"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[obfuscator]

Personally, I'd prefer to grab a beer.

Why would you want to grab a beer? They have sharp claws and teeth! Also, diseases!

 

@muggi message me if you ever come to toronto :p

[Low Levelled]

I'd say I'm probably at the top of my list

[RpgGamer]

Id drink with all you knuckleheads, but no one lives in the Philly area

[Omar]

Best reading material for needy, insecure, entitled, "nice" guy? Someone I know keeps whining about how he can't be happy without romance on Facebook. Bonus points if not misogynistic because he's probably a feminist and he'll probably latch onto any excuse to avoid being exposed to the notion that you have to make your life happen rather than wait for it to happen to you. But anything will do.

 

[Edit] Lol @ people who drink beer

[Omar]

Right, I'm not going to baby him, but that's basically what I want him to realize; it doesn't have anything to do with feminism/how casual he wants his relationships to be. I've told him a few times already that he's got the causation backwards (happiness causes girlfriends, not the other way around) to no avail, so I'm looking for something I can just link to below his latest status.

[muggiwhplar]

Seems like a fruitless endeavor >_>

[RpgGamer]

Tell him to read the archives of this thread. Maybe he'll learn a thing or two.

[Omar]

Oh, he unfriended me. Problem solved!

[Ginger_Warrior]

I would describe myself as a feminist too, although there's obviously controversy about whether men can call themselves that and there's many different forms of feminism. Etiher way, I've read books on feminism, I follow feminism in the news and social media: I get it, and I support it.

 

His problem has nothing to do with gender inequality. Do women need a man to feel happy? No, at least they don't as a gender if not as individuals; so why would stating the same statement in reverse be any more offensive? He's just feeling sorry for himself: "Why doesn't anyone find me attractive? Why doesn't anyone want to be in a relationship with me? If I was in a relationship I wouldn't have these worries."

 

That quote about loving yourself before you can some somebody else is true. His attitude towards relationships need to change away from seeking relationships as a means of obtaining external validation against internal insecurity.

[Hedgehog]

Best reading material for needy, insecure, entitled, "nice" guy? Someone I know keeps whining about how he can't be happy without romance on Facebook. Bonus points if not misogynistic because he's probably a feminist and he'll probably latch onto any excuse to avoid being exposed to the notion that you have to make your life happen rather than wait for it to happen to you. But anything will do.

 

[Edit] Lol @ people who drink beer

http://okcupidsniceguys.tumblr.com/

[Ginger_Warrior]

I liked the one where he said he didn't want to have kids because he was "ethically" opposed to them. :lol:

[obfuscator]

A bit off topic, but men can definitely be feminists...some of the most cardcore feminists I've encountered have been men

[Ginger_Warrior]

If you have female relatives or friends (and we almost all do, barring an incredibly unfortunate series of deaths), and you support their right to go through life without being prejudiced or having their rights abused simply because they happen to be female, then you support women's rights. You're a feminist. I'm assuming we're decent blokes and we're all firmly in support of women's rights against sexual harassment, for example? There you go then.

 

You can still identify yourself as a feminist and criticise some aspects of feminism. I identify as a feminist, I certainly don't support misandry. There are those who suggest being a feminist is tantamount to misandry, but you only arrive at that conclusion following the most infantile forms of logic conceivable.

 

Similar to how you might oppose racist discrimination, but still criticise some aspects of the civil rights movement. In fact, that's a good comparison, because although Malcolm X and MLK had the same vision in mind, both had radically different methods of accomplishing it and beliefs which drove them. Likewise, people are feminists for different reasons, and believe in different methods of accomplishing gender equality.

 

As far as this guy is concerned, though, it really has no relevance whatsoever. He's single because he feels sorry for himself and wishes a 'rescuer' would come save him from the rut he's dug himself into. That's not how life works, whether you're a man or a woman.

[muggiwhplar]

Oh, he unfriended me. Problem solved!

 

I have a feeling that you weren't as "understanding" as you could have been when you responded to his post and made him feel stupid/silly/embarrassed/inferior. :P

 

As far as this guy is concerned, though, it really has no relevance whatsoever. He's single because he feels sorry for himself and wishes a 'rescuer' would come save him from the rut he's dug himself into. That's not how life works, whether you're a man or a woman.

Don't you think that agreeing with such a principle contradicts support for feminism?

 

Feminism sort of falls apart if you believe that women are responsible for their own wellbeing.

[Omar]

Feminism is an umbrella term, and some of the ideas it covers have little to no prescriptive overlap. I don't call myself a feminist because that wouldn't actually tell you anything about what I believe, even though I agree with many people who call themselves feminists.

The reason I brought it up was that I initially found a fair amount of PUA material that was way too easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater on the grounds that he wouldn't take his advice from someone who calls women sluts. You don't want to give people reasons to feel admirable for believing falsehoods.

 

@Muggi: No, I wasn't. I've been pretty understanding up until now (he does have mental and physical disabilities, but then so do I) and I didn't reply to his latest. I think he just didn't want me on his news feed, which is understandable given we're not friends and we disagree about politics.
 

[Omar]

 

As far as this guy is concerned, though, it really has no relevance whatsoever. He's single because he feels sorry for himself and wishes a 'rescuer' would come save him from the rut he's dug himself into. That's not how life works, whether you're a man or a woman.

Don't you think that agreeing with such a principle contradicts support for feminism?

 

Feminism sort of falls apart if you believe that women are responsible for their own wellbeing.

 

You're confusing self-respect and respecting other people, i.e. politics.

 

On a practical level, it's much better to adjust yourself to this than to try to change something that cannot be changed. In fact, out of respect for what little freedom you have, you owe it to yourself to do what you can instead of wallowing in self-pity. That's why people who refuse to take ownership for their own well-being are repugnant.

 

But by itself, this doesn't lead to the conclusion that there's no such thing as fairness, or to a kind of fatalism. Still out of recognition of the fact that what you do is what you have decided to do, you have to take responsibility for what you do to others, whether right or wrong. Respecting other people's rights (in our case, choosing to honour women's choices) is part of respecting yourself as a moral agent.

[Ginger_Warrior]

Don't you think that agreeing with such a principle contradicts support for feminism?

 

Feminism sort of falls apart if you believe that women are responsible for their own wellbeing.

Not really, no.

 

I think I said a rut that he had dug himself into with irrational reasoning and wishful thinking, not a rut that was dug for him by centuries of prejudice, a culture of gender stereotyping which existed before he (or she) was even born, and a drastic under-representation in Congress. Furthermore, feminism isn't about men 'rescuing' women. Just like black people didn't need 'rescuing' from white people. They needed empowering through the democratic process (because that's where the real power lies) and their concerns needed legitimizing. Most of the leading figures in the feminism are women, and rightly so.

 

You could argue this guy needs empowering too. He's clearly feeling hopeless and lacks the necessary attitude and perspective to turn things around. Comparing this guy to feminism is a bit like chalk and cheese, though, wouldn't you agree?

 

Everyone is a first wave feminist. Unless you live in Saudi Arabia. Most people are a second wave feminist. The 3rd and fourth wave feminists who spout rape culture and the patriarchy are a controversial and unsupported even among women who identify as feminists. 

So... you're saying not all people belonging to a political movement necessarily agree with everyone else who's part of that movement. How is this abnormal?

[Ginger_Warrior]

Id go so far as to say that today there is equality of opportunity to succeed.

There's plenty of evidence which contradicts that belief. While de jure gender inequality has been all but eliminated (and it hasn't totally), de facto discrimination is still very much alive and kicking.

 

As to why its a dirty word is because the social justice tumblr feminist movement is viewed as baroque and sometimes misandrist and a lot of the people who go on about how they can't stand feminists/feminism are simply reflecting that they can't stand this particular group of people who call themselves feminists.

Is it the fault of a movement that some people on tumblr can't differentiate between a smaller, more radical branch of a movement; and the wider movement itself? I'd have thought the burden of responsibility lies with those making the original error, not those instigating the movement in the first place.

[muggiwhplar]

Not really, no.

 

I think I said a rut that he had dug himself into with irrational reasoning and wishful thinking, not a rut that was dug for him by centuries of prejudice, a culture of gender stereotyping which existed before he (or she) was even born, and a drastic under-representation in Congress. Furthermore, feminism isn't about men 'rescuing' women. Just like black people didn't need 'rescuing' from white people. They needed empowering through the democratic process (because that's where the real power lies) and their concerns needed legitimizing. Most of the leading figures in the feminism are women, and rightly so.

 

You could argue this guy needs empowering too. He's clearly feeling hopeless and lacks the necessary attitude and perspective to turn things around. Comparing this guy to feminism is a bit like chalk and cheese, though, wouldn't you agree?

I still can't see the difference between "rescuing" and "empowering" >_> If I say that I'm weak and I need to be empowered, I'm basically asking for someone to rescue me lol

[Ginger_Warrior]

If you think simply feeling sorry for yourself is equivalent to deeply ingrained societal prejudice, then I think this conversation has reached a dead end.

[muggiwhplar]

Deeply ingrained social prejudice causes people to feel sorry for themselves. I'm not arguing whether or not their sorrow is legitimate. I'm just saying that their sorrow exists, and they want someone else to rescue/empower them.

[Giordano]

The largest discrimination occurring today is the poor v. rich. Differences between gender or race are irrelevant.

 

I'm glad this conversation has been brought up, I just love posting this video (revelant part starts at 1:25)

 

[RpgGamer]

 

Not really, no.

 

I think I said a rut that he had dug himself into with irrational reasoning and wishful thinking, not a rut that was dug for him by centuries of prejudice, a culture of gender stereotyping which existed before he (or she) was even born, and a drastic under-representation in Congress. Furthermore, feminism isn't about men 'rescuing' women. Just like black people didn't need 'rescuing' from white people. They needed empowering through the democratic process (because that's where the real power lies) and their concerns needed legitimizing. Most of the leading figures in the feminism are women, and rightly so.

 

You could argue this guy needs empowering too. He's clearly feeling hopeless and lacks the necessary attitude and perspective to turn things around. Comparing this guy to feminism is a bit like chalk and cheese, though, wouldn't you agree?

I still can't see the difference between "rescuing" and "empowering" >_> If I say that I'm weak and I need to be empowered, I'm basically asking for someone to rescue me lol

 

 

Think of it as extrinsic verse intrinsic motivation. Empowerment comes from within, Rescuing is a reliance on others

[Omar]

This has to be the first time I've seen that LearnLiberty video posted by someone other than me or Horwitz.

[jasignhagj]

Radical feminism isn't limited to tumblr, Universities in Ontario and Quebec are infested with them.