Jmod quote from RSOF regarding real world trading

[mario_sunny]

I found an interesting quote while scanning through the RSOF's Duel Arena rants sticky. With no personal comment, here is the quote, with player names censored out:

 

 

 

Mod Mark H

 

Jagex Mod

 

 

 

20-Nov-2007 19:40:06

 

**********: No, oddly enough this isn't the only thing we have done.

 

 

 

Let me set the record the straight for you, we can ban a lot of gold farmers, we *do* ban a lot of gold farmers.

 

 

 

The problem is, that doesn't stop them. They come back, and they can continue coming back over and over again because they have the time and resources for it.

 

 

 

We need to stop this problem at the source, and we are taking measures to do this.

 

 

 

This is one way we can limit how they transfer money. We will be working on other methods as well, implementing new systems to make Runescape a NICER game to play.

 

 

 

So many of you complained that macroers and goldfarmers were ruining the game, now we are doing something about it and if you don't want these people hogging all the resources and giving other players unfair advantages by selling them gold, I am afraid that a few changes will need to be made.

 

 

 

What would you prefer...

 

 

 

1) A Runescape with no cheating, or unfairness?

 

2) One less way to make money.

 

 

 

I know that's simplifying the situation heavily, but it boils down to that.

 

 

 

We know this would have major changes and sadly cause loyal members to quit. But we wouldn't be doing it if we could resolve it another way.

 

 

 

~ MMH ~

 

 

 

The Duel Arena Update

 

Quick find code: 27-28-630-54011496 : page 378

[Latinoking]

Why couldn't they just say. "Hey, Runescapeiers today we're going to put a 3k in 15 min rule for Duel Arena. Due to the fact this is a source on how gold is transfer. Remember to read the rules in knowledge base."

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of saying that this is a brillant update and lying to us in some ways.

[Infernosage4]

I don't understand why they had to stop it this way. Why not make it so the stakes have to be even or within a certain amount of money. That way people can stake just the same as they used to and it stops RWT.

[berbatovsky]

Wow thats basically exactly what I thought was the reason behind the update(I'm sure its not as black and white as that but still), its a bit stark to see it written by a JMOD. Looks like Qeltar WAS deceived...wheres the godamn justice.

[cyco]

Rofl. I bet no traders even used this way. The most blatant easy method still works.

[berbatovsky]

Rofl. I bet no traders even used this way. The most blatant easy method still works.

 

 

 

TONS of stakers RWT'ed by using the duel arena, it was one of the biggest problems in the game.

[FooK-A-Ji]

I agree with Mod Mark.

[Adam007]

Hahaha! He's using the two extremes fallacy. That's an actual form of propaganda. If we're giving jagex the thumbs up to go ahead with plan 1 over 2 in every situation, we might as well jump ship now. I hope they don't take that route. For the sake of this game.

[Chaos_Reborn]

I've never been too interested in Jagex and their remove-autoers campaign, and I thought most autoer prevention methods were and still are bad, including this new duel arena thing which I don't understand any of. I'm even skeptical about the duel arena being used as a transfer method of cash; there are tons of other easier methods that we don't even have to mention, and through the wilderness too by killing your own autoer holding cash.

 

 

 

Autoers... I don't know. I am completely content playing a game like Runescape with autoers in it and have no problems with their presence. The people that buy stuff profit from them, while those that produce stuff are affected negatively so I understand why they're a concern.

[berbatovsky]

I've never been too interested in Jagex and their remove-autoers campaign, and I thought most autoer prevention methods were and still are bad, including this new duel arena thing which I don't understand any of. I'm even skeptical about the duel arena being used as a transfer method of cash; there are tons of other easier methods that we don't even have to mention, and through the wilderness too by killing your own autoer holding cash.

 

 

 

Autoers... I don't know. I am completely content playing a game like Runescape with autoers in it and have no problems with their presence. The people that buy stuff profit from them, while those that produce stuff are affected negatively so I understand why they're a concern.

 

 

 

As i said on the big 'update killed runescape' topic RWTing in the duel arena was for all intents and purposes impossible to track and 'fix' unlike normal trades. It WAS the haven of real world traders who knew they were basically untouchable. Maybe Jagex is being a bit callous but i guarantee this has worked.

[FooK-A-Ji]

Hahaha! He's using the two extremes fallacy. That's an actual form of propaganda. If we're giving jagex the thumbs up to go ahead with plan 1 over 2 in every situation, we might as well jump ship now. I hope they don't take that route. For the sake of this game.

 

I'd like to see alot of people jump ship to be honest.

 

Seeing as nobody seems to have any respect for the people who put time and effort into making the game, they shouldn't have any respect for the people RENTING their chars. Yes, you rent them, so don't fool yourselves into thinking that you actually have anything at all to say.

[DarkDude]

I don't understand why they had to stop it this way. Why not make it so the stakes have to be even or within a certain amount of money. That way people can stake just the same as they used to and it stops RWT.

 

 

 

This wouldn't work, I suggested the same thing just after the update came out then realised/was told by Paul that it wouldn't work.

 

 

 

They'd still be able to real world item trade, I assume the person buying has atleast some money, this would quickly double until they had the full amount.

 

 

 

It'd only take 10 duels to get from 2,000gp to 1,024,000gp. And I assume the person buying has even a bit more money than that making it go up a lot quicker.

 

 

 

Wrote that in another topic.

[Adam007]

Hahaha! He's using the two extremes fallacy. That's an actual form of propaganda. If we're giving jagex the thumbs up to go ahead with plan 1 over 2 in every situation, we might as well jump ship now. I hope they don't take that route. For the sake of this game.

 

I'd like to see alot of people jump ship to be honest.

 

Seeing as nobody seems to have any respect for the people who put time and effort into making the game, they shouldn't have any respect for the people RENTING their chars. Yes, you rent them, so don't fool yourselves into thinking that you actually have anything at all to say.

 

Yeah, we're renting characters, but with real money. We have leverage. It's not an issue of respect. Because we're playing this game over other games we have respect for the game and it's makers. We just don't respect this particular choice of the game's makers. By playing it we're required to respect their every choice just because?

[warren211]

Umm... maybe I'm misunderstanding something but...

 

 

 

In order to duel, you need 2 computers right? one for one person, the other computer for the other person.

 

 

 

 

 

So how did this stop any rule breakers? can't they just trade the items instead of having it staked? what was accomplished?

[x1992x]

its weird, i never heard of trading though dueling until now :XD:

[Esper_Jones]

I don't understand why they had to stop it this way. Why not make it so the stakes have to be even or within a certain amount of money. That way people can stake just the same as they used to and it stops RWT.

 

 

 

Because you can just have two people stake the same amount, then have one person keep losing on purpose. Rinse and repeat.

[Latinoking]

Hahaha! He's using the two extremes fallacy. That's an actual form of propaganda. If we're giving jagex the thumbs up to go ahead with plan 1 over 2 in every situation, we might as well jump ship now. I hope they don't take that route. For the sake of this game.

 

Seening as how people are pissed off about this one. I wonder when GE is introduce how'd that affect trades. They say they want it to make it scam proof but I bet since they already did lie to Qeltar that this is another way to attack RWT and hurt honest players in the end.

 

 

 

I wonder how the hell their new games is going to be if they keep doing this to RuneScape. Bunch of 22 year olds clowns imo. They said they give the 3k limit a thought but most likely just decided 3k and didn't care about the rest.

 

 

 

No, I didn't make that much money staking but stakers helped keep demanded off raw materials....now I dunno. Maybe they should hurry up the 5 year min. to 2 and see if anyone stays and be's loyal to a messed up company.

 

 

 

what was accomplished?

 

Nothing. I mean they still got wilderness, drop trading. Their change to RWT just made cheaters look for a new way. That's all.

[Chaos_Reborn]

But I still think some people are attacking Jagex too early, they just implemented these new stuff a day ago. Surely they'll change things after a few days or weeks, seeing the negative responses.

[SupportMage]

Umm... maybe I'm misunderstanding something but...

 

 

 

In order to duel, you need 2 computers right? one for one person, the other computer for the other person.

 

 

 

 

 

So how did this stop any rule breakers? can't they just trade the items instead of having it staked? what was accomplished?

 

 

 

That's really easy to find out. RWT's used the staking method and could pass it off as bad luck, making undetectable.

[FooK-A-Ji]

Hahaha! He's using the two extremes fallacy. That's an actual form of propaganda. If we're giving jagex the thumbs up to go ahead with plan 1 over 2 in every situation, we might as well jump ship now. I hope they don't take that route. For the sake of this game.

 

I'd like to see alot of people jump ship to be honest.

 

Seeing as nobody seems to have any respect for the people who put time and effort into making the game, they shouldn't have any respect for the people RENTING their chars. Yes, you rent them, so don't fool yourselves into thinking that you actually have anything at all to say.

 

Yeah, we're renting characters, but with real money. We have leverage. It's not an issue of respect. Because we're playing this game over other games we have respect for the game and it's makers. We just don't respect this particular choice of the game's makers. By playing it we're required to respect their every choice just because?

 

 

 

Of course you're using real money, that changes nothing. You're still renting it and I advise you to read up on what your entitled to do with ur rs char, and NOT do, and truth be told they can ban ur char for any reason they want, even if ur paying them money, okay?

 

With that in place, no, you don't have to respect every choice, but you don't have to demand a change either.

 

 

 

And what you say goes both ways, they don't have to respect any choice by the gamer as well.

[kemikalkadet]

The thing is, the one thing i really don't understand and that annoys me greatly: What's to stop the people that traded via the duel arena before, just going into the wild and have one person die to transfer the goods. In the wild it's even less controlled than the duel arena. Since tehy can track trades, logically it doesnt seem that hard to track duels too.. whereas its near impossible to track who loots a deathpile.

 

 

 

Using the logic that Jagex used with this whole staking thing.. they should do the same for the wild. 'Only allowed 3k in items over the ditch' or something like that. (disclaimer: i'm not actually suggesting this.. its just logical that they should if they were serious with their motives behind the staking nerf.)

 

 

 

I had a theory on why they might have stopped staking. I have no actuall evidence or anything and its purely speculative, but basically staking is just the same as gambling except with no age limit.. perhaps they were tryng to protect themselves from a lawsuit? :-k As qeltar has said, they're either being plain dumb, or deceptive.

[Latinoking]

Using the logic that Jagex used with this whole staking thing.. they should do the same for the wild. 'Only allowed 3k in items over the ditch' or something like that. (disclaimer: i'm not actually suggesting this.. its just logical that they should if they were serious with their motives behind the staking nerf.)

 

 

 

That's impossible if they use both market and player value. Take a Iron dagger and hope for a kill if they put 3k in wilderness. :|

[--fistofbeast--]

I say, good for Jagex. This is a great step towards stopping rl trading. Even if there was a new rule that makes players stake exact amounts, they'll just stake that and then own the gold farming noob. That would do nothing for the purpose. RL trading was a huge problem in the game, and will probably still be for awhile. It looks like they are taking steps to stop this, and seeing how much everyone complains on here about it being such a problem, I'd like to see some sacrafices willing to be made.

 

 

 

On another point, staking was not a major source of income for to many people. Sure, some people made all their riches from it, but not alot. Most of us would only duel to blow some time. You still have an option, which is better than no option. There are still more than enough ways to make money for them out there. If the stakers are any good, maybe they could move to the wild? Looks like it's time to roll with the changes and get on with it. I for one am fine with the update being here to stay.

 

 

 

EDIT: And to those saying just go to the wild, this won't be as easy as it looks. As you can see by roaming f2p, most of the autoers are level 3 characters. No accounts over level 60 are going to be able to attack the level threes in the wild. You may say that they will just use lvl 40's etc. to trade, but that makes a great deal more stress on the autoers/goldfarmers with transferring and trading and all that, which should slow it up immensely.

 

 

 

And any other ways of trading, such as dieing can be alot riskier. Some auto noob dies somewhere, maybe the buyer loses connection, someone else walks up. All this would help people opt not to purchase gold, and I think with a few more steps, Jagex will finally have a one up on bots and farmers.

[berbatovsky]

The thing is, the one thing i really don't understand and that annoys me greatly: What's to stop the people that traded via the duel arena before, just going into the wild and have one person die to transfer the goods. In the wild it's even less controlled than the duel arena. Since tehy can track trades, logically it doesnt seem that hard to track duels too.. whereas its near impossible to track who loots a deathpile.

 

 

 

Using the logic that Jagex used with this whole staking thing.. they should do the same for the wild. 'Only allowed 3k in items over the ditch' or something like that. (disclaimer: i'm not actually suggesting this.. its just logical that they should if they were serious with their motives behind the staking nerf.)

 

 

 

I had a theory on why they might have stopped staking. I have no actuall evidence or anything and its purely speculative, but basically staking is just the same as gambling except with no age limit.. perhaps they were tryng to protect themselves from a lawsuit? :-k As qeltar has said, they're either being plain dumb, or deceptive.

 

 

 

Couple reasons:

 

1)Not many people would be willing to 'trade' this way in the wildy

 

2)PKERS could very easily destroy the 'trade'

 

 

 

I'll say it again: RWTing through the duel arena was (nigh on)IMPOSSIBLE to track, normal trades are EASY to track. The duel arena was where all the serious real world trading went on, hence the literally thousands of stakers banned this year (including some of the richest people in the game). The Duel Arena might as well of been called the 'clever players secret black market'.

 

 

 

Edit: I know a lot of people are confused so I'll try and make it more clear what I think is going on.

 

 

 

Jagex got a lot of negative feedback from the users (us) with regards to Gold farmers, autoers, drop traders and real world traders. Jagex KNOWS that all of the rule breakers are basically a criminal syndicate, they all work towards the same goal. Jagex THINKS its found a pivotal link in the chain, I.e: real world trading through the arena. In Jagex's eyes now is the time to win, now they can cripple these bastards who are ruining their game and costing them money.

[Latinoking]

I say, good for Jagex. This is a great step towards stopping rl trading.

 

This isn't a great step. This is epic failure.