried your very best, which is what any good parent would do.

 

 

 

* If you're a parent, then it's your job to make sure that everything your kid does, all the toys and clothes he/she has, the food he/she eats, etc. is suitable and safe. (It's not a job for wimps, let me tell you!) It's no one else's job to tell you how to bring your kid up, what books he/she should read, what TV shows to watch, music to listen to, what time to go to bed, what to eat and drink. You have to take time to get involved in what your kid is doing, and make sure that they haven't strayed into dangerous or dubious territory*.

 

 

 

It's not Jagex's job, nor is it qeltar's, nor any other "concerned citizen" to bring up your kids. Most of you are probably too old to remember Mary Whitehouse and her campaigns against "obscenity" or Tipper Gore's campaigns against bad language in music. But these sorts of crusades are totally bogus. They're much more about making a name for the crusaders than they are about really making a difference.

 

 

 

 

You may insult me and call me a crusader. I consider myself a good parent, just as you do and I am a concerned citizen. I do not sit on my laurels and spout off rhetoric after the fact, I act and strike when it counts to make a difference. This is rehashed nonsense months after the articles made the difference they were intended to make. I would think that because you are part of the 'team' here, you would made bloody sure you were 'right' and not simply righteous before spouting.

 

 

 

If you want to make a difference in Runescape, then don't scam, don't lure, don't cheat, don't attempt to avoid the censor, don't buy and sell items or accounts for real money. In short, play by the rules. And of course report anyone you see breaking them. You don't need a huge crusade and an ad-supported website to make a difference, you just need to play right.

 

 

 

Really? So sitting on your laurels makes a difference? I think not sir. Playing by the rules makes you a good example and a good player, but that's is about it. The Truthscape site eliminated many scams as Jagex has changed coding after years of player complaints and is the perfect alternative for kids who play to turn to to find how to play as a good player. It is also a good way for parents to find out about all aspects of the game and to make informed decisions.

 

 

 

As it is, the vast majority of players are decent law abiding people -- like the vast majority of people anywhere. It would be a terrible waste to break the game because of a few cheats.

 

 

 

There are more then a few cheaters and thousands of cheat sites, gold sites and gold farmers. If your statement above were true, tell me how those sites are able to stay in business please. Truthscape is a healthy and honest alternative and I will applaud it as such. May I reiterate I do not know Qeltar in real, we are not friends on Runescape, but I respect what he has done and the changes he has made in the game.

[qeltar]

 

They're selling a book to elementary school students not implying that they should play or saying its ok for them to play

 

 

 

Look, this is not a book containing a fictional story based on RuneScape or something like that. It's a practical how-to-play guide. Your ridiculous comment makes as much sense as a tobacco company claiming that they're selling cigarettes and lighters to kids and telling them how to use the lighters, but "oh no, we're not saying that they should smoke, no sirree".

 

 

 

(Why are so many people around here so desperate to defend what is clearly indefensible behavior on the part of Jagex? Is the company really that successful with its implicit brainwashing program? Or do folks just need to feel like Jagex can do no wrong because it makes them feel uncomfortable to have to deal with difficult issues?)

 

 

 

Edit: Thanks Pauly, and nice to "see" you again.

[Beaumonde]

 

They're selling a book to elementary school students not implying that they should play or saying its ok for them to play

 

 

 

Look, this is not a book containing a fictional story based on RuneScape or something like that. It's a practical how-to-play guide. Your ridiculous comment makes as much sense as a tobacco company claiming that they're selling cigarettes and lighters to kids and telling them how to use the lighters, but "oh no, we're not saying that they should smoke, no sirree".

 

 

 

(Why are so many people around here so desperate to defend what is clearly indefensible behavior on the part of Jagex? Is the company really that successful with its implicit brainwashing program? Or do folks just need to feel like Jagex can do no wrong because it makes them feel uncomfortable to have to deal with difficult issues?)

 

 

 

Edit: Thanks Pauly, and nice to "see" you again.

 

 

 

Your metaphor is completely impratical in comparison to what Jagex is doing, "tobacco company claiming that they're selling cigarettes and lighters to kids and telling them how to use the lighters, but oh no, we're not saying that they should smoke, no sirree." If Jagex was advertising specifically to them like specifically "selling cigarettes and lighters to kids" then I could see your point but simple and discreetly advertising to a new market isn't illegal.

[atacker8]

educational mayby

[qeltar]

 

If Jagex was advertising specifically to them like specifically "selling cigarettes and lighters to kids" then I could see your point

 

 

They are.

 

 

but simple and discreetly advertising to a new market isn't illegal.

 

 

 

I didn't say it was illegal. I said it was hypocritical and wrong.

 

 

 

You aren't making much sense, I'm afraid.

[Samurai_1909]

Kids under 13 can play with a guardian's permission.

 

No they can't. Kids under 13 can't play unless their parents are playing the game with them. Read the ToS:

 

 

 

A SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT PRETEENS AND USERS UNDER 18

 

If you are under 13 years old, you must not create an account. We don't knowingly permit anyone under 13 to use this website. Nor do we knowingly collect any personally identifiable information from preteens. Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online. And the game difficulty level is for teenagers and older. While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough. Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game. Many parents have reported that playing the Game as a family is fun and rewarding. Then when your children are 13 they will be ready for their own account.

 

 

 

If you are under 18, by using our website you are representing (i.e. making a promise) that you have permission from your parents or legal guardian to use our sites and to our terms and conditions and privacy policy. We reserve the right to Terminate any account if we are not satisfied that such permission has been given.

 

 

 

If we are notified by a parent that their preteen has lied about their age when registering on our site, we will Terminate the account provided we have confirmation which satisfies us that the reporting person is indeed the parent.

 

 

 

If children below 13 play Runescape, that's their fault for lying about their age.

 

 

 

 

 

However, I do agree that Jagex shouldn't advertise to kids younger than 13.

[fgfuyfyuiuy0]

When I was five, I couldn't even type...

[lord_british]

Just to add my two cents worth to what Lux has said, if you check out the author of the book, Tracey West, you will find she has written a number of manuals to childrenÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s games. The front cover of the book boldly proclaims itself as the official handbook, but nowhere on the cover is the Jagex trademark featured. If this was a book sponsored by Jagex, I would have thought they would have ensured their logo was shown?

 

No, Jagex provided the information to Mz West, who wrote it under their direction. Jagex's copyright is on the book, thereby making it "official", rather than "unofficial" as it would have to be labelled under any number of countries laws, including the US.

 

 

 

Next to the ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Ådangers of RunescapeÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[qeltar]

 

No they can't. Kids under 13 can't play unless their parents are playing the game with them. Read the ToS

 

 

Which applies only to new accounts, and not the tens of thousands (or hundreds of thousands) that were created by preteens before that rule was put into place.

 

 

If children below 13 play Runescape, that's their fault for lying about their age.

 

 

As you agreed, it's also Jagex's fault for encouraging them to get interested in the game.

 

 

 

And Jagex's fault for putting absolutely no systems in place to stop kids from lying to get an account. All you have to do is say you are 14 and that's it.

[lordkrohn1626]

 

They're selling a book to elementary school students not implying that they should play or saying its ok for them to play

 

 

 

Look, this is not a book containing a fictional story based on RuneScape or something like that. It's a practical how-to-play guide. Your ridiculous comment makes as much sense as a tobacco company claiming that they're selling cigarettes and lighters to kids and telling them how to use the lighters, but "oh no, we're not saying that they should smoke, no sirree".

 

 

 

(Why are so many people around here so desperate to defend what is clearly indefensible behavior on the part of Jagex? Is the company really that successful with its implicit brainwashing program? Or do folks just need to feel like Jagex can do no wrong because it makes them feel uncomfortable to have to deal with difficult issues?)

 

 

 

Edit: Thanks Pauly, and nice to "see" you again.

 

 

 

Okay a few facts: I am 39yo, active duty US Naval Officer who has been serving for 22 years (joined at 17yo), wife is a 3rd grade exceptional student teacher....we both play, 2 of our 4 kids play.

 

 

 

At my wife's school at the book fair, they have this book, she bought it to bring home and show me. It is in my lap at this moment. Copyrighted © 2006 by Jagex Limited First printing Sept 2006. What this has to do with school books I am not aware of. But it is in the book fair. On the back cover it also has the Copyright of 2006 Jagex.

 

 

 

So as Qeltar stated, this is a book being sold in the US at Elementary schools. I don't have a problem with my kids playing, I teach them what to do and not do, and monitor as neccessary. but I think Mr Qeltar has some very valid points. It is clear he wrote the original article in the "heat of the moment" and I have been guilty of that over time as well :oops: But the game IS marketed at children, and tons of very young kids play and tons of adults play as well. (another flame war in itself) Yes kiddies, we played the first few video games, enjoyed them, and continue to do so as adults. 2005 US study showed average gamer is 30 yo, not 12 like you think. Approx 40% are female as well. So it is very possible that the player who just slapped your player to the ground like a bag of trash could very well be your friends mom. Think about that for a moment...hehe

 

 

 

Anyway, I understand where Mr Qeltar is coming from. I dont think it is the end of the world, but it is definately something parents need to know in order to make an informed decision on what their children are potentially getting involved with. Of course nothing stops them from clicking away at the library.

 

 

 

Peace

[vlad_the_old]

Thank you Lord British for clearing up my question as to your identity. My reason for questioning the name was there used to be a fairly high ranking RS player with the name Lord British. That account is no longer active as, I believe, it was banned for reasons unknown.

 

 

 

I would like to compliment you on your replies, as I found them very readable and I enjoyed the ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åacerbic witÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

[Alina]

Runescape A Good Source of Knowledge? :thumbup:

 

 

 

Well, have you noticed that in Social Studies & Math are involved with runescape? Runescape has some fake things that were not in the past, but it does have alot that was. That leads runescape into Social Studies there.

 

 

 

Through my younger life-time, Runescape had some things I didn't know about myself. When It came up at school I was mostly the only one able to answer the question. Runescape allows you to experiance what went on back then, but more fun!

 

 

 

Where math Takes in is your skills. Have you ever estimated, or did the math to figure out how much more exp until your next level? Well that's Multiplying, Subtracting, and Adding! Sometimes it's even division. It's not much about math, but atleast they have it!

 

 

 

Runescape A Bad Source of Knowledge? :thumbdown:

 

 

 

Well, Runescape is a bad source of knowledge in most places. First off, the players do not speak correct English! This causes kids at school to spell things easy, incorrectly.

 

 

 

Also, In some spots, It teaches players to lie & Cheat their ways through life. With all of the scammers and hackers around, who knows what this influences on others.

 

 

 

Fairy Tales, or other things unreal in Runescape have younger players beleiving it. Such as Mages for example, A kid goes to school saying "I can do magic! I'm a Mage!"

 

 

 

Yes, After all runescape has weak spots, and It also has strong spots.

 

 

 

~Alina

[4be2jue]

Some good points and bad points have been put across here, but can I ask ,can you truly say that every 13 year old that does play the game will read and fully and I mean fully understand the terminology of the rules and regulations, I think not.

 

 

 

So has a Mother of a fully grown son and daughter I would say it is and was my responsibility has a parent to teach, guide, mentor, coach, advise, counsel AND LOVE them.

 

With this is mind, even now as they are 25 and 30 YEARS OLD I still do the above and I will never stop.

 

Luckily my children have grown up into wonderful adults and yes they did get into things that they shouldnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t but I would never blame anything or anybody for that but myself. Life is a journey of learning and we learn something new everyday.

 

So as long has we are actively aware we can be ready for any eventuality that might occur.

 

So Jagex can not be actively aware as the parent to thousands of children, all they can do is try and thatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s not a crime,. They can learn from there mistakes just like the rest of us, after all didnÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t you know we are human.

 

Thanks