Catholic Church says Evolutionism is Compatible with Bible.

[Saru Inc]

The Catholic church say the bible agrees with Evolution :o

 

 

 

Who knows what they'll say next to swing some young intelligent agnostics towards them.

 

 

 

 

 

John 1

 

 

 

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.

 

3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

 

 

 

Straight from the book of John. And the bolded section pretty much screws up the evolution-creationism theory. All though, you gotta remember, the Catholic chruch as a whole, (the leadership, not necesarrilly the followers) tends to leave stuff out of the bible then make rules about it.

 

 

 

The church says a lot of things. People say a lot of things too. But life is about what you do and what exists, not what you say.

 

 

 

I can only tell you what I've experienced. People say a lot of bad things about the church. This year, my vacation was in Italy. I've seen Rome, and the vatican. You know, when you're there, walking in the streets of the vatican and visting St. Peter's Basilica, there's nothing evil about that place. In shops, they sell peace crosses, you can only get those in the vatican. You can buy some postcards and send them from the vatican, through their mail system. When you walk in the streets, there's a lot of italian ice cream stands. You know, small things. There's a lot of tourists, but everyone just calmy walks about, not the kind of crazy behaviour you'd think from a crowd that big. I used to imagine myself the vatican like some close-up place where a bunch of monks were plotting how they could enslave the mind of humanity. It's not like that at all when you go there for real.

 

 

 

Italy is a christian country, 90% christian. But you have to understand italians interpret christianity very differently than americans do. For them, it's embedded into their culture itself. They wear crosses, they pray, family is very important to them. The male is very important in the culture, but they see themselves are protectors of women, not dominators or dictators. Christianity is not fair towards women, it's not, but you have to understand they mean it in a different way that what you could imagine. It's not: I'm a man, therefore I'm superior to you, so I get to do what I want. It's not the way they see things. It's in the lines of: As a man, I believe my role is to protect and provide for my family, and the women are the ones I protect. It's very macho. Their male pride rests on the fact that that is their duty. American men tend to believe that to be "macho" they have to become completely desensitized to their feelings. Italians don't do that at all. They're tough on the outside, but soft on the inside, pretty much. And they do give roses, write poems, hold doors, do long walks on the beach, and all these romantic gestures for a woman. Just like in movies, old fashioned romance lives in Italy.

 

 

 

Revolutions came to italy aswell. Women are no longer confined to kitchens, and taking care of kids. They can do whatever they want.

 

 

 

You're not going to meet any modern italian that's going to bring out a bible and tell you that because X or Y verse says this or that, that's the "truth". From what they've told me, most italians understand fully well that what the bible says is outdated, and can't be applied to this modern world. They are attached to their old fashioned values. They're not fanatics ready to believe everything the bible says.

 

 

 

Of course, that's my opinion, but that's what I've honestly understand from my trip to Italy. I thought some of you would be interested to know what christianity is like in its country of origin. Italy is where christianity is born after all, where all of this has started from.

 

 

 

Christinity sounds awful in america. All the crazy things we hear about it. I think that in many ways more than one, america has perversed christianity and twisted into a complete different religion than what it was at the beginning. America takes the bible and takes it all for cash - even if a lot of it makes no sense whatsoever. God didn't write the bible, men did. Italians understand this, why can't americans?

 

 

 

Here's why I think people think Christians are judgemental fanatics (and some people are)

 

 

 

14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

 

 

 

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. (and yea, I serched it in this online bible, lol so much easier XD)

 

 

 

This shows, why most Christians are wrong, the avergae Christian condemns gays, criminals, and the like, but what Jesus is saying is that we're not here to boss them around, but show them the way to God, it's God's part to show them who he is. And so most Christians, the "american" ones as you've said above, aren't really good Christians at all. A good Christian is tolerant of gays and criminals, it doesn't mean he needs to approve of it, it just means he shouldn't throw bibles at them and preach to them. God nkows not everyone is going to Heaven, and Christian don't realize that, and make it their personal mission to make everyone they've ever talked to become a Christian. And so their zealous actually turns people away from Christ.

 

 

 

And uhhh.... That paragraph kinda got off-topic lol. But what else is the Off-Topic forum about then for going off-topic? XD

 

 

 

Edit: And yea, we went over this in Church last week, we talked about Men being superior over Women, and it really is in Italy how it should be, Men are the leaders because, let's face it, they're physcially stronger (I hope) and they're meant to protect the woman. But the verse that says that, most people take out of context, because the verse before it says that they give one another to each other.

[Lenticular_J]

[tastywords]

 

I love seeing foreigners practice religion. It's awesome.

 

 

 

Christinity sounds awful in america. All the crazy things we hear about it. I think that in many ways more than one, america has perversed christianity and twisted into a complete different religion than what it was at the beginning. America takes the bible and takes it all for cash - even if a lot of it makes no sense whatsoever. God didn't write the bible, men did. Italians understand this, why can't americans?

 

Most people that should be calling themselves Christian do understand that. It's the fair sprinkling of crazies that give us all a bad name, in every religion or nonreligion. It's not as bad as it sounds. A lot of the people here in Off-Topic make big deals over little things. I'm certain you've noticed.

[monkeyboo2]

Wow, the majority of the posts about how evolution is almost fact are so naive. If you actually did research you would realize that evolution is a mathematical Impossibility. Also if you hadn't realized spontaneous generation is also impossible. No theories are given such leniency from scrutiny other than evolution because our atheistic world wants so badly to believe that their is no God, and no morals

 

 

 

To the people saying that these two things are compatible are absolutely wrong.

 

First from a theological standpoint, Before sin there was no death. If there was evolution happening for "65 million years" there would have to have been death.

 

 

 

Second from a logical standpoint : Why would God that had the ability to create a world to "evolve" not simply create a fully functioning world?

 

 

 

All you saying that you are glad that the church finally "believes in science" don't believe in the Bible. You don't think that God even set the world up to evolve. So I don't see why you would embrace the church now for their acceptance of evolution.

 

 

 

Now Spontaneous Generation is a perfect example of how religion can embrace science. I'm glad you mentioned it.

 

 

 

Back in the 1850's or thereabouts the Church endorsed the Spontaneous Generation theory. Louis Pasteur and numerous other scientists worked on proving the Germ theory (Disease is spread by microscopic Germs). It was eventually fully accepted by the Church in about 1890, who were way behind the rest of the society.

 

Think about where we'd be without the Church accepting that theory; no hygiene, less cures for disease for everybody who does not believe in the Germ Theory.

 

 

 

And i repeat again. Atheism is not a belief that there is no God. It is the lack of belief in any God.

 

And since when has this been an 'Atheistic World' - its a far too theistic world for my liking.

 

 

 

And since when have Atheists had no morals (or wanted to have a moral less world)? That is completely unfounded. All humans have equal morals- believing or not believing in the guy in the sky does not change that.

[Saru Inc]

Wow, the majority of the posts about how evolution is almost fact are so naive. If you actually did research you would realize that evolution is a mathematical Impossibility. Also if you hadn't realized spontaneous generation is also impossible. No theories are given such leniency from scrutiny other than evolution because our atheistic world wants so badly to believe that their is no God, and no morals

 

 

 

To the people saying that these two things are compatible are absolutely wrong.

 

First from a theological standpoint, Before sin there was no death. If there was evolution happening for "65 million years" there would have to have been death.

 

 

 

Second from a logical standpoint : Why would God that had the ability to create a world to "evolve" not simply create a fully functioning world?

 

 

 

All you saying that you are glad that the church finally "believes in science" don't believe in the Bible. You don't think that God even set the world up to evolve. So I don't see why you would embrace the church now for their acceptance of evolution.

 

 

 

Now Spontaneous Generation is a perfect example of how religion can embrace science. I'm glad you mentioned it.

 

 

 

Back in the 1850's or thereabouts the Church endorsed the Spontaneous Generation theory. Louis Pasteur and numerous other scientists worked on proving the Germ theory (Disease is spread by microscopic Germs). It was eventually fully accepted by the Church in about 1890, who were way behind the rest of the society.

 

Think about where we'd be without the Church accepting that theory; no hygiene, less cures for disease for everybody who does not believe in the Germ Theory.

 

 

 

And i repeat again. Atheism is not a belief that there is no God. It is the lack of belief in any God.

 

And since when has this been an 'Atheistic World' - its a far too theistic world for my liking.

 

 

 

And since when have Atheists had no morals (or wanted to have a moral less world)? That is completely unfounded. All humans have equal morals- believing or not believing in the guy in the sky does not change that.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, here's the thing, the Church can, and have embraced science before, as stated above, and numerous other things; like the world is around, and how we revolve aroundthe world. The Church accepted that, because the Bible didn't say anything against it.

 

And you're also quite right, Atheist do have morals, infact, some of my atheistic friends at school are generally nicer people then the Christians at my church. But also, we do live in an Antheist world, generally.

[Lenticular_J]

Nah, it's just more common for atheists to make hullabaloo here in the west. Because they won't be throat-slit.

 

 

 

Maybe that practice should be started again.

[RichieMcD]

Nah, it's just more common for atheists to make hullabaloo here in the west. Because they won't be throat-slit.

 

 

 

Maybe that practice should be started again.

 

 

 

So because I choose to put my belief in the findings of science rather than the never ending contradictions and far fetched stories of Catholicism I shall be murdered for it? Genocide, nice :|

[Lenticular_J]

Sorry my sarcasm was too original.

 

 

 

EDIT: Nah, don't need the quote.

[warren211]

Nah, it's just more common for atheists to make hullabaloo here in the west. Because they won't be throat-slit.

 

 

 

Maybe that practice should be started again.

 

 

 

So because I choose to put my belief in the findings of science rather than the never ending contradictions and far fetched stories of Catholicism I shall be murdered for it? Genocide, nice :|

 

 

 

Ugh, another statement based more on bias than fact. Sure, the Church has neglected the teachings of science in the past. Well, once it was proved, we accepted it. Something wrong there? The Catholic church will NEVER permanently and blatantly deny the teachings of science. If it's proven, who are we to deny it? Catholics are not idiots. If one scientist claims something that says that hundreds of thousands of people are wrong (like the earth revolving around the sun) of course he will be met with skepticism and criticism. But once it's proven, why would we be stupid enough to deny it? Before you make blatant accusations of self-contradiction and denial of science, elaborate a bit, will you?

[Barihawk]

Ignoring all the seemless arguing...

 

 

 

Thanks Bluelancer for your kind words. Just as debates about science or math are best done when the people doing the arguing know what they are talking about, arguments about religion are best done when people have actually read the Bible, Quran, or Torah at least once through. However, that's not going to happen here so I am off to my exile from religious topics just like you are.

[RichieMcD]

Nah, it's just more common for atheists to make hullabaloo here in the west. Because they won't be throat-slit.

 

 

 

Maybe that practice should be started again.

 

 

 

So because I choose to put my belief in the findings of science rather than the never ending contradictions and far fetched stories of Catholicism I shall be murdered for it? Genocide, nice :|

 

 

 

Ugh, another statement based more on bias than fact. Sure, the Church has neglected the teachings of science in the past. Well, once it was proved, we accepted it. Something wrong there? The Catholic church will NEVER permanently and blatantly deny the teachings of science. If it's proven, who are we to deny it? Catholics are not idiots. If one scientist claims something that says that hundreds of thousands of people are wrong (like the earth revolving around the sun) of course he will be met with skepticism and criticism. But once it's proven, why would we be stupid enough to deny it? Before you make blatant accusations of self-contradiction and denial of science, elaborate a bit, will you?

 

 

 

Elaborate on what? The above 2 posts you quoted have barely any relation to what you posted. By contradictions I didn't mean denying something one time and accepting it years on, I'm talking about the obvious and blatant contradictions in the bible and preachings of many churches. Before you make claims of bias or ignorance I was brought up in a catholic family, I attended church every Sunday till I decided it was a bunch of claims with very little to back it up. I'm not just making up [cabbage] assumptions and bashing the church.

[Lateralus]

Ignoring all the seemless arguing...

 

 

 

Thanks Bluelancer for your kind words. Just as debates about science or math are best done when the people doing the arguing know what they are talking about, arguments about religion are best done when people have actually read the Bible, Quran, or Torah at least once through. However, that's not going to happen here so I am off to my exile from religious topics just like you are.

 

 

 

I don't know if there's any need to exile yourself. I've enjoyed our back and forths in religious threads when they've happened. It seems a shame that you'd exclude yourself when you're one of the people I look forward to reading from.

[Barihawk]

Because likewise there are very few people I can have discussions with, like you and Bluelancer, Warrior, etc. Most people just rush in the topic and bash, or start reading off the standard list of "terrible Bible quotes" from certain anti-Christian websites without any real views of their own.

 

 

 

Religious topics basically just turn into 90 page threads of nothing.

[Magnetto14]

I am a Christian, and for the longest time I have had a huge problem with the Catholic church. Im not going to bash, but going by what the Bible says, we are supposed to worship and praise God and Him only, thats why the Hail Mary's and Saint praisng is a problem with me. And the fact that a preist is needed to have our sins forgiven even after the crucifiction of Christ gave us a chance to communicate with God. Therefor no need for the middleman.

 

 

 

And as far as us being created in His image, I highly doubt its a pyshical thing, more of thinking, loving beings that have the desire to love and be loved.

 

 

 

And if God created the world to just run the way He wanted instead of the way He planned, everyone that accepts Him would be forced to, and thats not Love.

[Blingkachi50]

I'd thought that it'd been accepted for awhile? Glad to see that it's official now.

[Saru Inc]

I am a Christian, and for the longest time I have had a huge problem with the Catholic church. Im not going to bash, but going by what the Bible says, we are supposed to worship and praise God and Him only, thats why the Hail Mary's and Saint praisng is a problem with me. And the fact that a preist is needed to have our sins forgiven even after the crucifiction of Christ gave us a chance to communicate with God. Therefor no need for the middleman.

 

 

 

And as far as us being created in His image, I highly doubt its a pyshical thing, more of thinking, loving beings that have the desire to love and be loved.

 

 

 

And if God created the world to just run the way He wanted instead of the way He planned, everyone that accepts Him would be forced to, and thats not Love.

 

 

 

 

 

Yea, God's greatest gift (at least, most Christians believe) after the gift of life, was the gift of choice. God could have made us all penecostal\cahtolic\baptist\anglican whatever Christians, all six billion of us, and we all would worship him, but to be honest, I can't understand why he didn't do it that way, but no humas can comprehend all of God, as stated in the Bible, thought I can't remember the voice, "It's God's glory to conceal things, and Man's glory to discover them." Maybe we'll find out why God didn't do it that way. But at the moment, I agree with Magnetto, in that it's simply love.

 

 

 

 

 

And as for confessions, Magnetto, God won't hate you if you switch sects I guess you could call them. My mom used to be Catholic, and my dad was Methodist, when they married they become Presbyterian, now we're Penecostal. So, really, research all of the possible solutions, and go to different churches, sit in the back if you want, and try it out, and whatever you feel like you should go to, go.

[Lenticular_J]

Because likewise there are very few people I can have discussions with, like you and Bluelancer, Warrior, etc. Most people just rush in the topic and bash, or start reading off the standard list of "terrible Bible quotes" from certain anti-Christian websites without any real views of their own.

 

 

 

Religious topics basically just turn into 90 page threads of nothing.

 

But it can be a fun 90 pages of nothing, if the right people come :

[sup3rpur]

its very possible

 

 

 

dont put god in a box :)

[sup3rpur]

I am a Christian, and for the longest time I have had a huge problem with the Catholic church. Im not going to bash, but going by what the Bible says, we are supposed to worship and praise God and Him only, thats why the Hail Mary's and Saint praisng is a problem with me. And the fact that a preist is needed to have our sins forgiven even after the crucifiction of Christ gave us a chance to communicate with God. Therefor no need for the middleman.

 

 

 

And as far as us being created in His image, I highly doubt its a pyshical thing, more of thinking, loving beings that have the desire to love and be loved.

 

 

 

And if God created the world to just run the way He wanted instead of the way He planned, everyone that accepts Him would be forced to, and thats not Love.

 

 

 

mind you, catholics believe the pope has power over man, and since man wrote the bible, the pope has power to overrule the bible. therefore they dont have to obey the bible, they are special.

 

 

 

:pray:

[ember3579]

I am a Christian, and for the longest time I have had a huge problem with the Catholic church. Im not going to bash, but going by what the Bible says, we are supposed to worship and praise God and Him only, thats why the Hail Mary's and Saint praisng is a problem with me. And the fact that a preist is needed to have our sins forgiven even after the crucifiction of Christ gave us a chance to communicate with God. Therefor no need for the middleman.

 

 

 

And as far as us being created in His image, I highly doubt its a pyshical thing, more of thinking, loving beings that have the desire to love and be loved.

 

 

 

And if God created the world to just run the way He wanted instead of the way He planned, everyone that accepts Him would be forced to, and thats not Love.

 

 

 

mind you, catholics believe the pope has power over man, and since man wrote the bible, the pope has power to overrule the bible. therefore they dont have to obey the bible, they are special.

 

 

 

:pray:

 

 

 

 

 

... -.- Dude, think about what you just said. After doing so, and if you find nothing wrong with your statement, permanently remove yourself from these discussions. Thank you.

 

 

 

As far as the whole Catholic v. Baptist v. Etc. thing, I prefer to follow one of the less-spouted verses in the bible. I'm thinking it's in one of the first 4 books of the New Testament, because I'm fairly certain it was said by Jesus himself. Basically, the many, many different subsections of Christianity don't really exist in Heaven. There's only Christianity. I like to act under the basis that if that's how it's done when people go, then why not try it, or at least make sure there's no infighting over people being in different groups? I think it's a valid argument.

[warren211]

I am a Christian, and for the longest time I have had a huge problem with the Catholic church. Im not going to bash, but going by what the Bible says, we are supposed to worship and praise God and Him only, thats why the Hail Mary's and Saint praisng is a problem with me. And the fact that a preist is needed to have our sins forgiven even after the crucifiction of Christ gave us a chance to communicate with God. Therefor no need for the middleman.

 

 

 

And as far as us being created in His image, I highly doubt its a pyshical thing, more of thinking, loving beings that have the desire to love and be loved.

 

 

 

And if God created the world to just run the way He wanted instead of the way He planned, everyone that accepts Him would be forced to, and thats not Love.

 

 

 

mind you, catholics believe the pope has power over man, and since man wrote the bible, the pope has power to overrule the bible. therefore they dont have to obey the bible, they are special.

 

 

 

:pray:

 

 

 

First, the whole worshipping saints thing. There's a difference between admiring them as role models for how to live our lives and flat our worshipping. We worship God, that's it. We admire the saints, pray to them for assistance, and use their lives as models as how we should act to be good Christians. God said we shall not let anyone come before him, and we know that a saint can never replace God. By praying to saints, we ask for help and guidance nothing more. We do a lot more than this for God.

 

 

 

Second, the "pope has power". Scripture says the pope is the final word if the Bible doesn't tell us the right way. The Matthew's gospel tells a lot about this.

 

 

 

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

 

Jesus is speaking to Peter (the first pope) in this verse. Basically, he's saying whatever rules the pope makes is the rules. End of story. No one said we don't have to obey the Bible, the pope's job is partly to enforce the Bible. It's why the Vatican has the power to just say we agree with evolution. The Bible never said anything about that. Does this mean evolution cannot exist? Of course not, unless you're a fundamentalist. The pope can be compared to the elastic clause in the American constitution. If the Bible/constitution is unclear as what to do for a certain situation (new situations pop up by the century) then the pope/congress can create a law necessary to restore order.

[Saru Inc]

[hide=Quote]

I am a Christian, and for the longest time I have had a huge problem with the Catholic church. Im not going to bash, but going by what the Bible says, we are supposed to worship and praise God and Him only, thats why the Hail Mary's and Saint praisng is a problem with me. And the fact that a preist is needed to have our sins forgiven even after the crucifiction of Christ gave us a chance to communicate with God. Therefor no need for the middleman.

 

 

 

And as far as us being created in His image, I highly doubt its a pyshical thing, more of thinking, loving beings that have the desire to love and be loved.

 

 

 

And if God created the world to just run the way He wanted instead of the way He planned, everyone that accepts Him would be forced to, and thats not Love.

 

 

 

mind you, catholics believe the pope has power over man, and since man wrote the bible, the pope has power to overrule the bible. therefore they dont have to obey the bible, they are special.

 

 

 

:pray:

 

 

 

First, the whole worshipping saints thing. There's a difference between admiring them as role models for how to live our lives and flat our worshipping. We worship God, that's it. We admire the saints, pray to them for assistance, and use their lives as models as how we should act to be good Christians. God said we shall not let anyone come before him, and we know that a saint can never replace God. By praying to saints, we ask for help and guidance nothing more. We do a lot more than this for God.

 

 

 

Second, the "pope has power". Scripture says the pope is the final word if the Bible doesn't tell us the right way. The Matthew's gospel tells a lot about this.

 

 

 

I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

 

Jesus is speaking to Peter (the first pope) in this verse. Basically, he's saying whatever rules the pope makes is the rules. End of story. No one said we don't have to obey the Bible, the pope's job is partly to enforce the Bible. It's why the Vatican has the power to just say we agree with evolution. The Bible never said anything about that. Does this mean evolution cannot exist? Of course not, unless you're a fundamentalist. The pope can be compared to the elastic clause in the American constitution. If the Bible/constitution is unclear as what to do for a certain situation (new situations pop up by the century) then the pope/congress can create a law necessary to restore order.

[/hide]

 

Not really.. The Bible is the finaly say-so really. Which is why many people disagree with Catholics, because we think, the Pope should not exist, because God came down to us. And we don't need anything to bridge Earth to Heaven, Jesus did that when he died. So the Pope is not needed anymore. Thats just my 2 cents.

[Wizz]

Ironically, Evolution was first suggested by The Church. >.>

[Saru Inc]

Ironically, Evolution was first suggested by The Church. >.>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In what way?