"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[muggiwhplar 2221]

Seems like a fruitless endeavor >_>

[RpgGamer 1090]

Tell him to read the archives of this thread. Maybe he'll learn a thing or two.

[Omar 137]

Oh, he unfriended me. Problem solved!

[Ginger_Warrior 689]

I would describe myself as a feminist too, although there's obviously controversy about whether men can call themselves that and there's many different forms of feminism. Etiher way, I've read books on feminism, I follow feminism in the news and social media: I get it, and I support it.

 

His problem has nothing to do with gender inequality. Do women need a man to feel happy? No, at least they don't as a gender if not as individuals; so why would stating the same statement in reverse be any more offensive? He's just feeling sorry for himself: "Why doesn't anyone find me attractive? Why doesn't anyone want to be in a relationship with me? If I was in a relationship I wouldn't have these worries."

 

That quote about loving yourself before you can some somebody else is true. His attitude towards relationships need to change away from seeking relationships as a means of obtaining external validation against internal insecurity.

[Hedgehog 2501]

Best reading material for needy, insecure, entitled, "nice" guy? Someone I know keeps whining about how he can't be happy without romance on Facebook. Bonus points if not misogynistic because he's probably a feminist and he'll probably latch onto any excuse to avoid being exposed to the notion that you have to make your life happen rather than wait for it to happen to you. But anything will do.

 

[Edit] Lol @ people who drink beer

http://okcupidsniceguys.tumblr.com/

[Ginger_Warrior 689]

I liked the one where he said he didn't want to have kids because he was "ethically" opposed to them. :lol:

[obfuscator 1005]

A bit off topic, but men can definitely be feminists...some of the most cardcore feminists I've encountered have been men

[Ginger_Warrior 689]

If you have female relatives or friends (and we almost all do, barring an incredibly unfortunate series of deaths), and you support their right to go through life without being prejudiced or having their rights abused simply because they happen to be female, then you support women's rights. You're a feminist. I'm assuming we're decent blokes and we're all firmly in support of women's rights against sexual harassment, for example? There you go then.

 

You can still identify yourself as a feminist and criticise some aspects of feminism. I identify as a feminist, I certainly don't support misandry. There are those who suggest being a feminist is tantamount to misandry, but you only arrive at that conclusion following the most infantile forms of logic conceivable.

 

Similar to how you might oppose racist discrimination, but still criticise some aspects of the civil rights movement. In fact, that's a good comparison, because although Malcolm X and MLK had the same vision in mind, both had radically different methods of accomplishing it and beliefs which drove them. Likewise, people are feminists for different reasons, and believe in different methods of accomplishing gender equality.

 

As far as this guy is concerned, though, it really has no relevance whatsoever. He's single because he feels sorry for himself and wishes a 'rescuer' would come save him from the rut he's dug himself into. That's not how life works, whether you're a man or a woman.

[muggiwhplar 2221]

Oh, he unfriended me. Problem solved!

 

I have a feeling that you weren't as "understanding" as you could have been when you responded to his post and made him feel stupid/silly/embarrassed/inferior. :P

 

As far as this guy is concerned, though, it really has no relevance whatsoever. He's single because he feels sorry for himself and wishes a 'rescuer' would come save him from the rut he's dug himself into. That's not how life works, whether you're a man or a woman.

Don't you think that agreeing with such a principle contradicts support for feminism?

 

Feminism sort of falls apart if you believe that women are responsible for their own wellbeing.

[Omar 137]

Feminism is an umbrella term, and some of the ideas it covers have little to no prescriptive overlap. I don't call myself a feminist because that wouldn't actually tell you anything about what I believe, even though I agree with many people who call themselves feminists.

The reason I brought it up was that I initially found a fair amount of PUA material that was way too easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater on the grounds that he wouldn't take his advice from someone who calls women sluts. You don't want to give people reasons to feel admirable for believing falsehoods.

 

@Muggi: No, I wasn't. I've been pretty understanding up until now (he does have mental and physical disabilities, but then so do I) and I didn't reply to his latest. I think he just didn't want me on his news feed, which is understandable given we're not friends and we disagree about politics.
 

[Ring_World 753]

Everyone is a first wave feminist. Unless you live in Saudi Arabia. Most people are a second wave feminist. The 3rd and fourth wave feminists who spout rape culture and the patriarchy are a controversial and unsupported even among women who identify as feminists. 

[Omar 137]

 

As far as this guy is concerned, though, it really has no relevance whatsoever. He's single because he feels sorry for himself and wishes a 'rescuer' would come save him from the rut he's dug himself into. That's not how life works, whether you're a man or a woman.

Don't you think that agreeing with such a principle contradicts support for feminism?

 

Feminism sort of falls apart if you believe that women are responsible for their own wellbeing.

 

You're confusing self-respect and respecting other people, i.e. politics.

 

On a practical level, it's much better to adjust yourself to this than to try to change something that cannot be changed. In fact, out of respect for what little freedom you have, you owe it to yourself to do what you can instead of wallowing in self-pity. That's why people who refuse to take ownership for their own well-being are repugnant.

 

But by itself, this doesn't lead to the conclusion that there's no such thing as fairness, or to a kind of fatalism. Still out of recognition of the fact that what you do is what you have decided to do, you have to take responsibility for what you do to others, whether right or wrong. Respecting other people's rights (in our case, choosing to honour women's choices) is part of respecting yourself as a moral agent.

[Ginger_Warrior 689]

Don't you think that agreeing with such a principle contradicts support for feminism?

 

Feminism sort of falls apart if you believe that women are responsible for their own wellbeing.

Not really, no.

 

I think I said a rut that he had dug himself into with irrational reasoning and wishful thinking, not a rut that was dug for him by centuries of prejudice, a culture of gender stereotyping which existed before he (or she) was even born, and a drastic under-representation in Congress. Furthermore, feminism isn't about men 'rescuing' women. Just like black people didn't need 'rescuing' from white people. They needed empowering through the democratic process (because that's where the real power lies) and their concerns needed legitimizing. Most of the leading figures in the feminism are women, and rightly so.

 

You could argue this guy needs empowering too. He's clearly feeling hopeless and lacks the necessary attitude and perspective to turn things around. Comparing this guy to feminism is a bit like chalk and cheese, though, wouldn't you agree?

 

Everyone is a first wave feminist. Unless you live in Saudi Arabia. Most people are a second wave feminist. The 3rd and fourth wave feminists who spout rape culture and the patriarchy are a controversial and unsupported even among women who identify as feminists. 

So... you're saying not all people belonging to a political movement necessarily agree with everyone else who's part of that movement. How is this abnormal?

[Ring_World 753]

My point by that is that feminist ideology is mainstream and has near universal support. That means everyone is a feminist. Politically the goals have been won, women can be in the military, get divorced, own property, vote, go to school [more then equal representation there], work any job in the workforce, etc. All things that are negative rights that were important battles to win. Id go so far as to say that today there is equality of opportunity to succeed. Ofc this isn't equality of outcome but there isn't for anyone ever.  

 

 

As to why its a dirty word is because the social justice tumblr feminist movement is viewed as baroque and sometimes misandrist. That a lot of modern feminism is about why there isn't an equality of outcome, and focuses on positive rights, and things which have mystical definitions unique to everyone you talk to such as rape culture or the patriarchy. Anyways my problem with positive rights movements is that they always come down to group A voting the recources of group B [be it money, power, whatever]. I support 0% of positive rights movments ever. Which leads to criticism from social justice warriors since they believe that to be the only way to correct prior social injustice. I obviously don't believe that this is the only way to fix social injustice nor even a way to do it at all. 

 

So this is why I wouldn't feel comfortable calling myself a feminist. As a negative rights movement I am 100% for it. I would imagine most people who dislike "feminism" feel the same way as me.

[Ginger_Warrior 689]

Id go so far as to say that today there is equality of opportunity to succeed.

There's plenty of evidence which contradicts that belief. While de jure gender inequality has been all but eliminated (and it hasn't totally), de facto discrimination is still very much alive and kicking.

 

As to why its a dirty word is because the social justice tumblr feminist movement is viewed as baroque and sometimes misandrist and a lot of the people who go on about how they can't stand feminists/feminism are simply reflecting that they can't stand this particular group of people who call themselves feminists.

Is it the fault of a movement that some people on tumblr can't differentiate between a smaller, more radical branch of a movement; and the wider movement itself? I'd have thought the burden of responsibility lies with those making the original error, not those instigating the movement in the first place.

[muggiwhplar 2221]

Not really, no.

 

I think I said a rut that he had dug himself into with irrational reasoning and wishful thinking, not a rut that was dug for him by centuries of prejudice, a culture of gender stereotyping which existed before he (or she) was even born, and a drastic under-representation in Congress. Furthermore, feminism isn't about men 'rescuing' women. Just like black people didn't need 'rescuing' from white people. They needed empowering through the democratic process (because that's where the real power lies) and their concerns needed legitimizing. Most of the leading figures in the feminism are women, and rightly so.

 

You could argue this guy needs empowering too. He's clearly feeling hopeless and lacks the necessary attitude and perspective to turn things around. Comparing this guy to feminism is a bit like chalk and cheese, though, wouldn't you agree?

I still can't see the difference between "rescuing" and "empowering" >_> If I say that I'm weak and I need to be empowered, I'm basically asking for someone to rescue me lol

[Ginger_Warrior 689]

If you think simply feeling sorry for yourself is equivalent to deeply ingrained societal prejudice, then I think this conversation has reached a dead end.

[muggiwhplar 2221]

Deeply ingrained social prejudice causes people to feel sorry for themselves. I'm not arguing whether or not their sorrow is legitimate. I'm just saying that their sorrow exists, and they want someone else to rescue/empower them.

[Ring_World 753]

 

There's plenty of evidence which contradicts that belief. While de jure gender inequality has been all but eliminated (and it hasn't totally), de facto discrimination is still very much alive and kicking.

 

 

All political movements are judged by the radicals. And the only de facto discrimination that exists is in the pay gap right? Or do you have other examples?

 

 

And even if there is de facto discrimination you think voting wars are the way to solve them? I can think of many groups in America that have experienced injustice through de jure and de facto discrimination and simply came out of it through hard work.

[Giordano 135]

The largest discrimination occurring today is the poor v. rich. Differences between gender or race are irrelevant.

 

I'm glad this conversation has been brought up, I just love posting this video (revelant part starts at 1:25)

 

[RpgGamer 1090]

 

Not really, no.

 

I think I said a rut that he had dug himself into with irrational reasoning and wishful thinking, not a rut that was dug for him by centuries of prejudice, a culture of gender stereotyping which existed before he (or she) was even born, and a drastic under-representation in Congress. Furthermore, feminism isn't about men 'rescuing' women. Just like black people didn't need 'rescuing' from white people. They needed empowering through the democratic process (because that's where the real power lies) and their concerns needed legitimizing. Most of the leading figures in the feminism are women, and rightly so.

 

You could argue this guy needs empowering too. He's clearly feeling hopeless and lacks the necessary attitude and perspective to turn things around. Comparing this guy to feminism is a bit like chalk and cheese, though, wouldn't you agree?

I still can't see the difference between "rescuing" and "empowering" >_> If I say that I'm weak and I need to be empowered, I'm basically asking for someone to rescue me lol

 

 

Think of it as extrinsic verse intrinsic motivation. Empowerment comes from within, Rescuing is a reliance on others

[Omar 137]

This has to be the first time I've seen that LearnLiberty video posted by someone other than me or Horwitz.

[jasignhagj 202]

Radical feminism isn't limited to tumblr, Universities in Ontario and Quebec are infested with them.

[Estonian dude 238]

IN OTHER NEWS:

I chased 2 chicks at the same time and failed with both.

If you have read the Today thread, then

The only way life could [bleep] me even more in the ass would be by killing off my close relatives. Everything less serious has already been done this week.

[Noxx 315]

IN OTHER NEWS:

I chased 2 chicks at the same time and failed with both.

If you have read the Today thread, then

The only way life could [bleep] me even more in the ass would be by killing off my close relatives. Everything less serious has already been done this week.

 

Well, things aren't going to better with an attitude like that.