satan and sin, discuss

[Zierro]

I think of it as a superstition. Everyone does good and everyone does bad. So essentially, everyone has a little "satan" in them. Reminds me of those stories about stuff like Pandora's box releasing all of the evils of the world.

[Giordano]

Absolutly there's dark (sin, Satan) and light (God, Christ). The events of the Bible are just symbolizing these things and should not be taken literatly. One thing I hate are aggorant atheists, who reject the entire Bible and other famous religious texts that shaped their moral beliefs. While the Bible never taught you these things, whoever did were taught by the Bible.

 

 

 

Good and evil also; I do not believe there is "good" and "evil", nor is there "right" or "wrong". What's good, or right, for someone is wrong, or evil, for another. Take for example the holocaust; in the eyes of the Nazis, and most of the German population, it was a good thing. It was right.

 

To most of the outside world, it was evil, inhumane... wrong.

 

The prime difference of light and shadow, that most people would agree, is that while following lightly actions you benefit more people than not. The Holocaust made victim of millions (dark), while at the same time if the Nazis just backed off and understood their ignorance, no one would of died. (Light)

 

 

 

Most people don't do "Good" and ride with the Templar Knights defending peasants, nor fight crime in a Batmobile or such; but rather being mutual and understanding other people's needs and rights. To make it fair.

 

One man shouldn't rob a baker's shop, for this only makes one man happy and the other far off worse. If the man worked and bought bread from the baker, both men are happy. While the ex-theif might not be as happy since he did work for the bread, he didn't ruin another man's life.

 

 

 

100% happiness of the man+ 0% happiness of the baker = 100

 

50% happiness of the man+ 100% happiness of the baker = 150

 

 

 

While I hate to break it down to logical, mathamatical terms, it is the only way to show to some of you that being 'good' benefits not just you, but others. And that is all there is to it: Have fun with yourself and let others have fun. Not have all the fun for yourself and let the others rot.

 

 

 

There is a "good" and a "bad", and completly ignoring them using "different opinions" just justify ignorance and hate.

[Perakp]

Absolutly there's dark (sin, Satan) and light (God, Christ). The events of the Bible are just symbolizing these things and should not be taken literatly. One thing I hate are aggorant atheists, who reject the entire Bible and other famous religious texts that shaped their moral beliefs. While the Bible never taught you these things, whoever did were taught by the Bible.

 

 

 

Most people don't do "Good" and ride with the Templar Knights defending peasants, nor fight crime in a Batmobile or such; but rather being mutual and understanding other people's needs and rights. To make it fair.

 

One man shouldn't rob a baker's shop, for this only makes one man happy and the other far off worse. If the man worked and bought bread from the baker, both men are happy. While the ex-theif might not be as happy since he did work for the bread, he didn't ruin another man's life.

 

 

 

100% happiness of the man+ 0% happiness of the baker = 100

 

50% happiness of the man+ 100% happiness of the baker = 150

 

 

 

While I hate to break it down to logical, mathamatical terms, it is the only way to show to some of you that being 'good' benefits not just you, but others. And that is all there is to it: Have fun with yourself and let others have fun. Not have all the fun for yourself and let the others rot.

 

 

 

There is a "good" and a "bad", and completly ignoring them using "different opinions" just justify ignorance and hate.

 

 

 

Or a third scenario, where the man thieves the baker, but the baker is happy because he had helped someone, 100% + 100% = 200%.

 

 

 

OR the thief doesn't really care about the baker, because why should he, and steals anyways. Why is the thief responsible for his actions to the baker, why should he care? It's just life, it happens.

 

 

 

Maybe the thief wouldn't have needed to steal if the baker hadn't put up such a high price for the bread. Maybe the thief would've liked to become a baker too, but couldn't because the baker was there one year earlier. Or would it have been better for the thief not to steal but to starve to death because he couldn't get work, while praying for a god to help him?

 

So who did you say was in the light and who was in the shadow?

[Lateralus]

Utilitarianism, bah.

[Woodcut Lvr]

Well. I said already on the thread for GOD that I'm not a follower of the books.

 

 

 

What's with the God and Devil now? What about other religions which aren't of the book?

[aspokaspofkjsopfkapo]

no such thing as sin or satan, Nuff said

[gongusan]

To be honest, I have yet to find an action that is wrong no matter the context.

 

 

 

 

Pedophilia?

 

45yo man reaching end of fertility and 12yo girl are the two last people on earth.

[Lenticular_J]

Well. I said already on the thread for GOD that I'm not a follower of the books.

 

 

 

What's with the God and Devil now? What about other religions which aren't of the book?

 

Yeah, I don't get it either. I should start a thread about Hinduism.

 

 

 

To be honest, I have yet to find an action that is wrong no matter the context.

 

 

 

 

Pedophilia?

 

45yo man reaching end of fertility and 12yo girl are the two last people on earth.

 

 

 

73-year-old man pays ten thousand dollars to have sex with a baby under six months old. Still right?

[Giordano]

Or a third scenario, where the man thieves the baker, but the baker is happy because he had helped someone, 100% + 100% = 200%.

 

What? :roll: Are you happy when someone steals something from you? Your whole weeks worth of cash?

 

 

 

OR the thief doesn't really care about the baker, because why should he, and steals anyways. Why is the thief responsible for his actions to the baker, why should he care? It's just life, it happens.

 

Er...are you listening to yourself? You just blunty accepted stealing. :| Are you seriously telling me the theif should just go on and rob anything he wants because he can?

 

 

 

Maybe the thief wouldn't have needed to steal if the baker hadn't put up such a high price for the bread.

 

There's a thing called working. Maybe try it out.

 

 

 

Maybe the thief would've liked to become a baker too, but couldn't because the baker was there one year earlier.

 

Tough.

 

 

 

Or would it have been better for the thief not to steal but to starve to death because he couldn't get work, while praying for a god to help him?

 

And now the theif is poor huh? Unless if you read it was stealing food, because I was writing it down as if the theif stole money, not bread. I knew using a baker would cause some confusion in the long-run. However, even if the theif was stealing to survive (if he was for money, I've already addressed that eariler.) he still shouldn't of comited theift. The baker worked for his job whereas the theif would just go up and steal that away from it? The theif has to realise that he is in that spot and must work to get out of it instead of steal. And besides, at that point of stravation I'm sure he would of scrummbled through trashcans or something.

 

 

 

So who did you say was in the light and who was in the shadow?

 

Light = Baker

 

Shadow = Theif

 

 

 

Not going to change this reasonale because of a few "Aww poor folk"ers.

[Da_Latios]

Or a third scenario, where the man thieves the baker, but the baker is happy because he had helped someone, 100% + 100% = 200%.

 

What? :roll: Are you happy when someone steals something from you? Your whole weeks worth of cash?

 

 

 

OR the thief doesn't really care about the baker, because why should he, and steals anyways. Why is the thief responsible for his actions to the baker, why should he care? It's just life, it happens.

 

Er...are you listening to yourself? You just blunty accepted stealing. :| Are you seriously telling me the theif should just go on and rob anything he wants because he can?

 

 

 

Maybe the thief wouldn't have needed to steal if the baker hadn't put up such a high price for the bread.

 

There's a thing called working. Maybe try it out.

 

 

 

Maybe the thief would've liked to become a baker too, but couldn't because the baker was there one year earlier.

 

Tough.

 

 

 

Or would it have been better for the thief not to steal but to starve to death because he couldn't get work, while praying for a god to help him?

 

And now the theif is poor huh? Unless if you read it was stealing food, because I was writing it down as if the theif stole money, not bread. I knew using a baker would cause some confusion in the long-run. However, even if the theif was stealing to survive (if he was for money, I've already addressed that eariler.) he still shouldn't of comited theift. The baker worked for his job whereas the theif would just go up and steal that away from it? The theif has to realise that he is in that spot and must work to get out of it instead of steal. And besides, at that point of stravation I'm sure he would of scrummbled through trashcans or something.

 

 

 

So who did you say was in the light and who was in the shadow?

 

Light = Baker

 

Shadow = Theif

 

 

 

Not going to change this reasonale because of a few "Aww poor folk"ers.

 

The thief probably needed the bread. Why?

 

Well, why do people become thieves? They have been rejected for jobs, abandoned, abused...

 

 

 

They steal because it is the only way to survive. Thief = light.

 

The baker demands payment, which the thief does not have due to his inability to get a job etc. Baker = dark.

 

 

 

No matter what, it balances out.

[wild_goat_14]

Or a third scenario, where the man thieves the baker, but the baker is happy because he had helped someone, 100% + 100% = 200%.

 

What? :roll: Are you happy when someone steals something from you? Your whole weeks worth of cash?

 

 

 

OR the thief doesn't really care about the baker, because why should he, and steals anyways. Why is the thief responsible for his actions to the baker, why should he care? It's just life, it happens.

 

Er...are you listening to yourself? You just blunty accepted stealing. :| Are you seriously telling me the theif should just go on and rob anything he wants because he can?

 

 

 

Maybe the thief wouldn't have needed to steal if the baker hadn't put up such a high price for the bread.

 

There's a thing called working. Maybe try it out.

 

 

 

Maybe the thief would've liked to become a baker too, but couldn't because the baker was there one year earlier.

 

Tough.

 

 

 

Or would it have been better for the thief not to steal but to starve to death because he couldn't get work, while praying for a god to help him?

 

And now the theif is poor huh? Unless if you read it was stealing food, because I was writing it down as if the theif stole money, not bread. I knew using a baker would cause some confusion in the long-run. However, even if the theif was stealing to survive (if he was for money, I've already addressed that eariler.) he still shouldn't of comited theift. The baker worked for his job whereas the theif would just go up and steal that away from it? The theif has to realise that he is in that spot and must work to get out of it instead of steal. And besides, at that point of stravation I'm sure he would of scrummbled through trashcans or something.

 

 

 

So who did you say was in the light and who was in the shadow?

 

Light = Baker

 

Shadow = Theif

 

 

 

Not going to change this reasonale because of a few "Aww poor folk"ers.

 

The thief probably needed the bread. Why?

 

Well, why do people become thieves? They have been rejected for jobs, abandoned, abused...

 

 

 

They steal because it is the only way to survive. Thief = light.

 

The baker demands payment, which the thief does not have due to his inability to get a job etc. Baker = dark.

 

 

 

No matter what, it balances out.

 

 

 

So people work just to give to those that don't? Those people who work are earning that for themselves.

 

 

 

So in other words the baker has lost lots of time/money just because a thief was hungry. Also, the "that's life" argument can work both ways, so don't even try it. -.-

 

 

 

Sin aside, it is obvious who is in the wrong.

[Giordano]

Or a third scenario, where the man thieves the baker, but the baker is happy because he had helped someone, 100% + 100% = 200%.

 

What? :roll: Are you happy when someone steals something from you? Your whole weeks worth of cash?

 

 

 

OR the thief doesn't really care about the baker, because why should he, and steals anyways. Why is the thief responsible for his actions to the baker, why should he care? It's just life, it happens.

 

Er...are you listening to yourself? You just blunty accepted stealing. :| Are you seriously telling me the theif should just go on and rob anything he wants because he can?

 

 

 

Maybe the thief wouldn't have needed to steal if the baker hadn't put up such a high price for the bread.

 

There's a thing called working. Maybe try it out.

 

 

 

Maybe the thief would've liked to become a baker too, but couldn't because the baker was there one year earlier.

 

Tough.

 

 

 

Or would it have been better for the thief not to steal but to starve to death because he couldn't get work, while praying for a god to help him?

 

And now the theif is poor huh? Unless if you read it was stealing food, because I was writing it down as if the theif stole money, not bread. I knew using a baker would cause some confusion in the long-run. However, even if the theif was stealing to survive (if he was for money, I've already addressed that eariler.) he still shouldn't of comited theift. The baker worked for his job whereas the theif would just go up and steal that away from it? The theif has to realise that he is in that spot and must work to get out of it instead of steal. And besides, at that point of stravation I'm sure he would of scrummbled through trashcans or something.

 

 

 

So who did you say was in the light and who was in the shadow?

 

Light = Baker

 

Shadow = Theif

 

 

 

Not going to change this reasonale because of a few "Aww poor folk"ers.

 

The thief probably needed the bread. Why?

 

Well, why do people become thieves? They have been rejected for jobs, abandoned, abused...

 

 

 

They steal because it is the only way to survive. Thief = light.

 

The baker demands payment, which the thief does not have due to his inability to get a job etc. Baker = dark.

 

 

 

No matter what, it balances out.

 

Some theives like to make more money. Remember, I orgrinally typed it out thinking the theif went for the cash and not the bread. I knew this baker thing was going to hit me back, but if we think as a jewelery vendor, then is it still right?

 

 

 

It's still bad for the theif to steal the bread anyway, but if he steals ONE muffin and never comes back then fine, I'll let that slide. Steal the baker's weekly income is what I'm talking about.

[Woodcut Lvr]

Well. I said already on the thread for GOD that I'm not a follower of the books.

 

 

 

What's with the God and Devil now? What about other religions which aren't of the book?

 

Yeah, I don't get it either. I should start a thread about Hinduism.

 

 

 

Do it on Buddhism. It's more fun to discuss. Or Woodcut Lvrism. It's a lot of fun :D

[Da_Latios]

Or a third scenario, where the man thieves the baker, but the baker is happy because he had helped someone, 100% + 100% = 200%.

 

What? :roll: Are you happy when someone steals something from you? Your whole weeks worth of cash?

 

 

 

OR the thief doesn't really care about the baker, because why should he, and steals anyways. Why is the thief responsible for his actions to the baker, why should he care? It's just life, it happens.

 

Er...are you listening to yourself? You just blunty accepted stealing. :| Are you seriously telling me the theif should just go on and rob anything he wants because he can?

 

 

 

Maybe the thief wouldn't have needed to steal if the baker hadn't put up such a high price for the bread.

 

There's a thing called working. Maybe try it out.

 

 

 

Maybe the thief would've liked to become a baker too, but couldn't because the baker was there one year earlier.

 

Tough.

 

 

 

Or would it have been better for the thief not to steal but to starve to death because he couldn't get work, while praying for a god to help him?

 

And now the theif is poor huh? Unless if you read it was stealing food, because I was writing it down as if the theif stole money, not bread. I knew using a baker would cause some confusion in the long-run. However, even if the theif was stealing to survive (if he was for money, I've already addressed that eariler.) he still shouldn't of comited theift. The baker worked for his job whereas the theif would just go up and steal that away from it? The theif has to realise that he is in that spot and must work to get out of it instead of steal. And besides, at that point of stravation I'm sure he would of scrummbled through trashcans or something.

 

 

 

So who did you say was in the light and who was in the shadow?

 

Light = Baker

 

Shadow = Theif

 

 

 

Not going to change this reasonale because of a few "Aww poor folk"ers.

 

The thief probably needed the bread. Why?

 

Well, why do people become thieves? They have been rejected for jobs, abandoned, abused...

 

 

 

They steal because it is the only way to survive. Thief = light.

 

The baker demands payment, which the thief does not have due to his inability to get a job etc. Baker = dark.

 

 

 

No matter what, it balances out.

 

 

 

So people work just to give to those that don't? Those people who work are earning that for themselves.

 

 

 

So in other words the baker has lost lots of time/money just because a thief was hungry. Also, the "that's life" argument can work both ways, so don't even try it. -.-

 

 

 

Sin aside, it is obvious who is in the wrong.

 

You CLEARLY didn't read my post, did you? *shakes head*

[BlueLancer]

Being a thief was actually a real profession before 1800's especially in urban cities, and they had guilds, alliances etc... The purpose wasn't getting rich by stealing, the purpose was staying alive. They'd steal crown property like grain storages, flour.. To feed their families. Hard to say without a source, but probably some of them did steal from private bakers, etc. as well.

 

 

 

Robbery isn't the same thing as stealing.. As such, even in modern western society, robbery obviously brings much worse consequences than stealing. But obviously it has been always illegal, people would lose limbs or be hanged if caught even in old Europe...

 

 

 

Not that many people in western countries steal these days to survive.. But it does exist in slums of many countries. I wouldn't be too quick to judge them even if I was a store owner, if they had absolutely no other chance.

 

 

 

Does material come before human life?

[Perakp]

Or a third scenario, where the man thieves the baker,

 

but the baker is happy because he had helped someone, 100% + 100% =

 

200%.

 

What? :roll: Are you happy when someone steals something from you? Your whole weeks worth of cash?

 

 

Obviously someone needed it, money doesn't bring happiness you know. :mrgreen:

 

 

 

 

OR

 

the thief doesn't really care about the baker, because why should he,

 

and steals anyways. Why is the thief responsible for his actions to the

 

baker, why should he care? It's just life, it happens.

 

Er...are

 

you listening to yourself? You just blunty accepted stealing. :| Are

 

you seriously telling me the theif should just go on and rob anything

 

he wants because he can?

 

 

That is exactly what I'm telling you.

 

YOU just bluntly accept other people telling you how you should live.

 

 

 

Here's a reminder:

 

If there is no satan, no sin, no right and wrong, no

 

good and evil, is there anything we couldn't do? What stops us from

 

doing immoral and/or unethical things to each other and then just

 

suicide or run&hide to escape the consequences.

 

Nothing stops us, it never did.

 

[dragoonson]

^Yeah,so killing people is totally ok.Nothing stops us,and it never will,so in that case,the court can't sentence me to death OR jail.You have any idea what kind of world that would be?Oh you insulted me *stab*.Might as well go to a frikking ghetto.

[Perakp]

^Yeah,so killing people is totally ok.Nothing stops us,and it never will,so in that case,the court can't sentence me to death OR jail.You have any idea what kind of world that would be?Oh you insulted me *stab*.Might as well go to a frikking ghetto.

 

Court is one thing, sinning another. Court doesn't put you to jail if you sin, only if you break the law and they catch you doing it. The system we live in wouldn't work if there was no laws, but after the law, no one cares what you have done.

 

For example, there are many legal ways of doing "bad" things, these can be called loopholes. Is it wrong to (ab)use the system to your own benefit, when no court can sentence you for it?

[Nenga]

^Yeah,so killing people is totally ok.Nothing stops us,and it never will,so in that case,the court can't sentence me to death OR jail.You have any idea what kind of world that would be?Oh you insulted me *stab*.Might as well go to a frikking ghetto.

 

That depends on your morals. I never said killing someone was right or wrong, I just said nothing stops someone from doing it.

[Giordano]

Or a third scenario, where the man thieves the baker,

 

but the baker is happy because he had helped someone, 100% + 100% =

 

200%.

 

What? :roll: Are you happy when someone steals something from you? Your whole weeks worth of cash?

 

 

Obviously someone needed it, money doesn't bring happiness you know. :mrgreen:

 

Oh gee, I don't know. I have never seen a happy homeless person. Saying money doesn't bring happiness is somewhat correct, but money has a large influence in your happiness. So dismissing that whole idea is utter stupdity.

 

 

 

 

OR

 

the thief doesn't really care about the baker, because why should he,

 

and steals anyways. Why is the thief responsible for his actions to the

 

baker, why should he care? It's just life, it happens.

 

Er...are

 

you listening to yourself? You just blunty accepted stealing. :| Are

 

you seriously telling me the theif should just go on and rob anything

 

he wants because he can?

 

 

That is exactly what I'm telling you.

 

YOU just bluntly accept other people telling you how you should live.

 

I listen to other people on how to live? Well, society did last 5000 years by like that, I'll think I'll listen to it now.

 

 

 

 

Here's a reminder:

 

If there is no satan, no sin, no right and wrong, no

 

good and evil, is there anything we couldn't do? What stops us from

 

doing immoral and/or unethical things to each other and then just

 

suicide or run&hide to escape the consequences.

 

Nothing stops us, it never did.

 

 

And that is why it is our responsibility to make order and peace. If we all did how you think, we wouldn't be better than the caveman (techology-wise and social-wise). If we look to satisfy our own greed, everyone will look like an enemy and we'll fight constantly forever.

 

 

 

That IS what you are saying, like it or not. Allowing people to do what they want, eventually the good men who wouldn't steal on normal curcumstances, would see no point on getting constantly picked on and fight back. As soon as everyone looks out for himself, shadow has comsumed the world and humanity will never be as it once was.

 

 

 

But don't worry: You'll probably grow out of this 'rebellion stage' soon enough.

[mrpez]

love the sinner, hate the sin.

[silver_wits]

ok look. While I may sometimes disbelieve that a god or the devil could exist... most times I do. 8-)

 

 

 

but, I don't force people into my religion, and I dont pray to god every single day. and I've stopped thinking about him when I use the toilet :?

 

 

 

And, the reason why I say I believe in both god and the devil, is that whenever I watch scarey movies with evil christian people [about all my knowledge of christian people here] I'm scared cabbage-less. :ohnoes:

 

 

 

When I think logically about it, I believe the devil was probably made up by christian people long ago, based on a fertility god that had horns on his head. I can't be too certain about it though. #-o

 

 

 

Anyways, what I'm more scared of are obeah queens and voodoo masters. :shock: