"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[Noxx]

 

One of my closest friends is about to break up with his girlfriend of 5 years for similar reasons. I'll tell you the same thing I told him:

 

You're both acting like completely normal humans and you both are getting upset with each other for not living up to an idealized, unrealistic expectation of how you two "should" behave. This is what a real relationship looks like. If you don't like it, that's nothing to feel bad about. It's completely normal.

 

The question you need to ask yourself is, "If this is what a real relationship looks like, then do I really want a "real" relationship? Or do I want something else? If I want something else, then how can I get it?"

 

 

I also told him that I'm not someone whom he should come to advice for when it comes to monogamous relationship issues, so he should still take my words with a grain of salt. I asked him how many couples he knew of who had a relationship that he wanted. He only named one relationship, and that relationship is less than a year old. SMH. Even my most rational friends can still be idiots sometimes.

The thing is i've been in relationships before where there was a lot more trust. Actually, when i was with her the first time (before we both went to different states for Uni) things were different. I would go out with my female friends and she would never bat an eye. She didn't really know any of them either. She just didn't say anything. It's just ever since we got back together. I'm not sure if an ex cheated on her or something, we don't talk about that kind of stuff (i have no interest to hear about her past boyfriends to be honest). But yeah, some of my other relationships were a lot different. A lot more trust, even in the young stages of the relationship. Generally it should be different. Trust should come with time, not get less with time.

And when it comes to what i want... Well i don't know what i'll want in the future, but right now i want what i currently have except WITH trust. She's really perfect for me otherwise.

This weekend was X-Games in Austin and for the first time ever they had competitive Call of Duty as an event. I love watching competitive CoD, so she spent the entire weekend with me, watching it with me. She tried getting into it as much as she could, got excited, etc. That's something i can't even do with my guy friends. 

[Hedgehog]

Trust usually doesn't degrade with time. It just gets harder to ignore your distrust.

[Tim]

I've sorta got a trust issue at the moment. I've been with this guy for a while now but  neither of us has really gotten up and asked the other out. I think he's shy, but also I'm not only shy, but I don't wanna get into a relationship out of trust issues that he might get bored of me quickly and just move on like my ex did. My other big worry is if I cant find work soon there's a chance I'll be forced to move home, on the other side of the flipping country. Meaning not only will I lose him (because I'm not doing long distance again) but it'd also means I have to make new friends from scratch, and for someone who's shy, has anxiety and is an introvert at 23, that's a one-way death sentence to being miserably lonely.

[obfuscator]

Getting bored and moving on can happen just as easily outside a relationship as it can inside

[Omar]

Tim, there's no solution to your trust problem. There's always going to be a chance that someone you date will get bored or move on.
I don't mean to be rude since I don't know your circumstances, but I know that over here, you can get a job at Macdonalds while you look for work and it's pretty easy to quit. Is that an option for you?

[Tim]

I've tried, as much as I hate McDonalds. They only hire under 18's these days because it's cheaper.

[RpgGamer]

When someone starts going down on you but doesnt finish the job >.>

[muggiwhplar]

I've sorta got a trust issue at the moment. I've been with this guy for a while now but  neither of us has really gotten up and asked the other out. I think he's shy, but also I'm not only shy, but I don't wanna get into a relationship out of trust issues that he might get bored of me quickly and just move on like my ex did. My other big worry is if I cant find work soon there's a chance I'll be forced to move home, on the other side of the flipping country. Meaning not only will I lose him (because I'm not doing long distance again) but it'd also means I have to make new friends from scratch, and for someone who's shy, has anxiety and is an introvert at 23, that's a one-way death sentence to being miserably lonely.

 

Just do a job search for "sales" and look for the companies hiring people with no experience. If you just post your resume online and then send it out to all of the sales job postings, the ones who are looking for people like you will start leaving you voicemails trying to set up interviews. The catch is, it's probably gonna be 100% commission-based. So you'll force yourself to learn how to sell and make good money for the rest of your life, regardless of how the economy's doing.

[RpgGamer]

Budy of mine got an offer at IBM halfway across the US (but he's a Korean Native, only studied on the East Coast) last year. Obviously he took it and has been happily living alone making 6 figures at 22 years old for about a year now. But he still texts me about this girl he met his first day at Rutgers. And now shes flying out to see him for 4 days and he can't get it through his head that no one flies halfway across the country just to hang out when theres been sexual tension for something like 5 years. Most successful kid I ever met...still doesn't understand the basics of female encounters....

[Noxx]

Me and my girlfriend went geocaching today. Well we kind of started at at like 2am and ended at 6am... and it gave us a lot of time to talk about our relationship. About everything. Everything that happened from the day she left to California 3 years ago till today. We opened up a lot of "chests" that we both wanted to keep shut because talking about it either hurt or angered one of us. Got it all out in the open. It went so much better than i would have ever expected. I don't know but for the first time ever i think we were able to be honest with each other about everything and neither of us got mad. And we talked about the whole trust issue and i think we came to an understanding about it as well.

Basically a few months ago (maybe Dec last year actually) she saw a message on my facebook from a girl i used to see in the US. It wasn't exactly an appropriate conversation to have with a girl when you have a girlfriend, and she told me that when i started acting really "protective" with my phone the past few days she kind of suspected that the same thing might have been happening again.

Basically what happened what i sent a girl a message on facebook saying happy birthday. She replied almost right away and we ended up having a conversation. She said that she saw i was back with my ex again. She knew about my ex because one night when we were on a date my ex actually called me, i rejected the call, she asked who it was, etc. So she (the girl i was on the date with) asked me who she was and if i was still seeing her. Explained to her that she was just my ex but we were still good friends. She's on the other side of the country and we keep in touch now and then.

So.... when she asked me about me being back with my ex again, she asked me if i was still with her at the time i was seeing her. I told her no, i dont do things that way. I really liked her, so i wasnt going to [bleep] around behind her back.

 

My girlfriend just saw a conversation full of likes, liked, like, etc. I'm guessing not the smartest thing i ever did.

 

So back to present. When she noticed me being dodgy with my phone she thought the same thing might have been going on. Thats why she wanted to check. But all she found were 3 un-replied messages from 2 different girls i knew back in the US.

And then i explained to her why i was being weird with my phone. Basically i'd lock it whenever she came in the room. I did this because i always got annoyed at her always being on her phone, so i guess practice your own preach? She knows my lock code anyway so it's not like i was trying to hide anything from her. I just prefer spending time actually talking to her or watching a movie with her than being on my phone. And i guess this made sense to her. 

So in a way i feel like we actually resolved things.

Theres a lot of history between me and her i don't really feel like discussing on here but things some people on here might know cause im sure i mentioned it in the past, but we just have a different kind of "connection" because of that. So when we both manage to stop being stubborn and actually sit down and talk its so easy to just clear thing sup and i guess give each other some reassurance again.

 

 

Sorry if this post has been hard to read its currently  9:30 and i've not seen sleep in 30ish hours.

Night.

[RpgGamer]

"For every 6 months a man dates a girl, he loses 6 friends"

 

Something a friend of mine said to me the other night. Resonated real hard.

[Noxx]

"For every 6 months a man dates a girl, he loses 6 friends"

 

Something a friend of mine said to me the other night. Resonated real hard.

Lol i've actually made more friends the past year, that's strange. My gf always encourages me to go out and meet other "friends" cause i'm not exactly the guy that likes having a lot of friends.

[Boris5000]

"For every 6 months a man dates a girl, he loses 6 friends"

 

Something a friend of mine said to me the other night. Resonated real hard.

By this logic I'd have -8 friends.

[Estonian dude]

That is somewhat true. Pretty much went so with my former best mate and by now, former roommate for a year. Got a girl, pretty much fell in love, still dating, didn't go out at all anymore and rejected almost any invitation to hang out with anyone else.

[Low Levelled]

[kitty] is a powerful thing.

[RpgGamer]

[kitty] is a powerful thing.

"Vagina voodoo"

[muggiwhplar]

http://www.pua-zone.com/showthread.php?12201-I-haven-t-had-sex-in-two-years

 

I like that thread

[muggiwhplar]

Went drinking with one of my friends who wanted to try OKC after seeing my success with it.

 

I asked him if I could see his phone, I wanted to try and schedule at least one date for him by the end of the night. He said he had given up and deleted his OKC account. SMH.

 

Me: Why don't you just try to do what I've been doing? It's working for me and tons of other people too.

 

Him: I just feel like I shouldn't have to change myself in order to get results. [keywords: feel; shouldn't have to]

 

Me: Ok, let me just ask you two things then: 1. how is that working out so far? Are you getting the results you want with your current strategy/beliefs?

 

Him: hahaha ok I see your point, you've got me there. No I'm not.

 

Me: Ok, 2. You've known me for almost six years now. How much do you think I've changed since you first met me?

 

Him: Well you're definitely a lot more confident.

 

Me: Right, but my core personality's basically the same, right? I'm still more or less the same person you met five years ago?

 

Him: Yeah.

 

Me: Ok so then you can still improve your dating skills while "being yourself," right?

 

Him: I have to go to the bathroom, brb.........

 

 

Well I tried :P Didn't bother to bring up the subject again when he returned.

 

I wish more people would ask themselves "How are my current beliefs/habits working out for me so far? Are they making me happy?"

 

People just don't seem to realize that if

A) your current beliefs and habits aren't making you happy

B) you do not change

 

Then you're doomed to remain unhappy

[obfuscator]

people are emotional creatures, not logical ones. not everyone is fortunate enough to be brought up in an environment that emphasizes logical decisions over emotional ones, so for a lot of people they've never really considered trying what you're suggesting. And since it's completely foreign to them, it seems insurmountable.

 

My experience is that you can change people, but it takes a long time - persistent effort and baby steps.

[muggiwhplar]

Yeah at this point I only discuss these things with my friends to plant a seed in their minds, so in the future if things go south, at least they know that they aren't completely doomed and they can come to me for help. It also helps me sleep a little better at night knowing that I at least tried to help them make smart decisions.

 

As much as I'd love to prevent them from making bad decisions in the first place, I don't think it's realistic to expect them to change without getting burned first.

 

In other words, I'm pessimistic about the next few years for my friends, however I remain optimistic about the distant future. Like you said, these things take time :P

[Estonian dude]

Curse me and my fear of taking actions.

[Low Levelled]

Curse me and my fear of taking actions.

Did the fear also inhibit you from elaborating?

[muggiwhplar]

Well you're probably gonna die lonely and unfulfilled unless you grow a pair :P

[muggiwhplar]

I thought I should write a post on how I personally overcame those fears since AFAIK most of the people ITT are still virgins, or at the very least they don't have very much control over their dating/sex/relationship lives >_>

 

Pretty much just wrote as much stuff as I could as it popped into my mind so I apologize if this post seems incoherent and shit. I also didn't feel like re-reading and proofreading it after I wrote it cuz it's long as [bleep] and I've got stuff to do :P

 

[hide=How to Succeed at Dating: A Brief Guide for Socially-Awkward Basement-Dwelling Neckbeards and Virgins:]

1. Get a part-time job in retail/customer service.

My first job was a part-time cashier at the university book store. Many of the customers were hot college girls. This job was great because it forced me to interact with hot women, even if all I was doing was ringing up their textbooks and then telling them to have a nice day. In my first week working there, I remember feeling nervous when a hot girl would come to my register. By the time I quit working there, I would always hope that hot girls would come to my register so I could talk to them.

 

This job didn't teach me how to get laid, but it did teach me that most people are inherently friendly and polite to strangers, and that making small talk with strangers (whether it's a little old lady or a smoking hot sorority girl) is nothing to be afraid of.

 

2. Spend as much time as possible with friends/acquaintances who possess desirable qualities/attitudes/beliefs

I had two close friends who I spent as much time as possible with. One friend was basically a troll in real life. He was socially fearless, he straight up didn't give a [bleep]. He would "dress up" as party boy and run around the frat house humping our fraternity brothers just to make them uncomfortable while everybody else would laugh. But the biggest thing to note here is: everybody LOVED him. He said the things that everybody else was thinking but nobody had the balls to say. People admired him for that. He also had a 4.0GPA and made a lot of contributions to the fraternity. So at the end of the day, he was well-liked by everybody.

 

It's important to note that everybody liked him because this was enough real-life proof for my brain that you can possess the same qualities as him and people won't hate you for it; quite the opposite in fact. So these days I'm very confident and carefree as a result of my time spent with him... and I'm like a people-magnet now >_> People who are super carefree and confident are a rare breed these days, so I'm a breath of fresh air for everybody that I meet, just like my friend was for me many years ago.

 

My other close friend was extremely confident and got laid all the time. We'd be out eating lunch somewhere and he'd be making dirty sexual comments to our waitress. I'd always get embarrassed, thinking about how uncomfortable and creeped out or waitress must feel... except the waitress would smile, blush, and then end up sleeping with him later on. He was proof to me that if you have a certain vibe and attitude, you can say almost anything to women and instead of creeping them out, you'll turn them on. The funny thing is, we had a mutual friend who would also feel uncomfortable when he seduced girls. He'd always say, "Man I can't believe he can say stuff like that. I'd get slapped if I said that! He's just got that certain kind of charm to him." Last week I ate dinner with that same mutual friend. Apparently I said something to our waitress that our old friend would've said. "I can't believe you just told our waitress that! If I said that, she'd slap me!" my friend said to me. I smiled to myself and changed the subject. :)

 

 

So if you follow those two basic points, you'll probably have pretty high self-esteem and you'll feel very comfortable in your own skin. You'll be able to make small talk with just about anybody and they'll think you're a pretty cool guy. But despite being a "cool guy," that will all go down the drain if you still don't understand how dating works. I know tons of guys who are social butterflies, yet still constantly get condemned to the Friend Zone.

 

3. Get a job in sales

The sales world and the dating world are extremely similar. You'll get rejected several times on a daily basis-- enough to desensitize your fear of rejection. You'll make clients very uncomfortable when you try to close the deal-- enough to desensitize your fear of discomfort and awkward situations. And you'll get in the habit of expressing your interest upfront and actively forcing people to reject you, because you will understand that is much better to be rejected than it is to be uncertain.

 

I remember my first month of sales... it was a nightmare because I couldn't get any sales. I was being too "nice" (read: passive). I'll never forget this one man I was trying to sell. I was comparing our product to his, and our product was better across the board. I was saving him money and I was getting him better stuff. He even told me how he'd thought about switching over to my product in the past. I'll never forget that conversation:

 

Him: Wow this really is a better deal then. I'll save money and I'll get better stuff.

Me: Yup! :)

(silence as he continues to compare the two products)

Him: Ok well I think I'll just stick with what I've got for now, but thanks! Bye!

 

I rarely get angry. Including this incident, I've only been "angry" about 3 times in the past 6-7 years. The reason why this pissed me off so much because it was proof that being nice and passive just isn't enough to achieve success in sales.

 

As my sales coach would later tell me, the reason why I didn't get that sale was because I didn't take control. I didn't force him to make a decision. I (incorrectly) assumed that this guy was smart enough to realize "this is a better deal. therefore I'll take it." I (incorrectly) felt like I was being "manipulative" if I took control of the situation.

 

"You need to understand, muggi," said my sales coach, "Most people are terrified of taking risks. They're terrified of being held accountable. They're terrified of making their own decisions, and having those decisions end up as poor decisions. That's why you have to take control... if they take a risk and fail, then they can tell themselves that it's your fault and not theirs. They will no longer be afraid of taking risks and making decisions because they have you to blame. These clients look like adults, but they are really just children, and you are their parent. They think they know what they want, but they don't. You know better than they do-- their judgment is impaired by fear. You are the parent, they are the child, and our product is the vegetables they don't want to eat. You both know that they should eat their vegetables. But they're never going to do it unless you take control and make them."

 

After that conversation, I started taking control in sales. Instead of waiting for my clients to come to a decision, I forced them to make a decision on the spot. Within one week, my sales tripled and my clients were all extremely grateful for my services.

 

 

Dating really isn't that different. Most guys view sex as something based on chance/luck, instead of having a systematic view of human psychology and biology.

 

If I go on a first date with a girl and I just talk to her for an hour as if she was any other person, at the end of the night she'll probably think, "he's a really cool guy!" However she probably won't want to sleep with me. Or if she does, she won't want to sleep with me until I've taken her out to dinner at least three more times and taken things very slowly (and expensively) with her. The reason why she's behaving this way is my fault for being a [kitty] and not expressing my interest in her.

 

But if on the first date, in addition to just talking to her as if she was any other person, I simply start holding her hand without asking for her permission, suddenly the chances of her wanting to come back to my place to "watch a movie" skyrocket. Why? Because now she knows that I want to [bleep] her and I'm not afraid to show it. The funny thing is, that's all it takes. We live in an interesting time period where most men are [kitties] and are afraid to be direct with women. So when a guy like me comes along, it's a breath of fresh air for her. Confident men are very rare these days. And like I said, all I'm doing is just holding her hand while I continue to talk to her as if I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary.

 

The first time I tried touching a girl on a first date, I knocked her beer over as I went to grab her hand. It was extremely awkward....... and she wouldn't stop texting me the next day. Even though I was extremely awkward and nervous about doing it, the fact that I had the balls to do it was enough to turn her on and demonstrate that I'm the kind of guy she fantasizes about.

 

I've been on dozens of dates now, and so far I've only had one girl get extremely uncomfortable when I grabbed her hand. And the funny thing is, it didn't bother me at all because by that point I understood how girls like that are rare. And not only are they rare, they probably aren't completely socially/emotionally mature yet. Even if you're awkward, most women will still be very pleased with your confidence. And a lot of the time, you can see their eyes light up when you do this. That alone is enough to convince you that you're doing something right :P

 

 

 

At the end of the day, I think for a lot of guys, the reason why they can't muster up the balls to talk to women (or touch them, or express their intent with them) is because:

1. they overestimate how unhappy rejection/failure will make them

and/or

2. deep down, they still believe what they're doing is effective

 

To give you some perspective, think about something else in which you risked failure in order to master. For example, riding a bike. When I was a little kid, I worried about everything. I didn't learn how to ride a bike until I was 9 years old (whereas most of my friends could ride their bikes by the time they were like 6 or 7). Mostly because I knew I was bad at it, and I was afraid to try to improve because I didn't want to fall of my bike and get hurt. The thought of getting injured scared the shit out of me. I didn't learn how to ride my bike until my older brother dedicated his entire day to teaching me how to learn. I looked up to my older brother and thought he was really cool, so that was my motivation to overcome my fear. I didn't want to disappoint him and waste his time. It's interesting to note that my brother came to me and basically told me, "You're learning how to ride a bike today. If you don't want to learn, tough shit, you gon' learn today." Fast forward to the end of the day and I could ride my bike decently well. Well enough to improve on my own without the fear of injuring myself.

 

The interesting thing to note is, as soon as I learned how to ride my bike, suddenly all of failures became irrelevant. It didn't matter that I fell off my bike a thousand times before learning. The success justified the failures. The failures would only remain relevant if I gave up before I succeeded. Additionally, as soon as I started risking failure, and failed, I didn't actually feel bad. Instead of feeling unhappy for failing like I thought I would, I actually felt happy for failing! Failing made me feel alive and proud of myself for doing what I knew I should be doing, even though I was terrified to do so.

 

Next time you see a hot girl, just TALK to her and see what happens. I can almost guarantee that your interaction will ultimately go nowhere, but I can also guarantee that you feel extremely happy regardless.

 

You're afraid of making a move because you're afraid that if you fail, you will think, "Wow I [bleep]ed that up, I'm such an idiot for even trying, I feel so unhappy now and I regret doing that! My life is over! I should probably just kill myself."

 

In reality, if you make a move and fail, you will think, "Wow I [bleep]ed that up, but I'm so proud of myself for trying. That wasn't as bad as I thought it would be-- in fact, it was kind of exciting! I want to do that again now! I feel more confident now than I've ever felt before!"

 

 

As an adult, I no longer have the luxury of someone forcing me outside of my comfort zone because they know what's best for me. If I want to succeed, I'm the only person who can force me out of my comfort zone to get what I want out of life. If I don't want to eat my vegetables, I don't have to, but I'll suffer the consequences for such a decision down the road. And things will remain that way until I change. Because I can guarantee that nobody is going to come along to save me and force me to eat my veggies.

 

Finally, keep in mind that your time on this earth is limited. And the sooner you start making smart choices and habits, the better your life will be in the long run. I started exercising consistently when I was 18. By the time I was 22, I could bench press 4x as much as I could at age 18. What if I started exercising at age 23 instead? Then that means when I hit age 24, I would be nowhere near lifting 4x (or even 3x or 2x) my starting weight.

 

If I'm going to live to be 70 years old, then that means it would be in my best interest to start developing healthy habits and beliefs as soon as possible. I'd rather hit age 70 with 50+ years of exercise under my belt than 1 year because at age 69 my doctor told me I'm going to die if I don't start exercising.

 

Don't wait till tomorrow. If you keep telling yourself that you're going to wait until tomorrow to start getting out of your comfort zone, then before you know it, you'll be on your deathbed with all of your fears still intact. Except this time, you'll no longer have the luxury of saying "I'll just do it tomorrow." By then it will be too late.

[/hide]

 

TL;DR:  Go get a job that forces you to be social if you get anxious around all types of strangers (not just women). Go spend as much time as possible with people who are well-liked and have what you want if you don't have high self-esteem yet. Go get a job in sales if you don't have full control over your dating life.

 

If you have any objections to my advice, let me know. Otherwise you have no excuses and your life will remain as it is until you die-- comfortable, but incomplete.

[The_Gabe]

I'm pretty sure some of Muggi's advice helped me get my girlfriend. I'm pretty sure it's not the advice from the post above, but something that is now buried within the thread...

 

Also, rejection is not a bad thing. Use it to learn. Just remember that 12 no's and a yes still means yes.