PHATS AND MASKS

[gadien01]

This is the only idea that seems to come close to being fair to eveyone who bought, sold, or plans on buying a phat. If you haven't read it please read it carefully, it makes sense if they make the price of rares at this little store the current market price. Just read it duke.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?t=253802

[Duke_Freedom]

Yes, I've seen and read it (not the quest part :P).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a few questions about your version of this often suggested 'solution': Would the shop also buy the tradable rares? Are the prices static?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, stopping the price increase of rares is only half of the 'problem'. Jagex (and everyone who is against rares) principally and fundamentally doesn't like the rares prices to be so high in price and thus will never want them to be for sale at such a price in a shop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For a 'good' solution, one of the following things is required (otherwise there is no reason to change anything at all).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- all rares are buyable for several gps.

 

 

 

- all rares are permanently removed from the game.

 

 

 

- all rares are made untradable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But even if only a price stabalization was the requirement your suggestion will have too much impact on the whole economy, slightly depending on the answers you give on the questions I asked above.

[magekillr]

i believe that there never will b a solution...just too far into the game to do anything about it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just move on and accept it...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i got hacked/grounded/computer broke for like 8 months...so i basically have no chance at getting a p hat besides purple-red...even though i had several sets b4 this occured and id be 10x richer by now...maybe even more

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but...thats all in the past...so move on...get rid of ur jealousy of people who are richer than you and get on with your life

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

most importantly...its only a game...and these senseless arguements take away what games are meant for...FUN :D :D :D

[lpinkus]

Best discussion I've ever had on these forums.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why do people pay tons for 'cool' cars in real life? A car is a car...yet, there are enough people who buy the faster and better looking cars anyway, because they like to drive in such a 'cool' car. Now [that] we are at it, why do you even play RuneScape actually? What use does it have?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If were rich in RS, I wouldn't buy a phat, and if I were rich in real life, I wouldn't "pay tons for a cool car!" People obviously do, but I don't know why, in either case. I play RS because it's a fun way to blow off steam, yet it also becomes more fun by gaining xp and acquiring levels and skills. If I buy a phat, to me, the game does not become more enjoyable, I just get to wear a colored thing on my head. In fact, it might become less enjoyable that way: "CAN I PLZ BY YOUR PHAT? I NOOB." :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using 'the item doesn't have an use' arguement isn't valid. People pay these prices for them, so they are worth that. There's no way you can reason otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol. Well, I'm gonna try. Go to popular auction websites and you'll see the ridiculous prices people pay for silly things. The truer statement is that an item is worth whatever a individual is willing to pay. And, if one were selling me a phat, I would only be willing to pay 1gp because a) To me, it's worth no more than that, and B) I would be not reselling it, rather getting rid of it somehow. Yes, people, I'm crazy! But PM me in the game and I'll buy your phats anytime, 1 gp each.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Were paintings of famous artist worth anything when those artists were still living? In most cases - no.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I'll reveal my form of employment to field this one. I'm a music teacher, and not to toot my horn, rather to give me credibility, I have a few music degrees. From my study of music and the arts, I would say that the works of Beethoven or Matisse are not famous because they're old, they're famous beacuse they're ingenious and beautiful. And, they're not just old, they're timeless. I'm not about to use "ingenious" or "timeless" to describe a phat just yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just like you [said] yourself, Jagex probably intended them to be a sign of how long someone has been playing.

 

 

 

Making something that's a sign of how long you've been playing tradable doesn't make sense to me though, but Jagex must have looked over it back in the days...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't exactly recall saying that, but to clarify, I assume these drops were originally intented to be fun, nothing more, yet it became a monster. And I completely agree that if the item is meant to show your experience, it should not be tradeable. That's why the new ones are not tradeable, I assume. I forget if you can buy them at a shop, anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for the disks and wines, I can't say I've had any experience with those items. People also can't wear them on their person. :) And I agree, I don't think JAGeX ever meant to have the concept of a "rare" at all. Like I said, it became a monster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

[gadien01]

Yes, I've seen and read it (not the quest part :P).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a few questions about your version of this often suggested 'solution': Would the shop also buy the tradable rares? Are the prices static?

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes they would buy the rare items as well and they would static. The shop would have like 40 of each rare and would be cheaper than the current market price, but not by much. This would stop the increase of prieces. I realize its only half the problem, but this seems to be the only way to fairly solve the problem of merchanting rares because the in order to acess the shop a player would have to go through that long quest and it stops "noobs" from getting expensive items.

[Duke_Freedom]

If were rich in RS, I wouldn't buy a phat, and if I were rich in real life, I wouldn't "pay tons for a cool car!" People obviously do, but I don't know why

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If everyone reasoned like that, it would be true that rares would be worthless. But not everyone has the same idea's as you about this. People are willing to pay these high prices for various reasons, of which I already gave a few some posts earlier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The truer statement is that an item is worth whatever a individual is willing to pay. And, if one were selling me a phat, I would only be willing to pay 1gp because a) To me, it's worth no more than that, and B) I would be not reselling it, rather getting rid of it somehow. Yes, people, I'm crazy! But PM me in the game and I'll buy your phats anytime, 1 gp each.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm, you seem to forget that noone will sell you a party hat for 1gp. Let me clarify why what you say isn't true though. We'll have to define 'market value' first:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The market value of an item is the price at which most trade can take place. In other words: the price at which the most buyers and sellers agree to trade with each other".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, let's take a look at how a simplified situation of the demand and supply of a party hat could like:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Price - *Total Demand - *Total Supply

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

100mil - 25 - 10.000

 

 

 

15mil - 150 - 1.000

 

 

 

14mil - 200 - 800

 

 

 

13mil - 300 - 600

 

 

 

12mil - 400 - 400

 

 

 

11mil - 600 - 250

 

 

 

10mil - 1.000 - 100

 

 

 

1gp - 10.000 - 25

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Total Demand and Total Supply have the meaning of "The total amount of buyers / sellers willing to buy / sell at this price" here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As we can clearly see, the most trade can take place at the price of 12mil. At this price 400 people are willing to buy and the same amount of people are willing to sell. Therefore, the market value of this item would be 12mil.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would say that the works of Beethoven or Matisse are not famous because they're old, they're famous beacuse they're ingenious and beautiful. And, they're not just old, they're timeless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't really matter why the art is famous to me :P. My point was that most art didn't have any (market) value when it was created, and gained it's current value over time - just like all rares in RuneScape did.

 

 

 

It's not just a random chance that art in rl and rares in rs are similiar in that... It's a standard economic concept that they both share.

[Lode]

Never Mind

[Duke_Freedom]

It's ok the way it is now. There's no demand when the price is insanely high, and there's a huge demand when the price is ridiculously low. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The numbers after the price show how much demand (how many people are willing to buy) and supply (how many people are willing to sell) there is at that price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...Bah you already figured out before I posted :P.

[remi]

Can someone please tell me how rares can ruin the game and why thye ahve to be deleted?? i dont understand how they can ruin the game just bacause they are worth to much for most people to buy..

[LinovUSA]

i dont like this price t hing going up...i got 8 mil cash in bank, i mean should i buy it or should i not...i think id rather have cash in bank the a rare item that have achance of dropping in value..but thats just me. Oh ya and i really doubt that they will worth 200 mil or more in 10 years for one reason, alot of players will be quiting that have the masks and phats, in 10 years if rs still exsist prices for phats and masks will come down again, because of players quiting the game

[bedman]

honestly what i think they should do is delete all the current phats give each guy that had a phat the amount of money its worth and be done for holiday drops for the rest of rs history withought anyone getting mad. Then have the toy horsey seller sell the phats for next to nothing. This would cause the cheap way of makeing money because they were around since rsc. Also it would stop the people that currently have phats from being jipped.

 

 

 

i like that idea :)

 

 

 

really. then nobody whines since the phats are lost since you can buy them from horsey guy for like 100 gp. and nobody whines either about losing money since they get the amount of money that the phat is worht at the time of the deletion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

go go go with this idea!

[katsuro0]

i dont like this price t hing going up...i got 8 mil cash in bank, i mean should i buy it or should i not...i think id rather have cash in bank the a rare item that have achance of dropping in value..but thats just me. Oh ya and i really doubt that they will worth 200 mil or more in 10 years for one reason, alot of players will be quiting that have the masks and phats, in 10 years if rs still exsist prices for phats and masks will come down again, because of players quiting the game

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if there less in circulation, then the price will obviously go up :roll:

[desipardesi]

I actually read through the six pages of posts here. whew. Now its your turn to read this thesis. Take care.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will state at the start : I agree with the philosophy of "lpinkus" but the views of "Duke Freedom" in the posts before this. I dont expect to ever buy a mask or phat or any other collectible rares because bank worth by itself doesnt not mean much to me. I am more of a skills person. However, I do use my skills to earn gp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That said, I do not mind paying top dollar for items that I do like or would like to have (such as d square or abby whip) as long as I feel that it is worth their price to me. I would never pay 30 mill to show off a dchain if I can just buy a torags plate for almost a tenth of that price and which is of greater value to me in training skills. I make an exception to this rule for God armors which are not rare but which look far better to me than a hard-to-see phat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The idea of a shop selling the rares is ridiculous. Who decides the price of the rares? Is there a vote? If it is the price manipulators, they will have a field day posting threads about buying and selling rares at hundreds of millions of gp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find that a lot of what happens in the RS economy imitates real life to a large extent. The rares are like famous (or not so famous) works of art as someone posted earlier( too lazy to go back and check again). I find Picasso's paintings no better than that of my two-year old cousin's scribbles and yet I find people paying several millions for one and not the other :P.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In real life people work to earn a living on the basis of their skills as engineers (smithers/crafters) or doctors(herbalists) or as hard labor(miners/woodcutters/fishers/runecrafters) or as businessmen(merchanters). Who do you think makes the best money? Its mostly the businessmen. Just because RS doesnt have a skill called merchanting doesnt make it something that doesnt need skills. I know that I do not have the skills of a merchant ( I cannot stand more than two minutes in a place repeating the same things without wanting to get away from there).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am also glad that there are merchants in the game who would gladly buy my wares at a price lower than they can sell it at and I gladly accept the lower price for their service of selling the product on my behalf. Similarly I pay higher price for their providing the items that I seek with a lower waiting time than if I tried to find the lowest priced seller myself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Merchants are not the people making rares rise in price, it is the players who are willing to buy them at a higher price. The worth of an item is not the same for every player. While some like to spend on skills, others like to show off their money in the form of items and they are just as deserving as the person raising skills to spend as they please.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If a few pixels on the head rocks your boat, then more power to you. If a few different pixels on your skill list makes you happy, go for it. In the end the price of any item is decided by the demand and supply as Duke so explicitly explained in an earlier post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To understand the reason for rares going up in price, you just need to stand in Seers bank for a while. Count the number of people buying and selling nats or mage logs or yew logs and alching them round the clock. There is probably more RS money generated each day in Seers bank alone than the rest of RS combined. There is a continuous stream of money flowing from the alchers to the rest of the RS economy when they buy the logs/strings/nats and keep alching. Unlike other activities like mining or woodcut or fishing where the money is merely redistributed among players, alching generates gp where there was none before. You start with no gp but a lot of items (nats, and items to alch) and end up with a lot of gp. Look at the fletching and magic hiscores to know whos the leading cause of money flows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All this money flowing through the economy goes through the legion of merchanters who keep a fraction of it themselves. While some of them save for skills, a lot of others save up for items. As more and more people are within reach of the goal of obtaining a rare item and express a willingness to buy it, there are others within similar reach with a somewhat greater desire for it that is willing to pay slightly more for the item. All it needs is a push in the right direction at the right time to make the prices go higher faster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another thing to note at this time is that there are now a lot more players who spend a lot of time on the game unlike many of the players who have played for 3-4 years and are very slow trainers. The older players are usually the people who keep complaining about prices most of the time as they took longer to make the money required to buy an item than the rate of inflation. The new breed of player on the other hand just trains some skills fast and makes the money they need in a week or two and finds the time spent on getting the money too trivial to quibble about the price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know this has been a long discussion but maybe it explains things in a different light.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RSN: cuque, cbt:90, skill total:1495

[Duke_Freedom]

Yes they would buy the rare items as well and they would static. The shop would have like 40 of each rare and would be cheaper than the current market price, but not by much. This would stop the increase of prieces. I realize its only half the problem, but this seems to be the only way to fairly solve the problem of merchanting rares because the in order to acess the shop a player would have to go through that long quest and it stops "noobs" from getting expensive items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even this solution will not manage to prevent massive changes in the economy though. A few posts earlier I already explained what kind of players buy rares - now let's take a look at how they'll probably react to your solution:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Investors. The investors won't have a reason to keep their money in rares anymore (rares don't go up in price on the long-term anymore) they will pull out the worth they have in them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Merchants. The profit marges of rares-sales will probably be smaller due to such a shop. The activity of rares-trading as a whole will be lower, as many people are less or not interested in rares now. This would make the rares less attractive for merchants, so a lot of merchants would move away from the rares market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Show offs. I'm not sure what these people would do if this change happened. Let's assume they stay interested in rares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Collectors. The collectors will see less interest to collect the rares, because the idea of "one day I'll own them all" will be taken away. There will be a unlimited supply of rares and thus a big part of the collectors might not see the point in collecting the rares anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see - such a change will take away the interest in rares of many people. If the shop buys the rares for a good price too, that would only add on to the problems that already come from the lowered interest in the rares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

honestly what i think they should do is delete all the current phats give each guy that had a phat the amount of money its worth and be done for holiday drops for the rest of rs history withought anyone getting mad. Then have the toy horsey seller sell the phats for next to nothing. This would cause the cheap way of makeing money because they were around since rsc. Also it would stop the people that currently have phats from being jipped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, like I already said in a previous post. The largest problem with finding a 'good' solution is that the rares market is way too large. If it wasn't so large, this could be a solution perhaps; but we are talking about a total worth of all rares that goes into the 100+ bils.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides that, not only that huge amount of new gp introduced will have a major impact on the economy... The fact that there would be only a few items really expensive items in the game left, combined with the fact that (theoretically) there would be no items that always go up on the long-term anymore, will have a major impact on the economy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To desipardesi: Well written post. Summarizes most important things said in this thread. And yes - the rs economy is very similiar to the real economy, just a little less complicated on some area's.

[katsuro0]

honestly what i think they should do is delete all the current phats give each guy that had a phat the amount of money its worth and be done for holiday drops for the rest of rs history withought anyone getting mad. Then have the toy horsey seller sell the phats for next to nothing. This would cause the cheap way of makeing money because they were around since rsc. Also it would stop the people that currently have phats from being jipped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want to keep my santa :lol: . This is one problem associated with this. not all players buy rares for merchanting.

[Lode]

 

honestly what i think they should do is delete all the current phats give each guy that had a phat the amount of money its worth and be done for holiday drops for the rest of rs history withought anyone getting mad. Then have the toy horsey seller sell the phats for next to nothing. This would cause the cheap way of makeing money because they were around since rsc. Also it would stop the people that currently have phats from being jipped.

 

 

 

i like that idea :)

 

 

 

really. then nobody whines since the phats are lost since you can buy them from horsey guy for like 100 gp. and nobody whines either about losing money since they get the amount of money that the phat is worht at the time of the deletion

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

go go go with this idea!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Um no not really!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Currently a yellow party hat may be worth whatever, say for example 20 million, but that doesn't mean that 1000 yellow party hats are worth 20000 million, because a person with 1000 yellow party hats would never find 1000 buyers so he'll have to sell it cheaper.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I'm saying is, jagex will never insert millions of new gp's in the game, remember that party hats are worth 6gp or something like that. If jagex did this idea, the amount of money in game will maybe be doubled, and think of the inflation that would create!

[Icy_Lemonade]

 

 

 

I find that a lot of what happens in the RS economy imitates real life to a large extent. The rares are like famous (or not so famous) works of art as someone posted earlier( too lazy to go back and check again). I find Picasso's paintings no better than that of my two-year old cousin's scribbles and yet I find people paying several millions for one and not the other :P.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Off Topic:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But you don't realise that it is not the detail in the picture it is what the picture is expressing that makes a person like it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Topic:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why do people bother posting hear saying that phats and all rare items are pointless because they do nothing for skills or armor defense\attack. I mean really if they are as pointless as you guys try to say why should you complain about your competition on buying rares instead of the raw materials you need for your awesome skill leveling. As Duke said earlier without the rares many prices would greatly increase.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also some of you guys have to realise not everyone is exactly like you. People like different things, my favorite color may be green but does that mean because your favorite color is blue I can't still like green more? That is almost exactly what you guys are saying because some people do not care about skills and go for rare items and collecting while other think skills are more important, but just because people like different things doesn't mean one or the other has to stop.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Taking out all rare items and selling them in the stores will be no reason either. One reason is because when more newbies join the game after that you will just hear a lot of stuff on the forums of them complaining about some "noobs" saying phats used to not be sold in stores. As Duke said though, if people get the money for the "value" of their party hat prices of raw materials will sky rocket and (my add-on) then we will just hear all of the people complaining about phat prices being high complaining about the high raw material prices.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you take out party hats and sell them in the store also there would be no point to them. I mean really, how many people do you see walking around with a rubber chicken or yo-yo compared to party hats and masks. The reason people don't wear the rubber chickens or yo-yo's are because they are nothing to show off because they are cheap. There will be no rares if the partys hats and other rares were taken out. When taking out rare items dragon items will become much more common and cheaper. With people not merchanting there will be more fighters which will increase the amount of dragon items making them common.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having a party hat has nothing to do with how long you played anymore. Out of every that has a party hat right now I can guarentee you much less then 3% of them have saved them since the drop seeing how at that time they were worthless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Party hats and rare are essential to the Runescape economy and will not be taken out because some people cannot afford them (unless Jagex makes another stupid update like the brown cows :wink: ) and so they say skill raising is much better. So I leave you with these words:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"If you like to use money for skill leveling do it, and if you like to use your money for merchanting do it." - Me :P

[lpinkus]

 

If were rich in RS, I wouldn't buy a phat, and if I were rich in real life, I wouldn't "pay tons for a cool car!" People obviously do, but I don't know why

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If everyone reasoned like that, it would be true that rares would be worthless. But not everyone has the same idea's as you about this. People are willing to pay these high prices for various reasons, of which I already gave a few some posts earlier.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

True! We all have different ideas. People can spend their gp how they feel, but even if all my levels were 99 and I had 999 million gp, I can't see wanting one of those things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hmm, you seem to forget that noone will sell you a party hat for 1gp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I appreciate your "market value" explanation, which although clear, is fairly different I think in a computer game than at the NYSE. I'm not an economist, so I'll just respond to what I quoted. I have seen many posts by people who say they'd get rid of a rare after PKing it. Now, PKing is not my style, and I'm not about to start to acquire rares. I also assume PKers don't wear them PKing due to their aformentioned, ahem, "status." Still, these players who would like to get rid of the rares would be in agreement with me-they would likely sell them for 1 gp (or less). But, since you got me thinking about it, I'll be more accurate. I wouldn't sell it for 1 gp, because the buyer would make the very millions to which I'm opposed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would say that the works of Beethoven or Matisse are not famous because they're old, they're famous beacuse they're ingenious and beautiful. And, they're not just old, they're timeless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't really matter why the art is famous to me :P. My point was that most art didn't have any (market) value when it was created, and gained it's current value over time - just like all rares in RuneScape did.

 

 

 

It's not just a random chance that art in rl and rares in rs are similiar in that... It's a standard economic concept that they both share.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Although there's probably some logic in that, trust me, Beethoven's decision to write symphonies was better than JAGeX's decision to drop phats :) Not over time, IMMEDIATELY. There is value in art that can not be measured by money or how old it is. And, there is an enjoyment of playing RS that cannot be measured by acquiring gp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

[lpinkus]

 

 

 

I want to keep my santa :lol: . This is one problem associated with this. not all players buy rares for merchanting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The "make them untradeable" idea, then, would work for you. But, now that you got me thinking, here's an idea: How about it rares could be shared but not traded? If people truly want a rare to show it off, they could "borrow" it from another player, no money or trades. And, since there is no longer any gp value, that player would be unlikely to not give it back. This is flawed, but it does eliminate any economic problems the rares cause.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

[lpinkus]

I find Picasso's paintings no better than that of my two-year old cousin's scribbles and yet I find people paying several millions for one and not the other :P.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I appreciated your post, read the whole thing. But, with all due respect to you and your cousin, look deeper into the Picasso-there's more in there than in a phat :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

[Duke_Freedom]

I appreciate your "market value" explanation, which although clear, is fairly different I think in a computer game than at the NYSE. I'm not an economist, so I'll just respond to what I quoted. I have seen many posts by people who say they'd get rid of a rare after PKing it. Now, PKing is not my style, and I'm not about to start to acquire rares. I also assume PKers don't wear them PKing due to their aformentioned, ahem, "status." Still, these players who would like to get rid of the rares would be in agreement with me-they would likely sell them for 1 gp (or less). But, since you got me thinking about it, I'll be more accurate. I wouldn't sell it for 1 gp, because the buyer would make the very millions to which I'm opposed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are right about the fact that there are some (although few) people who buy / sell at "any" price. (I edited the example, it now also has some buyers at 100mil and some sellers at 1gp)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However, even though there are people who are willing to sell for 1gp, there are way more people who are willing to buy for much higher. So under ideal circumstances, there will always be someone else who will offer 12mil for the party hat, preventing you from buying it for 1gp. The stock-market, like you rightly concluded, works exactly like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now you are right rs doesn't have these 'ideal circumstances'. Trades don't take place at one static price, based on the total demand and supply. But instead, items in rs have a 'price range' in which most trades take place. The average of all those trades would, theoretically, still be the same as with the 'ideal circumstances' though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find Picasso's paintings no better than that of my two-year old cousin's scribbles and yet I find people paying several millions for one and not the other :P.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I appreciated your post, read the whole thing. But, with all due respect to you and your cousin, look deeper into the Picasso-there's more in there than in a phat :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What I fail to understand is that you don't see the link between rares in rs and famous art in real life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me show that they have everything in common:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) They both can't be reproduced. (This partly explains their high pricing from an economical stance)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) They are both based on 'sentimental' value. Party hats are expensive because there are people who like their looks. Art is expensive because there are people who "see deeper things" in it and thus they think it's worth a lot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Both really have no use. No - that you can see "deeper thoughts" in art or that art "delightens" you is not useful at all. If you do think that's useful, then party hats are useful too, as they show that you "worked hard to gain so much money to afford them" and / or "that you've playing rs for a long time".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So my question is - why don't you agree it's just as ridiculous that people pay millions for a painting of Picasso as it is that they pay millions for a Party Hat in rs?

 

 

 

Believe me, if look at it objectively, there's absolutely no difference between rares in rs and art in rl. :)

[magekillr]

duke i think you should just give up

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

he'll never understand :roll:

[JimiWasGod]

this post is pointless...

[gadien01]

 

Yes they would buy the rare items as well and they would static. The shop would have like 40 of each rare and would be cheaper than the current market price, but not by much. This would stop the increase of prices. I realize its only half the problem, but this seems to be the only way to fairly solve the problem of merchanting rares because the in order to access the shop a player would have to go through that long quest and it stops "noobs" from getting expensive items.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even this solution will not manage to prevent massive changes in the economy though. A few posts earlier I already explained what kind of players buy rares - now let's take a look at how they'll probably react to your solution:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Investors. The investors won't have a reason to keep their money in rares anymore (rares don't go up in price on the long-term anymore) they will pull out the worth they have in them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Merchants. The profit margins of rares-sales will probably be smaller due to such a shop. The activity of rares-trading as a whole will be lower, as many people are less or not interested in rares now. This would make the rares less attractive for merchants, so a lot of merchants would move away from the rares market.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Show offs. I'm not sure what these people would do if this change happened. Let's assume they stay interested in rares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Collectors. The collectors will see less interest to collect the rares, because the idea of "one day I'll own them all" will be taken away. There will be a unlimited supply of rares and thus a big part of the collectors might not see the point in collecting the rares anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see - such a change will take away the interest in rares of many people. If the shop buys the rares for a good price too, that would only add on to the problems that already come from the lowered interest in the rares.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with points 1 and 3, but not 2 and 4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Merchants will still merchant rares, but the price range would be much lower so the profit margin may only be 1mill. The reason they'd still merchant rares is for the simple fact that most people on f2p don't do a lot of the quest, and would therefore not be able to do the quest needed to buy them from a store. Also, the merchants maybe the only people able to do the quest right away since they have money to raise the skill necessary to do this quest. Therefore, they'd have more phats, masks, ect to add to the market. As a result their value would decrease, but not by a whole lot and room for profit would still be around. But the price would never jump again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Collects will still collect them, well if they think like I do. I want these items mainly because they look cool and the fact they are rare. The quest would still make them rare. The abyssal whip is rare, but the amount is in theory limitless is it not. The same would be true for the shop. The shop wouldn't have more than 10 of any item, unless someone sold the item, at any one time. In fact I think the shop should only have 5 of each rare. In theory, this makes the amount limitless, but the time it takes a shop to regenerate items makes them have a limited number.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In shot, the whole point of the quest and the reward is to make rare prices static, never moving just like most items in the game. I still believe that this would be the only fair way to solve our crazy, little problem. ThatÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s why most of the important parts of the quest are a synonyms for crazy and weird.

[Duke_Freedom]

2) Merchants will still merchant rares, but the price range would be much lower so the profit margin may only be 1mill. The reason they'd still merchant rares is for the simple fact that most people on f2p don't do a lot of the quest, and would therefore not be able to do the quest needed to buy them from a store. Also, the merchants maybe the only people able to do the quest right away since they have money to raise the skill necessary to do this quest. Therefore, they'd have more phats, masks, ect to add to the market. As a result their value would decrease, but not by a whole lot and room for profit would still be around. But the price would never jump again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not talking about the immediate effect of this. The immediate effect is only short term and not really important. However on a one or two month term, prices will stabalize. The price range of party hats will be much smaller then, making it less interesting for merchants to trade them. Currently I see party hats being traded within a ~1mil range... That will definately drop back to a few 100Ks again after prices stabalized because of this update. Merchants who aren't used to small profit margins (most merchants around nowadays) won't be able to adapt to this and thus leave the rare-merchanting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Collects will still collect them, well if they think like I do. I want these items mainly because they look cool and the fact they are rare. The quest would still make them rare. The abyssal whip is rare, but the amount is in theory limitless is it not. The same would be true for the shop. The shop wouldn't have more than 10 of any item, unless someone sold the item, at any one time. In fact I think the shop should only have 5 of each rare. In theory, this makes the amount limitless, but the time it takes a shop to regenerate items makes them have a limited number.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The quest wouldn't make them a real-rare anymore. Like I said.. The idea of "one day I'll own them all" will be taken away. Besides, I don't see people collect abyssal whips either, nor any other pseudo-rare. So why would they collect party hats and such, while theyt work exactly like all the other pseudo-rares now?