Catholic Church says Evolutionism is Compatible with Bible.

[Latinoking]

This is interesting....

 

 

 

By Philip Pullella

 

updated 8:21 p.m. ET, Tues., Sept. 16, 2008

 

 

 

VATICAN CITY - The Vatican said on Tuesday the theory of evolution was compatible with the Bible but planned no posthumous apology to Charles Darwin for the cold reception it gave him 150 years ago.

 

 

 

Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, the Vatican's culture minister, was speaking at the announcement of a Rome conference of scientists, theologians and philosophers to be held next March marking the 150th anniversary of the publication of Darwin's "The Origin of Species."

 

 

 

Christian churches were long hostile to Darwin because his theory conflicted with the literal biblical account of creation.

 

 

 

Earlier this week, a leading Anglican churchman, Rev. Malcolm Brown, said the Church of England owed Darwin an apology for the way his ideas were received by Anglicans in Britain.

 

 

 

Pope Pius XII described evolution as a valid scientific approach to the development of humans in 1950 and Pope John Paul reiterated that in 1996. But Ravasi said the Vatican had no intention of apologizing for earlier negative views.

 

 

 

"Maybe we should abandon the idea of issuing apologies as if history was a court eternally in session," he said, adding that Darwin's theories were "never condemned by the Catholic Church nor was his book ever banned."

 

 

 

Creationism is the belief that God created the world in six days as described in the Bible. The Catholic Church does not read the Genesis account of creation literally, saying it is an allegory for the way God created the world.

 

 

 

Some other Christians, mostly conservative Protestants in the United States, read Genesis literally and object to evolution being taught in biology class in public high schools.

 

 

 

Sarah Palin, the Republican candidate for the U.S. vice presidency, said in 2006 that she supported teaching both creationism and evolution in schools but has subsequently said creationism does not have to be part of curriculum.

 

 

 

The Catholic Church teaches "theistic evolution," a stand that accepts evolution as a scientific theory and sees no reason why God could not have used a natural evolutionary process in the forming of the human species.

 

 

 

It objects to using evolution as the basis for an atheist philosophy that denies God's existence or any divine role in creation. It also objects to using Genesis as a scientific text.

 

 

 

As Ravasi put it, creationism belongs to the "strictly theological sphere" and could not be used "ideologically in science."

 

 

 

Professor Philip Sloan of Notre Dame University, which is jointly holding next year's conference with Rome's Pontifical Gregorian University, said the gathering would be an important contribution to explaining the Catholic stand on evolution.

 

 

 

"In the United States, and now elsewhere, we have an ongoing public debate over evolution that has social, political and religious dimensions," he said.

 

 

 

"Most of this debate has been taking place without a strong Catholic theological presence, and the discussion has suffered accordingly," he said.

 

 

 

Pope Benedict discussed these issues with his former doctoral students at their annual meeting in 2006. In a speech in Paris last week, he spoke out against biblical literalism.

 

 

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26747166/

[mrpez]

im glad to see the catholic church, one of my long-time subjects of criticism, is accepting evolution.

 

 

 

another 150 years and we might just be on our way to a secular world.

[Cup Lion]

That is quite interesting.

 

 

 

I've thought about the two, and I, though being Catholic, accepted both. Neat how the Church does the same now, too. It makes perfect sense to me, evolution.

[Nadril]

Haven't they pretty much accepted it for a while now? Either way I never got why people thought that Evolution and Religion couldn't co-exist. If God is such an Omni-potent and powerful being as Christian's describe him (it?) than God would have no problem just "jump starting" the evolutionary chain.

 

 

 

 

 

[cabbage], technically God could have just jump started the world and set it so that it would turn out the way he wanted it. Either way I do hope more Christians start getting it through their heads about Evolution.

[Ezz]

Haha, they always seem to accept things and apologize a few hundred years later, just like with Isaac Newton if I remember correctly :lol:

[Sumpta]

I'm not so very amazed to read this.

 

 

 

The catholic church has invested a lot during the centuries to give and promote education and to sustain scientific research. Some of the best universities in Europe are catholic universities that have been around for hundreds of years. No matter if we like it or not, the church has played an indispensable in our quest for and gain of knowledge from before the medieval times.

[Ginger_Warrior]

There have been Catholic groups going for centuries that have tried to explain Evolution through the Bible. Many of them accept Evolution exists. Not all Christians are like Sarah Palin, you know.

 

 

 

This really is not news to me.

[Saru Inc]

What's that supposed to mean GW. :(

 

 

 

Wow, this just goes to show the whole Catholic church is a crock, not only are they all pedos, but atheists now too. :?

 

 

 

I mean, any Christian knows it's not "compatible," which goes to show if the whole section of Catholicism is Christian or not.

[warri0r45]

What's that supposed to mean GW. :(

 

 

 

Wow, this just goes to show the whole Catholic church is a crock, not only are they all pedos, but atheists now too. :?

 

 

 

I mean, any Christian knows it's not "compatible," which goes to show if the whole section of Catholicism is Christian or not.

 

 

 

Are you serious? Catholics aren't atheists because they accept evolution, they're still Christians. Just because they may see things differently to you on this issue doesn't mean that they don't believe in JC. Added, evolution has nothing to do with atheism at all.

 

 

 

I agree with Ginger; this isn't really news. They've been pretty accepting of evolution for a while now.

[demonfirzen]

What's that supposed to mean GW. :(

 

 

 

Wow, this just goes to show the whole Catholic church is a crock, not only are they all pedos, but atheists now too. :?

 

 

 

I mean, any Christian knows it's not "compatible," which goes to show if the whole section of Catholicism is Christian or not.

 

Ya know, I think you'll fit right in here.

 

The Catholic church has been accepting evolution for a few years now I think, great to finally see them catching up with society.

[warren211]

Old news is old.

 

 

 

 

 

Any practicing Catholic would know evolution can and has already been accepted as a part of creation. The only Christians who think otherwise are fundamentalists, and their beliefs basically deny everything science has taught. Creation was described in Genesis. If I'm not mistaken, the author is unknown, but it is known that he used a lot of symbolism. We shouldn't take the creation account as word for word. The 6 day work and 1 day rest work schedule God has in Genesis is based off Israeli work schedules. They too worked 6 days and rested the 7th. So no one said a Genesis "day" had to be 24 hours. The first day could have been 20 seconds, while the day when humans and animals were created could have been 65 million years, such that evolution could have easily taken place in that "day".

 

 

 

And Saruman, you need to understand the Bible more before you start saying a 2000 year old church is false. Maybe you're a fundamentalist in which case sure, you think it's wrong. But you can't go saying Catholic church isn't Christian. No one said just because evolution is accepted that means creationism is wrong. I still believe in Creation. I'm glad that least now everyone can accept the Catholic Church isn't blinding it's followers from the science of evolution.

[Lenticular_J]

Haven't they pretty much accepted it for a while now? Either way I never got why people thought that Evolution and Religion couldn't co-exist. If God is such an Omni-potent and powerful being as Christian's describe him (it?) than God would have no problem just "jump starting" the evolutionary chain.

 

 

 

 

 

[cabbage], technically God could have just jump started the world and set it so that it would turn out the way he wanted it. Either way I do hope more Christians start getting it through their heads about Evolution.

 

Exactly what most Christians believe.

 

 

 

The Catholic church has been accepting evolution for a few years now I think, great to finally see them catching up with society.

 

More like "great to finally see society catching up with the Catholic church." >_>

 

 

 

What's that supposed to mean GW. :(

 

 

 

Wow, this just goes to show the whole Catholic church is a crock, not only are they all pedos, but atheists now too. :?

 

 

 

I mean, any Christian knows it's not "compatible," which goes to show if the whole section of Catholicism is Christian or not.

 

I really, really, REALLY hope you aren't even being somewhat serious.

[deloriagod]

 

I really, really, REALLY hope you aren't even being somewhat serious.

 

 

 

This is the internet. It's all serious business here. I think he was serious..

[NoMoreDead]

To me, it seems like even though evolution goes against pretty much everything the bible says about the creation of man and the earth, the church is accepting it because they have no other choice but to look foolish. It comes as no surprise to me that they would publically state that they accept evolution. The church always seems to circumvent anything which goes against the bibles teachings by simply saying "God made it that way."

 

 

 

I think that no matter what, you cannot argue with that stubborn point of view.

[Dizzle229]

Good to see, this was the one view the Vatican had that I didn't accept.

 

 

 

Btw, why did the Church used to shun the idea of evolution when it was more or less proven?

[Saru Inc]

Old news is old.

 

 

 

 

 

Any practicing Catholic would know evolution can and has already been accepted as a part of creation. The only Christians who think otherwise are fundamentalists, and their beliefs basically deny everything science has taught. Creation was described in Genesis. If I'm not mistaken, the author is unknown, but it is known that he used a lot of symbolism. We shouldn't take the creation account as word for word. The 6 day work and 1 day rest work schedule God has in Genesis is based off Israeli work schedules. They too worked 6 days and rested the 7th. So no one said a Genesis "day" had to be 24 hours. The first day could have been 20 seconds, while the day when humans and animals were created could have been 65 million years, such that evolution could have easily taken place in that "day".

 

 

 

And Saruman, you need to understand the Bible more before you start saying a 2000 year old church is false. Maybe you're a fundamentalist in which case sure, you think it's wrong. But you can't go saying Catholic church isn't Christian. No one said just because evolution is accepted that means creationism is wrong. I still believe in Creation. I'm glad that least now everyone can accept the Catholic Church isn't blinding it's followers from the science of evolution.

 

 

 

 

 

That's funny, cause I can name a lot of important scientists who were devout Christians... Say Newton for one.

 

 

 

And no, the Israeli work schedule is based off of the Bible. And also, it was 7 days, 24 hours, if it was 65 million years it wouldn't have been a miracle.

 

 

 

And no, I'm not a fundamentalist, I've just always always been against the Catholic church, I have tons of Catholic friends, but Catholicism as a whole I can't stand.

 

 

 

 

 

That's wierd, cause I thought evolution was a theory >.<

 

 

 

 

 

And yes I know who you can be a "Christian" according to world views, but the bible says nothing about evolution. And the author, was God btw.

 

 

 

And finally, just so you know, the Church (this will shock a lot of the Atheists here but..) does not want to be part of the world.You'd have to be a Christian to understand, but we believe that we were not meant for this world (I'm not saying we're elite, anyone who becomes a Christian is not meant for this world, but for the one above)

 

 

 

And Dizzle, it's not proven. Neither is the big bang, fyi.

[britonlongbow]

Wow, the majority of the posts about how evolution is almost fact are so naive. If you actually did research you would realize that evolution is a mathematical Impossibility. Also if you hadn't realized spontaneous generation is also impossible. No theories are given such leniency from scrutiny other than evolution because our atheistic world wants so badly to believe that their is no God, and no morals

 

 

 

To the people saying that these two things are compatible are absolutely wrong.

 

First from a theological standpoint, Before sin there was no death. If there was evolution happening for "65 million years" there would have to have been death.

 

 

 

Second from a logical standpoint : Why would God that had the ability to create a world to "evolve" not simply create a fully functioning world?

 

 

 

All you saying that you are glad that the church finally "believes in science" don't believe in the Bible. You don't think that God even set the world up to evolve. So I don't see why you would embrace the church now for their acceptance of evolution.

[hellbellz]

Wow, the majority of the posts about how evolution is almost fact are so naive. If you actually did research you would realize that evolution is a mathematical Impossibility.

 

You don't have to research [cabbage] to realize there is no God.

[gonpost]

Wow, the majority of the posts about how evolution is almost fact are so naive. If you actually did research you would realize that evolution is a mathematical Impossibility. Also if you hadn't realized spontaneous generation is also impossible. No theories are given such leniency from scrutiny other than evolution because our atheistic world wants so badly to believe that their is no God, and no morals

 

 

 

Spontaneous generation is basically impossible. No one disputes that. That is not evolution.

 

 

 

No one wants to believe that there are no morals. A set moral code is easier for EVERYONE. People just want the truth, and some people don't find there to be enough in God for them to accept it. There is no innate moral depravity that atheists possess.

 

 

 

 

To the people saying that these two things are compatible are absolutely wrong.

 

First from a theological standpoint, Before sin there was no death. If there was evolution happening for "65 million years" there would have to have been death.

 

 

 

Animals have no souls, according to the bible. Ergo they cannot sin, and so a world before mankind could have been possible in which animals consumed one another, etc.

 

 

 

 

Second from a logical standpoint : Why would God that had the ability to create a world to "evolve" not simply create a fully functioning world?

 

 

 

 

No clue. Maybe it's part of his plan. Why didn't he make a world that functions a hell of a lot better than this one?

 

 

 

 

All you saying that you are glad that the church finally "believes in science" don't believe in the Bible. You don't think that God even set the world up to evolve. So I don't see why you would embrace the church now for their acceptance of evolution.

 

 

 

No, it's just that the church finally came to see that the two are, indeed, compatible. This isn't that new for the church anyway. If anyone, such an institution accepting evolution (at least partially) should tell you that there is some validity to the theory.

 

 

 

Oh, and gravity is a theory. (this is more directed to that sam guy above you).

[NoMoreDead]

Wow, the majority of the posts about how evolution is almost fact are so naive. If you actually did research you would realize that evolution is a mathematical Impossibility. Also if you hadn't realized spontaneous generation is also impossible. No theories are given such leniency from scrutiny other than evolution because our atheistic world wants so badly to believe that their is no God, and no morals

 

 

 

To the people saying that these two things are compatible are absolutely wrong.

 

First from a theological standpoint, Before sin there was no death. If there was evolution happening for "65 million years" there would have to have been death.

 

 

 

Second from a logical standpoint : Why would God that had the ability to create a world to "evolve" not simply create a fully functioning world?

 

 

 

All you saying that you are glad that the church finally "believes in science" don't believe in the Bible. You don't think that God even set the world up to evolve. So I don't see why you would embrace the church now for their acceptance of evolution.

 

 

 

Two things:

 

 

 

1. Why do you insist on coming off as the most arrogant, idiotic, and frustratingly moronic person you can be? Evolution is NOT a "Mathmatical impossibility." Tell you what. If you can manage to disprove evolution right here on this message board, you can expect a Nobel Prize for over turning the most comprehensive explanation for the diversity of life in the world.

 

 

 

2. If you honestly believe that God set the world up to evolve, consider this: According to the church, God created man in his own image. If we evolved, what is God? Is God a form of micro-bacteria, or some form of trasitive species? Is he human, or is he an ape? What is God? If he created us in his image, which one of our images is he?

[Shiny]

That's fairly funny. I think what people don't realise is that the OT is mainly symbolism and st00f. But yes its been coming on for a while. They don't accept evolution like what Charles Darwin did, but as a modified Creationism. I believe God made us, then set us into this world to adapt and change. Its human nature. Its the way he made us.

 

 

 

And the way we gained thought. Adam and Eve. I believe that too somehow fits into Creatilution.

 

 

 

Old news. Really. But given scientists around the globe will give someone US$1billion for hard facts on evolution there must not be any proven things. Its not called the Theory of Evolution for nothing

[britonlongbow]

 

Two things:

 

 

 

1. Why do you insist on coming off as the most arrogant, idiotic, and frustratingly moronic person you can be? Evolution is NOT a "Mathmatical impossibility." Tell you what. If you can manage to disprove evolution right here on this message board, you can expect a Nobel Prize for over turning the most comprehensive explanation for the diversity of life in the world.

 

 

 

2. If you honestly believe that God set the world up to evolve, consider this: According to the church, God created man in his own image. If we evolved, what is God? Is God a form of micro-bacteria, or some form of trasitive species? Is he human, or is he an ape? What is God? If he created us in his image, which one of our images is he?

 

In response to your first comment: When my point of reference is being called ridiculous which such callousness from people who really don't know what they are talking about other than reading what is in a textbook is disconcerting. To your point about you can't disprove evolution, As I said before our world is hoping upon hope that we can have a world with no God. They will dismiss any evidence found against it. Such as figures like this

 

 

 

He concluded that the chances of just this one tiny DNA molecule coming into existence

 

over four billion years, with conditions just right, on just one of these extremely

 

large number of hospitable planets, including the earth, as one chance in 10415.36 But

 

this figure is also exceedingly beyond Borels law, which says that beyond a certain

 

point, improbable events never happen, regardless of the time span involved. (Indeed,

 

1050 planets would pack the known universe with planets [so that no space exists between

 

them] and yet the chances that life could evolve from dead matter on any one of

 

them are still beyond possibility.)

 

 

 

To your second point I agree that is why I say evolution and creationism can't co-exist

[Saru Inc]

Wow, the majority of the posts about how evolution is almost fact are so naive. If you actually did research you would realize that evolution is a mathematical Impossibility. Also if you hadn't realized spontaneous generation is also impossible. No theories are given such leniency from scrutiny other than evolution because our atheistic world wants so badly to believe that their is no God, and no morals

 

 

 

To the people saying that these two things are compatible are absolutely wrong.

 

First from a theological standpoint, Before sin there was no death. If there was evolution happening for "65 million years" there would have to have been death.

 

 

 

Second from a logical standpoint : Why would God that had the ability to create a world to "evolve" not simply create a fully functioning world?

 

 

 

All you saying that you are glad that the church finally "believes in science" don't believe in the Bible. You don't think that God even set the world up to evolve. So I don't see why you would embrace the church now for their acceptance of evolution.

 

 

 

Two things:

 

 

 

1. Why do you insist on coming off as the most arrogant, idiotic, and frustratingly moronic person you can be? Evolution is NOT a "Mathmatical impossibility." Tell you what. If you can manage to disprove evolution right here on this message board, you can expect a Nobel Prize for over turning the most comprehensive explanation for the diversity of life in the world.

 

 

 

2. If you honestly believe that God set the world up to evolve, consider this: According to the church, God created man in his own image. If we evolved, what is God? Is God a form of micro-bacteria, or some form of trasitive species? Is he human, or is he an ape? What is God? If he created us in his image, which one of our images is he?

 

 

 

 

 

First off, to the guy above you, whatever...

 

 

 

And I can disprove Evolution right here:

 

The Bible.

 

 

 

And #2 is [cabbage] lol, what God means, (and you know this, you just feel like riding the short bus all through your life) is that we were created to look like him, not as in color, but as in two arms, two legs, symmetry in general (besides certain organs)

 

 

 

And also, how can YOU prove Evolution? After all, if you're only going on Darwin, which is one man, then it's usually opinionated.

 

 

 

 

 

Why do I debate over the internet. :wall:

[gonpost]

Excuse me, guys. The point of this is to learn and to teach, and to understand.

 

 

 

We don't need to go around calling each other names.

 

 

 

Now, if there were no objections to my post, we can at least agree that the two are possibly compatible. I can also add a little more to that, just for kicks.

 

 

 

[hide=]First, we will deal with the issue of animal death prior to sin. This mistaken doctrine stems from two verses in the Bible. The first is Genesis 1:29-30, which states,

 

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, where-in there is life, I have given every green herb for meat; and it was so."

 

Yes, the Bible says that God gave the green plants to all animals to eat. This is a completely true statement. Adam and the animals could eat the plants for food. However, nowhere does the Bible say that animals "cannot" eat meat. There was no general prohibition against meat. However, it's not that simple a matter. One must also consider the location where God spoke these words.

 

God was addressing Adam within the Garden of Eden, which was a unique, special place. Eden was paradise, where there was no death, and where animals got along with each other. It is clear from Scripture that God created this Garden to be different from the rest of the world.

 

Some young earth creationists have argued that the entire world was originally created perfect and free from death. However, if this was true, then why did God plant a Garden, and place man in it? The Scriptures are clear that the Garden was separate and distinct from the rest of the world. We have no reason to suspect that there was no death outside of the Garden.

 

Also, nowhere does the Bible claim that there was no animal death before sinit is inferred from the Genesis text and this verse, Romans 5:12, which states,

 

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."

 

When Adam sinned, he did indeed introduce physical death (through his expulsion from paradise) for humanity. However, this verse has nothing to do with animal death prior to sin. There are several other good reasons for the existence of animal death prior to man's sin.

 

 

 

SOURCE: http://www.answersincreation.org/death.htm[/hide]

 

 

 

Now, it would honsetly be foolish for any one of us to try to prove or disprove one another's theory right here. None of us know enough. It's far better to read up on sources that have written about this.

 

 

 

I will also tell you right now that NO ONE CAN DISPROVE or prove the other's theory completely. Ergo it becomes a matter of probability, and so it's most logical to go with the one that seems most probable. I'll let you guys do your own research. If you want to become educated, it'll take you weeks to learn all you need to know. Don't expect to just read an article for one hour and make an informed decision.

 

 

 

But I repeat, it is entirely true that the bible is indeed compatible with evolution. I'd put some faith in that the catholic church did its research well. They are, after all, on God's side.

[Lenticular_J]

Wow, the majority of the posts about how evolution is almost fact are so naive. If you actually did research you would realize that evolution is a mathematical Impossibility.

 

You don't have to research [cabbage] to realize there is no God.

 

You just have to graduate high school and be on the internets, right?

 

I wish I could feed on the ignorance nearly every post in this thread. Including my own.