Will future bots be almost impossible to detect?

[ixfd64]

Over the history of RuneScape, there have been constant cat-and-mouse wars between Jagex and macros and bots. Jagex often updates the game to make this type of cheating more difficult, yet cheaters still find ways around such updates.

 

 

 

For those of you who may be curious, here is a brief history of macro use (actual program names are not listed in order to discourage people from searching for them):

 

 

 

The first-generation macros were very primitive. These macros simply recorded and replayed certain sequences of mouse clicks or keystrokes. In fact, many of these macros were made to help people with repetitive tasks and were not specifically designed for RuneScape. The auto-clicking macros were mainly used for collecting stackable items, fishing, and mining, while the keystroke macros were used to keep a player logged in, often in a place with aggresive monsters. Jagex tried to combat this type of macro by making the screen shift occasionally, but it was mostly ineffective. Jagex also made monsters below half the player's level unaggressive, and it was somewhat useful.

 

 

 

There were not many second-generation macros, except for one made by Vee and some color-based clickers made by Evil Cowgod. The former was the first bot to interact with the server directly, and could do things that normal macros could not do, such as follow a monster. Players could disrupt these macros easily by trapping them into certain areas and closing the door or gate. All macros became ineffective when Jagex added the fatigue system.

 

 

 

The third-generation macros were bots that could be scripted. There were many of them, and two of the most infamous ones were made by Kaitnieks. These allowed players to automate even more tasks and level skills that could not be easily done with first- or second-generation programs, such as smithing. Many of these were made to work with OCR programs designed to work with the RS fatigue system. Jagex was able to stop many of these programs using advanced detection systems and by changing certain communication protocols.

 

 

 

The fourth-generation macros are the same as the third-generation ones, except that they worked on RS2. In recent times, these bots have been mainly used by gold farmers rather than members of major cheating communities. The newer ones offer more advanced scripting, and could communicate with other bots.

 

 

 

So here's my question. Will future bots be almost impossible to detect, especially if they do not interact directly with Jagex servers? Granted, artificial intelligence is a very difficult problem, and so far, even the world's best computer scientists have been unable to make a program think exactly like a real human. However, with advanced programming, bots could respond to messages almost like a human would.

 

 

 

Scary thought, eh?

[Reztral]

This is similar to crime in real life. The macroers (the criminal) will usually, at least for a short time, be ahead of the police (Jagex). This is the sad reality, as no computer program is perfect at detecting whatever it is designed to detect.

[DaOnLyJoSh]

Good information, it really makes you think.

 

 

 

But, seeing as even the best computer scientists cannot make a program think like a human, I don't think they will go so far as to be undetectable.

[Iamdan]

There are a couple errors in that, but to answer the question:

 

 

 

Yes. A bot that injects packets made with BCEL is being developed, and is basically finished. There is another undetectable bot which costs money. There is another undetectable bot out for years that is a little less powerful than the first 2, and you can only macro 1 account at once. There are also various private macros, I don't know all of them but the ones I do know of are undetectable.

[InkofDeath]

When bots can avoid detection by Jagex, that is when Jagex is not doing their job.

 

 

 

If bots ever could avoid detection they'd be easily detectable as other accounts would use the same motion, and patterns when confronted with a complex pattern in-game(such a a complex random event).

 

 

 

Then again if someone can develope a software program that doesn't repeat a pattern, and its actions are different in any case, and only similar enough to look like human motions/actions, then yes it may be difficult for Jagex to detect.

 

 

 

But by that time, software to prevent this will be available, and in-game activities will stop this. -.-

[gordhammer1]

it is a definite that the macro programs will become unbelievably complex, but so will jagex's detection systems. if macro's can get hold of programs, or create them, to beat jagex's systems. there is no reason that jagex cant combat it just as they are trying to do now.

[hiddel]

they already are pretty impossible to detect.

[Iamdan]

 

If bots ever could avoid detection they'd be easily detectable as other accounts would use the same motion, and patterns when confronted with a complex pattern in-game(such a a complex random event).

 

 

 

Macros are easily made unique for every single event done. (In Jagex's eyes)

 

 

 

2 words: Random intervals.

[monkeyboo2]

Good History, but i can't see bots responding to players for atleast a decade.

 

 

 

However i've always wondered why scripter don't make pairs of bots that talk in a cycle between each other. Also bots become harder to detect with pattern randomisers and by not wearing green clothes and being lvl 3.

 

 

 

A lvl 45 bot that talked to its 'friend' and wasn't wearing green clothes with a less detectable pattenrn would be quite convincing. :S thinking about it, they might already have done it. :ohnoes:

[primadog]

If a bot is truly undetectable, then all the effort and money spent on combating bots are all worthwhile, because we have finally created a AI that can beat the Turning Test.

 

 

 

if the judge cannot reliably tell which is which, then the machine is said to pass the test

 

 

 

Given the amount of work in RL done towards beating the test and failed, I have my reservations about when the botters can do so. In the end, all bot functions are scripted, let any experienced players watch them and it's easy to tell who's who. The problem right now is JaGeX is not utilizing their large player resource effectively. Make a system stronger than reporting and we'll decimate botters.

[IAm314159]

If bots get more advanced as time goes by, WE (Jagex included) will have to step up efforts to root them out.

 

 

 

It is theoretically possible for bots to become so advanced that the artificial intelligence within them will be equivalent to that of any normal RuneScape player. Thus, I propose that Jagex employ more people to work on the bot situation. Not to mention us ourselves, who are extremely crucial in the fight against some group of mindless robots.

 

 

 

I HATE THOSE -BLEEP- BOTS! :evil:

[IAm314159]

If a bot is truly undetectable, then all the effort and money spent on combating bots are all worthwhile, because we have finally created a AI that can beat the Turning Test.

 

 

 

if the judge cannot reliably tell which is which, then the machine is said to pass the test

 

 

 

Given the amount of work in RL done towards beating the test and failed, I have my reservations about when the botters can do so. In the end, all bot functions are scripted, let any experienced players watch them and it's easy to tell who's who. The problem right now is JaGeX is not utilizing their large player resource effectively. Make a system stronger than reporting and we'll decimate botters.

 

If a bot can pass the Turing Test, I MUST say it will be a turning point in the history of mankind. Most of the current bots nowadays can't even engage in conversation (pardon me if I am mistaken).

 

 

 

Perhaps in the future it will be "That's one small step for a bot, one giant leap for mankind."

[IAm314159]

I think the Report Abuse function has to be revamped. It has to allow players to report bots more effectively, not have them waiting for 30-second intervals. GRR

 

 

 

And we also need the help of players to weed out those -BLEEP- bots. If that happens, the number of bots will be decreased drastically.

[Iamdan]

 

If a bot can pass the Turing Test, I MUST say it will be a turning point in the history of mankind. Most of the current bots nowadays can't even engage in conversation (pardon me if I am mistaken).

 

Perhaps in the future it will be "That's one small step for a bot, one giant leap for mankind."

 

 

 

There are auto responders, how effective they are depends on the time put into it. When I used to macro, I made a very nice auto responder. I kept logs of everything that happened, and there were entire conversations between my macros and players that thought they were talking to real people.

[IAm314159]

 

If a bot can pass the Turing Test, I MUST say it will be a turning point in the history of mankind. Most of the current bots nowadays can't even engage in conversation (pardon me if I am mistaken).

 

Perhaps in the future it will be "That's one small step for a bot, one giant leap for mankind."

 

 

 

There are auto responders, how effective they are depends on the time put into it. When I used to macro, I made a very nice auto responder. I kept logs of everything that happened, and there were entire conversations between my macros and players that thought they were talking to real people.

 

I don't mean any normal conversation. I mean the bot must be able to LEARN and respond to any normal person outside of his woodcutting area. The bot must LEARN. LEARN!

[Iamdan]

Well a bot that learns won't happen, the closest I had was if my bot asked for a stat, if it was over a certain amount make a comment about it later on, asking how he took the time to get it, saying its high, saying I could never be bothered to get that level or something.

 

 

 

A bot that learns isn't necessary to be undetectable, however if somebody took the time to come up with one Jagex would be in serious trouble, and the person that made it would be looking forward to a high paying career.

[InkofDeath]

 

If bots ever could avoid detection they'd be easily detectable as other accounts would use the same motion, and patterns when confronted with a complex pattern in-game(such a a complex random event).

 

 

 

Macros are easily made unique for every single event done. (In Jagex's eyes)

 

 

 

2 words: Random intervals.

 

Or Random Generated Text, or whatever that program is called(forgot).

[Duke_Freedom]

Theoretically, yes.

 

 

 

In practice the botting will always remain a cat-and-mice game that neither party will ever win indefinitely though. Jagex dealt some death-blows through the history but on overall I would say the botters had the upper-hand most of the time.

 

 

 

In the end game companies "can" limit botting significantly by requiring RL identification, as is done in various asian MMORPGs already.

[blacksimon]

the bot that was mainly in use during 2005 was undetectable

 

 

 

If jagex hadn't threatened the owner to shut it down, it would still be undetectable.

 

 

 

If anyone does anything like that and keeps underground, we may well see another (cant say name I guess)

 

 

 

it was a flawless bot that used direct java commands, not mouse clicks

[Iamdan]

the bot that was mainly in use during 2005 was undetectable

 

 

 

If jagex hadn't threatened the owner to shut it down, it would still be undetectable.

 

 

 

If anyone does anything like that and keeps underground, we may well see another (cant say name I guess)

 

 

 

it was a flawless bot that used direct java commands, not mouse clicks

 

 

 

Are you talking about Arian? I'm pretty sure we are allowed to say bot names that don't exist anymore

[Smackapotato]

It seems strange to me that someone(or many someones) would go to such lengths for a simple game such a Runescape. I guess it's worth it for them though, otherwise they would have stopped trying by now.

 

 

 

But as long as they feel it's worth their time to make these macro's and develop new scripts for them then I guess they will keep doing so. Hopefully JaGex will find some way to stop them before they get to such and advanced point as the one you mentioned.

[Bobbington]

The fact is bots are constantly evolving, and become harder to spot.

 

 

 

I think Jagex have noticed this trend and are taking the correct steps towards it.

 

 

 

Rather than focusing on the banning of bots which are free, and easy to replace in a very short time period they are trying to take away their business.

 

 

 

Destroying their websites

 

Banning their customers

 

Stopping their methods of transferring gold

 

 

 

Sadly bots are not the issue...... it's what the bots are doing.

 

 

 

I will be very interested when the ICU development diary comes out this month looking at the bot issue, I am also very surprised as it seems to be the first major Games company to publicly acknowledge the gold farming issue.

[Adam007]

If jagex goes along with their trend and makes it completely impossible to transfer items on a onesided basis, they won't have to even worry about bots anymore since bots won't be able to transfer their items.

[aoe325]

Wanna hear something scary? (sorry if already posted)

 

 

 

The third generation bots had gone so far and so deep in Runescape that they could do things you normally could NOT do in the game! An example is the well known phat dupe, where a scriptable-auto program was used to create alot of copies of these items.

[W00tpecked]

"What can be made, can be bypassed."

 

 

 

Sure they will make over technical macros, but Jagex well almost certainly find a 'Way' to detect them.

 

 

 

~W00tpeckeR