Slayer Sucks

[Cheefoo]

I don't know what to say other than I agree. However I do slayer for fun, and in case any slayer monsters turn out to be profitable or good training. It would just be a nice feeling to get an abyssal whip on my own.

[abbydog95]

Your 83 slayer, you must not "hate" it so much then...

[compfreak847]

Your 83 slayer, you must not "hate" it so much then...

 

Read my post. I personally love the skill; it's just that the XP and drops suck.

[ydrasil]

It is a long post, but I have tried to make everything as clear as I can and to add in all the relevant information.

 

 

 

Comparisons are obvious; a cannon will result in losing money, not making 135k. There is simply no way to achieve that while using a cannon. A cannon costs MUCH more then 113.3k per hour. What I was referring to with Aberrant Specters was #1 running around picking up the spread out drops, and #2 the fast kills; frequently I only got a couple of whip hits in before the specter died. I was eventually forced to use range, as melee was wasting my run energy and time. No, your numbers were based on flawed rates and inaccurate calculations. The cannon debate went on for much longer then page 15. We already established that bloodvield rates needed to be tested, as Qeltars were not lining up. You said you were willing to test them, then disappeared. Now your coming back and trying to support them. To be specific, .89 to 1 would make for 13.2k melee XP, not 11, but my melee XP was slightly less then 14.9 for summoning. You are claiming that cannon times include the time to earn the money; yet your XP rates show no sign of this. Lastlyo, for blodvields, I only had around 6 tasks, most of which were closer to 200 then 150, increasing my melee XP.

 

I don't see how you can say that after everything was mentioned about it. Cannon does use up money, but it isn't the drops that pays for it. The extra time pays for it, and the drops are still seperate. Although, even if you made slightly less than what was required for a cannon to be efficient, there is still hope. There is the money saved on supplies, this is something not often considered and will add up over time. There is the fact that you would receive the exact same value of drops, but in a shorter amount of time, this increases the profit per hour while doing Slayer.

 

 

 

At Aberrant Spectres, i've always melee'd and used a cannon in the well, and i've never run out of energy. While it may not be the best, the spot where I set up my cannon is extremely good and hits a wide variety of them per rotation. The idea is to be efficient, what does this mean? It means if a cannon is shooting at a Spectre 2-3 times rotation, it will die quite quickly. Hence, the better option is to purposely go for the ones that do not get hit as often. There are a few spawns that once hit, and depending where you are standing will move to attack you. The cannon can no longer hit them. These specific ones are a high priority in which to melee. As I recall stating, Zarfot's rates are ot the asolute. Using the same cannon spot in his guide lower stats, I managed to get a slightly higher experience rate, from 45k in his guide, to 47.5k I was getting. So in short, if you had to resort to Range, maybe you should rethink your cannon position and how you prioritise which spectre you attack.

 

 

 

I have tested Bloodvelds. I tested them back when I was still posting actually. When I was getting around to posting the results, that was when the thread was dieing, so I left it. My tests do show some very interesting conclusions in my opinion. I would simply showed the spreadsheet I had put all the information in, but I hadn't set it out well. There are cells all over the place with many different numbers (I still understand it though :thumbsup: ). I recorded experience gain, Supplies used, Drops gained - which include charms as well as the other drops. The tests were based on 54 minutes, the time in which a Unicorn will last (although I never actually needed the Unicorn). I used protect from melee the whole time in both tests, as well as superhuman strength. I repotted every 10 minutes. That was everything I can remember that I did at the moment. Now on to the results, I'll show what I got without a cannon first.

 

 

 

[hide=Bloodveld Numbers received]Amount of Bloodvelds killed - 179

 

Attack experience gained - 86,106

 

Hitpoints experience gained - 28,510

 

Range experience gained - 0

 

Time taken - 54 minutes

 

Prayer Potions used - 8.75

 

Pure sets used - 1.5

 

Cannonballs used - 0

 

Gold charms received - 14

 

Green charms received - 61

 

Crimson charms received - 11

 

Blue charms received - 3

 

Summoning experience gained from charms - 17,081.6

 

Value of drops received - 60,196

 

 

 

Ideally each number needs to be divided by 0.9 to get the rate per hour, as this was based on only 54 minutes. The only exception is for the pure sets which would still remain at 1.5 consumed, even still, the difference would have been minimal. So by altering each number to be one hour, you get:

 

 

 

Amount of Bloodvelds killed - 199.3

 

Attack experience gained - 95,673.3

 

Hitpoints experience gained - 31,677.8

 

Range experience gained - 0

 

Time taken - 60 minutes

 

Prayer Potions used - 9.72

 

Pure sets used - 1.5

 

Cannonballs used - 0

 

Gold charms received - 15.6

 

Green charms received - 67.8

 

Crimson charms received - 12.2

 

Blue charms received - 3.3

 

Summoning experience gained from charms - 18,979.6

 

Value of drops received - 66,884.4

 

 

 

Now onto what I got with a cannon:

 

 

 

Amount of Bloodvelds killed - 355

 

Attack experience gained - 67,852

 

Hitpoints experience gained - 22,601

 

Range experience gained - 51,292

 

Time taken - 54 minutes

 

Prayer Potions used - 8.75

 

Pure sets used - 1.5

 

Cannonballs used - 2,014

 

Gold charms received - 34

 

Green charms received - 111

 

Crimson charms received - 11

 

Blue charms received - 6

 

Summoning experience gained from charms - 28,871.2

 

Value of drops received - 104,798

 

 

 

When changed to one hour taken, you get:

 

 

 

Amount of Bloodvelds killed - 394.5

 

Attack experience gained - 75,391.1

 

Hitpoints experience gained - 25,112.2

 

Range experience gained - 56,991.1

 

Time taken - 60 minutes

 

Prayer Potions used - 9.72

 

Pure sets used - 1.5

 

Cannonballs used - 2,237.8

 

Gold charms received - 37.8

 

Green charms received - 123.3

 

Crimson charms received - 12.2

 

Blue charms received - 6.7

 

Summoning experience gained from charms - 32,079.1

 

Value of drops received - 116,442.2[/hide]

 

From this, some conclusions can already be reached. Qeltar, who has higher stats, and you said being a well known player for being efficient (yet oddly enough believed him not to be efficient here anyway) did average far lower than I did, both with and without a cannon. The only real difference in spped between us was the use of superhuman strength, but that cannot compensate for the increase of 92 kills in an hour. This was also not even on Slayer, so there was no Slayer Helmet used. The kill rate for Slayer would be even higher than what I have now. This also shows that is actually a great place to train, even better than Zombie Monkies I believe . The kill rate would be furthur increased with the implementation of a combat familiar. This could be expected to bring in 5-10k experience, but I am unsure. Even without the added experience per hour from a familiar, this achieves an overall experience per hour of 146,330.7. In this case, we are not even using piety, only superhuman strength. Were I to use that, the cost would be the same per hour as Zombie Monkies. However, due to drops received, would still be cheaper by at least 70k. So..... that is more experience per hour than Zombie Monkies, and you lose alot less per hour than Zombie Monkies. So before Armoured Zombies, Zombie Monkies were never the best place to train : .

 

 

 

Now lets get on to the calculations to determine efficiency.

 

 

 

199 kills per hour with no cannon.

 

395 kills per hour with a cannon.

 

A cannon consumes 2,238 cannonballs per hour costing 411,792 (184 each).

 

By using a cannon, 199 can be killed in only 30.23 minutes.

 

In that time you would only use up 1127.5 cannonballs costing 207,460.

 

You now have 29.77 minutes to make back that money.

 

That is the equivalent of making 418,095 per hour.

 

 

 

Now at first glance, with a money making rate of only 400k per hour, that doesn't seem worth it. However, by adding in all the money saved because the task was done in less time, does make it worth it.

 

 

 

Amount of Prayer Potions saved - 4.82

 

Amount of Pure Sets saved - 0.75

 

 

 

Amount saved on Prayer Potions - 38,294

 

Amount saved on Pure Sets - 3,809

 

 

 

Amount saved overall - 42,103

 

 

 

This brings down the required money per hour needing to be made to only 375,992, which is worth it at a money earning rate of 400k per hour. However, there is technically more money that is saved. Since you kill the exact same amount of Bloodvelds, but faster with a cannon, the profit rate per hour is increased whilst doing Slayer. It would be brought up to the rate of money from drops you would have received had you down the whole hour with a cannon. In this case, that is 116,442 gp you are earning per hour. That means you are actually saving an extra 49,558 per hour. This brings the hourly rate need to only 326,434.

 

 

 

We are still not done yet : . Due to the increased rate at which you kill them, you are expected to do on average more tasks per hour. This means the money made per hour from Slayer points is also increased. Using the median amount of Bloodvelds assigned (164.5) and comparing the two methods will show us the increased money earned for this task.

 

 

 

Time to complete a task of 164.5 without a cannon is 49.6 minutes.

 

That means on average you will complete 1.21 tasks of these per hour.

 

That means per hour you are getting 29 Slayer points.

 

These points are worth 0.83 of a Slayer Dart package, which are currently worth 79,500.

 

This means you are making 65,947.4 per hour.

 

 

 

Time to complete a task of 164.5 with a cannon is 25 minutes.

 

That means on average you will complete 2.4 tasks of these per hour.

 

That means per hour you are getting 57.6 Slayer points.

 

These points are worth 1.65 of a Slayer Dart package, which are currently worth 79,500.

 

This means you are making 130,900.6 per hour.

 

 

 

That is an increase of 64,953.2 per hour. This brings the overall required rate to only 261,480.8. So is a cannon worth using on this particular task? The answer is of course yes.

 

 

 

Something quite important to point out now, is that in all of the previous calculations that were done for the cannon, none were done to this full extent. Later on I had shown what the money saved on supplies was, but I did not factor in the increased profit rate from drops or the increase rate you make money from the Slayer points. Had this been done, I believe even the Skeletal Wyverns would have been brought under 400k per hour being required. This makes every single task that I gave examples to, worth using a cannon on.

 

 

 

The last parts of what I quoted are quite confusing. This part in particular - "To be specific, .89 to 1 would make for 13.2k melee XP, not 11, but my melee XP was slightly less then 14.9 for summoning." I understand where the 13.2k number came from (yet still it was supposed to be 13.3k as 0.89*14.9 = 13.261, that rounds up), yet why did you say it was 13.2k melee xp not 11? Also, why was the melee xp slightly less than 14.9? The 14.9k was the amount of Slayer experience you said that a person could average (which I still after all this time ,find quite laughable that you still think that), and not the melee experience. Oddly enough, if you erase your typo's, we see that you have contradicted yourself, or maybe it was correcting, I do not know. The reason for this was the 11k was the number you stated as being the Summoning experience per hour from Slayer. You are now saying it is 13.2k (what I assumed you were supposed to be saying anyway, as those numbers weren't for melee). Furthur contradicting is that you also said it was 41 crimsons per hour for 14.9k Slayer experience which is 14,350 Summoning experience.

 

 

 

You also say I claimed that the cannon times include the time taken to earn the money. Please show me were I said that if it isn't too hard. Finally about the amount assigned on average, it is hard to say an average, or even that what you have said is correct. It would make sense that the amount assigned is random, in which case the mean should be equal to the median. However, Slayer and Combat may have an effect and you will average slightly higher than the median. Nothing is known for certain. Also you say because your task numbers were higher, you would get more melee experience.... Had you been using a cannon on the task, that would also be the case, as is also more Range experience. So I am not quite sure what you were trying to point out.

[ultimatballr]

 

It's a nice change from skilling, and because it doesn't get boring (like no lifeing at armoured zombies or monkey guards) most people like it

 

 

 

Can I ask you how getting 99 melees faster at powertraining spots is considered "No-lifing" but getting 99 melees over the course of a year with slayer isn't?

 

 

 

The extra 60k came from the Slayer points.

 

 

 

So are you saying that the 15 point gain from 1 task is equivalent to 60k worth of runes? or whatever it is your buying with the points.

 

 

 

OR

 

 

 

Is it 60k total after completing 10 tasks in a row netting you 210 points total, granted you were using Duradel (w/e his name is) the whole time.

[compfreak847]

Main areas I disagree with you on: First of all, as previously stated, I blocked waterfiends, which reduced my charms per hour from the average slaying. Second, I meant you didn't include the time to earn the cannon money, which made your comparisons pointless; they MUST be included. Your bloodveild numbers appear to be correct, but you forgot a couple of factor: you were only recieveing 75k attack XP the 2nd time, meaning that more of your damage was going to the cannon (less XP) then meele. Also, a slayer mask will result in higher melee XP, making the difference in melee XP with and without a cannon more pronounced. If your numbers are indeed correct, we can calculate how much a canon will speed up our overall XP\hour on slayer, assuming 65k melee XP average on non-bloodveld tasks:

 

 

 

Without cannon: 147,326 XP\hour (not including slayer) for a 200 kill task

 

Using 160 as an average, we come out with 117,860 XP for a task in 48 minutes

 

This will cost roughly 64k in prayer potions and super sets, requiring 9.6 minutes at Avansies to earn back, netting an additional 6.4k XP

 

With cannon: 189,573 XP\hour (not including slayer) for a 394 kill task w\ 413,845 cannonball cost

 

Using 160 as an average, we come out with 76,897 XP for a task in 24.3 minutes at a cost of 168,058.

 

168,058 will take 25.2 minutes to earn at Avansies, netting 16.8k XP.

 

Potions will cost roughly 32k in prayer potions and super sets, requiring 4.8 minutes at Avansies to earn back, netting an additional 3.2k XP

 

 

 

This leaves us with a comparison of:

 

 

 

58.6 minutes for a melee task, netting 124,260 XP in 59.6 minutes with 0 cost

 

54.3 minutes for a melee + cannon task, netting 96,897 XP in 54.3 minutes with 0 cost

 

 

 

Standardizing costs, you are losing 27,363 XP to save 4.3 minutes, a rate of 381,809 XP per hour required to make it. The tiny extra slayer points from completing the task 7% faster (roughly 4.2k GP worth) do not make up for it. Your fatal flaw was not calculating the time required to gain the XP back.

 

 

 

 

Can I ask you how getting 99 melees faster at powertraining spots is considered "No-lifing" but getting 99 melees over the course of a year with slayer isn't?

 

 

Good point. You spend far less time camping then slaying, making slaying more of a no lifing skill.

 

 

 

 

So are you saying that the 15 point gain from 1 task is equivalent to 60k worth of runes? or whatever it is your buying with the points.

 

 

 

OR

 

 

 

Is it 60k total after completing 10 tasks in a row netting you 210 points total, granted you were using Duradel (w/e his name is) the whole time.

 

He's saying that the 210 points total can be used, at a cost of 35 points each for a total of 6 purchases of slayer dart for 70k profit each or 420k for 10 tasks, to profit 42k on each task. The other bonuses from 100 levels and such bring it up to 60k profit from the slayer runes per hour. Or so I'm assumming, I'll take his word for it as I'm too lazy to calculate :P

 

I remain unconvinced that that much money can be made with slayer, though. I lost over 5m training hard for a week with a cannon for half the tasks.

[ydrasil]

Compfreak847 posted just before me. I was previewing this post and it said there was a new reply :lol: . So i'll add in my response here.

 

 

 

So are you saying that the 15 point gain from 1 task is equivalent to 60k worth of runes? or whatever it is your buying with the points.

 

 

 

OR

 

 

 

Is it 60k total after completing 10 tasks in a row netting you 210 points total, granted you were using Duradel (w/e his name is) the whole time.

 

Sorry for not being clear. It is neither of the things you have stated however. It is because not every task is worth 15 points. Over the course of 50 tasks, you will receive 15 points from 45 tasks, you will receive 75 points from 4 tasks, and 225 points from 1. This means in total you would get 1,200 points, which averages out to 24 per task. I had got the number 60k from when I had shown this many pages ago at those prices. The prices at the moment are: Mind rune - 9, and Death rune - 282. This means that a Slayer Dart package is currently worth 79,500. 24/35*79,500 = 54,514.3 That shows per task what you earn on average from the Slayer points. Since every task takes under an hour (except for about 5 or so that don't, but if their task number is low enough it takes under an hour also). So the money from Slayer points is guaranteed to be higher per hour than the 54.5k. I hope that cleared it up.

 

 

 

Main areas I disagree with you on: First of all, as previously stated, I blocked waterfiends, which reduced my charms per hour from the average slaying. Second, I meant you didn't include the time to earn the cannon money, which made your comparisons pointless; they MUST be included. Your bloodveild numbers appear to be correct, but you forgot a couple of factor: you were only recieveing 75k attack XP the 2nd time, meaning that more of your damage was going to the cannon (less XP) then meele. Also, a slayer mask will result in higher melee XP, making the difference in melee XP with and without a cannon more pronounced. If your numbers are indeed correct, we can calculate how much a canon will speed up our overall XP\hour on slayer, assuming 65k melee XP average on non-bloodveld tasks:

 

You blocked Waterfiends, but that doesn't mean everyone will. They have a decent experience rate and the task results in an ample amount of charms and one I wouldn't suggest anyone to block. The reason I did not include the time taken to earn the money back from the cannon as that is not part of Slayer. The rate at which you are getting Slayer experience is increased. Unless I am mistaken (which I hope to god I'm not, and in that case that no-one else does this), once you complete a task using a cannon, do you go and get another task? Or go to earn back the money? The money can be made prior to even starting Slayer without the intention to even do Slayer, so there are some cases where the time spent to earn the money isn't needed at all. By that I mean, someone may have gotten to 99 Runecrafting making only Nature runes and made alot of money. They hadn't intended on doing Slayer, but since they have the money, they think why not? Not the best example really as it would infer their earning rate is alot higher than 400k and a cannon is even more so worth using than before.

 

 

 

 

 

Without cannon: 147,326 XP\hour (not including slayer) for a 200 kill task

 

Using 160 as an average, we come out with 117,860 XP for a task in 48 minutes

 

This will cost roughly 64k in prayer potions and super sets, requiring 9.6 minutes at Avansies to earn back, netting an additional 6.4k XP

 

With cannon: 189,573 XP\hour (not including slayer) for a 394 kill task w\ 413,845 cannonball cost

 

Using 160 as an average, we come out with 76,897 XP for a task in 24.3 minutes at a cost of 168,058.

 

168,058 will take 25.2 minutes to earn at Avansies, netting 16.8k XP.

 

Potions will cost roughly 32k in prayer potions and super sets, requiring 4.8 minutes at Avansies to earn back, netting an additional 3.2k XP

 

 

 

This leaves us with a comparison of:

 

 

 

58.6 minutes for a melee task, netting 124,260 XP in 59.6 minutes with 0 cost

 

54.3 minutes for a melee + cannon task, netting 96,897 XP in 54.3 minutes with 0 cost

 

 

 

Standardizing costs, you are losing 27,363 XP to save 4.3 minutes, a rate of 381,809 XP per hour required to make it. The tiny extra slayer points from completing the task 7% faster (roughly 4.2k GP worth) do not make up for it. Your fatal flaw was not calculating the time required to gain the XP back.

 

The flaw here is that you still believe the money has to be made by Aviansies. I have said so many times that it is foolish to think that the majority or average player will do this. There is a guide on these forums that describes how to make money by NPC trading, a fair few of those methods would make alot more than Aviansies, one method was even up to 720k profit per hour, but not anymore unfortunately. You can make up to 593k from Arnold at Piscatoris General Store. Up to 605k from Canifis Cloth Store, up to 799k from Pirate clothing. Up to 690k for Ogre Cloths. Seeing how a wide variety of people have access to it and how easy it is to do, would it not be fair to say that this would be the better money making option? By killing Spiritual Mages for Dragon Boots you are making money and also regaining melee experience. From what I have seen and others have also, the drop rate is about 1/100 to 1/125. It is quite possible to average 2 per hour without doing Slayer, that is 557k profit per hour, better than Aviansies. Since this thread is about Slayer, what better way to make money than from a Slayer monster? I'm not 100% sure on the kill rate w/o Slayer Helm, but you are likely to be getting around 75k melee experience per hour or more.

 

 

 

According to how you worked it out, i'll follow the same process:

 

 

 

In 48.24 minutes without a cannon you get 118,453.1 experience.

 

It will cost 68,176 in supplies, and you will make about 53,776 from drops.

 

That requires approximately 1.55 minutes to make back the lost money, and you also gain 2,585 experience.

 

 

 

In 24.3 minutes with a cannon you get 76,789.1 experience.

 

it will cost 201,132 in supplies and you will make about 53,776 (profit would remain the same).

 

That requires approximately 15.87 minutes to make back the lost money, and you also gain 26,455.3 experience.

 

 

 

 

 

This leaves us with a comparison of:

 

 

 

No cannon - 49.79 minutes to get 121,038.1 experience at no cost.

 

Cannon - 40.17 minutes to get 103,244.4 experience at no cost.

 

 

 

Also note, in that extra time difference between the skills, you could earn a furthur 89,305 gp and 16,033.3 experience. This brings the cannon up to 119,277.7 experience, only 1,760.4 experience less in the same time frame. However, you will also gain an additional 89,305gp. By using this as your money maker, a cannon is worth using. It was even worth using before. Keep in mind that if you do not use a cannon on Slayer, you would have melee stats at 99 with alot of experience past it and not have 99 Range. It is better off having all at 99.

[compfreak847]

D boots drop rate is closer to 1\140, as mentioned by Inushakant, making for less then 400k profit per hour with the cost of supplies. 200 kills per hour is reasonable, though. I don't know much about NPC trading, but I know that if any number of people start doing it it is ruined. Avansies is the best 'common denominator' moneymaker; I can't name many better off the top of my head besides green dragons (Requires a TON of experience, practice, and 100% attention to obtain good rates, although now there is so many people there that the profit has dropped) besides GWD, which requires a lot of skill and cannot be done at the drop of a hat nor at any times (I rarely have time to devote 2-3 hours of 100% attention for a GWD trip).

[TheDayRsDied]

287.

 

 

 

First of all, think of all the time you spend doing crappy tasks. Tasks that dont make money. Think of all the opportunity cost of wasting all of your time killing steel dragons, and, well, basically every other non-slayer monster on the task list(if it were up to me, only monsters with a slayer requirement would be assigned). And think of the money you get in return for keeping the slayer points.

 

 

 

Slayer points are good for learning how to make slayer rings, and slayer helms, and a black list. I you like ranging, I guess broad tipped equipment too.(I never range) After that, what do you get? 70k per 35 slayer points. OMG T3h B3333G CASH!!111!one!!111! You are going to waste hours killing steel dragons, just to preserve lousy slayer points that dont give any money?

 

 

 

If you get a crappy task you have to skip it. That means a loss of 30 slayer points, and a loss of 70k. So, you are putting yourself in a position where you pay out 70k in order to have the right to gamble on wether or not you will get a good assignment.

 

 

 

Now this is going to sound crazy.....buy the solution to all of this is just to dump slayer points. Between the earnings you get, and the of pioints you will have to lose to cancel tasks, the profit from slayer dart points is negligible, especially when you factor in the opportunity cost of non-profitable assignments. There is always going to be a chain of bad tasks in a row that will cost too many points. Ignore the points after you buy all the abilities and the blacklist.

 

 

 

Second, what the hell do you think you are proving by saying that a level 7 spider is better range experience than slayer? Since Queltar estimates the hourly range exp from avianese to be only 30k, that actually falls behind your figure for spiders. ALL YOU ARE DOING IS PROVING THAT A LEVEL 7 SPIDER is BETTER RANGE EXP THEN EVERY MONSTER INCLUDING SLAYER MONSTERS. THERE IS NO WAY TO RANGE TRAIN FAST AND MAKE A PROFIT. PERIOD (and that is why I dont train range)

 

 

 

And finally, if you use a 7k prayer potion on Aberrant Specters, or any mnster, and expect to make a profit you are CLUELESS. "Praying" is not a strategy, its a cop out cheap shot method of drinking your way out of fighting. You just have to take food and go to the bank when you run out.

[compfreak847]

287.

 

 

 

First of all, think of all the time you spend doing crappy tasks. Tasks that dont make money. Think of all the opportunity cost of wasting all of your time killing steel dragons, and, well, basically every other non-slayer monster on the task list(if it were up to me, only monsters with a slayer requirement would be assigned). And think of the money you get in return for keeping the slayer points.

 

 

 

Slayer points are good for learning how to make slayer rings, and slayer helms, and a black list. I you like ranging, I guess broad tipped equipment too.(I never range) After that, what do you get? 70k per 35 slayer points. OMG T3h B3333G CASH!!111!one!!111! You are going to waste hours killing steel dragons, just to preserve lousy slayer points that dont give any money?

 

 

 

If you get a crappy task you have to skip it. That means a loss of 30 slayer points, and a loss of 70k. So, you are putting yourself in a position where you pay out 70k in order to have the right to gamble on wether or not you will get a good assignment.

 

 

 

Now this is going to sound crazy.....buy the solution to all of this is just to dump slayer points. Between the earnings you get, and the of pioints you will have to lose to cancel tasks, the profit from slayer dart points is negligible, especially when you factor in the opportunity cost of non-profitable assignments. There is always going to be a chain of bad tasks in a row that will cost too many points. Ignore the points after you buy all the abilities and the blacklist.

 

 

 

Second, what the hell do you think you are proving by saying that a level 7 spider is better range experience than slayer? Since Queltar estimates the hourly range exp from avianese to be only 30k, that actually falls behind your figure for spiders. ALL YOU ARE DOING IS PROVING THAT A LEVEL 7 SPIDER is BETTER RANGE EXP THEN EVERY MONSTER INCLUDING SLAYER in the game that I am aware of. And you lose money on the bad drops.

 

Psst. THE SPIDERS ARE LEVEL 50.

 

 

 

Points are a good thing; with the blacklist and cancellation you don't miss much, and they really help out the profit. Skipping them is a bad idea.

[ydrasil]

D boots drop rate is closer to 1\140, as mentioned by Inushakant, making for less then 400k profit per hour with the cost of supplies. 200 kills per hour is reasonable, though. I don't know much about NPC trading, but I know that if any number of people start doing it it is ruined. Avansies is the best 'common denominator' moneymaker; I can't name many better off the top of my head besides green dragons (Requires a TON of experience, practice, and 100% attention to obtain good rates, although now there is so many people there that the profit has dropped) besides GWD, which requires a lot of skill and cannot be done at the drop of a hat nor at any times (I rarely have time to devote 2-3 hours of 100% attention for a GWD trip).

 

It is hard to put down the drop rate, but from what I have seen, it is closer to 125. That doesn't mean I am correct, but what I believe it to be. I also believe you purposely lied to make your point.... 200 kills per hour is reasonable. I did a test to see how many I could kill, repotting every 10 minutes and I had protect from mage and superhuman strength on the entire time. My prayer bonus was +22 by the way. I used my Geyser Titan as the timer, but it died just before the hour ended. Here is what I got:

 

 

 

 

The first picture shows me Summoning the Titan. In the second picture, the red bar you see is from the Geyser Titan dieing. I took 2 Pure sets and 10 Potions with me. The third picture shows my ending inventory. I also just noticed I accidentally saved the last 2 images as jpeg instead of png #-o , Oh well.

 

 

 

In 55.5 minutes approximately, I killed 230 Spiritual Mages that is 248.6, which rounds off to 249 per hour. In my previous post, I said the kill rate was about 250, so I was very close : . Also, I logged out at one point during the test, if I hadn't wasted that extra 10 seconds waiting to log out, I might even have got one more kill in. That would make me rate of 250 dead on. Instead of showing what I spent on supplies and then showing at per hour, I'll go straight to per hour. That is:

 

 

 

1 Geyser Titan - 3,753.5

 

9 Prayer Potions - 77,331.9

 

Pure Set - 5,703

 

 

 

Total - 86,788.4

 

 

 

From the drops received, I gained:

 

 

 

4 Law runes - 1,204

 

6 Blood runes - 1,650

 

51 Chaos runes - 4,590

 

164 Water runes - 2,624

 

30 Mind runes - 270

 

48 Astral runes - 7,248

 

49 Fire runes - 441

 

219 Air runes - 2,847

 

120 Nature runes - 28,080

 

24 Death runes - 6,768

 

207 Pure Essence - 29,394

 

 

 

Total - 85,116

 

Total when compensated for 1 hour - 92,017.3

 

 

 

So, for you to say the cost of supplies brings it down, you are mistaken. Those little drops pay for the supplies used and even make money. Keep in mind I also got 2 Dragon Boots, worth 556,532 for the both. That means I made the equivalent of 606,885.1 gp/h. It will be slightly less on average as the drop rate is about 1/125. The drop rate for my test was at 1/115, and I got the boots on kills 40 and 99. The point is, after testing, it is shown that Spiritual Mages are even more worth it than I had originally thought.

 

 

 

Since this entire thread is based on efficiency and Slayer, it is fine to say that they are in this for the long term experience. Due to that, 83 Slayer isn't really all that high compared to the rest of the way to 99. So it would be fine to say this is the money maker in my opinion. However, I am also not going to say you have to do this. The calculations to determine which is more efficient is not only pertinent to the one money making method. It doesn't matter how you make it, as long as you do. That is the point i've being trying to make.

[compfreak847]

You can't take 2 boot drops and extrapolate them to an hour. My actual drop rate is closer to 1/160; I've had frequent 400+ dry streaks. My kill rate with void range is 207 per hour, concentrating, and 230 with melee. I do not use a combat familiar. As kent said http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=763395, the drop rate is generally accepted to be 125-130 per hour.

[ydrasil]

You can't take 2 boot drops and extrapolate them to an hour. My actual drop rate is closer to 1/160; I've had frequent 400+ dry streaks. My kill rate with void range is 207 per hour, concentrating, and 230 with melee. I do not use a combat familiar. As kent said http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=763395, the drop rate is generally accepted to be 125-130 per hour.

 

Clearly you do not pay enough attention then. I'll quote why this is the case:

 

 

 

It will be slightly less on average as the drop rate is about 1/125. The drop rate for my test was at 1/115, and I got the boots on kills 40 and 99.

 

Please explain to me where I have said that the rate of just over 600k was the average? This quote of what I said specifically shows that the average expected is to be lower. The point of what I posted wasn't to get the exact average, but to prove it was higher than you claimed. You posted that once the money spent on supplies was counted, that you would average less than 400k per hour. I showed that the drops (excluding Dragon Boots) pay for the supplies and even make extra. So it essentially comes down to any Dragon Boots revceived is 100% profit. You say your drop rate is about 160, and that is 230 kills per hour using melee. Guess how much that is per hour. 230/160*278,266 = 400,007.375. That is almostly exactly 400k profit per hour, and don't forget that you get more experience per hour here than at Aviansies. A combat familiar should always be used. If the only difference between us was the use of one and 20 kills, then it is definately worth using. 20 kills is worth 20/125*278,266 = 44,523. So unless the pouch costs more than that, it is worth using.

 

 

 

Now this is one of the reasons it is hard to take you seriously, and it really annoys me as you have done it throughout this thread. I said the drop rate was around 1/125, you then argued that was wrong and that it is lower drop rate. I show the results of a test I performed, you infer it is inaccurate (by saying you can't extrapolate, even though I specifically stated it was lower). Then you now say the drop rate is 1/125, but it is said in a way as if you were right all along. If it was so generally accepted as you say, why was I wrong when I stated it originally?

[compfreak847]

You can't take 2 boot drops and extrapolate them to an hour. My actual drop rate is closer to 1/160; I've had frequent 400+ dry streaks. My kill rate with void range is 207 per hour, concentrating, and 230 with melee. I do not use a combat familiar. As kent said http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=763395, the drop rate is generally accepted to be 125-130 per hour.

 

Clearly you do not pay enough attention then. I'll quote why this is the case:

 

 

 

It will be slightly less on average as the drop rate is about 1/125. The drop rate for my test was at 1/115, and I got the boots on kills 40 and 99.

 

Please explain to me where I have said that the rate of just over 600k was the average? This quote of what I said specifically shows that the average expected is to be lower. The point of what I posted wasn't to get the exact average, but to prove it was higher than you claimed. You posted that once the money spent on supplies was counted, that you would average less than 400k per hour. I showed that the drops (excluding Dragon Boots) pay for the supplies and even make extra. So it essentially comes down to any Dragon Boots revceived is 100% profit. You say your drop rate is about 160, and that is 230 kills per hour using melee. Guess how much that is per hour. 230/160*278,266 = 400,007.375. That is almostly exactly 400k profit per hour, and don't forget that you get more experience per hour here than at Aviansies. A combat familiar should always be used. If the only difference between us was the use of one and 20 kills, then it is definately worth using. 20 kills is worth 20/125*278,266 = 44,523. So unless the pouch costs more than that, it is worth using.

 

 

 

Now this is one of the reasons it is hard to take you seriously, and it really annoys me as you have done it throughout this thread. I said the drop rate was around 1/125, you then argued that was wrong and that it is lower drop rate. I show the results of a test I performed, you infer it is inaccurate (by saying you can't extrapolate, even though I specifically stated it was lower). Then you now say the drop rate is 1/125, but it is said in a way as if you were right all along. If it was so generally accepted as you say, why was I wrong when I stated it originally?

 

Look, drop rates aren't exactly pinpointed. When I say 130, I mean anything from the 120-140 range; with only a few dozen boot drops it's impossible to pinpoint exactly. Now, from MY experience, it is much less frequent then that, but others have stated that it is more common, so I'm assuming my 40 or so boots have just been unlucky. It is true that d boots could be as good as avansies, but they are dropping and are luck based; I've had 500 kill trip without a single drop, not even breaking even. Most importantly, for the (currently negligible and lessening) advantage over Avansies, you have to get 83 slayer, over 20% of the total XP required for 99 slayer, all gotten with very inefficient training.

[ydrasil]

Look, drop rates aren't exactly pinpointed. When I say 130, I mean anything from the 120-140 range; with only a few dozen boot drops it's impossible to pinpoint exactly. Now, from MY experience, it is much less frequent then that, but others have stated that it is more common, so I'm assuming my 40 or so boots have just been unlucky. It is true that d boots could be as good as avansies, but they are dropping and are luck based; I've had 500 kill trip without a single drop, not even breaking even. Most importantly, for the (currently negligible and lessening) advantage over Avansies, you have to get 83 slayer, over 20% of the total XP required for 99 slayer, all gotten with very inefficient training.

 

It isn't quite fair to say that the Dragon Boots are luck based without also saying the same for Aviansies. The drops may be more common, but it is still luck based. The only way to remove luck from being a deceiding factor is to quite simply do things that do not require luck (like NPC trading). It is possible to kill 84 Aviansies and get no Addy bars, it is also possible to kill 5 Spiritual Mages and get Dragon Boots on every kill (I made it 84 and 5 as the chances of both happening are almost exactly the same, approximately once every 30-31 billion :lol: ).

 

 

 

I also do not find how you can say the advantage over Aviansies is negligible. The profit rate is expected to be the exact same at a drop rate of 1/160. You are now saying it is about 1/130, so the profit is better. Also there is more experience gained from the Mages. At that drop rate and 230 kills per hour, the rate is around 500k, a 100k bonus. You also get about 39k extra experience per hour. Also, with what you have said earlier you say you lose out on melee experience by using a cannon. So would it not be prudent to regain melee experience, instead of getting more Range? As for it lessening, by looking at its GE graph it is true they are dropping, at the moment by less than 3k or so a day. However if you look at it in the long term, its prices keep rising and falling. They may even change to rising soon, you can tell this by looking at the daily line and the 5-day average line.

 

 

 

Now yes, it is about 20% of the experience to 99, but I went through this two posts ago. Again you mention it is inefficient. Compared to Zombie Monkies, unless you make 25mil an hour, Slayer is more efficient. Compared to Armoured Zombies, unless you make over 660k Slayer isn't worth it. However, that number was based on your rates, and compared to generally what other people have been getting, your numbers are not the average. The profit per hour was about 30k lower than what you stated, and the experience rate lower by 5-15k. By excluding the lower experience rate and getting what you have said, but using the average profit of 145k that many people have gotten (evidence in the links I posted originally), if you make over 165k per hour, Slayer is more efficient. So Slayer is essentially the most efficient way to train at the moment.

[Italian5kamikaze]

It is possible to kill 84 Aviansies and get no Addy bars

 

 

 

False.

[ydrasil]

It is possible to kill 84 Aviansies and get no Addy bars

 

 

 

False.

 

When I saw this, I couldn't think of a word to properly describe it. So instead tell me then, is it possible to get kill 5 Spiritual Mages and got Dragon Boots on every kill?

[compfreak847]

@ earlier post: Yes, avansies are luck based, but a 1/4 drop rate is different then 1/130. :P As I've said before, I've had 630 kills without boots; according to probability I 'should' have gotten almost 5 pairs. In avansies terms, that's killing 20 of them without a drop; something that takes a few minutes. My 600 kills took over 3 hours, making for a much more annoying time. Obviously, in the long run, it does not matter as much, but because of streaks like that my drop rates have been substandard. Range XP is still more important, as we are not getting nearly as much range as melee XP for the one (VERY questionably) 'cannonable' task.

 

 

 

@Kamikaze: Yes, it is entirely possible; you could kill 1 million nad never get any. It's also possible to kill 100 mages and get boots every kill. Probablyity is cool like that. But killing 84 avansies with no bars is equivalent to 2.7 thousand spirit mages without boots.

[RayOxide]

A question i just wanted to ask way back and kept forgetting, comp..

 

 

 

Are you sure slayer sucks?

 

Theres many more people who like slayer than there are who avidly hate it.

[compfreak847]

A question i just wanted to ask way back and kept forgetting, comp..

 

 

 

Are you sure slayer sucks?

 

Theres many more people who like slayer than there are who avidly hate it.

 

Depends what your referring to. From a gameplay and fun standpoint, it's awesome. It's one of my favorite skills, and is almost universally liked. From an XP standpoint, it sucks.

[RayOxide]

It wasnt made for xp..

 

 

 

People who are complete slayer clique nerds think its best for everything though.

 

Thats what annoys me about slayer.

[compfreak847]

It wasnt made for xp..

 

 

 

People who are complete slayer clique nerds think its best for everything though.

 

Thats what annoys me about slayer.

 

Then what was it made for? It's bad money, bad XP, no reason whatsoever to train. The one thing it has going for it is fun, but most skills at least pretend to be useful.

[RayOxide]

For drops that are only gotten from slayer monsters?

 

 

 

Which may be destroyed now due to PvP.. #-o

[homowz]

Depends what your referring to. From a gameplay and fun standpoint, it's awesome. It's one of my favorite skills, and is almost universally liked. From an XP standpoint, it sucks.

 

 

 

this realy depends on what monsters u get...

 

for example if you get skeletons and u wear ur salve (e) ammy and a slayer helmet u get 35% str/att bonus. that way i can gain allmost 120k xp/h...

 

 

 

also tasks like fire giants (with guthan and/or bunyip) gives lots of xp, u gain easy money wich compensates the repair of ur guthan and the cost of the bunyip and you easely get 150+ gold charms, really usefull for summ training if u dont want to put to much money in it...

 

 

 

and btw, runescape is all about gameplay and fun. if u look at everything and think about 'how much xp will i get' u'dd beter stop playing cuz the fun seems gone...

 

 

 

 

 

[compfreak847]

Depends what your referring to. From a gameplay and fun standpoint, it's awesome. It's one of my favorite skills, and is almost universally liked. From an XP standpoint, it sucks.

 

 

 

this realy depends on what monsters u get...

 

for example if you get skeletons and u wear ur salve (e) ammy and a slayer helmet u get 35% str/att bonus. that way i can gain allmost 120k xp/h...

 

 

 

also tasks like fire giants (with guthan and/or bunyip) gives lots of xp, u gain easy money wich compensates the repair of ur guthan and the cost of the bunyip and you easely get 150+ gold charms, really usefull for summ training if u dont want to put to much money in it...

 

 

 

and btw, runescape is all about gameplay and fun. if u look at everything and think about 'how much xp will i get' u'dd beter stop playing cuz the fun seems gone...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wrong about skeletons. Slave ammy doesn't stack with mask, and the top with salve is 102k XP\hour, which I get at zombie monkies, with far more profit then you'll ever get from skeletons. Fire giants don't give nearly as much XP or money OR charms, with far more investment (like guthans) then armored zombies. Runscape is about fun and gameplay, but some of us would rather get our 99s fast then have fun some other way, like PVP. And running around killing the same 20 monsters isn't necessarily funner then running around killing armored zombies.