Slayer Sucks

[compfreak847]

Ehh, I'll respond to it simply. What are you arguing against? My point, again: Slayer is bad XP and money, and is only worth training if your really enjoy it and are willing to make many sacrifices for the total levels. For the vast majority of players, getting 80 slayer is going to be as high as they will want need for total levels; they would have to be near maxed in most skills to make training slayer any higher better for total levels. All items covered in far more detail through the course of this thread. What are you arguing against? :|

[IHasChicken]

As is common with many large threads, the initial statement is often overlooked and overcomplicated. He just says that in his opinion, slayer sucks - which is a perfectly reasonable point of view for one to take. You may not agree with him, you can produce a ton of facts and figures about various monsters and xp and cash rates, but the simple thing is slayer, like any skill, is loved by some, and hated by others. You would have to be very convincing to make him change his point of view, and all of the people on this forum cannot change his point of view. The only people that can are the people at Jagex, if they release an update that appeals to him enough, I'm sure he'll slay again. Nuff said ;)

[compfreak847]

As is common with many large threads, the initial statement is often overlooked and overcomplicated. He just says that in his opinion, slayer sucks - which is a perfectly reasonable point of view for one to take. You may not agree with him, you can produce a ton of facts and figures about various monsters and xp and cash rates, but the simple thing is slayer, like any skill, is loved by some, and hated by others. You would have to be very convincing to make him change his point of view, and all of the people on this forum cannot change his point of view. The only people that can are the people at Jagex, if they release an update that appeals to him enough, I'm sure he'll slay again. Nuff said ;)

 

I'm afraid your quite mistaken. From a personal standpoint, I believe that slayer is a really fun, amazing skill - one of the best, and I love training it and will continue to do so. The cold, hard facts, however, state that it is very bad XP and money.

[IHasChicken]

Well, forgive me for having mixed messages - as I said, the bigger the thread gets, the more confusing it gets. :(

[compfreak847]

Well, forgive me for having mixed messages - as I said, the bigger the thread gets, the more confusing it gets. :(

 

Happens :P

 

I've had some good discussion, some bad discussion, and some arguing-with-an-obstinate-idiot discussion. I thought I had this covered in the first post, guess not :lol:

[langer]

Ehh, I'll respond to it simply. What are you arguing against? My point, again: Slayer is bad XP and money, and is only worth training if your really enjoy it and are willing to make many sacrifices for the total levels. For the vast majority of players, getting 80 slayer is going to be as high as they will want need for total levels; they would have to be near maxed in most skills to make training slayer any higher better for total levels. All items covered in far more detail through the course of this thread. What are you arguing against? :|

 

 

 

In fact, absolutely nothing with that statement. I wouldn't say it's bad money, I'd say it's not as high as it used to be (when I got 75 slayer, addy boots were 30k, 80 slayer, rune boots were 250k and 85 slayer, whips were 3,4k, talk about prices going down !) and also not as good as some very lucrative methods of combat.

 

And again, I'm very biased towards slayer as it is my way of playing in conjonction with farming tour and clueing in between tasks. I really should get back to the posts where you argue with ydrasomething about the "cost" of slayer xp. Slayer might be the slowest skill the level, but it is probably the only skill that gives lots of experience in other skills. Making the skill worth training IMO. BTW 793K xp away from 99 slayer here. Should get it around christmas or new year.

[Lep]

Well I've personally made over 150M with Slayer and I'm only 98, so I guess the people that say it's bad must not be very good at it. :P

 

 

 

By the way, grats Langer. :thumbsup:

[langer]

Yeah same here, but unlike the newer players, we had a good time on slayer. Prices are now lower and we can't compare slayer now and slayer 3 years ago...

 

 

 

What compfreak says is : there's money to be made in slayer, it adds up, but it's not near as good as the best methods out there. Which is painfully right to anyone who wants to raise slayer in the intention of getting combat xp.

 

 

 

ohhhh and remember before the trade limit and the newbies didn't know that Snapdragon seeds were useful? Wow did I make good money farming those... sorry for off-topic comment!

[Melos]

I love Slayer <3. And that's the main reason I train it lol...

[IHasChicken]

As with any skill, when there is new conent released (such as the whip,) there is a surge in prices of both the final products (whips, d boots, dark bows etc.) and also the price of complementary goods (foods, potions, etc.), and therefore a surge in popularity in the skill. When they release a 95 slayer monster that drops something far better than the whip or a powerful magic staff or something, while everyone is desperately levelling up their slayer to fight it, we'll be ready (except for me, i'm only 55 slayer and have been a member for 4 days :cry: :cry: :cry: )

[Inuashakent]

Well I've personally made over 150M with Slayer and I'm only 98, so I guess the people that say it's bad must not be very good at it. :P

 

 

 

By the way, grats Langer. :thumbsup:

 

I plan to make 70b from killing chickens for life. The rates are hard, colf, and have been tested. There is no way you could make money faster than normal training.

[Friendyboy]

287.

 

 

 

Ok, I am new to this, so hello to all!

 

 

 

First of all I would like to talk about the whole abuse of high levels for having a low level on a certain skill, in this instance slayer. There is a reason people have low levels, this usually being not enjoying the skill! This is therefore an absurd case for any argument! If this is the case, you are suggesting a player that is level 138 must have 99 slayer to be a good player? sad really.

 

 

 

I, as a level 131, find slayer to be very safe, as with 99 defence you would expect. Therefore, the costs you suggest are debatable and vary considerably. For one, I use monkfish, say 20 for a difficult task. 20 times 400 is 8k. I find that on an average task, I can make an absolute minimum of 50k. I also think that although you have included the costs of pots, a lot of people i talk to doing slayer do not for some reason pot! How can you expect to get fast xp unpotted? So on this basis, this proves that xp rates are not that important to slayers!

 

 

 

Ok, onto xp. I personally do not train for combat xp, but you may have forgotten that you get the xp of the attk, str or defence on top of the slayer xp. Even if it is broken up due to changing tasks, the xp rate is therefore usually at least reasonable. Also, the low xp rate is a reason why the skillcape is such a well regarded cape!

 

Although it is not particularly difficult as such, it is VERY time consuming! Goes on the saying that the more you put into something, the more you get out of it? In the case of slayer, that can be either the money gained on task (obviously disputed somewhat), or just the enjoyment and satisfaction gained from the cape

 

 

 

Armour and equipment? Don't take things you are not prepared to lose! On this subject, slayer is probablyone of the only profitable skills available, and for people with low income is a way i generally suggest to those wanting money. Maybe not at low levels, but you can not name any skill at a level lower than say 50 that actually gains you cash.

 

 

 

Finally, I have to say your post has addressed most points, and i understand people have different oppinions. Like in other threads, you have the option to play the game as you wish! Games are played primarily for the fun factor, and so how can you criticise how someone wishes to play. For example, the thread owner obviously enjoys seeing his levels rise fast. That is completely reasonable, however, some people are not interested in just xp rates.

 

 

 

Thanks for anyone that read this post, and I hope you feel I have considered both views on the topic.

 

 

 

:thumbsup:

[compfreak847]

287.

 

 

 

Ok, I am new to this, so hello to all!

 

 

 

First of all I would like to talk about the whole abuse of high levels for having a low level on a certain skill, in this instance slayer. There is a reason people have low levels, this usually being not enjoying the skill! This is therefore an absurd case for any argument! If this is the case, you are suggesting a player that is level 138 must have 99 slayer to be a good player? sad really.

 

 

 

I, as a level 131, find slayer to be very safe, as with 99 defence you would expect. Therefore, the costs you suggest are debatable and vary considerably. For one, I use monkfish, say 20 for a difficult task. 20 times 400 is 8k. I find that on an average task, I can make an absolute minimum of 50k. I also think that although you have included the costs of pots, a lot of people i talk to doing slayer do not for some reason pot! How can you expect to get fast xp unpotted? So on this basis, this proves that xp rates are not that important to slayers!

 

 

 

Ok, onto xp. I personally do not train for combat xp, but you may have forgotten that you get the xp of the attk, str or defence on top of the slayer xp. Even if it is broken up due to changing tasks, the xp rate is therefore usually at least reasonable. Also, the low xp rate is a reason why the skillcape is such a well regarded cape!

 

Although it is not particularly difficult as such, it is VERY time consuming! Goes on the saying that the more you put into something, the more you get out of it? In the case of slayer, that can be either the money gained on task (obviously disputed somewhat), or just the enjoyment and satisfaction gained from the cape

 

 

 

Armour and equipment? Don't take things you are not prepared to lose! On this subject, slayer is probablyone of the only profitable skills available, and for people with low income is a way i generally suggest to those wanting money. Maybe not at low levels, but you can not name any skill at a level lower than say 50 that actually gains you cash.

 

 

 

Finally, I have to say your post has addressed most points, and i understand people have different oppinions. Like in other threads, you have the option to play the game as you wish! Games are played primarily for the fun factor, and so how can you criticise how someone wishes to play. For example, the thread owner obviously enjoys seeing his levels rise fast. That is completely reasonable, however, some people are not interested in just xp rates.

 

 

 

Thanks for anyone that read this post, and I hope you feel I have considered both views on the topic.

 

 

 

:thumbsup:

 

I included melee rates in my thread, and you demonstrated what I meant by 75k\hour profit. I'm not sure what you meant by pots though; I've never seen a level 120+ who didn't pot for slayer. So yes, it comes back to the 'having fun at the expense of half the XP and profit".

[SirHartlar]

The enjoyability factor of Slayer will outweigh the fact you can get better exp/cash elsewhere for a lot of people. I see lots of people saying that the variety is nice, so that is probably the deciding factor between what makes it a "good" or "bad" skill.

[Trollface]

I enjoy the variety that slayer provides. Slaying > normal grinding, plus you get bonus exp in two skills.

[ydrasil]

Just to start my post off, the reason I stopped replying before was because the thread was dieing so I just though I might as well let it. I have no intention of going back to debating over every calculation done previously in the post. It was a long while ago and I can't remember most of it. That said, there are some things I want to point out in regards to some of the more recent replies.

 

 

 

Well I've personally made over 150M with Slayer and I'm only 98, so I guess the people that say it's bad must not be very good at it. :P

 

 

 

By the way, grats Langer. :thumbsup:

 

I plan to make 70b from killing chickens for life. The rates are hard, colf, and have been tested. There is no way you could make money faster than normal training.

 

Your response to Lep's post was idiotic. Who said Lep made money faster by using Slayer? What do you consider "normal training"?

 

 

 

I remember reading Lep's Slayer guide (http://forum.tip.it/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=748331) and from this you can see why Lep made so much. Although technically not, it just looks like more money was made. The average money made based on drops for every player is essentially the exact same. The difference is how they choose to train, which cuts into that money, and hence lowering profits. Lep sacrificed a great deal of speed in order to spend as little money as possible. An example is what Lep takes to Abyssal Demons according to the guide; A Slayer Gem, 1 Super set, and 24 Pineapple Pizza. As can be clearly seen, there is very little in the way of speed increase. The time at which an average player being efficient would pot is once every 10 minutes, making a super set only last 40 minutes. In Lep's case, there will be little to no bonus for approximately half of the task depending on the amount to kill. This inventory is the same in most cases also. There are many more reason why the speed is slow, but you get the idea. The profit Lep has made (150mil appararently), would be approximately twice as much as someone who used up money to gain faster experience. The rate at which Lep would be getting experience compared to such a person is unknown, but half would be a decent estimation.

 

 

 

I included melee rates in my thread, and you demonstrated what I meant by 75k\hour profit. I'm not sure what you meant by pots though; I've never seen a level 120+ who didn't pot for slayer. So yes, it comes back to the 'having fun at the expense of half the XP and profit".

 

I don't think you can honestly expect people to read every single reply in this thread, or any thread for that matter which has a large amount of posts. All the information that a responder should need is more often than not on the first post in the thread and the last few pages. This allows them to understand what the thread is about and what the current discussion is at the moment and how their reply should be framed.

 

 

 

There is however a flaw here. The first post in this thread has out-dated information. An example is where it still says Zombie Monkies is only a loss 40k, it was determined pages back this was a great deal higher.

 

 

 

There is something I want to go over just so that everyone else can see without having to search through the thread.

 

 

 

At the moment I am trying to recall the experience gained per hour for Slayer that I stated earlier on in this thread. I believe it was 22.5k Slayer xp/h, 65k melee xp/h, which means it is 12.5k Range xp/h, Therefore 21,666.7 Hitpoints xp/h, and I think the average Summoning experience per hour was calculated to be around 20.25k (since it was a 0.9:1 sum/slay xp ratio). That all adds up to 141.9k Experience per hour. As for Zombie Monkies, that was simply 100k melee xp/h, 33.3k Hitpoints xp/h and 10k experience per hour from a familiar helping. That was an easy 143.3k xp/h. You mentioned a few times that Slayer would be 75k profit per hour. I remember then adding on to that the average money received per task (Slayer points) as being worth about 60k. Since nearly every single task can be completed in under an hour, it would average out to completing more than 1 task per hour. This means it is actually slightly more added on than 60k, but we'll stick with 60k. This brings it up to 135k+ profit per hour on average.

 

 

 

So for one hour of Slayer you get 141.9k overall experience and make 135k.

 

For Zombie Monkies to get that much experience, it would take 59.4 minutes.

 

In that time at Monkies, you would lose 108.9k in supplies and miss out on the 135k from Slayer.

 

This means that because you went for the faster experience over Slayer, you lose out on 243.9k per hour.

 

For Monkies to be more efficient, you have 0.6 minutes to make back that 243.9k.

 

That works out to being the equivalent of 24,967.5k per hour, effectively 25mil per hour.

 

Since it is impossible to average that high per hour, Monkies are not more efficient

 

 

 

 

 

That being shown, there is still the matter of Armoured Zombies. You've stated that they are 100k melee xp per hour and 175k profit per hour. This means overall you would get 133.3k xp/h when you calculate in the Hitpoints. So now, Slayer gets more experience per hour than this method.

 

 

 

One hour of Armoured Zombies gets 133.3k overall experience and 175k profit.

 

For Slayer to get that much experience, it would take 56.4 minutes.

 

In that time at Zombies, you would be losing out on the additional profit gained of 40k per hour.

 

For Slayer to be more efficient, you have 3.6 minutes to make back that 40k.

 

That works out to being the equivalent of 660k required.

 

At making 400k per hour, Slayer supposedly isn't worth it. However really, the difference is minimal, and I am sure more people would hate having to effectively re-train their melee skills to 99 again to get 99 Slayer. Even still, there are some more issues.

 

 

 

Now i'll go through the main reason why this number isn't quite correct. The biggest reason is simply that your rates supplied aren't correct from what I have seen and others have tested. Here are links to 2 guides on these forums for these (I swear there was a 3rd, but could not find it):

 

Armoured Zombies Guide 1

 

Armoured Zombies Guide 2

 

The first guide is pretty bad in the explanation in my opinion however, reading through the replies is quite helpful in getting an idea of many peoples rates. The second guide is quite indepth and includes experience rates and money. From the second guide, the average money per hour is said to be about 145k per hour (not entirely sure if that was money from drops or the profit, I think profit). Also in the second guide, these were the rates provided:

 

Bandos with gear exp per hour (average) 85K

 

Full Void Knight with gear exp per hour (average) 95K (+)

 

Proselyte with gear exp per hour (average) 85K

 

 

 

That obviously doesn't include Hitpoints, and more than likely is without Summoning (I am unsure if your numbers were with or not also). I remember reading a post someone saying it was about 10k Summoning experience per hours worth. That means using void you would get 95k+10k+31.7k = 136.7k per hour. In short, it was a slightly higher experience rate than you gave but lower profit. Not completely sure about the experience rate still as in that thread many people seemed to think it wouldn't be a 10k increase compared to Bandos or Proselyte, also not sure about the Summoning rate. Rather than showing all the steps for the calculations i'll just say what it came out to, which was 272.9k. If you can make over that, Slayer is more efficient.

 

 

 

So for everyone still saying Slayer is bad, well.... that is up to you. However, you can't say the reason for it being bad is because it is inefficient : .

[compfreak847]

The problem with your calculations is that a cannon is STILL not worth using. I believe we have conclusively proven that it is ether not worth using, or of so little effect that it isn't even worth including, in previous posts. In any case, you are NOT going to be making 135k an hour with a cannon - and you can't use it on every task.

[ydrasil]

The problem with your calculations is that a cannon is STILL not worth using. I believe we have conclusively proven that it is ether not worth using, or of so little effect that it isn't even worth including, in previous posts. In any case, you are NOT going to be making 135k an hour with a cannon - and you can't use it on every task.

 

You are being contradictory. You say that you cannot make 135k per hour, if you read my reasoning, those are your numbers. Even more contradictory really, is that your numbers are based off of a lower killing rate. It is hard to explain without examples, so I looked it up. I started at page 15, hit ctrl+f, typed in 75k, and searched through each page. The reason why I did this is because I knew that you were the one who mentioned the 75k profit. Here is what I found:

 

 

 

[hide=Quotes showing proof of what was said]Page 17, Post 8:

 

Accurate average? Already done, 14.9. Accurate profit? Questionable; slayer monsters, due to rarer, more valuable drops then most monsters, have a wildly varying profit. However, I lost money at kalphites (2 hours; they don't have any rare drops), lost money at greater demons (2 hours; rune med helms rare), roughly broke even on dust devils (chain is extremely rare), made a ~80k per hour profit on gargoyles (3 tasks, 2 rare drops - black mystic top and granite maul), lost money on black demons (not sure what there rare drops are; didn't get anything great myself). I would consider a 75k average profit per hour at slayer very lucky.

 

Page 17, Post 9:

 

Now, for some comparisons to Armored Monkies.

 

 

 

Armored Monkeys = 27 crimson charms per hour, 175k profit, 100k melee XP, 33.3k HP XP, 0 Slayer XP per hour

 

Slayer = 41 crimson charms per hour, 75k profit, 59.7k melee XP, 19.9k HP XP, 14.9k Slayer XP per hour.

 

 

 

First of all, what my argument is about - pure combat XP and profit.

 

Armored monkies = 133.3k XP, 175k profit per hour

 

Slayer = 74.6k XP, 75k profit per hour

 

 

 

No argument here - over double the profit, and nearly twice the XP from monkies.

 

 

 

Now, we factor slayer and summoning XP in, using our numbers for crimson XP

 

 

 

Armored monkies = 133.3k XP, 175k profit, 8791 summoning XP

 

Slayer = 94.5k XP, 75k profit, 13,285 summoning XP (Taken from Qeltar's charm drop rates)

 

Page 17, Post 12:

 

Without a time reference, profit rates cannot be determined - if it took you 20 hours to achive those 1.5m in drops, that really doesn't mean anything. Nechs are only furthering my point; a 1 hour task giving a 60k pair of rune boots plus other drops making up for prayer pots aren't going to get you 150k per hour. Spirit mages are a good example; they represent the fastest possible money earning rates with Slayer, even suppassing abyssal demons. All those drops do add up; but they do so fairly slowly, rendering my number of 75k fairly accurate. Generally speaking, I've averaged much less then that in my last 70 tasks, but I don't have hard numbers for each task.

 

Page 17, Post 12:

 

My numbers of 60k contradict his 70k; however, mine have been obtained by careful, documented testing, and Qeltar's rates. His vague description leaves much to doubt - such as that he might be getting 15% lower XP. Do you realize how little attention most RS players pay to XP and profit rates? I've head level 90s talk about how they average 400k per hour because of all the half keys they get. Admittedly, cardj is a high slayer level - almost the same as Qeltars, with slightly higher slayer\lower combat stats. Not that it matters.

 

 

 

Slayer = 75k profit, X XP\hr

 

Zombies = 175k profit, 133.3k XP\hr

 

 

The next one is a reply I made to you at one point. You then replied to it, and agreed with it.

 

Page 18, Post 3:

 

So you say the average is 75k from tasks due to drops and such. In that case it is actually at least 57k higher than that. You must also remember that you receive on average 24 points for finishing every task. Those 24 points are worth just over 57k. Since nearly every task takes under an hour to complete, you will get at the very least an extra 60k. That is 135k. Zarfot has a log of the amount of different tasks he received for 5.4m experince after getting to 26.8mil. Assuming he continued to average 26k experience (which is more than likely, as with his methods involving a Steel Titan he has gotten even faster), it would have taken about 207.7 hours. He completed 297 tasks in the time. That is one task every 42 minutes. That means on average due to buying those packs of runes he got an additional 81.6k per hour on top of whatever drops he may have received. This is why your rate of 50k profit per hour was always perceived as too low. I mentioned this during my first few posts on this thread I believe also. The points do help for another 60k, a very good point. I've already talked about Zarfot's rates.

 

Page 21, Post 13:

 

I included melee rates in my thread, and you demonstrated what I meant by 75k\hour profit. I'm not sure what you meant by pots though; I've never seen a level 120+ who didn't pot for slayer. So yes, it comes back to the 'having fun at the expense of half the XP and profit".

[/hide]

 

In all the quotes most of it isn't about the profit. However in each quote, you specifically mention the rate being 75k per hour. If you look at the 2nd last quote I supplied, you and everyone else can see that you agreed that the rate gets at least a 60k increase on top of the 75k. That is a 135k profit per hour being made. Using Zarfot's rate at which he gained experience and how many tasks, he was averaging approximately a bit over 80k. That brings the profit up to 155k.

 

 

 

So all that is left, is your belief a cannon is not worth using. While I do not wish to redo the calculations again, I will post the results that were gotten from using Qeltar's rates.

 

 

 

Kalphites - Taken from page 15

 

If you make over 298k per hour, a cannon is worth using.

 

 

 

Aberrant Spectres - Taken from page 15

 

If you make over 393k per hour, a cannon is worth using.

 

 

 

Skeletal Wyverns - Taken from page 15

 

If you make over 431k per hour, a cannon is worth using.

 

 

 

Level 90 Dagannoths in Waterbirth Dungeon - Taken from page 15, but altered to exclude the mistake

 

If you make over 406k per hour, a cannon is worth using.

 

 

 

Bloodvelds - Taken from page 15

 

If you make over 169k per hour, a cannon is worth using.

 

 

 

Those are all the ones I could be bothered to find. In every case, a value was never placed on the Range experience gained from the cannon. If that were to be calculated in, the amount needing to be made would be lower. Also, you would save money on supplies because the task would be completed quicker. I found out that it was about 19k saved on Skeletal Wyverns, which brings it down to 412k being needed. Due to money saved on supplies only 364,251 is needed for a cannon to be worth using on Aberrant Spectres. 382,379 is needed for the Dagannoths, 136,945 is needed for the Bloodvelds. So in every case there, a cannon was worth using, except for maybe the Wyverns. The value of Range experience may bring it under 400k, it may not, that is dependant on the player, and cannot be calculated. In short, it is personal preference for Wyverns.

 

 

 

Also just to cover something else. You compared using a Whip with a cannon, to Dharoks and no cannon. These cannot be compared to determine if a cannon is efficient to be used on Bloodvelds, a point which you seemed unwilling to accept. The only way to determine this is for the only difference in the tests to be the use of a cannon or not. Otherwise you bring in another factor that affects kill rate, which makes the comparison invalid. Even still, you worked it out to being 350k approximately being required. This amount is lowered also due to the money saved on supplies.

[compfreak847]

The 75k was WITHOUT a cannon. With one you will lose a significant amount; a cannon costs FAR more then either the increased drops or 135k\hour can cover. Case in point: I did some speed slaying for 83 slayer; approx. 100 tasks done as fast as I could, using a cannon on most, and praying piety for tasks with high HP. Intresting results: My melee rate for tasks like specters went down, a LOT. They were too spread out, with too many drops, to efficiently melee them while using my cannon. Kalphites really wern't that much faster XP; all of the full worlds were usually taken, and when I did get one, I killed them much faster then they respawned. My end numbers: I averaged just under 20k slayer XP, a little over 60k melee XP, and around 10k range XP\hour. My end results: Around a 5 mill loss, including buying slayer dart runes with points.

 

 

 

Your cannon numbers are yours, from page 15, that I already disupted and shown all of them to be over 400k, except for bloodvields at 360k. 360k means that for every hour you would spend meleeing, the time spent cannoning + making the money back would be close to 54 minutes, leaving us with only a 9% time saving for a single task. I still haven't seen your whip with cannon numbers, so I can't comment on those.

 

 

 

Also, some side notes: First of all, slayer with melee is 11k summoning XP\hour, not 20.5k. 2nd, Zombies are 8-9k summoning XP in and of themselves. 3rd, now that I have refined my methods and upgraded to better equipment at zombies, I am now getting closer to 104k XP\hour.

[ultimatballr]

 

There is something I want to go over just so that everyone else can see . You mentioned a few times that Slayer would be 75k profit per hour. I remember then adding on to that the average money received per task (Slayer points) as being worth about 60k. Since nearly every single task can be completed in under an hour, it would average out to completing more than 1 task per hour. This means it is actually slightly more added on than 60k, but we'll stick with 60k. This brings it up to 135k+ profit per hour on average

 

 

 

 

 

Now I read your entire post, and I still cannot understand where you are getting 135k profit per hour. There is no way that you are completing 2-3 tasks in an hour, at least I don't believe so. Maybe I am just inefficient but I take at around an hour and a half to do 180+ bloodvelds, and that is WITH potting, no praying though. So how is adding 60k to the already a fore mentioned 75k even plausible?

 

 

 

Maybe I am just soo oblivious to what everyone else does when slaying, however, I doubt it. I do believe cannons speed up dagg and kalphite tasks at LEAST by double the amount, but I am yet to see anyone use a cannon at bloodvelds, Abby Specs and Wyverns, in-fact I am yet to see a cannon anywhere but kalphites and daggs.. and I do not believe the profit made back is enough to pay for the cannon, nor for the 2x or 3x more you would of spent without one.

 

 

 

I just don't see it.

[compfreak847]

 

There is something I want to go over just so that everyone else can see . You mentioned a few times that Slayer would be 75k profit per hour. I remember then adding on to that the average money received per task (Slayer points) as being worth about 60k. Since nearly every single task can be completed in under an hour, it would average out to completing more than 1 task per hour. This means it is actually slightly more added on than 60k, but we'll stick with 60k. This brings it up to 135k+ profit per hour on average

 

 

 

 

 

Now I read your entire post, and I still cannot understand where you are getting 135k profit per hour. There is no way that you are completing 2-3 tasks in an hour, at least I don't believe so. Maybe I am just inefficient but I take at around an hour and a half to do 180+ bloodvelds, and that is WITH potting, no praying though. So how is adding 60k to the already a fore mentioned 75k even plausible?

 

 

 

Maybe I am just soo oblivious to what everyone else does when slaying, however, I doubt it. I do believe cannons speed up dagg and kalphite tasks at LEAST by double the amount, but I am yet to see anyone use a cannon at bloodvelds, Abby Specs and Wyverns, in-fact I am yet to see a cannon anywhere but kalphites and daggs.. and I do not believe the profit made back is enough to pay for the cannon, nor for the 2x or 3x more you would of spent without one.

 

 

 

I just don't see it.

 

Mutated bloodvields can be cannoned, but I spend 400k+ on cannonballs for 1 task, plus prayer pots, and I get maybe ~30k in drops.

[Smavey]

Cool thread - i like your opinion.

 

 

 

Anyway this is why I think slayer is awesome.

 

 

 

It's varied (well at least for a noob like me who doesen't go to duradel who gives only 4 tasks).

 

 

 

The way I train all my skills is by training it in the most varied way possible, even if it's not the fastests or cheapest . (i.e. to train smithing i usually make some mith hastas for a level, and then maybe iron plates for another, and then maybe mith plates and alch) it varies up leveling and it's nice to see a change.

 

 

 

That's why ( a player like me) will be caught dead before killing monkeys....zzz they drop nothing!! I'd rather do slayer, level slower, but have a less dull time. maybe do some clues and train up my summoning.

 

 

 

Same goes to fishing in shilo and other powerleveling methods....zzzz!

[ydrasil]

The 75k was WITHOUT a cannon. With one you will lose a significant amount; a cannon costs FAR more then either the increased drops or 135k\hour can cover. Case in point: I did some speed slaying for 83 slayer; approx. 100 tasks done as fast as I could, using a cannon on most, and praying piety for tasks with high HP. Intresting results: My melee rate for tasks like specters went down, a LOT. They were too spread out, with too many drops, to efficiently melee them while using my cannon. Kalphites really wern't that much faster XP; all of the full worlds were usually taken, and when I did get one, I killed them much faster then they respawned. My end numbers: I averaged just under 20k slayer XP, a little over 60k melee XP, and around 10k range XP\hour. My end results: Around a 5 mill loss, including buying slayer dart runes with points.

 

It is hard to compare, as there is also something you are forgetting. By using the cannon (for now, exclude the cost of the cannonballs), on the same task, you are expected to receive the exact same sort of drops. The only difference is that it is gained in a shorter time frame. This increases the profit per hour over 75k. Since it also speeds up tasks, it also increases the rate at which you make money from the Slayer points. If you look in the hide in my previous post, the second quote provided is what i'll be referring to. You said; "Slayer = 41 crimson charms per hour, 75k profit, 59.7k melee XP, 19.9k HP XP, 14.9k Slayer XP per hour." That 75k profit (as well as other rates) was based on a 14.9k Slayer xp/h. Keeping to that ratio, if you got up to 22.5k Slayer xp/h, the profit would be 113.3k per hour.

 

 

 

You say you could not efficiently melee them while using a cannon at Aberrant Spectres. The idea of being efficient is not to be efficient in just one area and excluding the rest. Doing so makes it so that you actually aren't being efficient. Hence the idea isn't just to efficiently melee, but simply kill. While melee is a part of that, so is the cannon. By saying that they are spread it is being biased in this case. Would they not be just as spread out were you to simply melee them?

 

 

 

Your cannon numbers are yours, from page 15, that I already disupted and shown all of them to be over 400k, except for bloodvields at 360k. 360k means that for every hour you would spend meleeing, the time spent cannoning + making the money back would be close to 54 minutes, leaving us with only a 9% time saving for a single task. I still haven't seen your whip with cannon numbers, so I can't comment on those.

 

The cannon numbers, while worked out by me, they are not mine. Those were worked out using the rates supplied by Qeltar only. Also, while I was looking through the replies yesterday searching for those quotes I did notice something. While you did argue that the rates were wrong, you never actually showed were there was a mistake. An example was from the Kalphites. It had been per hour you use about 1530 cannonballs at a cost of 290k. Doing 182(?) of them took less time, and hence used less cannonballs. That means the cost of using the cannon on this task was not 290k. Yet you argued that the rate was over 400k, at around 600k, because you thought it still cost 290k to complete the task. So that is one case were you argued by your misunderstanding.

 

 

 

I explained again above why the rate you got for Bloodvelds was not to be used. If you want to work out the difference between a Cannon (called C for now) and no Cannon on a task, you cannot compare W + C to D + 0C (I added a 0 in front of the second C to show that no cannon was used). You are bringing in another variable that cannot be accounted for and hence your rate received was invalid. I'm not sure how I can make this any clearer. For you to compare it with Dharoks, Dharoks would also have to of been used on the test with a cannon. According to Qeltar it was 55 more kills per hour with Dharoks. That means at a rough estimation, the kill count for Dharoks with a cannon comapred to Whip and cannon should be about 55 kills higher. Since it would slow you down by a bit to use cannon, i'll assume it is 50 kills. That makes it 162 kills without cannon and 362 with. This means it is approximately 262k per hour for a cannon to be worth using.

 

 

 

Also, some side notes: First of all, slayer with melee is 11k summoning XP\hour, not 20.5k. 2nd, Zombies are 8-9k summoning XP in and of themselves. 3rd, now that I have refined my methods and upgraded to better equipment at zombies, I am now getting closer to 104k XP\hour.

 

Obviously that is not true. The ratio of Summoning:Slayer experience at 11k per hour would be 0.74:1. Yet you specifically said earlier on the ratio was 0.89:1. This is further shown by referring to the second quote in my hade tag in my previous post. "Slayer = 41 crimson charms per hour, 75k profit, 59.7k melee XP, 19.9k HP XP, 14.9k Slayer XP per hour." 41 crimson charms gives about 14,350 Summoning experience (average 350 each). So by your own words it contradicts you. Also using that same ratio, for 22.5k Slayer xp, that makes the Summoning experience 21.7k per hour. Yet also notice, that your ratio used is 0.96:1.

 

 

 

 

There is something I want to go over just so that everyone else can see . You mentioned a few times that Slayer would be 75k profit per hour. I remember then adding on to that the average money received per task (Slayer points) as being worth about 60k. Since nearly every single task can be completed in under an hour, it would average out to completing more than 1 task per hour. This means it is actually slightly more added on than 60k, but we'll stick with 60k. This brings it up to 135k+ profit per hour on average

 

 

 

 

 

Now I read your entire post, and I still cannot understand where you are getting 135k profit per hour. There is no way that you are completing 2-3 tasks in an hour, at least I don't believe so. Maybe I am just inefficient but I take at around an hour and a half to do 180+ bloodvelds, and that is WITH potting, no praying though. So how is adding 60k to the already a fore mentioned 75k even plausible?

 

 

 

Maybe I am just soo oblivious to what everyone else does when slaying, however, I doubt it. I do believe cannons speed up dagg and kalphite tasks at LEAST by double the amount, but I am yet to see anyone use a cannon at bloodvelds, Abby Specs and Wyverns, in-fact I am yet to see a cannon anywhere but kalphites and daggs.. and I do not believe the profit made back is enough to pay for the cannon, nor for the 2x or 3x more you would of spent without one.

 

 

 

I just don't see it.

 

I find it hard to believe you read my entire post and then came to that conclusion. Your response quite clearly dictates your misinterpretation. The 75k profit came from what you were making per hour from the drops received, and nothing else. The extra 60k came from the Slayer points. That number was based on completing one task per hour, not 2 or 3. However, my point was that since nearly every task can be completed in under an hour (exceptions include Abyssal Demons, Black Demons, Dark Beasts, Skeletal Wyverns, Waterfiends and maybe more, but I can't think of them off the top of my head - all of these are dependant on task number also and won't always take over an hour) the rate was actually higher than 60k per hour. Even though it is guaranteed to be higher, I can't be certain to what extent. That is why adding 60k to the 75k is plausible.

 

 

 

You have made another slight mistake. The cannon isn't being repaid solely on drops. It is being repaid due to how fast the task is being completed compared to without. Like at Kalphites, you kill them at approximately twice the rate as you would without a cannon. Now because you saved that time, some of that time can then be used to repay what the cannon cost. It requires the player to be able to make above a certain amount of money for it to be more efficient, for Kalphites if you make over 290k per hour, a cannon is worth using. Hopefully that cleared up why a cannon is used.

 

 

 

Mutated bloodvields can be cannoned, but I spend 400k+ on cannonballs for 1 task, plus prayer pots, and I get maybe ~30k in drops.

 

No need to exaggerate. At current prices 400k is 2,174 cannonballs. For a task that takes well under an hour that makes your number incredibly unlikely. Can be assigned 130-199, the median is 164.5. At the average experience of 186 to Slayer for Bloodvelds, that is 30,597 experience per task. 2,174 cannonballs at average experience of 25 per cannonball is 54,350 experience - 27,175 damage. That measn to use up that amount per task, that per task you would only do 3,422 damage with melee which is only 13,688 melee experience. That quite clearly shows you do not not spend 400k let alone more than that per task of Bloodvelds.

[compfreak847]

Comparisons are obvious; a cannon will result in losing money, not making 135k. There is simply no way to achieve that while using a cannon. A cannon costs MUCH more then 113.3k per hour. What I was referring to with Aberrant Specters was #1 running around picking up the spread out drops, and #2 the fast kills; frequently I only got a couple of whip hits in before the specter died. I was eventually forced to use range, as melee was wasting my run energy and time. No, your numbers were based on flawed rates and inaccurate calculations. The cannon debate went on for much longer then page 15. We already established that bloodvield rates needed to be tested, as Qeltars were not lining up. You said you were willing to test them, then disappeared. Now your coming back and trying to support them. To be specific, .89 to 1 would make for 13.2k melee XP, not 11, but my melee XP was slightly less then 14.9 for summoning. You are claiming that cannon times include the time to earn the money; yet your XP rates show no sign of this. Lastlyo, for blodvields, I only had around 6 tasks, most of which were closer to 200 then 150, increasing my melee XP.

[Johannas]

In my opinion slayer offers a nice variation in monster hunted to assess all your skills, personally it challenges me to train all combat skills.

 

 

 

Drops are decent, monsters are well varied and require different attack styles/armour to kill them efficiently.

 

The black mask is a big incentive, so is the new reward system.

 

 

 

It's a nice change from skilling, and because it doesn't get boring (like no lifeing at armoured zombies or monkey guards) most people like it