"I want a girlfriend/boyfriend", and other such relationship advice

[Ginger_Warrior]

http://www.youtube.com/user/GoodLookingLoser69

 

Awesome channel. Shows how simple it is. Even has guides for "nervous" and "basic" (normal) guys.

There was some good in that, some bad. Generally, trying to pick up girls when they're walking home isn't going to end that well. Just like you, they're mostly tired and stressed from working all day, which for most people is reason enough to be left alone. Let's also face it: quite a lot of the time when guys approach girls for no good reason it's usually something they'd be better off moving away from, and a lot of girls are wary of that.

 

Still, the flirting and the use of touch seemed useful.

[muggiwhplar]

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/GoodLookingLoser69

 

Awesome channel. Shows how simple it is. Even has guides for "nervous" and "basic" (normal) guys.

There was some good in that, some bad. Generally, trying to pick up girls when they're walking home isn't going to end that well. Just like you, they're mostly tired and stressed from working all day, which for most people is reason enough to be left alone. Let's also face it: quite a lot of the time when guys approach girls for no good reason it's usually something they'd be better off moving away from, and a lot of girls are wary of that.

 

Still, the flirting and the use of touch seemed useful.

 

 

Yes you're right. Which is another reason why I really like his channel-- one of his videos is a compilation of the "most common rejections" that he gets. He states that rejections are common, and that's awesome since I think most people refrain from talking to girls (or guys) and they refrain from touching them simply because they fear rejection.

 

Instead of "playing it safe" and trying to passively trying to get people to like you, he recommends using touching as a means to immediately determine whether or not you and your person of interest are actually compatible in order to minimize heartbreak and time wasted. In hindsight, there were so many girls in my past that I liked but I was too afraid to make a move on them. As a result, I never got anywhere with them and was always questioning their behaviors. If I had simply followed this guy's philosophy from the start, I would have known from the beginning whether or not they were a worthy "pursuit" for me.

 

In other words, I really like how he states that rejection is inevitable, and more importantly, that rejection isn't a big deal, and that the successes are common enough to outweigh those rejections. And I also love how "normal" his approaches are. I think his conversations could even be described as "awkward" most of the time-- and that's what makes it so inspiring. That you can be "awkward" around women and still be extremely successful so long as you follow his principles.

[Estonian dude]

Aaaaaaand...

I didn't do it.

Her cat took me hostage for pretty much all the time I was there.

 

New chance tomorrow.

[RpgGamer]

Touching on first date/first meet is super key, just to reiterate/echo the point. I can't tell you how many poor dates I had in my younger years due to fear of touching. Now it's "Lock eyes and touch" and it's been a real winning strategy since. 

[Ginger_Warrior]

Aaaaaaand...

I didn't do it.

Her cat took me hostage for pretty much all the time I was there.

 

New chance tomorrow.

You only get so many chances dude.

 

I had a lot of thoughts about muggi's post before but now I've got tired (it's midnight) and they don't make sense no more. I'll try again in the morning. :)

[Ginger_Warrior]

Righto, slept now.

 

One the best pieces of dating advice I ever saw was this, and it's backed up by what that channel says about rejection: The majority of women are not and will never be attracted to you. That sounds like daft, fatalistic advice: Oh good heavens, if most women don't find me attractive, how will I ever find anyone?! When you think about it though, it takes the pressure off. I think a lot of guys out there think that if a woman rejects you, it must be your fault. It's the receding hairline, the funny shaped nose, the lack of interesting banter, the scrawny figure. A staggering 63% of British men think their arms or chest aren't muscular enough; 1 in 10 would trade a year of their life for the ideal weight and shape. The idea that in an image-complex world, men don't suffer body image issues like their women counterparts is asinine. But the reality is, a date / hook-up / whatever was never on the table to begin with, so you haven't really "lost" anything. The trick is finding the ones who do find you attractive, and learning what signs people give off when they put you in that zone.

 

This also lays death to this idea of a "friend-zone": the concept that women irreversibly and definitively place men into a metaphorical box once they believe the man isn't interested in them sexually, or otherwise lacks the confidence to make a move. A concept which, from observing post-pubescent lads around me at university, causes far more anguish and anxiety than it was originally intended to resolve. The fact of the matter is, they probably weren't interested in the first place. It wasn't anything you did or didn't do, that's just life. In business, you might have someone approach you with a deal, and you might not be interested because it's not what you're looking for. That's not to say what they're offering is bad, it's just not what you're after at that moment in time, or perhaps at any moment in time. The same is true with dating. As soon as you give me one good argument to suggest why you should go on a date with a girl you don't find attractive, simply because they found you attractive, I might be obliged to believe that girls should return the favour. Can't think of one? Didn't think so.

 

Touch is a risky area, but it needn't be. I remember when Dan touched (no pun intended) on the subject a few years ago, and if I recall correctly, his advice was banned by moderators. Touch is one of the most effective ways we form connections with other people. We hug and shake hands when we meet people. We tap shoulders and hold elbows to get people's attention. We hold hands when offering sympathy, security and support. We cuddle up to each other when watching scary films. I'm a little bit cautious to recommend touching to guy friends, but that's more because I'm afraid that they'll take that advice to mean, "So I grope her ass and see if she's interested?" rather than the advice that channel is actually trying to give.

 

Just don't be a dick. Are you touching somewhere inappropriate (boobs, ass, legs etc.)? Is your touching likely to make the person alarmed or scared? Has the person already told you, or made it otherwise clear, that they're not interested in your advances? Does the context make touching inappropriate or threatening (work, being backed against a wall etc.)? Are you really only touching this person to suggest how physically attractive you find them / their body / genitals? If so, don't do it.

 

You'll see in that video he starts by holding her hand, in an open area where she can move in just about any direction she wants, and she allows him. That's a good example of where touching is appropriate, and even useful, to forming a relationship with another person.

[RpgGamer]

I miss IamDan

[Estonian dude]

I think I might have lost another one.

 

Yay for half a year of searching for someone I might like!

[RpgGamer]

You'll change your behavior when you finally actually tire of the pattern

[Tim]

I can vouch for that. ^

[The_Gabe]

Ditto.

[Noxx]

So last weekend we went to a friend's birthday. We bumped into one of my ex-girlfriends there. It was slightly awkward because she and my girlfriend never liked each other, even before i met either of them. But my girlfriend knows i always considered her to be one of the hottest girls i've ever dated. Later that night she asked me if i still thought she was hot. I told her that since she gained a few pounds, i don't.  Not even in the slightest. Since i never really found her to have an attractive personality, there was now nothing about her that i found attractive. She continued by asking me if i would feel the same about her if she gained weight. I gave her my honest answer. I told her that i probably couldn't stop loving her, unless she did something that really hurt/upset me. But if she gained weight, i would stop being attracted to her. I would leave her, but i'd still love her (and probably be angry at her for not taking care of herself). I guess she was a bit surprised by my answer, because she fell silent for a while afterwards. I explained to her (she already knew this anyway) that i grew up in a very health conscious house. And a house where being overweight was always associated with being unhealthy. My grandmother died of obesity. At age 67 she weighed a whopping 160KG and she was a mere 5'3" tall. She was as wide as she was tall. I saw the stress this created not only for my grandfather, but for my father and his brothers. As my grandfather couldn't pay for hospital bills, the burden was places on his kids.

My grandmother's condition was not hereditary, it was because of pure laziness. She had 4 maids that did everything for her (this was before their financial struggle) so she never needed to lift a finger.

Since then my family has been extremely health conscious. I've been underweight my whole life (by a KG or two) and i've always been healthy. Ignorant or not, if i can do it yo can too. That has always been my mentality. I realise that bodies differ, and my metabolism will be faster than other's. But if i can keep my figure, then so can you. 

Anyway, back on track. After telling my girlfriend this, she told me that she doesn't understand why i would say that. I explained to her that i "fell in love" with who she was, and what she looked like. "I didn't see your personality from across the room, i saw your 'body' " or something like that. I was attracted to her, and still am, and that is what "keeps the spark alive". If she no longer first my criteria of attractive, then why would i stay with her? Why should i punish myself daily, being with someone i don't find attractive, just because?

 

I realize i'm not wording myself very well right now, keep in mind it's 2am and i've had a 10 hour day of studying. Just something that's been on my mind a day or two.

Was curious what you guys think of a situation like this.

[obfuscator]

well, she's going to get old and ugly if you stay with her, despite any efforts she makes to the contrary

[Noxx]

well, she's going to get old and ugly if you stay with her, despite any efforts she makes to the contrary

Yeah of course that's natural and unavoidable. But gaining weight due to an unhealthy lifestyle is not.

[RpgGamer]

This is phrased much better than your previous wall

 

 

well, she's going to get old and ugly if you stay with her, despite any efforts she makes to the contrary

Yeah of course that's natural and unavoidable. But gaining weight due to an unhealthy lifestyle is not.

[Ginger_Warrior]

What you basically said to her in that sentence was this:

 

"I don't give a rat's arse about anything other than your figure. This is nothing more than sex for me. And the only reason I'm with you is because I stopped wanting sex from that other girl and you were the next best thing."

 

That might not have been what you meant, but it's definitely what you said.

[obfuscator]

 

well, she's going to get old and ugly if you stay with her, despite any efforts she makes to the contrary

Yeah of course that's natural and unavoidable. But gaining weight due to an unhealthy lifestyle is not.

 

of course, but they both have the same effect. and if her looks are the only thing attracting you to her....then the outcome will be the same

[obfuscator]

 

well, she's going to get old and ugly if you stay with her, despite any efforts she makes to the contrary

Yeah of course that's natural and unavoidable. But gaining weight due to an unhealthy lifestyle is not.

 

of course, but they both have the same effect. and if her looks are the only think attracting you to her....then the outcome will be the same

[RpgGamer]

What you basically said to her in that sentence was this:

 

"I don't give a rat's arse about anything other than your figure. This is nothing more than sex for me. And the only reason I'm with you is because I stopped wanting sex from that other girl and you were the next best thing."

 

That might not have been what you meant, but it's definitely what you said.

I dont feel that's what he said, but its absolutely what she heard. At the very least we know she ain't getting fat any time soon. And if she does its to passively piss off Noxx

[muggiwhplar]

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2013/05/05/love-and-lust/

 

Sexual attraction and love are two completely different things, let's not confuse the two.

[Noxx]

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2013/05/05/love-and-lust/

 

Sexual attraction and love are two completely different things, let's not confuse the two.

Exactly. I'll still love her because she's an amazing person. But i'll no longer feel sexually attracted to her, so what's the point of continuing a committed monogamous relationship with her? If i have to fantasize about other women every time i have sex with her, why don't i just have sex with other women instead? 

[Ginger_Warrior]

Why are you justifying yourself to us? It's not us you offended.

 

[...]

 

I wasn't making some deep moral point about love and lust or about how you should stay in a relationship with someone you don't find sexually attractive. That's none of my business and it's your choice. I was simply trying to show you why she might have taken to that comment so badly. But, whatever. You seem to think the way to stop offending her is by pointing out how much you're in the right. Well, yeah, you might be right, but it won't make her feel any better: http://lesswrong.com/lw/j6o/according_to_dale_carnegie_you_cant_win_an/.

[muggiwhplar]

 

 

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2013/05/05/love-and-lust/

 

Sexual attraction and love are two completely different things, let's not confuse the two.

Exactly. I'll still love her because she's an amazing person. But i'll no longer feel sexually attracted to her, so what's the point of continuing a committed monogamous relationship with her? If i have to fantasize about other women every time i have sex with her, why don't i just have sex with other women instead?

That is one of the biggest reasons why I am not monogamous >_>

 

 

Ginger I don't think he was getting defensive or anything. Relatively sure everybody ITT is more or less in agreement here. The only one who doesn't agree is Noxx's gf

[Giordano]

I really doubt she'll, or anyone else, ever understand that.

 

 

While all this monogamy/polygamy talk we've had here over the many months is all interesting and stuff, it's not something I can see being used in reality with the vast majority of people (when you want a somewhat serious relationship).

[obfuscator]

I do think Noxx owes it to her to make his point very clear though. It is a somewhat untraditional point of view, so she could perhaps be forgiven for thinking "he's just joking" or something like that.

 

If noxx wants to be polyamorous (essentially what he's describing even if not using that name) then he needs to be clear and direct with her about it. If she accepts it, great. If not, they can both move on.