Revolutionary Summoning training method- Brainstorm

[compfreak847]

120 Charms/hour at waterfiends, free.

 

161 Charms/hour at Rock lobsters, 713,874 gp/hour.

 

(34% faster)

 

180k mage xp/hour, 78k combat xp/hour.

 

 

 

I would say the xp you get is worth about ~2x at Rock lobsters (factoring in mage is easier to get than combat) (Edit 2: Ignore this, I'm 99% sure I'm completely wrong. Getting info now.)

 

 

 

(Just for the hell of it. If you discount xp, if you make 2.09m+/hour, it's worth it..)

 

 

 

I'll finish it later, I have to find out how much mage xp is worth, and how much combat xp is worth.

 

Your ignoring several important things that would sway the balance considerably.

 

 

 

First of all, waterfiends are 100 crimson an hour as a reasonable max. Second, bursting provides far more 2ndary charms then fiends, enough that they should also be taken into consideration. I don't rember exactly, but I believe it was somewhere around 1/3 extra XP from the non-crimson charms, including the random 0-22 (yes, 22) blue charms I've gotten from 1k bursts, 4 being a good average. I would say at least 200 crimson worth of XP at lobsters. Combat XP is much easier then magic XP; you can get 80k an hour for free just by standing there, and over 110k by spending 80k on pots and clicking 4 times every 5 minutes. Magic, when done in the usual ways, takes several thousand clicks per hour to get 65k XP, and at a loss. On top of that, you get a LARGE amount of hitpoints XP from bursting; although some may consider this worthless, it's still useful for the majority. So we're saying, roughly, that bursting is 200 crimson worth of XP per hour, at a cost of 725k. Waterfiends is roughly 100 crimson per hour, at a cost of 0. Meaning that if you make more then 725k an hour, bursting is better. That's not taking into account the fact that you get much more XP at lobsters, and that the XP is in a tougher skill. I'm surprised the number is that high, but I could be forgetting something. I have all my old spreadsheets with the XP for lobsters and waterfiends, but I'm too lazy to dig that up right now. However, based on my previous results, I'm fairly confident that the 725k number is if anything slightly high.

[compfreak847]

[hide=]

230 charms/1k burst

 

700 burst/hour

 

180k xp/hour

 

120 crimsons/hour at waterfiends (piety) You break even, if not gain profit there... I'll count it as break even.

 

(78% crimson drops) 153 kills/hour. 128 hp. 19,584 hp/hour= 78,336 combat xp, 26,111 hp xp/hour.

 

 

 

1020k/1k bursts.

 

230/1k bursts.

 

 

 

4434 gp/Charm at Rock lobsters

 

0gp/charm at Waterfiends (Assume, although you gain profit...)

 

 

 

120 charms/hour at Waterfiends

 

0.7x230 = 161/hour

 

 

 

What I have so far. It's messy... let me post a new one and use this one as reference.

 

Waterfiends are a tad off - I havn't tried with void melee\SS, but with z spear and the usual best stuff (super sets, piety, unicorn, fighting as fast as I can etc.), I top out at 103 crimson as the absolulte max per hour, and that was a run where almost every charm was crimson. I usually get around 95-98, but not 120. 2 more strength levels\void melee\SS might help a bit, but I'm not convinced that void melee is good there - I like the prayer bonus from proslyte.

 

 

 

Void melee is supposed to be the absolute best thing here from what I've heard. :-#

[/hide]

 

 

 

I'm not sure with piety; everyone I met there with void wasn't using piety, and I was outhitting them by far. The prayer bonus from proslyte\nezinot helm seem rather large, and void's max hit is nearly equal. The accuracy boost isn't all that great either, considering your giving up +12 from the barrows gloves.. Obviously its slightly superior offensivewise, but the prayer bonus from my standard outfit makes me think \it would be better.

 

 

 

But with Pros wouldn't you get hit by those mage attacks quite a lot? The upside to Void is that it has wierdly high mage defense and the obvious offensive power. But then again, I'm not much of an expert at Waterfiends.

 

I assume you haven't tried 88 summoning\SGS at waterfiends. Suffice to say, it rocks. Sometimes I have to wear karil's skirt for that extra bit of mage defence, but usually not. Now I go more for karils skirt\no range pray, but either way the defence beats void. Voids offensive power is blown far out of proportion, though. And I'm usually not concentrating enough to get 100 crimson per hour; 90-95 is a realistic number.

[Inuashakent]

EDIT: Thanks, I really need critism. That's what makes math accurate. Always looking for errors. Take a look at this before I continue.

 

 

 

100 Charms/hour at waterfiends, free.

 

200 Charms/hour at Rock lobsters, 713,874 gp/hour.

 

(100% faster)

 

180k mage xp/hour, 78k combat xp/hour.

 

 

 

(Just for the hell of it. If you discount xp, if you make 713k+/hour, it's worth it..)

 

 

 

100k xp/hour is possible at Zombie gorillas. -40k gp/hour. You can get 80k/hour by Casting Humidify and magic imbue. 4 Humidify for every 1 imbue. 65 xp for humidify, and 86 for imbue. So thats 346 per "set", and 5 spells per set. That means 231 "sets"/hour. 18 Astrals per "set", and 156 per astral. 2808 gp/set. 970k/hour. So the difference is 930k gp, and 20k xp. Hmm... not sure which is more efficient. Alching or this. Alching is 65k/hour, with around -40k loss... same as gorillas. I'll do the math for both, and see which one comes out as the correct option. 65k vs 930k gp + 80k. 15k xp = 930k. 62gp/xp. No math needed, we see that it is clearly inefficient compared to alching. (Don't make me do pointless math. :XD:)

 

 

 

65:100

 

 

 

180k mage to 78k combat xp. Factor in the difference in xp, and 180k to 57k general xp. So you gain 3.15x more xp in the skill.

 

 

 

MESSY AGAIN. Let me start a new sheet.

[BabyPunchers]

[hide=]

230 charms/1k burst

 

700 burst/hour

 

180k xp/hour

 

120 crimsons/hour at waterfiends (piety) You break even, if not gain profit there... I'll count it as break even.

 

(78% crimson drops) 153 kills/hour. 128 hp. 19,584 hp/hour= 78,336 combat xp, 26,111 hp xp/hour.

 

 

 

1020k/1k bursts.

 

230/1k bursts.

 

 

 

4434 gp/Charm at Rock lobsters

 

0gp/charm at Waterfiends (Assume, although you gain profit...)

 

 

 

120 charms/hour at Waterfiends

 

0.7x230 = 161/hour

 

 

 

What I have so far. It's messy... let me post a new one and use this one as reference.

 

Waterfiends are a tad off - I havn't tried with void melee\SS, but with z spear and the usual best stuff (super sets, piety, unicorn, fighting as fast as I can etc.), I top out at 103 crimson as the absolulte max per hour, and that was a run where almost every charm was crimson. I usually get around 95-98, but not 120. 2 more strength levels\void melee\SS might help a bit, but I'm not convinced that void melee is good there - I like the prayer bonus from proslyte.

 

 

 

Void melee is supposed to be the absolute best thing here from what I've heard. :-#

[/hide]

 

 

 

I'm not sure with piety; everyone I met there with void wasn't using piety, and I was outhitting them by far. The prayer bonus from proslyte\nezinot helm seem rather large, and void's max hit is nearly equal. The accuracy boost isn't all that great either, considering your giving up +12 from the barrows gloves.. Obviously its slightly superior offensivewise, but the prayer bonus from my standard outfit makes me think \it would be better.

 

 

 

But with Pros wouldn't you get hit by those mage attacks quite a lot? The upside to Void is that it has wierdly high mage defense and the obvious offensive power. But then again, I'm not much of an expert at Waterfiends.

 

I assume you haven't tried 88 summoning\SGS at waterfiends. Suffice to say, it rocks. Sometimes I have to wear karil's skirt for that extra bit of mage defence, but usually not. Now I go more for karils skirt\no range pray, but either way the defence beats void. Voids offensive power is blown far out of proportion, though. And I'm usually not concentrating enough to get 100 crimson per hour; 90-95 is a realistic number.

 

 

 

Fair enough, I concede. I neither have the money for the Sgs or the summoning for the Unicorn.Actually killing waterfiends right now for the last 7 levels i need fo r88. :

[compfreak847]

120 Charms/hour at waterfiends, free.

 

161 Charms/hour at Rock lobsters, 713,874 gp/hour.

 

(34% faster)

 

180k mage xp/hour, 78k combat xp/hour.

 

 

 

(Just for the hell of it. If you discount xp, if you make 2.09m+/hour, it's worth it..)

 

 

 

100k xp/hour is possible at Zombie gorillas. -40k gp/hour. You can get 80k/hour by Casting Humidify and magic imbue. 4 Humidify for every 1 imbue. 65 xp for humidify, and 86 for imbue. So thats 346 per "set", and 5 spells per set. That means 231 "sets"/hour. 18 Astrals per "set", and 156 per astral. 2808 gp/set. 970k/hour. So the difference is 930k gp, and 20k xp.

 

 

 

Assuming you get

 

 

 

Not finished. Lazy. Lol, I'll finish it later, again.

 

Your still not using the right numbers =S

 

 

 

There's no way your getting 120 crimson at waterfiends; even with the extra charms besides crimson it barely breaks 100. And don't discount the extras from bursting, although I suppose some deduction should be made for the more expensive green ones. The speed of crafting makes the lesser XP much less of an issue, I got from 70-89 summoning in a day using bursted charms.

 

 

 

200 crimson 'worth' of XP per hour is possible even at the 7 lob spot, although I can't say much about 9 lobs. And if your using a maging method at a cost of 970k/hour (possibly misread), my calculations show that you'd be making a profit with bursting. Pick another method for training magic; spending 970k an hour for 80k mage xp is impractical.

[Inuashakent]

120 Charms/hour at waterfiends, free.

 

161 Charms/hour at Rock lobsters, 713,874 gp/hour.

 

(34% faster)

 

180k mage xp/hour, 78k combat xp/hour.

 

 

 

(Just for the hell of it. If you discount xp, if you make 2.09m+/hour, it's worth it..)

 

 

 

100k xp/hour is possible at Zombie gorillas. -40k gp/hour. You can get 80k/hour by Casting Humidify and magic imbue. 4 Humidify for every 1 imbue. 65 xp for humidify, and 86 for imbue. So thats 346 per "set", and 5 spells per set. That means 231 "sets"/hour. 18 Astrals per "set", and 156 per astral. 2808 gp/set. 970k/hour. So the difference is 930k gp, and 20k xp.

 

 

 

Assuming you get

 

 

 

Not finished. Lazy. Lol, I'll finish it later, again.

 

Your still not using the right numbers =S

 

 

 

There's no way your getting 120 crimson at waterfiends; even with the extra charms besides crimson it barely breaks 100. And don't discount the extras from bursting, although I suppose some deduction should be made for the more expensive green ones. The speed of crafting makes the lesser XP much less of an issue, I got from 70-89 summoning in a day using bursted charms.

 

 

 

200 crimson 'worth' of XP per hour is possible even at the 7 lob spot, although I can't say much about 9 lobs. And if your using a maging method at a cost of 970k/hour (possibly misread), my calculations show that you'd be making a profit with bursting. Pick another method for training magic; spending 970k an hour for 80k mage xp is impractical.

 

 

 

Wow lol, you typed that as I was editing. MIND READER!

[nyyankees588]

Profit bursting.. I don get what your saying?

[Inuashakent]

713k+/hour, but you gain 3.15x more xp. So if you gain 226k/hour, you're better off bursting. I did something wrong, lol.

[compfreak847]

713k+/hour, but you gain 3.15x more xp. So if you gain 226k/hour, you're better off bursting. I did something wrong, lol.

 

Lol, you used a magic rate that has 25% more xp then alching but costs 900k more

 

 

 

Still, you get my point - bursting isn't anywhere near as bad as people seem to believe. I'd venture to say that anyone who can merch or do GWD should burst, even without considering that your getting 180k mage and 40k+ hp an hour.

[Inuashakent]

713k+/hour, but you gain 3.15x more xp. So if you gain 226k/hour, you're better off bursting. I did something wrong, lol.

 

Lol, you used a magic rate that has 25% more xp then alching but costs 900k more

 

 

 

Still, you get my point - bursting isn't anywhere near as bad as people seem to believe. I'd venture to say that anyone who can merch or do GWD should burst, even without considering that your getting 180k mage and 40k+ hp an hour.

 

 

 

I didn't. In the math I said that I wouldn't do that.

 

 

 

I'll do the math for both, and see which one comes out as the correct option. 65k vs 930k gp + 80k. 15k xp = 930k. 62gp/xp. No math needed, we see that it is clearly inefficient compared to alching. (Don't make me do pointless math.)

[xSxqPowerx]

Why has this topic strayed from the fact that someone mentioned an incredible method and will not share it?

[Inuashakent]

Why has this topic strayed from the fact that someone mentioned an incredible method and will not share it?

 

 

 

This topic doesn't annoy my friend and is much more interesting. Also, nobody has any ideas. :lol:

[compfreak847]

713k+/hour, but you gain 3.15x more xp. So if you gain 226k/hour, you're better off bursting. I did something wrong, lol.

 

Lol, you used a magic rate that has 25% more xp then alching but costs 900k more

 

 

 

Still, you get my point - bursting isn't anywhere near as bad as people seem to believe. I'd venture to say that anyone who can merch or do GWD should burst, even without considering that your getting 180k mage and 40k+ hp an hour.

 

 

 

I didn't. In the math I said that I wouldn't do that.

 

 

 

I'll do the math for both, and see which one comes out as the correct option. 65k vs 930k gp + 80k. 15k xp = 930k. 62gp/xp. No math needed, we see that it is clearly inefficient compared to alching. (Don't make me do pointless math.)

 

Oops... I didn't read the edited version :wall:

 

 

 

Anyway, assume that you get 60k from alching per hour, at a cost of roughly 40k

 

Melee is 100k XP\hour, at a cost of roughly 40k

 

 

 

So your losing 30k worth of cash for the melee XP, but earning 120k worth of cash from the magic, meaning a 90k advantage over fiends; subtract 90k from the 712k to get 622k as the tipping point. Now assume that you'll spend 45 minutes getting the melee XP that you missed while bursting, but 3 hours getting the magic XP you missed from waterfiends. Also note that you get at least twice the HP XP from bursting; I won't count that as it does not matter to many people, but at least keep it in mind. So for every hour of bursting and 45 minutes of monkeys, your getting 180k mage XP, 200 crimson, and 75k melee XP at a cost of 742k and an hour and 45 minutes. At the same rate, for every two hours of waterfiends (making it same number of charms for simplicity) and 3 hours of alching, your getting 180k mage XP, 200 crimson, and 75k melee XP at a cost of 90k (for the mage XP) and 5 hours. So, you end up spending 3 hours and 15 minutes saving 622k, meaning your time has to be worth more then 191k to burst vs. waterfiends. Obviously, others will balance different skills more highly then others; but I tried to be impartial and involve skills as little as possible. The hitpoints XP for the two methods would be similar, as you are spending twice as long at waterfiends vs. bursting. Still, I'm hoping that anyone high level enough to make the decision can make the extra 191k per hour of bursting...

[compfreak847]

Why has this topic strayed from the fact that someone mentioned an incredible method and will not share it?

 

Because of two things.

 

#1, No one will guess it. The person who mentioned it spent months looking at and testing various charms and monsters, and stumbled on it completely by accident.

 

#2, if 5 people started using it, it would be nerfed or ruined in under 24 hours.

[Inuashakent]

Never doing waterfiends again. Although I still them for getting me 90 summon for free. If I get them for a slayer task, I will still love them enough to... KILL them.

 

 

 

[xSxqPowerx]

Why has this topic strayed from the fact that someone mentioned an incredible method and will not share it?

 

Because of two things.

 

#1, No one will guess it. The person who mentioned it spent months looking at and testing various charms and monsters, and stumbled on it completely by accident.

 

#2, if 5 people started using it, it would be nerfed or ruined in under 24 hours.

 

Which makes me think it doesn't involve killing monsters for charms at all.

[compfreak847]

Never doing waterfiends again. Although I still them for getting me 90 summon for free. If I get them for a slayer task, I will still love them enough to... KILL them.

 

 

 

 

Ahhhh... too much love. :evil: :twisted: :twisted: :evil:

 

 

 

Anyway, yeah... Now I remember why I was so annoyed with people who thought waterfiends were better. Just try convincing them otherwise, I dare you. The fact that 191k+ income make them better is of no matter to them. Oh, and I'd like to point out that for those with higher incomes, barraging is even better. I don't remember all the details, so I won't make much of an argument, but I want to say the price crossover point was around 950k, entirely possible for those of us who GWD and merch :

 

 

 

I'm not a big waterfiends fan, though. I've died their twice due to lag. I like to toy with fate by leaving my hp at 20-30 with turning protection pray on and off. No food, outfit worth several mill, staring at my unicorn and waiting for that little bar to hit "20". Then again, I got ROLed out of rock lobsters with roughly 30m in my outfit\invo. Three times. Ring of life has saved me several hundred mill, but is annoying on occasions (getting hp low at bandos as the last minion dies? Getting teled out as you click to eat the shark? Having your team get 2 plates in 3 kills while your teleing back to the bank for your forgotten hammer?) That stupid bandos door is the bane of my existence - it's made me lose 3 tassets, the aforementioned 2 plates, a hilt and 4 shards. I still get a sinking feeling every time I click that door.

 

 

 

ANYYYYWAYYYY

 

 

 

Burst those lobsters! And at least green got off the stupid topic. And I'm glad I got a chance to use math again :

[compfreak847]

Why has this topic strayed from the fact that someone mentioned an incredible method and will not share it?

 

Because of two things.

 

#1, No one will guess it. The person who mentioned it spent months looking at and testing various charms and monsters, and stumbled on it completely by accident.

 

#2, if 5 people started using it, it would be nerfed or ruined in under 24 hours.

 

Which makes me think it doesn't involve killing monsters for charms at all.

 

Meh, I'm getting a bit tired of the PMs I'm getting from random strangers. Let's let this die already, please? It can't benefit anyone, even it it was somehow guessed it would only ruin it. This topic has turned into a great discussion though :shock:

[Italian5kamikaze]

Why has this topic strayed from the fact that someone mentioned an incredible method and will not share it?

 

Because of two things.

 

#1, No one will guess it. The person who mentioned it spent months looking at and testing various charms and monsters, and stumbled on it completely by accident.

 

#2, if 5 people started using it, it would be nerfed or ruined in under 24 hours.

 

Which makes me think it doesn't involve killing monsters for charms at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Or if it even exists, the only reason I doubt it does is because the guy who mentioned it hasnt gotten 99 and if the method was really that good I dont see why you would wait and risk someone finding out and then it getting ruined.

[compfreak847]

Why has this topic strayed from the fact that someone mentioned an incredible method and will not share it?

 

Because of two things.

 

#1, No one will guess it. The person who mentioned it spent months looking at and testing various charms and monsters, and stumbled on it completely by accident.

 

#2, if 5 people started using it, it would be nerfed or ruined in under 24 hours.

 

Which makes me think it doesn't involve killing monsters for charms at all.

 

 

 

 

 

Or if it even exists, the only reason I doubt it does is because the guy who mentioned it hasnt gotten 99 and if the method was really that good I dont see why you would wait and risk someone finding out and then it getting ruined.

 

Three reasons:

 

I only found it recently

 

I'm busy in RL around now, and cannot go on much to train with it

 

I didn't realize so much would come out of one thoughtless post

 

 

 

I'd just like to point that out before the witch hunt begins. And for the last time, let this die already. Green apparently has, now would you and Sqx please stop? I'm having to cut and paste a generic response to all PMs as I don't have time to reply. Your not going to guess it, I'm not going to tell you, It wouldn't do any good anyway. End of story. Join the great discussion me and inushakent have going on, although it appears to be dying :x

[toast647]

Three reasons:

 

I only found it recently

 

I'm busy in RL around now, and cannot go on much to train with it

 

I didn't realize so much would come out of one thoughtless post

 

 

 

You've gained 36k summoning xp in the last month, how much did you test it? :roll:

[Italian5kamikaze]

Three reasons:

 

I only found it recently

 

I'm busy in RL around now, and cannot go on much to train with it

 

I didn't realize so much would come out of one thoughtless post

 

 

 

You've gained 36k summoning xp in the last month, how much did you test it? :roll:

 

Exactly.

 

 

 

Also busy in real life? Youve been on this post ever since it was created... not to mention long before that considering this all started from an earlier post in help and advice.

 

 

 

Also this isnt your topic, stop saying "just let it die".

[compfreak847]

Three reasons:

 

I only found it recently

 

I'm busy in RL around now, and cannot go on much to train with it

 

I didn't realize so much would come out of one thoughtless post

 

 

 

You've gained 36k summoning xp in the last month, how much did you test it? :roll:

 

The same way as any other way of summoning - Getting the actual XP is the last step, and very predictable. Getting the things to get the XP is the time consuming process. I have around 200k XP banked - like I said, I haven't tested it much. Just forget it, I guess I'll do what everone's recommending and drop it. I'm not lying though, and I have tested it. But it doesn't work with a lot of people, so its not going to be told. I'll be ignoring any further posts and PMs about it.

[green9090]

Three reasons:

 

I only found it recently

 

I'm busy in RL around now, and cannot go on much to train with it

 

I didn't realize so much would come out of one thoughtless post

 

 

 

You've gained 36k summoning xp in the last month, how much did you test it? :roll:

 

The same way as any other way of summoning - Getting the actual XP is the last step, and very predictable. Getting the things to get the XP is the time consuming process. I have around 200k XP banked - like I said, I haven't tested it much. Just forget it, I guess I'll do what everone's recommending and drop it. I'm not lying though, and I have tested it. But it doesn't work with a lot of people, so its not going to be told. I'll be ignoring any further posts and PMs about it.

 

Have you forgotten the part where you run things to the obelisk? Making boil scrolls might be incredible exp until you consider that you can only do maybe 15k of them an hour. That's under 15k exp. And even so, you're not getting enough pouches for that off the GE even for one person, forget five. Add to that the fact that if the price of the scrolls get nerfed you're out a TON of money, and this method just keeps looking worse.

 

 

 

Seriously, there is NOTHING else he could be talking about. There are enough worlds that five people ruining a method could only happen on the GE. The only summoning exp that can be bought from the GE is pouches to scrolls. I'd love to hear any more theories, but until I do I'm considering this closed and compfreak an idiot.

[Jard_Y_Dooku]

Three reasons:

 

I only found it recently

 

I'm busy in RL around now, and cannot go on much to train with it

 

I didn't realize so much would come out of one thoughtless post

 

 

 

You've gained 36k summoning xp in the last month, how much did you test it? :roll:

 

The same way as any other way of summoning - Getting the actual XP is the last step, and very predictable. Getting the things to get the XP is the time consuming process. I have around 200k XP banked - like I said, I haven't tested it much. Just forget it, I guess I'll do what everone's recommending and drop it. I'm not lying though, and I have tested it. But it doesn't work with a lot of people, so its not going to be told. I'll be ignoring any further posts and PMs about it.

 

Have you forgotten the part where you run things to the obelisk? Making boil scrolls might be incredible exp until you consider that you can only do maybe 15k of them an hour. That's under 15k exp. And even so, you're not getting enough pouches for that off the GE even for one person, forget five. Add to that the fact that if the price of the scrolls get nerfed you're out a TON of money, and this method just keeps looking worse.

 

 

 

Seriously, there is NOTHING else he could be talking about. There are enough worlds that five people ruining a method could only happen on the GE. The only summoning exp that can be bought from the GE is pouches to scrolls. I'd love to hear any more theories, but until I do I'm considering this closed and compfreak an idiot.

 

 

 

I quite agree. There is no secret method, compfreak is lying and wants attention. Quite simple. This isn't like the secret Saradomin method I discovered with Soma2035, Madmanpur3 and a couple of my other friends many months ago - using the corners of the room to trap Zilyana for trips of near infinite length with a team, and ten solo kills with little attention paid to the game. I didn't make threads about it and act suspiciously; compfreak is doing the exact opposite which leads any reasonable person to believe this is entirely FAKE and all he wants is attention.