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PHATS AND MASKS


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a drag chain is more of a status symbol than any of the rares because the price of one is right up there with a blue party hat, not to mention the fact that a chain is a ton more useful. The only thing is that the prices of the chain will drop due to more being found at the queen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with this, absolutely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not really think that rares "ruined" the game, it is the people who own these rares that ruin the game. I hear about others high alchemying them...I mean, how unfair is that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This I don't agree with. Why is it unfair for someone to alch a rare? Is it fair that rich players horde rares and charge outrageous prices? They're permitted to, but it's silly. So, if I had a bunch of rares, that's exactly what I'd do, alch 'em. I feel the game is better without them, just like a way-too-rich merchant feels the game is better with them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for responding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

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Little do you realise though is you wouldn't be complaining about insane prices if you didn't want one. No one complains just for the sake of complaining. You are only complaining about these because they are cool items to have to show off to people.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fortunately I'm typing, otherwise I'd lose my voice repeating this: I do not want a phat! If you can't take my word for that, we're no longer having an intelligent forum discussion, you're just making assumptions about me. I'm not complaining for the sake of complaining, I'm complaining because I think the merchanting of rares is unfair. Oh, by the way, I don't want a phat :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also how is it unfair to get rich by merchanting, unlike everything else you need no high level skills to get rich off of it. So the option of merchanting is open to everyone, weither you guys take the oportunity is your choice and your choice alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are supporting my argument with that line of thinking. "You need no skills to get rich off of it." Exactly! One who is skilled at fighting should earn drops that are valuable. One who is skilled at herblore should earn money from selling high-level potions. One who is skilled at fletching, etc. Time should equal money. Taking advantage of this type of merchanting, I feel, is just that, taking advantage. It is taking advantage of drops that JAGeX implemented for pure fun, only to see people hording them and getting too rich too fast. They do not like it, they have said this already in their official FAQ, but I'm sure they would lose too many players by suddenly getting rid of the phats.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, by the way, I don't want a phat :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

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killordie18

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Joined: 19 Jan 2005

 

 

 

Posts: 0

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

how can he have 0 posts if his post is on top here?

 

 

 

This may have already been answered, but when posting on certain boards your count doesn't change.

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Inflation ... its a big problem ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What to do with it ??? Lets see at real life ... What does goverment to control inflation ? First of all, its CONTROL AMOUNT OF MONEY. Is it normal when bank of Runescape does not issue any money, but usual player does ? In any normal country its considered as coinage offence, lol

 

 

 

So what should Jagex to do with it ? I dont propose to fobid high alching or selling stuff to stores (when they got unlimited money by the way, lol).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I propose to implement massive money drain from Game. It will definitely drop prices on rares and stabilies other markets. I think it should be taxes on diferrent pleasant services (such as Castle Wars, duels). Also I think that armor and weapons, picks and hatchets should have limited time of life (relatively large though, to allow fighters and workers get profit from fighting, mining, woodcutting etc.). It will be giant stuff drain therefore money drain from Game and also renew status of such hard accessible skills like crafting and smithing (you should agree that its ridiculous that lvl 99 smither or crafter cannot make money with its skills)

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You want to solve the problem theres only 1 way to do it with out pissing everyone off. Make them more abundant by either having a guy sell them which would only be avaible by completing a huge quest. Or, by having some type of monster drop them. Thoes are the only two ways people wouldn't get pissed off and quit. Take this sugesstion to jagex, maybe they'll actually implemet it since they don't like the problem as much as everyone else, but I doubt it.

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I'd like to make liltle addition to what I just told

 

 

 

Another problem with Runescape in my mind is that it becomes money based game (opposite to skill based) cause its often when player with low skills have more real power (respect, ability to force someone to do something) then high leveled fighters or workers, cause by huge amounts of money, made by merchanting. Actually I think, its justly, considering real life, cause it allows clever guys to rule. But not here, cause its a Game, and it was desined with supposition that your stats completely define your status, cause it makes game more playable. If Jagex would make money money-based game, it could release text based exchange simulator, lol

 

 

 

Ok, enough idle talking, you may be tied of them, lol

 

 

 

What I propose ? To remove 99's limit of skills and introduce new player made stuff, cause it return skill based sence to Runescape. For instance, highest smithing xp in game is about 56 mil, according my calculations, he could get about 113-114 smithing level if no limit. Just imagine what amasing stuff he could make for community. And of cause its allow high leveled players to make money with there skills, cause nowdays only 1 skill allows to get more money then merchanting - slayer (I mean abyssial whips of cause)

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You want to solve the problem theres only 1 way to do it with out pissing everyone off. Make them more abundant by either having a guy sell them which would only be avaible by completing a huge quest. Or, by having some type of monster drop them. There are only two ways people wouldn't get pissed off and quit. Take this sugesstion to jagex, maybe they'll actually implemet it since they don't like the problem as much as everyone else, but I doubt it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

High price of rare items based on belief of players that they will never dropped again. This explains why they are so desiable and thats why owner of rare item so happy.

 

 

 

We discussing here ways to improve Game. What means improvement ? To make game more pleasant, right ? Ok, lets pretend, that phats and other rares can be bought in general store (or got by drop, its not principal) ... In this case they become most useless items in game, cause they dont give bonuses at all. Of cause, first time all will wear em on, lol. Some one even start to "mining" general stores, collecting phats, in hope that some day they become rare again. But what will happens after ? Newbies dont become more happy, cause everyone can wear it, and phat DONT SHOW YOUR STATUS anymore. At the other side, former ownes of phats will be suffered alot, cause they worked very hard to get em. As a result general amount of happiness in game will be reduced, is it what you want ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS: by the way, you ever thought what means phat in addition to richness ? It mean that guy who bought it helped community alot by getting and selling raw materials, food, good weapons and armor and sold it to players who in need. After that he gave all earned money to old noble player and get phat off him. Looking at this side we can say that phat like "medal of honor" to players who hardworked for community. I think its justly.

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:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: NO WAY!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i don't get it..... your don't you relise that they had a shop that sold party hats!!! ffs! Rember that fiasco? Besides... i see nothing wrong with my main breaking all his money when he was a lvl 76 for a green mask... the masks was 850k.... now its worth 2.2 mill and i am lvl 87. I bought the mask cause i predicted such a jump, if the store came out then no one would buy from other players

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

when supply is unlimited then the rareity of the item (look at dragon shield) even if it is a high rarity value the price will drop... D shield was like 15 mill awhile back and then started dropping like a stone... people relised that there would always be more d sheilds comeing out, so why buy for more now? it would be the same thing with the masks.... people going and buying a HUGE amout hopeing to sell again then when the can't the drop the price and hope they haven't lost too much.... then cause they FLOOD the market it decreases in value.

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You need no skills to get rich off of it." Exactly! One who is skilled at fighting should earn drops that are valuable.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He ment to say it doesn't take any "pointlessly click here for 100 times" skill. Merchanting does take some real skills - although I must say merchanting nowadays is much easier and less skill-involving then it used to be. Better merchants (read: merchants with better trading tactics) make more money though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time should equal money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Merchanting is providing a service. Services take time, which means money too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is taking advantage of drops that JAGeX implemented for pure fun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh god, are people still pointing to the ages ago that they were dropped for fun? You can safely say 99% of the rares around are in hands of people who were never around during these drops. It's just a worthless arguement to say that the merchants NOWADAYS are still taking advantage of something that happened YEARS ago. Heck - myself I even started AFTER all tradable rare drops.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not want a phat!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then stop complaining about them. People who say they don't want a party hat, but who so actively support taking them out of the economy seem to have a nasty character trait to me: jealousy. Ofcourse you'll deny this anyway though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm complaining because I think the merchanting of rares is unfair.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why precisely is it unfair? What's unfair about buying a party hat for 1mil and reselling it for 1.1mil. Secondly I don't think you have any problems with the merchanting of rares. Merchanting is done with ANY and EVERY material. You buy up loads of steel bars 500gp ea and resell 600gp ea - that's merchanting, and it's considered fair by everyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I think you mean you have 'problems' with the investing in rares, or in other words: "making money while your asleep". It is not true this wouldn't be possible if rares didn't exist though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you don't realise is that the 'hoarding' you don't like would probably happen when rares didn't exist too. People would try to do it with (raw) materials and they would most likely succeed doing so; as the amount of money going on in the rares market is definately enough to *temporary bring up the price of some material.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*temporary: several months should be considered temporary here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, like someone already said, if rares are removed, the 'inflation' that happens to the rares will move to the raw materials. Especially back in the days, when there were almost no other expensive items in the game apart from rares, this would have been true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But common, if you want to get rid of rares anyway, come with a reasonable solution. Just saying "remove them" without giving the ones who own them any compensation just shows you are jealous about the money people made - that has nothing to do with any form of fairness.

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Your points are well made, Duke, and here are my counterpoints.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Merchanting is providing a service. Services take time, which means money too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looks like we agree there. If I didn't say it, I don't dislike merchanting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then stop complaining about them. People who say they don't want a party hat, but who so actively support taking them out of the economy seem to have a nasty character trait to me: jealousy. Ofcourse you'll deny this anyway though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You may say I'm complaining, but it obviously hasn't made me quit the game. I enjoy the game thoroughly, and to be honest, I suppose merchanting phats doesn't really effect me personally at all! However, I do believe it is bad for the game in general. So, I use this forum to discuss the idea in Runescape Discussions. Fair enough?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, yes, you called it. I do, and will always, deny that accusation that I am jealous. If I were to alch a rare, one might say I'm being spiteful, but another might say I'm improving the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why precisely is it unfair? What's unfair about buying a party hat for 1mil and reselling it for 1.1mil. Secondly I don't think you have any problems with the merchanting of rares. Merchanting is done with ANY and EVERY material. You buy up loads of steel bars 500gp ea and resell 600gp ea - that's merchanting, and it's considered fair by everyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The steel bars have a purpose related to raising legit RS skills. The phats do not. That's fact, not opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you want to get rid of rares anyway, come with a reasonable solution. Just saying "remove them" without giving the ones who own them any compensation just shows you are jealous about the money people made - that has nothing to do with any form of fairness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To be honest, I have not come up with a solution other than "remove them," but I don't work for JAGeX, otherwise you can bet I'd be pushing it around the table. Still, I bet they think about ideas to get rid of the phats all the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And again, I'm not "jealous" about the money people have made. You can keep saying it if you want, but it's an unfounded accusation and it's not true. I don't aim to have more money than others, I earn money to buy items (useful items) that make the game more fun for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your opinions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

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Why precisely is it unfair? What's unfair about buying a party hat for 1mil and reselling it for 1.1mil. Secondly I don't think you have any problems with the merchanting of rares. Merchanting is done with ANY and EVERY material. You buy up loads of steel bars 500gp ea and resell 600gp ea - that's merchanting, and it's considered fair by everyone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The steel bars have a purpose related to raising legit RS skills. The phats do not. That's fact, not opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Point is that merchanting is merchanting. In both cases the merchant provides a service: he saves you time. And whether he does it with an useless item or an item that does have an use doesn't really matter. Besides, most players do find these rares very 'useful' or at least 'attractive' to have, because otherwise they wouldn't be worth anything in the first place. ;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That you don't agree with most people on that is an opinion. It's not a fact that rares are 'useless', because if that was true, their market price would be zero. Your right, an opinion ain't a fact. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can keep saying it if you want, but it's an unfounded accusation and it's not true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm just trying to make you realise it's a overreaction to remove everyone's rares without compensation. Like I said in my other post: I'm convinced that the biggest part of the rares is in hands of people who weren't around back in those days. These people actually paid millions upon millions for their rares. What are you going to say to those people when they see their millions turn into ashes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you want to change something you should be objective and view the situation from different perspectives - failing in doing so leads to a solution ("just remove the rares") that will never make almost everyone agree with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If that's your best solution (and since you discuss about it you seem to find this an important matter) then your not taking the merchant / players who bought the rares at high prices situation into account. You either don't care or forgot about their situation - but if it's such an 'important' matter I can't really believe you forgot it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So you don't care? But I'm sure you are smart enough to understand that not caring about someone unfairly and unwillingly loosing millions can only lead me to the conclusion of jealousy - I definately wouldn't call that "unfounded". Yes, you will continue to deny this; until you realise it's actually true - and when you realise that, you'll probably come up with a better, fairer solution, because jealousy is not one of your character traits and you still want to get rid of the rares an other way then. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After all my disagreeing with you, you might think I'm fully against the removal of rares - while I'm not. Although I do think the whole "rare market" is a very interesting economical concept in the game, I can understand why people, including Jagex, would like to get rid of it. Comming up with a solution that satisfies everyone is difficult though. Most solutions would mess up the game's economy too much or would only stop the rise in the rares prices, but not get rid of the high prices attached to the rares.

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Also why is it the rare masks and phats that come up for the removal from the game? I mean there are plenty of other rare items Easter Eggs, Disks of Return, Pumpkins, Christmas Crackers, Half Wines, and so on. Why is it that the ones that cannot be easily shown off by wearing them need to be taken out of the game. The simple fact for that is people want them but cannot afford them, so therefore they complain just like everyone else who cannot afford one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also you say that it's okay to merchant raw materials because people get something out of it. When people have a party hat they earn peoples respect and have a sense of being wanted in the RuneScape world. Just like in real life people want a sense of "wantedness". So would you prefer pointless higher numbers or a sense of want by other people. Also everyone wants to be wanted no matter who the person is, although some might not show it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can try to argue this all you want but wouldn't you say it is ironic you only pick out masks and phats the only ones you can show off by wearing them and all the other rares aren't even argued about? Oh well, I am interested and hope you prove me wrong because I know there are always things I don't think about (as a friend from runescape always proves to me).

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Also you say that it's okay to merchant raw materials because people get something out of it. When people have a party hat they earn peoples respect and have a sense of being wanted in the RuneScape world. Just like in real life people want a sense of "wantedness". So would you prefer pointless higher numbers or a sense of want by other people. Also everyone wants to be wanted no matter who the person is, although some might not show it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have more respect when standing next to a level 120+ character than I do when standing next to a low lvl merchant with a hat.

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Sure they will be expensive, but they will become a ridiculous status symbol of merchanters and stakers. But everyone else will know to spend their money on useful items. Also, the only rare i think actually looks good are the phats.

"Da mihi castitatem et continentam, sed noli modo"

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Katsuro thats not what I was saying. When you have a party hat you have more respect. I never said it is the most respect you will ever get. So next time read my post instead of the first two sentences. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and im saying that I believe someone with a very high level has more respect than a person who traded items to get a phat. Millions can be made in a few weeks. High levels take a lot of time and committment

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p hats and masks should be high in value...they are rare

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HOWEVER...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rare item manipulation is once again tormenting the economy...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bands of friends are fake buying and selling to raise prices...and its all being done subtly so the prices go up quick...quite sad really

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but...p hats are getting out of hand at how quickly in price...white--30M this morning...white atm---32M and rising

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: wow...manipulation striking again...i see like 6-8 people on forums fake buying and selling to raise price of disk from 5 mill to 14 mill...sadly its working and like 2 people were suckered in and bout for their prices...

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Hmm. They choose a perfect time to manipulate them then... Party hats were about to rise heavily on their own effort IMO. Hate it how those manipulators force it to go even faster though - makes prices unstable and always backfires in the form of a price drop or a period of price stagnation.

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can you please tell how rares can ruin the game???

 

 

 

most new poeple in the game dont even know what a phat or a mask is..

 

 

 

so i cant see how it can ruin the game..

 

 

 

just because normal people cant afford a phat dosent mean that u have to

 

 

 

delet them,,,You can still play this game without a phat.

 

 

 

And for some people this game is all about merchanting, so why ruin the game for them by deleting the rares???

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Hmm. They choose a perfect time to manipulate them then... Party hats were about to rise heavily on their own effort IMO. Hate it how those manipulators force it to go even faster though - makes prices unstable and always backfires in the form of a price drop or a period of price stagnation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yep...i see a backfire yet again coming...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

remember blue was 11 mill out of nowhere...the people realized it was fake and it dropped to 7.5 mill in 1 night....sure to happen again

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p hats and masks should be high in value...they are rare

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HOWEVER...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rare item manipulation is once again tormenting the economy...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bands of friends are fake buying and selling to raise prices...and its all being done subtly so the prices go up quick...quite sad really

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

but...p hats are getting out of hand at how quickly in price...white--30M this morning...white atm---32M and rising

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit: wow...manipulation striking again...i see like 6-8 people on forums fake buying and selling to raise price of disk from 5 mill to 14 mill...sadly its working and like 2 people were suckered in and bout for their prices...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, if a few people can affect the prices SO MUCH, I think this shows HOW FEW party hats are actually left.

Runescape: Lodev (Combat level been fixed at 101 for years now, Total level 1500+, playing since march 2002)

Arenascape: Lode (Level 240+ Warlock)

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Actually, if a few people can affect the prices SO MUCH, I think this shows HOW FEW party hats are actually left.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too bad they can only effect it with propaganda, not with actual hoarding.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Noone ever noticed my "silent" hoard of yellow party hats, which I did to test the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Prices didn't react on my buying nor reacted on my selling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So in fact, there are more party hats around then people think.

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Well, just a bit more discussion never hurt anyone...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Besides, most players do find these rares very 'useful' or at least 'attractive' to have, because otherwise they wouldn't be worth anything in the first place. ;)

 

 

 

That you don't agree with most people on that is an opinion. It's not a fact that rares are 'useless', because if that was true, their market price would be zero. Your right, an opinion ain't a fact. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess I could have been more clear about my definition of "useful." Let me use a similar occurence to explain how silly I think these phats are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I *often* see players, lvl 60-80 or so, wielding granite mauls in the center of plazas, in banks, just standing there doing nothing. They're not asking for buyers, they're just standing there. Now, I can only assume that these players are trying to "show off." I don't understand that. I mean, I do get it, I was once in junior high, but one obviously doesn't gain xp by standing there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see wearing a phat as much different, except they cost more and they don't hit as hard as the maul :) If it's true, as you say, that most people wearing the phats did not get them from the actual drop a long way back, then I think that supports what I'm saying even more. In other words, it's not a sign of how long one has played, it's a sign of how much one has to/is willing to spend on a hat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, although I agree with you that the players/merchants who paid millions for these rares will be upset if JAGeX suddenly gor rid of them, my question is this: were they ever worth anything in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what's the objective, fair, solution you've asked me for? I don't know, but I will post it when I think of one :) Thanks for discussing it with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

lpinkus

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Why do people pay tons for 'cool' cars in real life? A car is a car. The only real 'use' it has is that it brings you from location A to location B. Whether it looks nice or not shouldn't really matter, and as we have a max speed limit on the roads, having a car that can go faster has no use either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yet, there are enough people who buy the faster and better looking cars anyway, because they like to drive in such a 'cool' car. Now we are at it, why do you even play RuneScape actually? What use does it have?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, I'm sure you already understand where I'm going to... Using 'the item doesn't have an use' arguement isn't valid. People pay these prices for them, so they are worth that. There's no way you can reason otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In other words, it's not a sign of how long one has played, it's a sign of how much one has to/is willing to spend on a hat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are 4 groups of people who own rares:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Collectors. They love collecting useless items. Comparable to stamp or coin collectors in real life.

 

 

 

2) Show offs. They just buy the rares to show off, show rich they are and brag about it. You can say the same about most of the people who buy expensive cars in real life.

 

 

 

3) Merchants. They only own them to immediately sell them for more.

 

 

 

4) Investors. They buy up rares with the sole purpose to resell in the future, when they went up in price.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And, although I agree with you that the players/merchants who paid millions for these rares will be upset if JAGeX suddenly gor rid of them, my question is this: were they ever worth anything in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Were paintings of famous artist worth anything when those artists were still living? In most cases - no.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I want to repeat: I'm not fully against the removal of the rares. The only valid reason for removing them is the one Jagex uses though. They said that rares weren't ment to work like this and were ment to be "free gifts". Just like you yourself, Jagex probably intended them to be a sign of how long someone has been playing.

 

 

 

Making something that's a sign of how long you've been playing tradable doesn't make sense to me though, but Jagex must have looked over it back in the days...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what's the objective, fair, solution you've asked me for? I don't know, but I will post it when I think of one :) Thanks for discussing it with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey - I said it isn't easy ;). I must admit I don't have a good solution. And I'm quite convinced it doesn't exists either. Any solution that somehow compensates the ones who bought the rares, will have a major impact on the economy; mainly because - although people like to deny it - the total value of the rares market is insanely high.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But, to have something new to discuss :), what do you think about disks of returning and half wines? They are not like holiday items. They are rare because Jagex took away the way you could make them. The only valid arguement Jagex can have against them is that they never intended to have the concept of a rare in their game at all...

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