"Runescape : an education that kids don't need?"

[Solidus_77]

Female players in RuneScape are subjected to nearly continuous harassment by the testosterone-overloaded teenaged hornballs who comprise the bulk of the game's players. This includes lewd comments, and being constantly asked if they "want a boyfriend." Many girls resort to playing as male characters just to keep their sanity.

 

 

 

Yeah, that is a good quote. I sometimes hang around in banks wearing my pink dwarf skirt and yelling, "Need bf/free stuff!" One time I got a free bronze sword that way, but most times it doesn't work. Maybe the moustache or bald spot give me away.

 

 

 

Well that certainly shows that the "geek" stereotype which fails at social skills let alone dating sure has some truth :XD:

[qeltar]

Ekim, as much as I appreciated your support, those who have responded to you are right. If you use others' words, you must give them credit.

 

 

 

Although it may simply be my adolecant nature, I absolutely hate this over protectiveness that leads family members (particularly mothers, hence the name "soccer moms") to make such outrageous claims. Basically just looking for problems where there are none.It's a 13+ game too, if they don't want their kid playing it, then it's their responsibility.

 

 

Solidus, you're a smart guy and better than this sort of comment. Did you even read the thread before responding? This argument has been addressed several times.

 

 

This isn't the first time either. It ruins the fun.

 

 

Maybe you're just being a bit too defensive?

 

 

The 5 year old thing just decreases the credibility this "educational" discussion of runescape because it shows they obviously didn't bother finding out that the game is 13+

 

 

Again, this just shows that you didn't read the thread.

 

 

 

And for crying out loud, people, be a little less ovine in terms of swallowing what you are fed by big corporations. Just because a lawyer made them put "13+" on their website doesn't mean the game actually is only 13+.

 

 

EDIT: Ok it seems I can't trash the article completely just because some of it's facts are wrong.

 

 

Which facts are wrong?

 

 

Funny description, although the author is trying to use this as well as some examples of "bullying" to say that kids act like they otherwise would do normally and then blames Jagex for letting it happen.

 

The author (me) is mainly blaming Jagex for playing a charade of running a game for 13+ players while simultaneously targeting and advertising its game towards pre-teens and elementary school students.

[venedlor]

Tell me, folks.. if tobacco companies deliberately advertised to children, made it possible for children to smoke in schools, sold books to help kids start smoking, and made free cigarettes available to kids, would they share any blame for kids becoming smokers, or would it only fall on the parents?

 

 

 

The responsibility lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents. Don't like the fact that your kids are your responsibility... that's easy, keep your zipper done up.

 

 

 

A tobacco company could 'advertise to children' - it's still my responsibility to my children to monitor the television they watch, and - should they see an advertisement for something I disapprove of, educate them as to why its not a good idea.

 

 

 

I'm not really sure how you think a tobacco company could "make it possible" to smoke in schools. Whether or not smoking is allowed in a school or not should be an issue for the school... last time I checked, the tobacco companies didn't own any schools, but if they did, and they allowed smoking in them, then it's still my right and responsibility as a parent to find out about the smoking policy of a school before I decide whether or not to send my children there.

 

 

 

Likewise with the books and free cigarettes, what my children obtain is my responsibility to filter - not the tobacco companies, not the government, not the community. Any prospective parent who feel that anyone but themselves should bear any responsibility for the upbringing of their children other than themselves and their partner needs to make an appointment with a vasectomy clinic right away.

 

 

 

- Father of two very happy, well adjusted children who enjoy sitting on dad's knee watching him carve up a dragon or two before bedtime.

 

 

 

QFT! :thumbsup: =D> :thumbsup: =D> :thumbsup: =D>

[Dudecrush8]

 

Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. If condition persists, consult your physician. Freshest if eaten before date on carton. Please remain seated until the ride has come to a complete stop. For off-road use only. One size fits all. Many suitcases look alike. Contains a substantial amount of non-tobacco ingredients.Slippery when wet. Not affiliated with the American Red Cross. Not the Beatles. Do not write below this line. Falling rock. Lost ticket pays maximum rate. Nap was here. Place stamp here. Avoid contact with skin. Sanitized for your protection. Beware of dog. Use only in a well-ventilated area. Booths for two or more. No alcohol, dogs or horses. No anchovies unless otherwise specified. First pull up, then pull down. Call toll free number before digging. Driver does not carry cash. Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear. Record additional transactions on back of previous stub. Do not fold, spindle or mutilate. No transfers issued until the bus comes to a complete stop. Keep out of reach of children. Phenylketonurics: contains phenylalanine. Close cover before striking. Mind the gap. Parental discretion is advised. May cause abdominal cramping and loose stools. Vitamins A, D, E, and K have been added. Not designed or intended for use in on-line control of aircraft, air traffic, aircraft navigation or aircraft communications; or in the design, construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility. Container may explode if heated. May contain traces of various nuts and seeds.

 

 

 

This supersedes all previous notices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Excuse me whell I go to the hospital... I appear to have broken my laughing muscle :XD: ...

 

 

 

That is now my offical "finniest post ever seen anywere"

 

 

 

On topic... I'm still not to fond of Qeltars view on this subject, jagex is doing fine, you may think otherwise and are entitled to your oppinon, but nevertheless there doing fine...

[lazy_k]

Incredibly, people seem to entirely miss the point of the article. As the author of it already pointed a painful amount of times: Yes, there's a 13+ rule to create a new account, but:

 

 

 

1) It's (apparently) very recent, [For the record, do you know the date it was added?] which means children that was under 13 years of age at the time the rule was added (and still are) already have accounts.

 

2) People under 13 can still play, they just need the "approval" of a guardian.

 

3) Most importantly, Jagex continues to advertise this as a children's game with people under 13 as the target age.

 

 

 

Now, I haven't really seen Jagex advertising their game to small children specifically. (Maybe aside from that handbook, but then again I wouldn't know whether the age recommendation is set by the people working at that website or Jagex themselves.) Even so, articles like these are in my opinion stupidly over-protective. I agree with the hypocrisy pointed out, but when you claim gaming aspects like killing NPCs, thieving (lol) and merchanting for money is hurtful for children it's just ghost-seeing.

 

 

 

Yes, some parts of the community is indeed horrible now and should probably be addressed better, but Jagex does not sit still and do nothing (well...arguably). However, children today are more robust than you'd think (Funnily enough, Lord British talked about the ability of today's children like they were the reincarnation of Jesus himself, yet deems them incapable of handling a simple online-community without coming out wretched and ready for a mental institute), and for those who are not I really do believe it's mostly the parents responsibility. As I said, Jagex shields them somewhat. The rest is up to the parents to understand their own children's personal needs. (Lord British also comments that we're not living in a "black and white" ideal world. Well, then lets not teach children that we are.)

[lord_british]

Incredibly, people seem to entirely miss the point of the article. As the author of it already pointed a painful amount of times: Yes, there's a 13+ rule to create a new account, but:

 

 

 

1) It's (apparently) very recent, [For the record, do you know the date it was added?] which means children that was under 13 years of age at the time the rule was added (and still are) already have accounts.

 

 

 

IIRC, it was sometime around the first half of 2006, april/may? It certainly wasn't in place from the end of October 2005 (when I started playing) to sometime into the New Year 2006.

 

 

 

I must admit I didn't pay much attention to it at the time, it's been a LONG time since I was 13 :oops: :-w

 

 

 

(Funnily enough, Lord British talked about the ability of today's children like they were the reincarnation of Jesus himself, yet deems them incapable of handling a simple online-community without coming out wretched and ready for a mental institute)

 

 

 

umm? no, I was merely pointing out that some young kids are not as stupid regarding technology and games as some of the people on this thread would like to think.

 

 

 

First hand knowledge, not gleaned from web-sites. And for those who think that kids don't soak up anything they are exposed to, (nature vs nurture debates, anyone?) there is ample proof that it's actually both, not one OR the other that factor in how a child will mature (or not :wink: ).

 

 

 

The more kids are exposed to the worst of the "talk" inside Runescape (or indeed any other community, online or off) without explaining to them WHY it's bad, and should not be emulated, the more they will see it as "normal", and parrot it. Another parental duty that some seem to be failing miserably at :evil: .

 

 

 

Yes, it's hard to juggle work, social, and kids, but "compromise" is a word many people need to learn early in their adult life, and should not children also learn this from their parents? Perhaps then people would get along better...oh wait...there's that ideal world again :wall:

[killotroll]

Hello Teeg,

 

 

 

 

There is no point debating such topics here.

 

 

 

The vast majority of Humans are unable to think in scientific terms. Instead they are trained to think only in emotional terms. This applies to scientists as well as laymen, unfortunately, and that is why sensitive topics are always colored by propaganda. That is why the burden of proof always falls on those who question propaganda. That is why such propaganda will be defended with the fanaticism of religious dogma.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Why, oh why do people take quotes from the internet (in this case from the American Renaissance News) and pass it off as their own?

 

 

 

*On Topic* - I originally read Truthscape some time ago, and, although Qeltar makes some good points, I do believe he goes OTT on a number of issues.

 

 

 

firstly, I'm very surprised that a reader of such a highly reader-selective medium as AR definitely is would proceed to attack somebody in such an inadequate manner. Purposefully denying the content of the message, denouncing the text just by pointing out the use of a quote is a practice of the empty handed.

 

 

 

Secondly, to answer your question, I keep a very extensive list of quotes gathered over many years from news, books, conferences et cetera which I find note worthy. If it helps me to deliver the message intended across to the reader, I do not have any regrets incomporating any strong and fitting quotes from my notes into the texts.

 

 

 

Lastly, while dealing with the bellow-average community of Runescape game players on these boards, I won't regret the use of any copy/paste material that seems to be fitting my views on the subjects discussed. The message will be delivered and a lot of seconds saved in the process; leaving me overjoyed for the time saved while masochistically dealing with the local trash.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

edit: on topic: http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=634393&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=20

 

 

 

Also. I'm not going to make a new, off topic reply posts. If you need to explain what was ment by this short article written in simple English language, use the private messaging system.

 

 

 

And to the few who seem not understand the big words: To borrow other people's ideas, research, or discovery IS plagiarizing. It is way different from borrowing other people's well-laid formulation of general, widely known content, just to make message of MY ideas more clear. It is widely used practice in papers, politics, television news, or public speeches worldwide. It does not require quoting.

 

 

 

That was not pretty!

 

Just admit it when you are caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

[Teeg]

 

firstly, I'm very surprised that a reader of such a highly reader-selective medium as AR definitely is would proceed to attack somebody in such an inadequate manner. Purposefully denying the content of the message, denouncing the text just by pointing out the use of a quote is a practice of the empty handed.

 

 

 

Secondly, to answer your question, I keep a very extensive list of quotes gathered over many years from news, books, conferences et cetera which I find note worthy. If it helps me to deliver the message intended across to the reader, I do not have any regrets incomporating any strong and fitting quotes from my notes into the texts.

 

 

 

Lastly, while dealing with the bellow-average community of Runescape game players on these boards, I won't regret the use of any copy/paste material that seems to be fitting my views on the subjects discussed. The message will be delivered and a lot of seconds saved in the process; leaving me overjoyed for the time saved while masochistically dealing with the local trash.

 

 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm. I think others have already replied for me, if you are going to quote, I believe citing the source is the done thing.

 

 

 

As for the "bellow-average" community, I believe "below" is the word you're looking for, oh and "incomporating"="incorporating". Anyone from the "local trash" would know that!

 

 

 

regards

 

 

 

Teeg

[Dexek]

Well, the way I see it.. If my parents do/did not want me to do something such as play a particular game, or go somewhere, then they would be good parents, and not let me do that. Some people feel it is hard to "watch" your children, but if you teach them particular values while they are still children, they will understand and respect you. I can not see how a parent is unable to "watch" a 5-year old child, and prevent him/her from playing games with "killing" and "profanity"..

 

 

 

This seems similar to the people who buy Grand Theft Auto for their children, and then harp that it is a sadistic game, and should be banned. There is an 18+ rating on that game for a reason, parents. If gaming-stores are selling it to underage children, complain about them, not the game itself, which is adult-oriented.

[qeltar]

Well, the way I see it.. If my parents do/did not want me to do something such as play a particular game, or go somewhere, then they would be good parents, and not let me do that. Some people feel it is hard to "watch" your children, but if you teach them particular values while they are still children, they will understand and respect you. I can not see how a parent is unable to "watch" a 5-year old child, and prevent him/her from playing games with "killing" and "profanity"..

 

 

 

This seems similar to the people who buy Grand Theft Auto for their children, and then harp that it is a sadistic game, and should be banned.

 

 

What you and a few others are still failing to acknowledge is that Jagex makes it exceedingly difficult for even conscientious parents to take the responsibility for their kids that you think they should. In effect, the company makes an 'end run' AROUND the parents to get kids excited about the game and to allow them to access it without approval.

 

 

 

For example:

 

 

 

1. You mention parents "buying GTA for their kids and then complaining". Well here there is nothing to buy. This alone is a HUGE factor in kids playing the game. I consider that indisputable.

 

 

 

2. They have created a game that is ridiculously easy to access and play nearly anywhere, which is not the case with most other games. Even if I don't want my kid playing it at home, he can play it almost anywhere else.

 

 

 

3. Jagex has done NOTHING to block access to the game or to educate librarians or others that the game should not be used by children. It is easy to get onto Runescape almost anywhere.

 

 

 

4. Jagex make the game LOOK child-friendly and appealing to kids.

 

 

 

5. They market the game directly to kids, in schools. Parents cannot be there to watch what happens in school all day.

 

 

 

6. They provide virtually NO tools for parents who want to monitor their kids' activity. I know, because I am one, and I have corresponded with other parents who want to keep track of how and when their kids play but cannot.

 

 

 

I'm afraid that RuneScape is becoming the "Joe Camel" of computer games.

[mr_tiddles]

In life you will have people who dislike anything that their kids do, so don't put too much stock into the article. The person who wrote the article needs to reevaluate their own life and stop pushing morality upon others. Fools like this actually believe there is a prerequisite for scamming when joining Runescape. When in reality, it would probably be their own kids who are scamming because their lives are so boring there is nothing else to do.

 

 

 

Runescape certainly has a long ways to go to improve some of these issues, but it is unfair to delare a game as "bad" because it does exisit. I have seen kids cheat while playing Candyland. Maybe we should contact Mattel and tell them to stop making the game because it is a bad influence on the kids of the world.

[LordBlk]

i think whoever wrote this is a complete moron

 

1. The chances of getting scammed if ure actually abiding by the age restriction is practiacally impossible if you use you common sense!

 

2. The wilderness is the only place where u can get pked so if you go there and just happen to ignore all the signs and if you managed to MISS THE LARGE DITCH SEPERATING THE WILDY FROM THE REST OF RUNESCAPE then u should see a doctor or something

 

3. Obviously this person has focused on the bad people not the good ones who help others such as in varrock in quests etc

 

4. If a five year old can register on rs and understand how to play it then PIGS CAN FLY!!!! (i tried playing at 9 and i couldnt understand how to register!)

 

 

 

the bottom line is it is that it is the parents fault not for supervising their underaged kids and if they taught them enough for them to register then those kids are surely mature enough to play and if they are not then how would they be able to sign up with the game and if you are not underaged and still get scammed u are either a new player or you are not reading the trade interfaces or monitering the situation with the full capacity of your brain and i would suggest turning you common sense meter to high

 

it is practically impossible to be cheated in rs now coz of the assist system too and the new trade interfaces

[qeltar]

i think whoever wrote this is a complete moron

 

 

I think you should read the thread because you obviously didn't.

[Solidus_77]

 

Solidus, you're a smart guy and better than this sort of comment. Did you even read the thread before responding? This argument has been addressed several times.

 

 

 

Nope, sorry, I did not, it was a quick response kind of thing. And considering that I can now speak to the author of the article, I will look through it and come up with some more coherent arguments.

 

 

Maybe you're just being a bit too defensive?

 

 

 

I believe that it's overreacting to fuss over small details (e.g. the scene with the guards talking about getting killed over and over), I will defend such elements of comic relief.

 

 

 

Again, this just shows that you didn't read the thread.

 

 

 

And for crying out loud, people, be a little less ovine in terms of swallowing what you are fed by big corporations. Just because a lawyer made them put "13+" on their website doesn't mean the game actually is only 13+.

 

 

 

But when it comes to legalities or issues concerning the content, the 13+ rule is pretty much specifically designed so that people cannot debate the content of the game exactly like the article.

 

 

 

Which facts are wrong?

 

 

 

Saying the game is aimed at 12 and under. That simply isn't the case but if you can find some notice that explains that jagex, not only intends for the game not to be 13+ but specifically targets pre-teens then sure go ahead.

 

 

 

Also, the 5 year old player is obviously a ridiculous extreme.

 

 

 

 

The author (me) is mainly blaming Jagex for playing a charade of running a game for 13+ players while simultaneously targeting and advertising its game towards pre-teens and elementary school students.

 

 

 

And that, I believe, is not true. Which advertisements are explicitly made for pre-teens? how can you demonstrate that this game is made for pre-teens?

 

 

 

Expect some more detailed and coherent arguments in a bit.

[qeltar]

 

But when it comes to legalities or issues concerning the content, the 13+ rule is pretty much specifically designed so that people cannot debate the content of the game exactly like the article.

 

 

No, the 13+ rule is designed to cover Jagex's legal rear end, while allowing them to continue to expand their memberbase with kids of all ages.

 

 

Saying the game is aimed at 12 and under. That simply isn't the case but if you can find some notice that explains that jagex, not only intends for the game not to be 13+ but specifically targets pre-teens then sure go ahead.

 

 

Already covered. Read the thread, please.

 

 

Also, the 5 year old player is obviously a ridiculous extreme.

 

 

No, it isn't. Read the thread, please.

 

 

And that, I believe, is not true. Which advertisements are explicitly made for pre-teens? how can you demonstrate that this game is made for pre-teens?

 

Read the thread, please. :)

[epeeflecher]

You guys act too mature.

[Sunli]

To Qeltar: Im fairly sure that the book you were refering to earlier "The Official Runescape Handbook and Strategy Handbook", is written by Tracey West alone, and by her alone. Jagex had no influence in writing that book to my knowledge. I do know they were looking into if she violated any of their rights before it was published, but to my knowledge that was all their involvement with it. If someone know more about this, please be so kind and enlighten us further :)

 

 

 

 

 

I read your article and I have to say I find it a bit biased and anti-jagex.

 

 

 

There are many things Jagex have done to make the game safe and enjoyable for kids playing. Playermods were introduced to the game to make sure kids have a safe enviroment to play in. On their main site they have a menu with helpfull links for both parents and children;

 

# Getting started

# Rules

# Manual

# QuestHelp

# Parents' Guide

# Safety & Security

# Customer Support

 

 

 

I have played for so many years now, and I do agree with you on some points.There are players cheating, swearing and behaving badly, but Iv seen that theres 10 players that are great people for every bad player out there!

 

 

 

One more thing I have noticed that Jagex have done, is to play a video above the game window (in F2P) with a funny and informative plot to get the kids attention, where it warns against scammers and cheaters.

 

 

 

Since RuneScape is limited to users aged 13 and older, I feel its the parents responsibility to monitor and guard their child while being on the internet. Is it really to be a good parent if you let your child unsupervised while being on the internet or other medias? :-k

 

 

 

I might have more to say later on, but Im late for an appointment, so have to rush! :

[Solidus_77]

 

No, the 13+ rule is designed to cover Jagex's legal rear end, while allowing them to continue to expand their memberbase with kids of all ages.

 

 

 

Then why is the content 13+?

 

 

 

 

Already covered. Read the thread, please.

 

 

 

One book. Honestly I don't know what to say. I'm quite amazed that the guide was advertized, however could you give me the link? I really want to check it to avoid jumping to conclusion.

 

 

 

 

 

No, it isn't. Read the thread, please.

 

 

 

Read it, it's still a ridiculous extreme. What exactly shows otherwise?

 

 

 

 

Read the thread, please. :)

 

 

 

Congratulations for pulling that off, now I'd like to see what that was all about :shock: .

 

 

 

But if this is article is about the time before the 13+ rule then the problem has already been solved, the parent must accompany the child through the steps and therefore can shield the child.

[lazy_k]

1. You mention parents "buying GTA for their kids and then complaining". Well here there is nothing to buy. This alone is a HUGE factor in kids playing the game. I consider that indisputable.

 

 

 

2. They have created a game that is ridiculously easy to access and play nearly anywhere, which is not the case with most other games. Even if I don't want my kid playing it at home, he can play it almost anywhere else.

 

Thousand of sites provide free games both easier to access than RuneScape and a lot more violent. Plus, this is one of the main reasons so many people above the age of 13 play RuneScape in the first place.

 

 

 

3. Jagex has done NOTHING to block access to the game or to educate librarians or others that the game should not be used by children. It is easy to get onto Runescape almost anywhere.

 

I fail to understand why Jagex should have to go out of their way to educate librarians about their game. Most companies with products for 13 year olds and older don't.

 

 

 

4. Jagex make the game LOOK child-friendly and appealing to kids.

 

More than other MMORPGs? Because it has bad graphics and is simple? I don't agree.

 

 

 

5. They market the game directly to kids, in schools. Parents cannot be there to watch what happens in school all day.

 

[citation needed]

 

 

 

6. They provide virtually NO tools for parents who want to monitor their kids' activity. I know, because I am one, and I have corresponded with other parents who want to keep track of how and when their kids play but cannot.

 

I agree with you.

 

 

 

 

 

I think the point I'm trying to make is if Jagex actually is promoting their game to children and still claim a "only 13+"-policy, then you are completely correct in everything. However, I've yet to see something else than just baseless assumptions.

 

 

 

I understand your points and to a certain degree I agree with you. Jagex should provide better tools for parents to monitor, but not hurt their business plan by making the game less accessible. And I certainly don't believe that they're purposely speculating in having children play a game that's not suitable for them.

 

 

 

Edit: I mistook someone here for accurately citing the 13+ rule, which means some of my arguments were considerably weakened. Currently, it reads:

 

If you are under 13 years old, you must not create an account. We don't knowingly permit anyone under 13 to use this website. Nor do we knowingly collect any personally identifiable information from preteens. Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online. And the game difficulty level is for teenagers and older.

 

 

 

While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough. Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game. Many parents have reported that playing the Game as a family is fun and rewarding. Then when your children are 13 they will be ready for their own account.

[lord_british]

4. If a five year old can register on rs and understand how to play it then PIGS CAN FLY!!!! (i tried playing at 9 and i couldnt understand how to register!)

 

 

 

:shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

enough said ;)

[qeltar]

To Qeltar: Im fairly sure that the book you were refering to earlier "The Official Runescape Handbook and Strategy Handbook", is written by Tracey West alone, and by her alone. Jagex had no influence in writing that book to my knowledge. I do know they were looking into if she violated any of their rights before it was published, but to my knowledge that was all their involvement with it. If someone know more about this, please be so kind and enlighten us further :)

 

 

You're mistaken. West was commissioned to write the book by Jagex, and Jagex employees were involved in its creation. The copyright notice on the book says "Copyright © 2006 Jagex Limited. All Rights Reserved." Nothing about Tracey West.

 

 

 

It was and is Jagex's book.

 

 

 

I have a copy of it right in front of me. The writing, the style and the text are all clearly indicative of a book targeted at children.

 

 

I read your article and I have to say I find it a bit biased and anti-jagex.

 

 

Yes, the article is rather harsh. Bear in mind that it was written months ago, at a time when Jagex had delivered a swift slap in the face to law-abiding players by legalizing wilderness luring. They compounded that mistake by sending their F mod lackies into the forums to shut down anyone who tried to inform others of this or, heaven forbid, complain about it.

 

 

 

When that happened, and I found out about the kiddie guide they made to the game, I got quite angry. I was not alone.

 

 

 

The game has gotten better now, but not enough.

 

 

Since RuneScape is limited to users aged 13 and older, I feel its the parents responsibility to monitor and guard their child while being on the internet.

 

 

Parents are responsible for monitoring their children. Corporations are responsible for not marketing products to children if they are intended for teens and adults. One does not absolve the other.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then why is the content 13+?

 

 

Is it? How many times per day do we read complaints about the game having been "dumbed down", made "too easy", given too many new "help features", etc.?

 

 

One book. Honestly I don't know what to say. I'm quite amazed that the guide was advertized, however could you give me the link? I really want to check it to avoid jumping to conclusion.

 

 

It's not just "one book". It's the only official guide to the game, made by Jagex and marketed directly to kids using a kids' book publisher. Why would they do that?

 

 

 

Here's a link to the book. Note the age range? "9 and up".

 

 

 

How about this?

 

 

Review by: Jaret B.

 

New York, Grade 4

 

 

 

The book is interesting because it tells you about you starting the game and beating the game and about how to do the last quest.

 

 

 

I like the book because it tells you where you might need to go for quests and to get your stats up in the game and it tells you where you can go to train and to pickpocket people like men and women and guards and other people and where to buy items like arrows and armor and all that other stuff.

 

 

I guess he's just a 13 year old who got held back? :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read it, it's still a ridiculous extreme. What exactly shows otherwise?

 

 

Personal experience by many people who know very young kids playing it.

 

 

But if this is article is about the time before the 13+ rule then the problem has already been solved, the parent must accompany the child through the steps and therefore can shield the child.

 

 

 

You're not looking at the issue rationally.

[lord_british]

5. They market the game directly to kids, in schools. Parents cannot be there to watch what happens in school all day.

 

[citation needed]

 

Please, please, for the love of all that is sane in this world, go read pages ONE and TWO of this thread.

 

 

 

I think the point I'm trying to make is if Jagex actually is promoting their game to children and still claim a "only 13+"-policy, then you are completely correct in everything.

 

Proven, time and again on this thread alone. PLEASE, go read it.

 

 

 

I understand your points and to a certain degree I agree with you. Jagex should provide better tools for parents to monitor, but not hurt their business plan by making the game less accessible. And I certainly don't believe that they're purposely speculating in having children play a game that's not suitable for them.

 

Providing better tools for people to help their children would not in any way detract from their business. Indeed, I believe it would only help them, by the very least, showing they care enough. (whether they actually do or not is another matter :roll: )

 

 

 

Edit: I mistook someone here for accurately citing the 13+ rule, which means some of my arguments were considerably weakened. Currently, it reads:

 

If you are under 13 years old, you must not create an account. We don't knowingly permit anyone under 13 to use this website. Nor do we knowingly collect any personally identifiable information from preteens. Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online. And the game difficulty level is for teenagers and older.

 

 

 

While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough. Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game. Many parents have reported that playing the Game as a family is fun and rewarding. Then when your children are 13 they will be ready for their own account.

 

 

 

This is the new compliance with the American COPPA act, already covered, in detail on first two pages of this thread. PLEASE read it :wall: :ohnoes: :ohnoes:

[supanova]

i haven't been on since i posted but i never thought this thread would attract this much attention so quickly :shock:

 

 

 

there have been some really interesting points made, and i look forward to hearing more people's views :)

[lazy_k]

5. They market the game directly to kids, in schools. Parents cannot be there to watch what happens in school all day.

 

[citation needed]

 

Please, please, for the love of all that is sane in this world, go read pages ONE and TWO of this thread.

 

I did before I posted my first post. I wanted more information about the book in question before I saw it as 'definite proof', which Qeltar provided after I posted. I still want to know if the age recommendation was set by Jagex themselves or by Scholastic Educational Material. (Yes, this matters. )

 

 

 

Also, children under 13 are allowed to play if they play with a parent, and since Jagex consider their game to be "educational" they might very well be advertising this without hypocrisy... technically at least.

 

 

 

 

Review by: Jaret B.

 

New York, Grade 4

 

 

 

The book is interesting because it tells you about you starting the game and beating the game and about how to do the last quest.

 

 

 

I like the book because it tells you where you might need to go for quests and to get your stats up in the game and it tells you where you can go to train and to pickpocket people like men and women and guards and other people and where to buy items like arrows and armor and all that other stuff.

 

 

For all you know he could be both reading the book and playing with his parents though.

 

 

 

I think the point I'm trying to make is if Jagex actually is promoting their game to children and still claim a "only 13+"-policy, then you are completely correct in everything.

 

Proven, time and again on this thread alone. PLEASE, go read it.

 

I read it already! Stop telling me to please go read things!

 

 

 

I understand your points and to a certain degree I agree with you. Jagex should provide better tools for parents to monitor, but not hurt their business plan by making the game less accessible. And I certainly don't believe that they're purposely speculating in having children play a game that's not suitable for them.

 

Providing better tools for people to help their children would not in any way detract from their business. Indeed, I believe it would only help them, by the very least, showing they care enough. (whether they actually do or not is another matter :roll: )

 

I agree with that as I stated.

 

 

 

Edit: I mistook someone here for accurately citing the 13+ rule, which means some of my arguments were considerably weakened. Currently, it reads:

 

If you are under 13 years old, you must not create an account. We don't knowingly permit anyone under 13 to use this website. Nor do we knowingly collect any personally identifiable information from preteens. Internet safety experts have advised that preteens do not fully appreciate the risk of providing too much personal information online or communicating with strangers they encounter online. And the game difficulty level is for teenagers and older.

 

 

 

While we appreciate that many preteens would want to use our websites, we urge parents to instruct their children not to lie about their age so as to be able to use our websites before they are old enough. Instead, we recommend that parents set up an account and play together with their preteens who are otherwise too young to play the Game. Many parents have reported that playing the Game as a family is fun and rewarding. Then when your children are 13 they will be ready for their own account.

 

 

 

This is the new compliance with the American COPPA act, already covered, in detail on first two pages of this thread. PLEASE read it :wall: :ohnoes: :ohnoes:

 

Just elaborating on that (because of me wording it very poorly). I believed the rule went something like "Anyone under the age of 13 can still play with their parents approval" and made arguments out of that, then afterwards I read the information I quoted and it turned out the rule wasn't like that all.

[Solidus_77]

Parents are responsible for monitoring their children. Corporations are responsible for not marketing products to children if they are intended for teens and adults. One does not absolve the other.

 

 

 

In that case they should control their audience better since obviously as you said, the content in the game (although I disagree on some parts)

 

 

 

Is it? How many times per day do we read complaints about the game having been "dumbed down", made "too easy", given too many new "help features", etc.?

 

 

 

Those are people who basically say "I hard a hard time when i started playing so other people shouldn't". You prove that it was done in order to favor younger audience. For example, the tutors are often debated as being unnecessary but the people saying that are people who basically say in their mind "hey, i never got them when I started, so why should new players have them?" and then, too afraid to face the truth of "life's not fair", they make up a reason that satisfies them. Those complaints, in my opinion, are therefore based on biased assumptions and correlations. The people saying those things are also, to a certain extent, egocentric because they are simply annoyed that they didn't get those features at the time.

 

 

 

I believe that the skill tutors and such updates are to lower the steep learning curve. From what friends have told me, the steep learning curve at the start really can drive players (of all ages away), which is not a good thing. Sure, when I play an online game now, the first thing I do is check the manual to get info on how to play, but the truth is most people do not -- especially when it's their first MMO . The people who complain are people who are proud to have passed the learning curve and complain when their bragging rights are taken away. Now conquering ignorance may be an intersting challenge in some people's eyes however in Jagex's eyes it's not good for business so they make the game more user-friendly so that not everyone has to learn the "hard way". These are designed to stop ignorance (which is quite a normal thing at the beginning, no offense) however this does not assume that the game is aimed at pre-teens. While looking at all forms of idiocy I have noticed that age is not that decisive a factor. What I mean is that teens are perfectly capable of the same kinds of idiocy (or, arguably even more) than that observed by pre-teens so no, I do not believe that those updates are targeting pre-teens but instead targeting new players who are not always pre-teens but can be just as, if not more, ignorant.

 

 

 

It's not just "one book". It's the only official guide to the game, made by Jagex and marketed directly to kids using a kids' book publisher. Why would they do that?

 

 

 

Good question. Frankly I'm starting to wonder myself. Considering the timeframe and the circumstances, I'm starting to understand your side of the story a lot more now.

 

 

 

Here's a link to the book. Note the age range? "9 and up".

 

 

 

That is quite scary, and you're sure that they were the ones who labeled it as 9 and up? and is it correct to assume that the 9 and up refers to the game related to the book and not just the book?

 

 

 

Needless to say, especially with the crap about luring, I can understand why you'd feel pretty pissed.

 

 

 

 

How about this?

 

 

Review by: Jaret B.

 

New York, Grade 4

 

 

 

The book is interesting because it tells you about you starting the game and beating the game and about how to do the last quest.

 

 

 

I like the book because it tells you where you might need to go for quests and to get your stats up in the game and it tells you where you can go to train and to pickpocket people like men and women and guards and other people and where to buy items like arrows and armor and all that other stuff.

 

 

I guess he's just a 13 year old who got held back? :)

 

 

 

What's even more interesting is when you compare that review to 6th grader's review :lol:

 

 

 

Personal experience by many people who know very young kids playing it.

 

 

 

And how do they manage to do it at the age when they're learning the alphabet? Honestly, I'm curious.

 

 

 

 

You're not looking at the issue rationally.

 

 

 

probably because I have a hard time accepting that they made this game for pre-teens.

 

 

 

As for everyone who deny the presence of "hornballs", from what I've seen, if there is a female character in the area she becomes the center of attention immediately with flirts and suggestive comments about body parts.Some kids just can't control themselves and when I saw what qeltar used to describe them I laughed so much; it was so funny and so true. I can't believe that people are so desperate for an online date but hey, that's another matter.