Slayer Sucks

[mmmchips1]

287

 

I couldn't be bothered reading people replies so I don't know if this has been covered, but I'll voice my opinions anyway.

 

 

 

Firstly I'd like to disagree on your view that slayer is a bad way to make money. Yes, the odds of getting good drops like whips, d bows, d boots etc is low enough that you would make more money by training at the monkeys for the equivalent amount of XP then spend the rest of the time making money in the usual way. However, you're not taking into account the drops that people don't talk about, the more command and less valuabale drops. For example, by training slayer you will get a lot of mystic and rune drops, and plenty of runes and herbs/seeds. The other thing that you don't take into account is the vast amount of charms that build up in your bank after training slayer for a few days. Albiet charms are worthless in monetary terms, but because you have to gather them yourself it gives them an a value worth more than money.

 

 

 

I agree with you that slayer xp for ranged is terrible, but slayer was always really made for melee. However, xp in general isn't too bad. Sure you get less xp for melee than you would training at monekys, but the fact that you train 3 skills at once makes it worthwhile imo. Also, if you like skilling in runescape, then you can enjoy slayer for the extra total levels.

 

 

 

The other point is about fun, and like you say it's a matter of opinion. I personally think that training slayer is more fun than training at monkeys, because I enjoy the variety in training as opposed to training on one thing constantly.

 

 

 

In conclusion, I'd like to say that I enjoy slayer a lot and I do most of my training through it, but if you want to train effecient way (for example you want to achieve some sort of combat goal quickly) then monkeys is much better.

[compfreak847]

287

 

I couldn't be bothered reading people replies so I don't know if this has been covered, but I'll voice my opinions anyway.

 

 

 

Firstly I'd like to disagree on your view that slayer is a bad way to make money. Yes, the odds of getting good drops like whips, d bows, d boots etc is low enough that you would make more money by training at the monkeys for the equivalent amount of XP then spend the rest of the time making money in the usual way. However, you're not taking into account the drops that people don't talk about, the more command and less valuabale drops. For example, by training slayer you will get a lot of mystic and rune drops, and plenty of runes and herbs/seeds. The other thing that you don't take into account is the vast amount of charms that build up in your bank after training slayer for a few days. Albiet charms are worthless in monetary terms, but because you have to gather them yourself it gives them an a value worth more than money.

 

 

 

I agree with you that slayer xp for ranged is terrible, but slayer was always really made for melee. However, xp in general isn't too bad. Sure you get less xp for melee than you would training at monekys, but the fact that you train 3 skills at once makes it worthwhile imo. Also, if you like skilling in runescape, then you can enjoy slayer for the extra total levels.

 

 

 

The other point is about fun, and like you say it's a matter of opinion. I personally think that training slayer is more fun than training at monkeys, because I enjoy the variety in training as opposed to training on one thing constantly.

 

 

 

In conclusion, I'd like to say that I enjoy slayer a lot and I do most of my training through it, but if you want to train effecient way (for example you want to achieve some sort of combat goal quickly) then monkeys is much better.

 

Taken into account; all drops are included. While my figures are arguable, they would have to be impossibly high for slayer to be a good way to train combat, unless you enjoy it.

[ydrasil]

It can't just be that. His rates are well over double qeltars, even adjusted for slayer, and that's not counting banking. His runecrafting guide numbers were a bit more in line, at least I got within half a dozen seconds of his. But 160k XP per hour with slayer is insane.

 

You still aren't understanding this at all. I don't see where you get "even adjusted for slayer". There are so many things that can be done to speed up tasks. Equipment, cannon (and even if Qeltar used a cannon sometimes, was it in the best spot?), using stat enhancing prayers, was he paying attention and moving between kills as fast as he can? Did he pick up drops without slowing down attack speed? Did he eat or pot whilst attacking so as to provide little to no less in spped (little lost with food, none for pots)?

 

 

 

Or, possibly, when no other high level player I've ever seen is able to get ANYWHERE close to them, he's lying, exaggerating, or some sort of runescape hacker :?

 

Umm right. Didn't I just say while I don't get his rates I do get close? What possible benefit could he have to lie about it or exaggerate, and you can't hack Runescape. He just aims to give you a guide about the most efficient ways to train (same as his other two guides). Although I don't think you believe he is lting either, but since you can't attain his rates, you try to discredit him.

 

 

 

Karils is better with slayer helmet, Void is better without. Not sure what you mean about the 'prayer drains slower with karils', because karils top and bottom, barrows gloves, and slayer helm all have no prayer bonus. I very rarely have to pray with void, and with piety get about 5% more kills, or 5 kills worth, more per hour. Don't even try to argue with me about Fiends; I have done a considerable amount of testing there, and I know my numbers are correct. So any fiddle-faddle about 144 crimsons per hour with +10% strength pray will be ignored.

 

So by your first sentence we see that you only ever use Void when it isn't for Slayer correct? If you aren't doing Slayer and are wearing Karils, are you still going to wear the Slayer Helmet... I think not. That extra +3 prayer bonus comes from the Helm of Neitiznot. Fiddle-faddle? Keep in mind (which in every case i've shown you cease to see), that it isn't 144 crimsons. It is the equivalent of 144 crimsons. Tell me, how much testing have you done while actually on Slayer using the Slayer Helmet?

 

 

 

Like I said, it's for one task, and they aren't much more spread out in the slayer tower - if you attack the next one as the one you hit starts its death animation, you waste very little time. if your banking with eating, it's much slower. The +2 prayer bonus has very little effect on XP rate. All of our numbers so far have been without summons; you stated that this was because you took BOBs instead anyway. You can't just switch to summons now; even Zarfot's numbers don't have them. The +4 strength bonus is irrelevant, I didn't use it at zombies so my rates would jump just as much.

 

Actually, that was for many tasks. His tests for Nechryaels was in the Slayer Tower. Also much more spread out and single combat. Again you missed something very important. I said this only in the case of Gargoyles due to their closeness. I said that if need be it would be faster than Guthans.... but I also said that in most cases you would never run out of food anyway. When did I state that I take BOBs anyway? I remember saying that on the Dust Devils one I think that the rate was without a combat familiar. I also said that if you needed more room for food you could take a BOB, that was the only time I have ever mentioned them. Zarfot in some cases also said how much experience he gets with a summon included, so yes, there is rates for those also. The +4 strength bonus isn't just irrelevant because you don't use it at one.

 

 

 

Also by the way i'm just curious, at Zombie Monkies do you use piety or what other stat enhancing prayer?

 

 

 

Very true, I did say that. You will also notice that he had over 100 kills for virtually all of his monsters, and generally quite a few more. Not spot on accurate, but it's not going to give any massivly skewed results.

 

Between 100-200 isn't "HUNDREDS of kills". But would you not say that thousands is more accurate over the long run.... you know... like what Zarfot's are based on.

 

 

 

I could say the exact same thing about Qeltar's testing; he happens to be 92 slayer, which although isn't as high as Zarfot's, at least let you know he has an idea of the XP of tasks. I find it unusual that no other person has ever gotten anything close to Zarfot's numbers. My numbers come from Qeltar's, not being made up. We've made adjustments for all of those 'effects' - His methods of kills are just as fast for virtually ever task, +10% strength would boost XP at most by 5% (factored in), and his equipment was the same as mine at zombies. Just because someone isn't using a fire cape doesn't make his equipment complete garbage. Not that it matters; I didn't use a fire cape either at zombies, which we are using for comparison. As for the last part, how about the subtraction for thousands of cannon balls, 5,000 prayer pots (40 million for them alone), pots, armor etc.? There is no way he is making 160k an hour WHILE using cannon AND piety; that would be the equivalent of nearly 400k an hour without piety and a cannon.

 

Just because someone has 92 Slayer doesn't mean they instantly are being most efficient with their tasks. Also you need to stop saying no-one else gets near Zarfot's rates, they do, but you just seem to ignore that.

 

 

 

Now I thought we were going to come back to this. While Qeltar may be trusted to perform tests. You are certainly not trusted to come to conclusions about them. You mentioned that from Qeltars numbers you got 47.2k xp/h. Well that alone shows you can't be trusted. I put the amount of kills he got in an hour (The ones without Black Mask/Slayer Helmet), as well as the Hitpoints of the monster into a spreadsheet. Added a formula and found out the experience (for Slayer), he would get per task. I then found the average. The average was 14,887 experience per hour. If you multiply that by 4 you get 59,548 experience per hour. Keep in mind that is with no stat enhancing prayers, no Slayer Helmet, and not always using the most efficient methods. Amazing how again you say Qeltars results wouldn't be skewed, but you made sure they were. Also note that all the rates I took were without a cannon except for on Kalphites, Aberrant Spectres (for this one I don't know if he was on Slayer or not, I think not since he was wearing a Salve ammy (e) also) and Skeletal Wyverns.

 

 

 

Also I never said that because he wasn't wearing a Fire Cape that his equipment was complete garbage... you could try and find a quote where I did say that, but that would be impossible. Equipment is also not just limited to the cape slot (amazing I know). As for your subtraction... well lets see. Armour... doesn't cost anything technically. Zarfot either wears proselyte or Bandos armour I believe. Since anyone could buy the armour and resell after their done, it doesn't really have a cost. Pots might add up to about 5mil. 5,000 Prayer pots is about 37.5mil and the cannonballs, I don't know how many he used. Put simply as mmmchips1 said, there are other drops than Whips, Dark Bows, and Dragon Boots. Rune items over time will add up to over 10mil. Special drops like Mauls and Mystic will add up. Herbs add up, as do seeds. Then things like half keys, dragon drops and all these other alchable drops will add up.

 

 

 

Put simply, that was indeed the overall experience rate he got per hour on average as well as the profit. I don't see how you can argue that with only 76 Slayer either. You are just past 1/13th of the way through the skill so of course you haven't gotten alot of drops yet.

[Inuashakent]

What does 287 mean...?

[compfreak847]

It can't just be that. His rates are well over double qeltars, even adjusted for slayer, and that's not counting banking. His runecrafting guide numbers were a bit more in line, at least I got within half a dozen seconds of his. But 160k XP per hour with slayer is insane.

 

You still aren't understanding this at all. I don't see where you get "even adjusted for slayer". There are so many things that can be done to speed up tasks. Equipment, cannon (and even if Qeltar used a cannon sometimes, was it in the best spot?), using stat enhancing prayers, was he paying attention and moving between kills as fast as he can? Did he pick up drops without slowing down attack speed? Did he eat or pot whilst attacking so as to provide little to no less in spped (little lost with food, none for pots)?

 

There really aren't many things. His equipment was just fine; the only improvements could have been slayer mask\bandos. Slayer mask is easy to adjust for; considering that our method uses prayer, we will be using proslyte\verac's skirt anyway - not including prayer (also easily adjusted for), it would actually slow kills down due to the need for increased eating. He also happens to be 92 slayer, and as such no doubt is more efficient then the average high level slayer - he, too, is big on efficiency, though not as much as Zarfot.

 

 

 

Or, possibly, when no other high level player I've ever seen is able to get ANYWHERE close to them, he's lying, exaggerating, or some sort of runescape hacker :?

 

Umm right. Didn't I just say while I don't get his rates I do get close? What possible benefit could he have to lie about it or exaggerate, and you can't hack Runescape. He just aims to give you a guide about the most efficient ways to train (same as his other two guides). Although I don't think you believe he is lting either, but since you can't attain his rates, you try to discredit him. The same reason everyone lies about stuff on the internet - he's become quite famous due to his 'high rates'. No, really? I thought you could download hacks... A little sarcasm can help the mood every now and then :-# You said you got the same rates for 18 dust devil kills; I haven't seen anything else remotely resembling proof, besides your (supposedly timed) killing of dust devils. There really isn't magic to attaining high rates; I'm in constant combat at Zombies, with ZERO time due to eating or potting, and a maximum of ~10 seconds lost every 10 minutes to run back and forth, CONTINUOUSLY hitting with a whip with a better bonus then slayer helm (Salve ammy (e) and piety (+23% strength, vs. your +10%, not to mention +20% to attack), and I'm STILL getting SIGNIFICANTLY less then you, with lower stats, claim to be getting at dust devils. Explain where the error is? I'm in combat more continuously then you; constant aggressiveness means that I'm always attacking, save for the 10 second run a screen away and back to make them aggressive again. And yet you claim you can bank, get an assignment, set up invo and outfit, and kill dust devils for 40 minutes, altogether getting much better time then my continuously killing monkies? There is no room for error; the only time when I am not CONTINUOUSLY hitting with whip is the short run there and back to make them aggressive. I don't even count those seconds in my timing; they would make for approx 1.5k XP less; the rest of the time is nonstop combat with better equipment, stats (potting every 5 minutes vs. your 10), and much better prayer (+23% strength and +20% attack vs. +10% strength), without the need for food, healing, or banking of any sort. Explain how your getting 5-10k XP per hour better then me?

 

 

 

Karils is better with slayer helmet, Void is better without. Not sure what you mean about the 'prayer drains slower with karils', because karils top and bottom, barrows gloves, and slayer helm all have no prayer bonus. I very rarely have to pray with void, and with piety get about 5% more kills, or 5 kills worth, more per hour. Don't even try to argue with me about Fiends; I have done a considerable amount of testing there, and I know my numbers are correct. So any fiddle-faddle about 144 crimsons per hour with +10% strength pray will be ignored.

 

So by your first sentence we see that you only ever use Void when it isn't for Slayer correct? If you aren't doing Slayer and are wearing Karils, are you still going to wear the Slayer Helmet... I think not. That extra +3 prayer bonus comes from the Helm of Neitiznot. Fiddle-faddle? Keep in mind (which in every case i've shown you cease to see), that it isn't 144 crimsons. It is the equivalent of 144 crimsons. Tell me, how much testing have you done while actually on Slayer using the Slayer Helmet? Very little, it delivers approx. 8% faster kills - which is nearly canceled out by the time required to tele to slayer master get an assignment, bank, setup up invo\outfit, get there, and begin slaying. The remaining XP, if anything, would be less then the effect of Void. If your using slayer helm, there is no bonus for Nezinot. Equilvilant? I get the equivalent of 105 crimsons per hour, not banking - and I'm going fast, with very few delays whatsoever. Oh, and piety again, not +10% strength.

 

 

 

Like I said, it's for one task, and they aren't much more spread out in the slayer tower - if you attack the next one as the one you hit starts its death animation, you waste very little time. if your banking with eating, it's much slower. The +2 prayer bonus has very little effect on XP rate. All of our numbers so far have been without summons; you stated that this was because you took BOBs instead anyway. You can't just switch to summons now; even Zarfot's numbers don't have them. The +4 strength bonus is irrelevant, I didn't use it at zombies so my rates would jump just as much.

 

Actually, that was for many tasks. His tests for Nechryaels was in the Slayer Tower. Also much more spread out and single combat. Again you missed something very important. I said this only in the case of Gargoyles due to their closeness. I said that if need be it would be faster than Guthans.... but I also said that in most cases you would never run out of food anyway. When did I state that I take BOBs anyway? I remember saying that on the Dust Devils one I think that the rate was without a combat familiar. I also said that if you needed more room for food you could take a BOB, that was the only time I have ever mentioned them. Zarfot in some cases also said how much experience he gets with a summon included, so yes, there is rates for those also. The +4 strength bonus isn't just irrelevant because you don't use it at one.

 

 

 

Also by the way i'm just curious, at Zombie Monkies do you use piety or what other stat enhancing prayer? I use piety, as has been stated several times before. You commented on your use of BOBs several time, such as saying that you didn't need alching runes because between your inventory and BOB you had plenty of space for drops. The +4 strength IS irrelevant; we are comparing slayer results to my results for zombie monkies. If it makes you happy, we can tack on an extra 500 XP per hour because of fire cape, but you should boost my XP by 700, making things (insignificantly) worse for slayer.

 

 

 

Very true, I did say that. You will also notice that he had over 100 kills for virtually all of his monsters, and generally quite a few more. Not spot on accurate, but it's not going to give any massivly skewed results.

 

Between 100-200 isn't "HUNDREDS of kills". But would you not say that thousands is more accurate over the long run.... you know... like what Zarfot's are based on. Yes, more accurate. Not going to make a large difference, though; especially considering that we have roughly 32 hours for all of the combined slayer monsters. Any high or low variations should pretty much cancel themselves out in that much time; I consider 32 hours (and around 4,000 kills) enough for fairly accurate results.

 

 

 

I could say the exact same thing about Qeltar's testing; he happens to be 92 slayer, which although isn't as high as Zarfot's, at least let you know he has an idea of the XP of tasks. I find it unusual that no other person has ever gotten anything close to Zarfot's numbers. My numbers come from Qeltar's, not being made up. We've made adjustments for all of those 'effects' - His methods of kills are just as fast for virtually ever task, +10% strength would boost XP at most by 5% (factored in), and his equipment was the same as mine at zombies. Just because someone isn't using a fire cape doesn't make his equipment complete garbage. Not that it matters; I didn't use a fire cape either at zombies, which we are using for comparison. As for the last part, how about the subtraction for thousands of cannon balls, 5,000 prayer pots (40 million for them alone), pots, armor etc.? There is no way he is making 160k an hour WHILE using cannon AND piety; that would be the equivalent of nearly 400k an hour without piety and a cannon.

 

Just because someone has 92 Slayer doesn't mean they instantly are being most efficient with their tasks. Also you need to stop saying no-one else gets near Zarfot's rates, they do, but you just seem to ignore that. Pardon me, who? I haven't seen anyone that says they get anywhere close to them, besides your comprehensive 18 dust devil test, including Inushakent.

 

Impossibly hard to obtain rates? Yes.

 

 

 

His rates are insanely high, and only a robot can obtain them. Seriously, almost NOBODY can do what he does, it's a bit creepy if you ask me.

 

Creepy, yes. Impossibly hard to obtain, yes. Exaggerations? Probably... I'd also like to point out that Inuashakent even stated that Zarfot had a tendancy to exaggerate, and he (Inuashakent) has fairly methodical testing AND supports slayer

 

 

 

Now I thought we were going to come back to this. While Qeltar may be trusted to perform tests. You are certainly not trusted to come to conclusions about them. You mentioned that from Qeltars numbers you got 47.2k xp/h. Well that alone shows you can't be trusted. I put the amount of kills he got in an hour (The ones without Black Mask/Slayer Helmet), as well as the Hitpoints of the monster intoence per hour. If you multiply that by 4 you get 59,548 experience per hour. Keep in mind that is with no stat enhancing prayers, no Slayer Helmet, and not lways using the most efficient methods. Amazing how again you say Qeltars results wouldn't be skewed, but you made sure they were. Also note that all tha spreadsheet. Added a formula and found out the experience (for Slayer), he would get per task. I then found the average. The average was 14,887 experiae rates I took were without a cannon except for on Kalphites, Aberrant Spectres (for this one I don't know if he was on Slayer or not, I think not since he was wearing a Salve ammy (e) also) and Skeletal Wyverns.

 

 

 

Generally, when one wears a Salve ammy (e), one is not receiving a bonus from a slayer helment. On the tasks which he was wearing either a slayer helm (3-4 of them, I believe), or a salve ammy, I did not increase the statistics based on our 'slayer helmet' numbers.

 

 

 

Also I never said that because he wasn't wearing a Fire Cape that his equipment was complete garbage... you could try and find a quote where I did say that, but that would be impossible. Equipment is also not just limited to the cape slot (amazing I know). As for your subtraction... well lets see. Armour... doesn't cost anything technically. Zarfot either wears proselyte or Bandos armour I believe. Since anyone could buy the armour and resell after their done, it doesn't really have a cost. Pots might add up to about 5mil. 5,000 Prayer pots is about 37.5mil and the cannonballs, I don't know how many he used. Put simply as mmmchips1 said, there are other drops than Whips, Dark Bows, and Dragon Boots. Rune items over time will add up to over 10mil. Special drops like Mauls and Mystic will add up. Herbs add up, as do seeds. Then things like half keys, dragon drops and all these other alchable drops will add up.

 

 

 

Put simply, that was indeed the overall experience rate he got per hour on average as well as the profit. I don't see how you can argue that with only 76 Slayer either. You are just past 1/13th of the way through the skill so of course you haven't gotten alot of drops yet.

Actually, I have all of the data in a spreadsheet as well, so you can stop trumpeting that fact. Like I said, Zarfot himself has said a cannon, if you only make 300k per hour, is not worth it; now that grey chinchompas have fallen, the advantage of a cannon is almost exactly balanced if you make 400k per hour, meaning that it would have virtually no effect on our calculations. That could possibly be what skewed your results; I'm not sure what else it could be besides inaccurate data entry.

[compfreak847]

What does 287 mean...?

 

:lol: Looks like someone didn't bother to read my first post. Randomly, in the middle of one of the paragraphs, I put in a request that 'if you've read this far, put the numbers two, eight, and seven in the first 3 characters of your post', to see if the poster had actually read my post ,or simply ignored all of my 'read the entire post' warnings.

[Inuashakent]

I read it, but I posted hours after I read it as I was reading it using my iPod...

 

 

 

Seems like I forgot. #-o :oops:

[ydrasil]

There really aren't many things. His equipment was just fine; the only improvements could have been slayer mask\bandos. Slayer mask is easy to adjust for; considering that our method uses prayer, we will be using proslyte\verac's skirt anyway - not including prayer (also easily adjusted for), it would actually slow kills down due to the need for increased eating. He also happens to be 92 slayer, and as such no doubt is more efficient then the average high level slayer - he, too, is big on efficiency, though not as much as Zarfot.

 

But again we can't be sure how much faster experience the Slayer Helmet gives. You showed on gargoyles that he went only 6.5% fastest with than without. On kalphites he went almost 15% faster with than without. I don't use proselyte unless I am using a protection prayer and I don't ever use Veracs for Slayer. I wear bandos and use the +10% strength prayer. Increased eating for what though? Eating is faster than using Guthans to heal. Next part is based on no logic... he is 92 slayer so therefore he must be more efficient than the average high level slayer? Upon what reasoning did you get that conclusion. People can train inefficiently and still get high Slayer levels.

 

 

 

The same reason everyone lies about stuff on the internet - he's become quite famous due to his 'high rates'. No, really? I thought you could download hacks... A little sarcasm can help the mood every now and then :-# You said you got the same rates for 18 dust devil kills; I haven't seen anything else remotely resembling proof, besides your (supposedly timed) killing of dust devils.

 

So you dodge the question without answering it. The same reason everyone else does, and that reason is? What does he have to gain by lying? Why didn't he lie for his other two guides? Why didn't he lie in his little mini guides for the other skills when he was maxing out all his stats? Why do his videos on youtube confirm what he says? You see now why I didn't want to test it? Because of my "supposedly timed" task of Dust Devils. You'll use any excuse to try and make your point. You'll trust Qeltar's numbers for whatever reason providing as much evidence as I did, but since I said mine, mine must be wrong... ok then...

 

 

 

There really isn't magic to attaining high rates; I'm in constant combat at Zombies, with ZERO time due to eating or potting, and a maximum of ~10 seconds lost every 10 minutes to run back and forth, CONTINUOUSLY hitting with a whip with a better bonus then slayer helm (Salve ammy (e) and piety (+23% strength, vs. your +10%, not to mention +20% to attack), and I'm STILL getting SIGNIFICANTLY less then you, with lower stats, claim to be getting at dust devils.

 

In that case we can you again lied to try and make your point more valid. Only losing 40k per hour at Zombie Monkies while using piety and melee protect? I went there yesterday to test the rate, I was following Muggi's guide from these forums, but I was using the +10% strength prayer. I started my timer as soon as I started attacking. After 10 minutes they stopped, I tele'd away came back. That 'round' took me 11 minutes and 1 second, but simply 11 minutes will do. I gained around 16.5k experience (no familiar), which extrapolates to 90k per hour. I used 1 prayer pot (4) in that time as well as 1 dose of a pure set and the other little things used. I extrapolated the loss to 50k per hour, with piety it would have been more. Also the bonus of the Salve Ammy isn't better than the Slayer Helm. The ammy combined with a Helm of Neitiznot is about equal to a Slayer Helmet and a Fury.

 

 

 

Explain where the error is? I'm in combat more continuously then you; constant aggressiveness means that I'm always attacking, save for the 10 second run a screen away and back to make them aggressive again. And yet you claim you can bank, get an assignment, set up invo and outfit, and kill dust devils for 40 minutes, altogether getting much better time then my continuously killing monkies? There is no room for error; the only time when I am not CONTINUOUSLY hitting with whip is the short run there and back to make them aggressive. I don't even count those seconds in my timing; they would make for approx 1.5k XP less; the rest of the time is nonstop combat with better equipment, stats (potting every 5 minutes vs. your 10), and much better prayer (+23% strength and +20% attack vs. +10% strength), without the need for food, healing, or banking of any sort. Explain how your getting 5-10k XP per hour better then me?

 

Who said there was an error? Zombie Monkies more than likely have higher defence than Dust Devils. How about you actually test Dust Devils while on Slayer yourself, rather than simply complaining. You won't trust anything but your made up rates, so why don;t you test it yourself without skewing the results like you have done so with just about every other rate so far.

 

 

 

Very little, it delivers approx. 8% faster kills - which is nearly canceled out by the time required to tele to slayer master get an assignment, bank, setup up invo\outfit, get there, and begin slaying. The remaining XP, if anything, would be less then the effect of Void. If your using slayer helm, there is no bonus for Nezinot. Equilvilant? I get the equivalent of 105 crimsons per hour, not banking - and I'm going fast, with very few delays whatsoever. Oh, and piety again, not +10% strength.

 

How do you know it is 8%? It doesn't matter anyway because what I was saying was based on Slayer. If you got a Slayer task of them, are you going to grab Karils, "barrows" gloves and a Slayer Helmet, or Void melee? That was the point I was making. While on Slayer for these I use a Saradomin Godsword, a Unicorn, I don't use protect from range and I use superhuman strength. I get about 100 crimsons per hour as well as the other colour charms which is about equivalent to another 9-10 crimsons meaning I was getting about 110 per hour while on Slayer. I could obviously go faster with a Saradomin Sword, better stats and also using Piety.

 

 

 

I use piety, as has been stated several times before. You commented on your use of BOBs several time, such as saying that you didn't need alching runes because between your inventory and BOB you had plenty of space for drops. The +4 strength IS irrelevant; we are comparing slayer results to my results for zombie monkies. If it makes you happy, we can tack on an extra 500 XP per hour because of fire cape, but you should boost my XP by 700, making things (insignificantly) worse for slayer.

 

Yes I did comment on not alching during the task (which you yourself admit to not alching either). I said something along the lines of BOBs can be used to get extra food, I didn't mention that between inven and BOB you would have plenty of space (but you would).

 

 

 

Yes, more accurate. Not going to make a large difference, though; especially considering that we have roughly 32 hours for all of the combined slayer monsters. Any high or low variations should pretty much cancel themselves out in that much time; I consider 32 hours (and around 4,000 kills) enough for fairly accurate results.

 

32 hours is irrelvant however. Care to guess as to why? Could it be that simply it still remains to be only 1 hour to each monster? 32 hours, and 4000 kills, 1 hour of which to different Slayer tasks (duradel only has 24, and he doesn't have rates for a few of them, so it isn't really 32 hours. Again you try to make up numbers to show your side).

 

 

 

Pardon me, who? I haven't seen anyone that says they get anywhere close to them, besides your comprehensive 18 dust devil test, including Inushakent.

 

Have I not mentioned several times while I don't get his rates, I do get close. Wow, you really are trying hard to ignore what shows you are wrong. That test With Dust Devils did show the rate I was getting, I could do tests on every other Slayer Monster if you like.... but then again, you would make up some excuse again as to why you want them to be wrong.

 

 

 

Creepy, yes. Impossibly hard to obtain, yes. Exaggerations? Probably... I'd also like to point out that Inuashakent even stated that Zarfot had a tendancy to exaggerate, and he (Inuashakent) has fairly methodical testing AND supports slayer

 

Impossibly hard to obtain... the answer is actually no. Exaggerations... answer is also no. Inuashakent stating that doesn't make it true either. Please show us where he actually has purposely exaggerated to make the rate higher for absolutely no gain he would receive. I'm not questioning Inuashakent's method of Slayer or such, just simply your interpretation.

 

 

 

Generally, when one wears a Salve ammy (e), one is not receiving a bonus from a slayer helment. On the tasks which he was wearing either a slayer helm (3-4 of them, I believe), or a salve ammy, I did not increase the statistics based on our 'slayer helmet' numbers.

 

I always used the kills per hour that he got when he wasn't getting the bonus of the Slayer Helmet/Black Mask. Also for all the rates he had, only 3 of those I used he had used a cannon on.

 

 

 

Actually, I have all of the data in a spreadsheet as well, so you can stop trumpeting that fact. Like I said, Zarfot himself has said a cannon, if you only make 300k per hour, is not worth it; now that grey chinchompas have fallen, the advantage of a cannon is almost exactly balanced if you make 400k per hour, meaning that it would have virtually no effect on our calculations. That could possibly be what skewed your results; I'm not sure what else it could be besides inaccurate data entry.

 

Trumpeting what fact? I was just explaining how I got the numbers I did... you see, what I do is I show how I got the numbers whilst you just make them up, see the difference? I also see you neglected to mention the rate I got from Qeltar (who you admit is oh so accurate), and that it was higher than what you got.

 

Monster - Hitpoints - Kills Per hour - Slayer xp/h

 

Aberrant Spectres - 90 - 390 - 35,100

 

Abyssal Demons - 150 - 91 - 13,650

 

Black Demons - 157 - 98 - 15,386

 

Bloodvelds - 186 - 88 - 16,368

 

Dagannoths - 70 - 189 - 13,230

 

Dark Beasts - 220 - 63 - 13,860

 

Dust Devils - 105 - 151 - 15,855

 

Fire Giants - 111 - 143 - 15,873

 

Gargoyles - 105 - 129 - 13,545

 

Greater Demons - 87 - 165 - 14,355

 

Hellhounds - 116 - 126 - 14,616

 

Iron Dragons - 165 - 63 - 10,395

 

Kalphites - 90 - 320 - 28,800

 

Mithril Dragons - 254 - 20 - 5,080

 

Nechryaels - 105 - 122 - 12,810

 

Skeletal Wyverns - 200 - 53 - 10,600

 

Steel Dragons - 210 - 30 - 6,300

 

Suqahs - 108 - 134 - 14,472

 

Waterfiends - 128 - 94 - 12,032

 

 

 

The next ones I had forgot to add in because they weren' in the table I was looking at.

 

 

 

Goraks - 112 - 129 - 14,448

 

Spiritual Mages - 85 - 169 - 14,365

 

Warped Terrorbirds - 150 - 99 - 14,850

 

 

 

So what does all that average out to? 14,817 experience per hour.

 

That was with no Slayer Helmet, only 3 of those involved a cannon, no stat enhancing prayers and worse equipment. That is also 59.2k melee xp/h, on Slayer that is only going to get higher.

 

 

 

Now you say that Zarfot says at only 300k an hour, that cannon isn't worth it. Hey, isn't it you that has been saying it is 400k profit per hour at Avaiansies, how convenient. Regardless, it still has an effect as faster kills = higher rates (amazing how that works isn't it?). What skewed my results?!?! You have been the only one making up numbers and having the results skewed. You go on and on about Qeltar not even get 1/3 or whatever of Zarfots, as you said his averaged out to 47.5k... woopsie that was made up. You say Zombie Monkies only loses 40k an hour... woopsie another error. Slayer averages 8 crimsons per hour!... look at that, another mistake based on no rational logic. Shall I continue?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-EDIT

 

I just went back and tested the prayer drain with piety and protect from melee at zombie Monkies. I used up 13 doses of prayer during the perios in which they were aggressive. So:

 

13 doses of Prayer potion - 7,534*3.25 = 24,485

 

1 dose Pure set - 1,058+195 = 1,253

 

Amount of money spent in one hour - 25,738/0.1694444 = 151,896

 

Having proof that your an idiot - priceless

 

 

 

Had to say it sorry :

[compfreak847]

There really aren't many things. His equipment was just fine; the only improvements could have been slayer mask\bandos. Slayer mask is easy to adjust for; considering that our method uses prayer, we will be using proslyte\verac's skirt anyway - not including prayer (also easily adjusted for), it would actually slow kills down due to the need for increased eating. He also happens to be 92 slayer, and as such no doubt is more efficient then the average high level slayer - he, too, is big on efficiency, though not as much as Zarfot.

 

But again we can't be sure how much faster experience the Slayer Helmet gives. You showed on gargoyles that he went only 6.5% fastest with than without. On kalphites he went almost 15% faster with than without. I don't use proselyte unless I am using a protection prayer and I don't ever use Veracs for Slayer. I wear bandos and use the +10% strength prayer. Increased eating for what though? Eating is faster than using Guthans to heal. Next part is based on no logic... he is 92 slayer so therefore he must be more efficient than the average high level slayer? Upon what reasoning did you get that conclusion. People can train inefficiently and still get high Slayer levels. True, but he has a proven track record for being efficient and getting good XP, although not so much as Zarfot.

 

 

 

The same reason everyone lies about stuff on the internet - he's become quite famous due to his 'high rates'. No, really? I thought you could download hacks... A little sarcasm can help the mood every now and then :-# You said you got the same rates for 18 dust devil kills; I haven't seen anything else remotely resembling proof, besides your (supposedly timed) killing of dust devils.

 

So you dodge the question without answering it. The same reason everyone else does, and that reason is? What does he have to gain by lying? Why didn't he lie for his other two guides? Why didn't he lie in his little mini guides for the other skills when he was maxing out all his stats? Why do his videos on youtube confirm what he says? You see now why I didn't want to test it? Because of my "supposedly timed" task of Dust Devils. You'll use any excuse to try and make your point. You'll trust Qeltar's numbers for whatever reason providing as much evidence as I did, but since I said mine, mine must be wrong... ok then... It doesn't really count as an 'excuse to make my points' when you DID only test 18 dust devils. Feel free to point me to videos where Zarfot details his XP rate testing. Correct, I really don't have that much more evidence, but did you ever stop and wonder why no one else is getting your rates, but mine are generally accepted for slayer?

 

 

 

There really isn't magic to attaining high rates; I'm in constant combat at Zombies, with ZERO time due to eating or potting, and a maximum of ~10 seconds lost every 10 minutes to run back and forth, CONTINUOUSLY hitting with a whip with a better bonus then slayer helm (Salve ammy (e) and piety (+23% strength, vs. your +10%, not to mention +20% to attack), and I'm STILL getting SIGNIFICANTLY less then you, with lower stats, claim to be getting at dust devils.

 

In that case we can you again lied to try and make your point more valid. Only losing 40k per hour at Zombie Monkies while using piety and melee protect? I went there yesterday to test the rate, I was following Muggi's guide from these forums, but I was using the +10% strength prayer. I started my timer as soon as I started attacking. After 10 minutes they stopped, I tele'd away came back. That 'round' took me 11 minutes and 1 second, but simply 11 minutes will do. I gained around 16.5k experience (no familiar), which extrapolates to 90k per hour. I used 1 prayer pot (4) in that time as well as 1 dose of a pure set and the other little things used. I extrapolated the loss to 50k per hour, with piety it would have been more. Also the bonus of the Salve Ammy isn't better than the Slayer Helm. The ammy combined with a Helm of Neitiznot is about equal to a Slayer Helmet and a Fury.

 

 

 

Explain where the error is? I'm in combat more continuously then you; constant aggressiveness means that I'm always attacking, save for the 10 second run a screen away and back to make them aggressive again. And yet you claim you can bank, get an assignment, set up invo and outfit, and kill dust devils for 40 minutes, altogether getting much better time then my continuously killing monkies? There is no room for error; the only time when I am not CONTINUOUSLY hitting with whip is the short run there and back to make them aggressive. I don't even count those seconds in my timing; they would make for approx 1.5k XP less; the rest of the time is nonstop combat with better equipment, stats (potting every 5 minutes vs. your 10), and much better prayer (+23% strength and +20% attack vs. +10% strength), without the need for food, healing, or banking of any sort. Explain how your getting 5-10k XP per hour better then me?

 

Who said there was an error? Zombie Monkies more than likely have higher defence than Dust Devils. How about you actually test Dust Devils while on Slayer yourself, rather than simply complaining. You won't trust anything but your made up rates, so why don;t you test it yourself without skewing the results like you have done so with just about every other rate so far. No, they don't, I very rarely miss. I haven't formally tested dust devils, but last time I was there I was averaging around 72k XP per hour.

 

 

 

Very little, it delivers approx. 8% faster kills - which is nearly canceled out by the time required to tele to slayer master get an assignment, bank, setup up invo\outfit, get there, and begin slaying. The remaining XP, if anything, would be less then the effect of Void. If your using slayer helm, there is no bonus for Nezinot. Equilvilant? I get the equivalent of 105 crimsons per hour, not banking - and I'm going fast, with very few delays whatsoever. Oh, and piety again, not +10% strength.

 

How do you know it is 8%? It doesn't matter anyway because what I was saying was based on Slayer. If you got a Slayer task of them, are you going to grab Karils, "barrows" gloves and a Slayer Helmet, or Void melee? That was the point I was making. While on Slayer for these I use a Saradomin Godsword, a Unicorn, I don't use protect from range and I use superhuman strength. I get about 100 crimsons per hour as well as the other colour charms which is about equivalent to another 9-10 crimsons meaning I was getting about 110 per hour while on Slayer. I could obviously go faster with a Saradomin Sword, better stats and also using Piety. Impossible. I used void + piety, and got a total of 104 crimson worth of charms, in continuous combat, not counting banking or setting up.

 

 

 

I use piety, as has been stated several times before. You commented on your use of BOBs several time, such as saying that you didn't need alching runes because between your inventory and BOB you had plenty of space for drops. The +4 strength IS irrelevant; we are comparing slayer results to my results for zombie monkies. If it makes you happy, we can tack on an extra 500 XP per hour because of fire cape, but you should boost my XP by 700, making things (insignificantly) worse for slayer.

 

Yes I did comment on not alching during the task (which you yourself admit to not alching either). I said something along the lines of BOBs can be used to get extra food, I didn't mention that between inven and BOB you would have plenty of space (but you would). Good. Thanks for verifying what I said about you using BOBs.

 

 

 

Yes, more accurate. Not going to make a large difference, though; especially considering that we have roughly 32 hours for all of the combined slayer monsters. Any high or low variations should pretty much cancel themselves out in that much time; I consider 32 hours (and around 4,000 kills) enough for fairly accurate results.

 

32 hours is irrelvant however. Care to guess as to why? Could it be that simply it still remains to be only 1 hour to each monster? 32 hours, and 4000 kills, 1 hour of which to different Slayer tasks (duradel only has 24, and he doesn't have rates for a few of them, so it isn't really 32 hours. Again you try to make up numbers to show your side). Actually, it is quite relevant - even over different monsters, XP will average out. He has rates for, as you said, all but 2 of them, making for 22 tasks, 32 hours, and 3000-4000 kills - enough for a good average.

 

 

 

Pardon me, who? I haven't seen anyone that says they get anywhere close to them, besides your comprehensive 18 dust devil test, including Inushakent.

 

Have I not mentioned several times while I don't get his rates, I do get close. Wow, you really are trying hard to ignore what shows you are wrong. That test With Dust Devils did show the rate I was getting, I could do tests on every other Slayer Monster if you like.... but then again, you would make up some excuse again as to why you want them to be wrong. Don't bother, Qeltar has done that for you. Somehow I doubt you 18 kills of a particular monster would be quite as accurate as his.

 

 

 

Creepy, yes. Impossibly hard to obtain, yes. Exaggerations? Probably... I'd also like to point out that Inuashakent even stated that Zarfot had a tendancy to exaggerate, and he (Inuashakent) has fairly methodical testing AND supports slayer

 

Impossibly hard to obtain... the answer is actually no. Exaggerations... answer is also no. Inuashakent stating that doesn't make it true either. Please show us where he actually has purposely exaggerated to make the rate higher for absolutely no gain he would receive. I'm not questioning Inuashakent's method of Slayer or such, just simply your interpretation. Welcome to the internet. Believe it or not, some people enjoy lying so that they can appear important or 'amazing' by receiving more XP then anyone else.

 

 

 

Generally, when one wears a Salve ammy (e), one is not receiving a bonus from a slayer helment. On the tasks which he was wearing either a slayer helm (3-4 of them, I believe), or a salve ammy, I did not increase the statistics based on our 'slayer helmet' numbers.

 

I always used the kills per hour that he got when he wasn't getting the bonus of the Slayer Helmet/Black Mask. Also for all the rates he had, only 3 of those I used he had used a cannon on. Well, take them out, and see what happens. I double checked my numbers, all of which are exactly what he had in his guides.

 

 

 

Actually, I have all of the data in a spreadsheet as well, so you can stop trumpeting that fact. Like I said, Zarfot himself has said a cannon, if you only make 300k per hour, is not worth it; now that grey chinchompas have fallen, the advantage of a cannon is almost exactly balanced if you make 400k per hour, meaning that it would have virtually no effect on our calculations. That could possibly be what skewed your results; I'm not sure what else it could be besides inaccurate data entry.

 

Trumpeting what fact? I was just explaining how I got the numbers I did... you see, what I do is I show how I got the numbers whilst you just make them up, see the difference? I also see you neglected to mention the rate I got from Qeltar (who you admit is oh so accurate), and that it was higher than what you got.

 

Monster - Hitpoints - Kills Per hour - Slayer xp/h

 

Aberrant Spectres - 90 - 390 - 35,100

 

Abyssal Demons - 150 - 91 - 13,650

 

Black Demons - 157 - 98 - 15,386

 

Bloodvelds - 186 - 88 - 16,368

 

Dagannoths - 70 - 189 - 13,230

 

Dark Beasts - 220 - 63 - 13,860

 

Dust Devils - 105 - 151 - 15,855

 

Fire Giants - 111 - 143 - 15,873

 

Gargoyles - 105 - 129 - 13,545

 

Greater Demons - 87 - 165 - 14,355

 

Hellhounds - 116 - 126 - 14,616

 

Iron Dragons - 165 - 63 - 10,395

 

Kalphites - 90 - 320 - 28,800

 

Mithril Dragons - 254 - 20 - 5,080

 

Nechryaels - 105 - 122 - 12,810

 

Skeletal Wyverns - 200 - 53 - 10,600

 

Steel Dragons - 210 - 30 - 6,300

 

Suqahs - 108 - 134 - 14,472

 

Waterfiends - 128 - 94 - 12,032

 

 

 

The next ones I had forgot to add in because they weren' in the table I was looking at.

 

 

 

Goraks - 112 - 129 - 14,448

 

Spiritual Mages - 85 - 169 - 14,365

 

Warped Terrorbirds - 150 - 99 - 14,850

 

 

 

So what does all that average out to? 14,817 experience per hour.

 

That was with no Slayer Helmet, only 3 of those involved a cannon, no stat enhancing prayers and worse equipment. That is also 59.2k melee xp/h, on Slayer that is only going to get higher. Those 3 tasks with a cannon were what skewed your results slightly. Try takeing them out; I also did not include the 3 tasks he did not show.

 

 

 

Now you say that Zarfot says at only 300k an hour, that cannon isn't worth it. Hey, isn't it you that has been saying it is 400k profit per hour at Avaiansies, how convenient. Regardless, it still has an effect as faster kills = higher rates (amazing how that works isn't it?). What skewed my results?!?! You have been the only one making up numbers and having the results skewed. You go on and on about Qeltar not even get 1/3 or whatever of Zarfots, as you said his averaged out to 47.5k... woopsie that was made up. You say Zombie Monkies only loses 40k an hour... woopsie another error. Slayer averages 8 crimsons per hour!... look at that, another mistake based on no rational logic. Shall I continue? Amazing how that 300k, when you allow for decreased chinchompa prices and the fact that that wasn't the exact threshold, lines up nicely with 400k profit per hour. Notice how, with less profit then that, the cost outweighs the time saved with it - making it slightly less then worthless. Odd, because I used 8 prayer pots in one hour at monkies, and my 8 crimsons (based on Sommas tasks, which WAS my mistake), were not as far off as your '58 crimsons' rate.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-EDIT

 

I just went back and tested the prayer drain with piety and protect from melee at zombie Monkies. I used up 13 doses of prayer during the perios in which they were aggressive. So:

 

13 doses of Prayer potion - 7,534*3.25 = 24,485

 

1 dose Pure set - 1,058+195 = 1,253

 

Amount of money spent in one hour - 25,738/0.1694444 = 151,896

 

Having proof that your an idiot - priceless

 

 

 

Had to say it sorry :

 

Pardon me for asking, but what was your equipment? I personally use: HP cape, salve ammy, full proslyte w/ nezinot helm, berserker ring, dragon boots, whip and zammy book, witih prayer pots, super sets, 2 geyser titan pouches, a teletab and a SGS in my invo. I've proven that setup best; zammy book works much better then defender.

 

[compfreak847]

Interesting side note: I just started doing slayer for some tests, and I happened to get 2 tasks of Kalphites in a row, both tasks of 164. I went with the standard equipment, slayer helm, dfs + defender, torags for tanking, d boots, ring of life, barrows gloves, HP cape. I prayed +10% strength. I only competed with 2 people in both tasks; the first one hopped after ~20 seconds, the second one after about a minute. Both tests were in world 144, with the fastest possible respawn time. I super setted once every 10 minutes, using unicorn to heal (no combat slowdown), with super antipoison pots. I picked up drops in the fastest manor possible, but still lost a small amount of time. It took me, on average, 6 1/2 minutes to tele to Duradel, receive the task, gear up in bank, teleport to Shanty Pass, run to kalphite lair, set up and enter the room to begin killing. I measure the timing with my unicorn, which was summoned as I hit the first hit with my whip. I was paying more attention then I usually do, but a small amount of time was sometimes lost due to running across the room to attack a soldier. Soldiers have 90 hp, making for fairly quick kills. I rarely hit zero.

 

 

 

Results:

 

1st run - 57 minutes (End of unicorn + roughly 3 minutes)

 

2nd run - 55 minutes (Shortly after unicorn died)

 

 

 

XP from both runs: 59,040

 

 

 

Total time for both runs:

 

1st run - 63.5

 

2nd run - 61.5

 

 

 

Average Melee XP per hour for both runs:

 

1st run - 55.7k

 

2nd run - 57.6k

 

 

 

Average Melee XP per hour:

 

56.7k XP

 

 

 

Interesting. Qeltar's XP, without counting banking or assignment, INCLUDING black mask, was 66.2k - I can't explain why he got significantly higher XP with similar equipment but no +10% strength pray. His higher stats, berserker ring instead of ring of life, and rune defender might have helped him. He might have been better acquainted with kalphites; I have not been there in a while, and without having the respawn points memorized, I might not have been killing at my very best rate. His gold charms were significantly higher then mine, while his other charms were about the same or slightly higher (I accidentally banked my charms before I recorded the exact numbers :wall: ).

[DreamReaper]

The columns are a bit sloppy, I know. As long as you can still read it, it's fine.

 

 

 

If it's hard to understand I'll do my best to try to explain it.

 

 

 

All of these numbers are for slaying without a cannon.

 

 

 

Slayer vs Monkeys

 

 

 

If you value magic xp and charms

 

 

 

Slayer & string-----------------Lobs---------------------monkeys

 

jewelry

 

40 crim. charms p/h-------------161 crim p/h

 

80k combt xp p/h-----------------------------------------100k cmbt xp p/h

 

130k mage xp p/h----------------180k p/h

 

+100k p/h-------------------------713,874gp p/h----------40k p/h

 

-534,894gp p/h

 

 

 

In 1 hr

 

 

 

65k mage xp---------------------------------------------90k mage xp

 

20 crim-------------------------------------------------80 crim

 

40k cmbt------------------------------------------------50k cmbt xp

 

-227,182gp----------------------------------------------376,937gp

 

 

 

.69 hrs to get 90k mage xp ------- .5 hr- Same time

 

269,076gp spent ----------- 376,937gp spent

 

2 hrs to get 80 crim ------- .5 hr- Same time

 

 

 

160k melee xp attained whilst gathering charms ---- 1.6 hrs to gain 160k melee xp

 

200k gp gained ---------------- 64k gp lost

 

 

 

TOTAL

 

69,076gp lost---------------- 440,937gp lost

 

 

 

2.69 hrs spent ------- 2.1 hrs spent

 

371,861gp difference

 

 

 

.59 hr difference

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion: If you value magic experience and you make over 620K p/h slayer is less effecient.

 

 

 

I think I did something wrong here. I'll be going over this section again later.

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

However, if you don't value magic experience, but you do value charms...

 

 

 

80k cmbt ------ 78k

 

40 crim ------ 40 crim

 

+100k ------ -180k approximately

 

1 hr ------ 1 hr

 

 

 

 

 

Slayer>monkeys and lobs if you don't value magic xp

 

 

 

 

 

Change lobs for fiend-assuming 100 charms p/h with no -costs 100 charms is attainable through dharok's

 

and void w/ piety

 

 

 

80k cmbt ----- 60k cmbt + 6.8k cmbt=66.8k cmbt

 

40 crim ----- 40 crim

 

+100k ----- -24k

 

1 hr 1 hr

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion: If you don't value magic experience, but do value charms, slayer is more effecient.

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

However, if you don't value charms...

 

 

 

80k cmbt ----- 100k cmbt

 

+100k ----- -40k

 

 

 

1 hr ----- 1 hr

 

 

 

.8 hrs (48 minutes) to get 80k cmbt

 

12 minutes to gain 140k

 

140k*5=700k

 

Explanation:

 

12 minutes is 1/5 of an hour. What you need to make in 12 minutes is 140k. Making 140k in 12 minutes is equivalent

 

to making 700k in one hour.

 

 

 

Conclusion: If you can make over 700k p/h zombie monkeys are better xp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unless you have a large 700k+ income. Slayer is better in ALL cases.

 

 

 

This data surprised me greatly. I'll be making some later revisions. This is more of a rough draft, so constructive comments about it, please

[Inuashakent]

Don't use a DFS, use a defender on all tasks except scarabs.

 

 

 

Don't use a unicorn, use a combat familiar.

 

 

 

In the end, however, combat xp doesn't really matter. It's all about Slayer xp, especially because people who get 99 combat stats through Slayer are going for 99 Slayer... That's why cannon is so great for Slayer.

 

 

 

He got that high of an xp rate because of cobmat familiars.

 

 

 

Qeltars a mile yard but an inch deep, so his rates are going to be off. Especially with something like charms... they do require a couple hundred at least, while he did (most likely, in all honesty) a slayer task or two.

 

 

 

There is also locations that give you 2 cannons instead of 1, but that only gives range xp, not melee.

 

 

 

Slayer is a whole skill in itself, and I don't see how you can truely compare with other methods of training. Obviously, people who are trying to achieve higher levels should train Slayer. Other combat methods are just a waste of time, unless you are purposely avoiding that skill.

 

 

 

Impossibly hard to obtain... the answer is actually no. Exaggerations... answer is also no. Inuashakent stating that doesn't make it true either. Please show us where he actually has purposely exaggerated to make the rate higher for absolutely no gain he would receive. I'm not questioning Inuashakent's method of Slayer or such, just simply your interpretation.

 

I'm not saying he's exaggerating, but it is definetely at LEAST very hard to achieve his rates. I even said he's not exaggerating. Seriously, he calls "distractions" 1% every hour, which translates into 30 seconds/hour. Seriously, when I'm "distracted" I lose... 20 minutes per hour? :lol: (Obviously most people don't get distracted this much. ;) )

 

 

 

Lies? No.

 

Exaggerations? Probably not. <---- See?

 

Impossibly hard to obtain rates? Yes.

 

 

 

Dream, what you did wrong was that you didn't calculate in Slayer xp. Also, other methods (you did your math wrong.) is better in ALL aspects, besides Slayer xp.

[DreamReaper]

Dream, what you did wrong was that you didn't calculate in Slayer xp. Also, other methods (you did your math wrong.) is better in ALL aspects, besides Slayer xp.

 

 

 

Yea, I was assuming I had made a couple mistakes :oops:.

 

 

 

And if you're assigning any value to slayer experience slayer will always be the better choice :thumbup:.

[Inuashakent]

Dream, what you did wrong was that you didn't calculate in Slayer xp. Also, other methods (you did your math wrong.) is better in ALL aspects, besides Slayer xp.

 

 

 

Yea, I was assuming I had made a couple mistakes :oops:.

 

 

 

And if you're assigning any value to slayer experience slayer will always be the better choice :thumbup:.

 

Yeah, I mentioned that on my first post here. ;)

 

 

 

Slayer is... Slayer.

[DreamReaper]

Somewhat revised version.

 

 

 

The other two still seemed correct to me.

 

 

 

If you value magic xp and charms

 

 

 

Slayer & string-----------------Lobs---------------------monkeys

 

jewelry

 

40 crim. charms p/h-------------161 crim p/h

 

80k combt xp p/h-----------------------------------------100k cmbt xp p/h

 

130k mage xp p/h----------------180k p/h

 

+100k p/h-------------------------713,874gp p/h----------40k p/h

 

String jewelry also loses about 554,364gp p/h

 

1 hr

 

 

 

65k mage xp---------------------------------------------90k mage xp

 

20 crim-------------------------------------------------80 crim

 

40k cmbt------------------------------------------------50k cmbt xp

 

-227,182gp--------------------------------------------- -376,937gp

 

 

 

.69 hrs to get 90k mage xp ------- .5 hr- Same time

 

2 hrs to get 80 crim ------- .5 hr- Same time

 

160k melee xp attained whilst gathering charms ---- 1.6 hrs to gain 160k melee xp

 

 

 

Total

 

-182,511gp-------------- -440,937gp

 

 

 

2.69 hrs spent ------- 2.1 hrs spent

 

258,426gp difference

 

_________

 

.59 hr difference

 

 

 

438,010gp p/h

 

 

 

Conclusion: If you value magic experience and you make over 440K p/h slayer is less effecient.

 

 

 

I'm probably missing some huge part of the math here that's making this completely wrong. I have little faith in my ability to not make careless mistakes that screw up the whole thing.

[Inuashakent]

There is no way to balance two skills out, especially ones that rely on other skills, such as Slayer and Summoning. Therefore, the fact that there is no such thing as "most efficient method to train Magic", makes it impossible to find an exact number when comparing two skills.

[DreamReaper]

There is no way to balance two skills out, especially ones that rely on other skills, such as Slayer and Summoning. Therefore, the fact that there is no such thing as "most efficient method to train Magic", makes it impossible to find an exact number when comparing two skills.

 

 

 

True. But approximations are better than nothing. There are just too many variables to get an accurate representation of the data here.

[ydrasil]

It doesn't really count as an 'excuse to make my points' when you DID only test 18 dust devils. Feel free to point me to videos where Zarfot details his XP rate testing. Correct, I really don't have that much more evidence, but did you ever stop and wonder why no one else is getting your rates, but mine are generally accepted for slayer?

 

When I mentioned Zarfot's guides, those were for the other skills he didn't have 99 in on his way to 2376 total. I mentioned that for a reason, and i'll say why furthur on in the post. People are getting my rates, regardless of what you think. Please also explain how yours are generally accepted (when i've yet to see someone agree that 45k is the maximum average) at 45k per hour when even Qeltar gets up to 60k without Slayer. He also got that without stat enhancing prayer. So no, yours aren't actually generally accepted.

 

 

 

No, they don't, I very rarely miss. I haven't formally tested dust devils, but last time I was there I was averaging around 72k XP per hour.

 

You very rarely miss... do you see how vague that is. With Slayer Helmet on Dust Devils don't you also "very rarely miss"? No-one other than those who work at Jagex can actually say with 100% certaining which has the higher/lower defence.

 

 

 

Impossible. I used void + piety, and got a total of 104 crimson worth of charms, in continuous combat, not counting banking or setting up.

 

It isn't impossible. Mine wasn't counting banking or setting up and was also effectively continous combat. Just because it is higher than what you got doesn't make it impossible.

 

 

 

Good. Thanks for verifying what I said about you using BOBs.

 

Actually you'll find you verified nothing. Read through and then tell me where it says I use them : . While this has no impact on what we are talking about, I don't like people saying I have said or done things when I haven't (which you continously do). I said that they can be used, not that I use them.

 

 

 

Actually, it is quite relevant - even over different monsters, XP will average out. He has rates for, as you said, all but 2 of them, making for 22 tasks, 32 hours, and 3000-4000 kills - enough for a good average.

 

22 different monsters means 22 hours, not 32. It doesn't even out over all monsters if he has each rate for each monster being inaccurate (inaccurate+inaccurate =/= accurate : ).

 

 

 

Don't bother, Qeltar has done that for you. Somehow I doubt you 18 kills of a particular monster would be quite as accurate as his.

 

Qeltar has tested efficiently each monster while on Slayer? I didn't know he updated his database between when I last posted and now.

 

 

 

Welcome to the internet. Believe it or not, some people enjoy lying so that they can appear important or 'amazing' by receiving more XP then anyone else.

 

The videos from Zarfot I mentioned above comes to this point here. While some people may enjoy lying, this isn't one of those cases. On his way to 99 in every skill he wrote mini guides to how he trained, he has comprehensive guides on 3 of those skills, he even has some videos showing how he did train. Now after all that effort, all his numbers in every other guide non-exaggerated, would he lie about Slayer?

 

http://www.youtube.com/tofraz

 

That is his channel. While he doesn't have a video detailing his Slayer rates, it is just there to give a general idea of how he does the task.

 

 

 

Well, take them out, and see what happens. I double checked my numbers, all of which are exactly what he had in his guides.

 

There is no reason to take them out. However I did, and guess what? I still got just over 14k Slayer xp per hour, which is 56k melee experience. Isn't it odd how based on the same numbers, the numbers are different... couldn't possibly be you being biased though and purposely dropping the rates though.

 

 

 

Those 3 tasks with a cannon were what skewed your results slightly. Try takeing them out; I also did not include the 3 tasks he did not show.

 

Those 3 tasks which "he didn't show"... he did show. They were just in a different section that was all, I hasn't realsied that at first, but after I found them I added them in. Using a cannon doesn't matter. All that shows is that overall, you'll get more experience per hour with a cannon than without.

 

 

 

Amazing how that 300k, when you allow for decreased chinchompa prices and the fact that that wasn't the exact threshold, lines up nicely with 400k profit per hour. Notice how, with less profit then that, the cost outweighs the time saved with it - making it slightly less then worthless. Odd, because I used 8 prayer pots in one hour at monkies, and my 8 crimsons (based on Sommas tasks, which WAS my mistake), were not as far off as your '58 crimsons' rate.

 

Err... what? You keep forgetting that using a cannon is effectively no time lost. It is addition to what you get by meleeing. The point of me mentioning the Aviansies is that if you need more than 300k profit per hour for the cannon to be worth it, by using Aviansies as your money maker, it is worth using. It has nothing to do without chinchompas, so i've no idea why you mentioned them. I never said 58 crimsons per hour. Pray tell how 8 rather than '58' is closer to 55. I must be bad at maths cause I can't see how 8 is closer.

 

 

 

Pardon me for asking, but what was your equipment? I personally use: HP cape, salve ammy, full proslyte w/ nezinot helm, berserker ring, dragon boots, whip and zammy book, witih prayer pots, super sets, 2 geyser titan pouches, a teletab and a SGS in my invo. I've proven that setup best; zammy book works much better then defender.

 

 

The only difference in equipment was I used a Fire Cape compared to the Hipoints Cape, I used a Rune Defender and a DDS for specials not the SGS. You'll also find the Zamorak Book isn't best. Compared to the Defender, you are less accurate and hit lower. That reduces your experience rate in order to save a bit on prayer. Also with the Cape, based on attack bonuses, I have a higher chance to hit (if only slightly), can hit higher but at a loss of 2 prayer bonus. However with the SGS instead the Prayer used would indeed by less but not by alot. If I used 3.25 prayer pots in 10 minutes 10 seconds, that equates to 19.25 prayer potions per hour. So unless over the course of an hour the SGS saves you 11.25 prayer potions you are more than likely lying again. What is even more disturbing is you even saying you use 8 per hour. 8*7,534 = 60,272 gp for just the Prayer potions, the pure sets adds about 7.4k per hour Geyser Titan's last 69 minutes and cost 3,392 each so that adds another 3k per hour. That is over 70k loss per hour yet you said it was only 40k. At least we finally got you to admit you were lying about one of the rates (even though the loss is still greater than that from what i've seen).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting side note: I just started doing slayer for some tests, and I happened to get 2 tasks of Kalphites in a row, both tasks of 164. I went with the standard equipment, slayer helm, dfs + defender, torags for tanking, d boots, ring of life, barrows gloves, HP cape. I prayed +10% strength. I only competed with 2 people in both tasks; the first one hopped after ~20 seconds, the second one after about a minute. Both tests were in world 144, with the fastest possible respawn time. I super setted once every 10 minutes, using unicorn to heal (no combat slowdown), with super antipoison pots. I picked up drops in the fastest manor possible, but still lost a small amount of time. It took me, on average, 6 1/2 minutes to tele to Duradel, receive the task, gear up in bank, teleport to Shanty Pass, run to kalphite lair, set up and enter the room to begin killing. I measure the timing with my unicorn, which was summoned as I hit the first hit with my whip. I was paying more attention then I usually do, but a small amount of time was sometimes lost due to running across the room to attack a soldier. Soldiers have 90 hp, making for fairly quick kills. I rarely hit zero.

 

Dragonfire Shield and a Defender? Ok thats odd. Torags for tanking? and yet you also brought a Unicorn. A Unicorn provides more than enough healing even with Bandos armour. Ring of Life is useless, should at least use a Ring of Wealth. 6.5 minutes on average. You said you got them 2 in a row, you would already have on the right equipment, and the potions/food don't take long to get out. Tele to Duradel, I though you said you use NPC Contact (it is the most efficient way to train Slayer). It is also easier to use the BIQ fairy ring to get there. You also didn't use a cannon, you would have found it overal far more efficient to use it than to not.

 

 

 

 

Impossibly hard to obtain... the answer is actually no. Exaggerations... answer is also no. Inuashakent stating that doesn't make it true either. Please show us where he actually has purposely exaggerated to make the rate higher for absolutely no gain he would receive. I'm not questioning Inuashakent's method of Slayer or such, just simply your interpretation.

 

 

 

I'm not saying he's exaggerating, but it is definetely at LEAST very hard to achieve his rates. I even said he's not exaggerating. Seriously, he calls "distractions" 1% every hour, which translates into 30 seconds/hour. Seriously, when I'm "distracted" I lose... 20 minutes per hour? :lol: (Obviously most people don't get distracted this much. ;) )

 

When I posted that I was responding to compfreak847. Compfreak847 insisted that Zarfot was either lying or exaggerating to make himself appear better. Compfreak847 even said that you were saying Zarfot was exaggerating, yet your reply says that you don't. So again compfreak847 made another mistake to further try and back up his point.

 

 

 

Lies? No.

 

Exaggerations? Probably not. <---- See?

 

Impossibly hard to obtain rates? Yes.

 

This at least shows proof that compfreak847 was yet again wrong.

[compfreak847]

It doesn't really count as an 'excuse to make my points' when you DID only test 18 dust devils. Feel free to point me to videos where Zarfot details his XP rate testing. Correct, I really don't have that much more evidence, but did you ever stop and wonder why no one else is getting your rates, but mine are generally accepted for slayer?

 

When I mentioned Zarfot's guides, those were for the other skills he didn't have 99 in on his way to 2376 total. I mentioned that for a reason, and i'll say why furthur on in the post. People are getting my rates, regardless of what you think. Please also explain how yours are generally accepted (when i've yet to see someone agree that 45k is the maximum average) at 45k per hour when even Qeltar gets up to 60k without Slayer. He also got that without stat enhancing prayer. So no, yours aren't actually generally accepted. Wrong. Qeltar gets 48k without slayer - not bad, but he's 99 in every mleee stat, paying close attention. As I showed earlier, my numbers are actually quite a bit lower this his, with REAL testing.

 

 

 

No, they don't, I very rarely miss. I haven't formally tested dust devils, but last time I was there I was averaging around 72k XP per hour.

 

You very rarely miss... do you see how vague that is. With Slayer Helmet on Dust Devils don't you also "very rarely miss"? No-one other than those who work at Jagex can actually say with 100% certaining which has the higher/lower defence. Yup. Which brings us back to our original argument: How, when I have better stats, equipment, pots, more actual combat time, and MUCH better prayers, are you getting so much more XP then me/ :roll:

 

 

 

Impossible. I used void + piety, and got a total of 104 crimson worth of charms, in continuous combat, not counting banking or setting up.

 

It isn't impossible. Mine wasn't counting banking or setting up and was also effectively continous combat. Just because it is higher than what you got doesn't make it impossible. That helps explain a little bit of your numbers. Slayer requires banking and getting tasks, which knocks the XP down 8-10% (6 minutes per 54 minute task is 10%)

 

 

 

Good. Thanks for verifying what I said about you using BOBs.

 

Actually you'll find you verified nothing. Read through and then tell me where it says I use them : . While this has no impact on what we are talking about, I don't like people saying I have said or done things when I haven't (which you continously do). I said that they can be used, not that I use them.

 

Actually, you did. You were talking about how you had plenty of space with a BOB, then later asked me where you had said you were using a BOB. I quoted that, and you responded with 'you have plenty of space with a BOB'. See the problem?

 

Actually, it is quite relevant - even over different monsters, XP will average out. He has rates for, as you said, all but 2 of them, making for 22 tasks, 32 hours, and 3000-4000 kills - enough for a good average.

 

22 different monsters means 22 hours, not 32. It doesn't even out over all monsters if he has each rate for each monster being inaccurate (inaccurate+inaccurate =/= accurate : ).

 

 

 

Don't bother, Qeltar has done that for you. Somehow I doubt you 18 kills of a particular monster would be quite as accurate as his.

 

Qeltar has tested efficiently each monster while on Slayer? I didn't know he updated his database between when I last posted and now. Nope, but he (and I'm starting to, starting with Kalphties), that slayer doesn't make a huge difference - the effect of the helm is almost balanced out by the extra time.

 

 

 

Welcome to the internet. Believe it or not, some people enjoy lying so that they can appear important or 'amazing' by receiving more XP then anyone else.

 

The videos from Zarfot I mentioned above comes to this point here. While some people may enjoy lying, this isn't one of those cases. On his way to 99 in every skill he wrote mini guides to how he trained, he has comprehensive guides on 3 of those skills, he even has some videos showing how he did train. Now after all that effort, all his numbers in every other guide non-exaggerated, would he lie about Slayer?

 

http://www.youtube.com/tofraz

 

That is his channel. While he doesn't have a video detailing his Slayer rates, it is just there to give a general idea of how he does the task. Yes, he probably would. Who's to prove him wrong? Just because none of us get anywhere close (besides your 18 dust devils), means he can say he's more efficient. I can't say that for sure; mabye he is just hyper efficient.

 

 

 

Well, take them out, and see what happens. I double checked my numbers, all of which are exactly what he had in his guides.

 

There is no reason to take them out. However I did, and guess what? I still got just over 14k Slayer xp per hour, which is 56k melee experience. Isn't it odd how based on the same numbers, the numbers are different... couldn't possibly be you being biased though and purposely dropping the rates though. I'd like to say the exact same thing about you; my numbers are still throwing out 48k.

 

 

 

Those 3 tasks with a cannon were what skewed your results slightly. Try takeing them out; I also did not include the 3 tasks he did not show.

 

Those 3 tasks which "he didn't show"... he did show. They were just in a different section that was all, I hasn't realsied that at first, but after I found them I added them in. Using a cannon doesn't matter. All that shows is that overall, you'll get more experience per hour with a cannon than without. Give me a link to where the 3 tasks he didn't show (Goraks, Scabarites, and Warped Terrorbirds) are.

 

 

 

Amazing how that 300k, when you allow for decreased chinchompa prices and the fact that that wasn't the exact threshold, lines up nicely with 400k profit per hour. Notice how, with less profit then that, the cost outweighs the time saved with it - making it slightly less then worthless. Odd, because I used 8 prayer pots in one hour at monkies, and my 8 crimsons (based on Sommas tasks, which WAS my mistake), were not as far off as your '58 crimsons' rate.

 

Err... what? You keep forgetting that using a cannon is effectively no time lost. It is addition to what you get by meleeing. The point of me mentioning the Aviansies is that if you need more than 300k profit per hour for the cannon to be worth it, by using Aviansies as your money maker, it is worth using. It has nothing to do without chinchompas, so i've no idea why you mentioned them. I never said 58 crimsons per hour. Pray tell how 8 rather than '58' is closer to 55. I must be bad at maths cause I can't see how 8 is closer. My point was that Zarfot was comparing the cannons XP to the best range XP available to determine if it was worth it - range has gotten easier to train with grey chinchompas being discovered\dropping, making a cannon less efficient. He also never said anything about the rates between 300-500k - he simply said that it was worth it a 500k, not at 300k, leaving us to assume that 300k was not the exact threshold. Thusly the bonus of a cannon, if anything (minus the earning time), would be either useless or slightly detrimental to slayer, especially at kalphites - I was in a full world, and killing most of them nearly as fast as they respawned. [hide=To read or not to read]As for the charms, 58-27 = 31, 27-8 = 19. Not that it matters, we're sounding more and more like squabbling children arguing over insignificant things with every post :wall:

 

Starting to remind me of the presidential debate... :-#[/hide]

 

 

 

 

Pardon me for asking, but what was your equipment? I personally use: HP cape, salve ammy, full proslyte w/ nezinot helm, berserker ring, dragon boots, whip and zammy book, witih prayer pots, super sets, 2 geyser titan pouches, a teletab and a SGS in my invo. I've proven that setup best; zammy book works much better then defender.

 

 

The only difference in equipment was I used a Fire Cape compared to the Hipoints Cape, I used a Rune Defender and a DDS for specials not the SGS. You'll also find the Zamorak Book isn't best. Compared to the Defender, you are less accurate and hit lower. That reduces your experience rate in order to save a bit on prayer. Also with the Cape, based on attack bonuses, I have a higher chance to hit (if only slightly), can hit higher but at a loss of 2 prayer bonus. However with the SGS instead the Prayer used would indeed by less but not by alot. If I used 3.25 prayer pots in 10 minutes 10 seconds, that equates to 19.25 prayer potions per hour. So unless over the course of an hour the SGS saves you 11.25 prayer potions you are more than likely lying again. What is even more disturbing is you even saying you use 8 per hour. 8*7,534 = 60,272 gp for just the Prayer potions, the pure sets adds about 7.4k per hour Geyser Titan's last 69 minutes and cost 3,392 each so that adds another 3k per hour. That is over 70k loss per hour yet you said it was only 40k. At least we finally got you to admit you were lying about one of the rates (even though the loss is still greater than that from what i've seen). How many hours have you tested the rune defender? I spent 2 hours with defender vs. 1 hour with zammy book, and found the prayer potion savings quite worth it. HP vs. fire cape may be worth it; I'm just point out what I used. Geyser titan was not figured into cost; however, it probably should be, as you mentioned.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting side note: I just started doing slayer for some tests, and I happened to get 2 tasks of Kalphites in a row, both tasks of 164. I went with the standard equipment, slayer helm, dfs + defender, torags for tanking, d boots, ring of life, barrows gloves, HP cape. I prayed +10% strength. I only competed with 2 people in both tasks; the first one hopped after ~20 seconds, the second one after about a minute. Both tests were in world 144, with the fastest possible respawn time. I super setted once every 10 minutes, using unicorn to heal (no combat slowdown), with super antipoison pots. I picked up drops in the fastest manor possible, but still lost a small amount of time. It took me, on average, 6 1/2 minutes to tele to Duradel, receive the task, gear up in bank, teleport to Shanty Pass, run to kalphite lair, set up and enter the room to begin killing. I measure the timing with my unicorn, which was summoned as I hit the first hit with my whip. I was paying more attention then I usually do, but a small amount of time was sometimes lost due to running across the room to attack a soldier. Soldiers have 90 hp, making for fairly quick kills. I rarely hit zero.

 

Dragonfire Shield and a Defender? Ok thats odd. Torags for tanking? and yet you also brought a Unicorn. A Unicorn provides more than enough healing even with Bandos armour. Ring of Life is useless, should at least use a Ring of Wealth. 6.5 minutes on average. You said you got them 2 in a row, you would already have on the right equipment, and the potions/food don't take long to get out. Tele to Duradel, I though you said you use NPC Contact (it is the most efficient way to train Slayer). It is also easier to use the BIQ fairy ring to get there. You also didn't use a cannon, you would have found it overal far more efficient to use it than to not. I have been trying to use your methods, so I was on standard mage. Ring of wealth would have affected drops, not XP. Yes, I spent that long on tasks; it took a significant amount of time to completely switch armors and setup invos\pots. It actually took me considerably longer, but I should do it in 6-7 minutes with practice. I was unaware of fairy rings; those could decrease the time by about a minute, and improve the XP rates by 900 an hour or so.

 

 

 

 

Impossibly hard to obtain... the answer is actually no. Exaggerations... answer is also no. Inuashakent stating that doesn't make it true either. Please show us where he actually has purposely exaggerated to make the rate higher for absolutely no gain he would receive. I'm not questioning Inuashakent's method of Slayer or such, just simply your interpretation.

 

 

 

I'm not saying he's exaggerating, but it is definetely at LEAST very hard to achieve his rates. I even said he's not exaggerating. Seriously, he calls "distractions" 1% every hour, which translates into 30 seconds/hour. Seriously, when I'm "distracted" I lose... 20 minutes per hour? :lol: (Obviously most people don't get distracted this much. ;) )

 

When I posted that I was responding to compfreak847. Compfreak847 insisted that Zarfot was either lying or exaggerating to make himself appear better. Compfreak847 even said that you were saying Zarfot was exaggerating, yet your reply says that you don't. So again compfreak847 made another mistake to further try and back up his point.

 

 

 

Lies? No.

 

Exaggerations? Probably not. <---- See?

 

Impossibly hard to obtain rates? Yes.

 

This at least shows proof that compfreak847 was yet again wrong.

 

Come to think about it, I think Slayer does give less then 70kxp/hour. Zarfot has a tendency to over exaggerate, and when he's not, nobody else can pay attention like he does. (Referring to 98% of the people who play)

 

In the 70k per hour, he was referring to melee XP. Why you are even trying to argue over this tiny point (my post saying what Inuashakent said) is beyond me.

 

 

 

As for the rates, don't worry. Like I did with kalphites, my rates which you studiously ignored, I will be testing various slayer tasks. I WILL be using testing methods, taking screenshots of EVERY step to prove it. Right now I'm on steel dragons (Not counted, assumed to be black listed :| ), and before I did gargoyles (Which cannot be counted; I was talking to friends, which slowed my XP rate and caused me to get much lower XP then I believe I could have had I been paying 100% attention), so I will start with my next task, whatever it may be. I will be factoring out any tasks during which something happened to skew the results, both good or bad (Randoms, talking to friends etc.), and hopefully I will be able to obtain some accurate numbers. I must say, however, that my kalphite results lined up nicely with Qeltar's, although came nowhere close to Zarfot's.

[ydrasil]

Wrong. Qeltar gets 48k without slayer - not bad, but he's 99 in every mleee stat, paying close attention. As I showed earlier, my numbers are actually quite a bit lower this his, with REAL testing.

 

I posted the exact number of kills per hour he can get, and the hitpoints of the monsters. Those would also have been the numbers you yourself would have used. So unless I somehow misplaced a decimal or something i've shown what he got, and it was just short of 60k (without the three cannon ones). So please go back to that sort of table thing I posted and let me know if there was an error. If there isn't, then it is indeed just short of 60k.

 

 

 

Yup. Which brings us back to our original argument: How, when I have better stats, equipment, pots, more actual combat time, and MUCH better prayers, are you getting so much more XP then me/ :roll:

 

 

Bandos > Proselyte

 

Fire Cape > Trimmed Cape

 

Defender > Unholy Book

 

Slayer Helm+Fury = Salve Ammy(e)+Helm of Neitiznot

 

I think I have the better equipment at the moment : . We went through this before, 1 Attack level and 4 Strength isn't that much better (You don't use Defence at Monkies). Maybe the reason they are better experience is simply because they are a better monster to train on. They don't hit that often, and with the Slayer Helmet their low Defence is very noticeable.

 

 

 

That helps explain a little bit of your numbers. Slayer requires banking and getting tasks, which knocks the XP down 8-10% (6 minutes per 54 minute task is 10%)

 

It doesn't take 6 minutes to get to Waterfiends. Try putting all of your Slayer equipment in the one tab in your bank. Also try to line certain items up that go together. Also have more than one of each item where possible to keeps its place in the bank. I personally have 2 Whips, 2 Pairs of Dragon Boots, 2 "barrows" gloves, multiple Defenders, multiple Fire Capes, a few DDS' and many other items on the top row of that tab. In nearly every task I use that equipment and is very easy to get out. Things like Karils, Bandos, Fury, Slayer Helm, DFS, are all at the bottom of the tab, and also are not difficult to find and get out.

 

 

 

Actually, you did. You were talking about how you had plenty of space with a BOB, then later asked me where you had said you were using a BOB. I quoted that, and you responded with 'you have plenty of space with a BOB'. See the problem?

 

I found where I mentioned BOBs, this was what I has said:

 

[hide=Quote]

Yes it is true, it is possible to pick up drops whilst losing no attack time. Click to pick up just as you attack, and then click attack again. Amazingly that accomplishes picking up th drop and no lose in attack time. You don't use guthans on Dust Devils, so that doesn't matter. This was with no familiar also remember. I am sure someone can bring food with them, and plenty spare in a BOB such as a spirit terrorbird at only 52 Summoning. Guthans can be replaced with so many more healing methods as it is. I have it, but I don't use as in nearly every task I have more than enough methods to stay at high Hitpoints. It is more efficient to use a whip compared to the warpsear also, hence why food is more efficient if you don't need to bank. Who mentioned picking up "every" drop either? Inventory space, with 2 super sets and 4 prayer potions, a teleport and other items, you still have half of your inventory spare. More than enoguh food to last the task and more than enough space for drops. Why do you even mention if you don't aclh cash drops alot? Are you not able to read anything I post? I have said many times now, that you don't alch there. You pick up the drops, bank them, and alch them later. You are still alching them.

[/hide]

 

As you see, I mentioned they could be used, but never that I use them. Nor did I say that between your inventory and a BOB you could pick up all the drops. I checked through the thread, I never even mentioned BOBs again after that. So umm... what problem?

 

 

 

Nope, but he (and I'm starting to, starting with Kalphties), that slayer doesn't make a huge difference - the effect of the helm is almost balanced out by the extra time.

 

In some cases on Qeltar's numbers the difference in using the Slayer Helmet to without was almost a 15% increase in speed. So unless it takes 9 minutes to bank (when on average it is 1/3 of that), I think that Slayer Helmet bonuses make up for the banking.

 

 

 

Yes, he probably would. Who's to prove him wrong? Just because none of us get anywhere close (besides your 18 dust devils), means he can say he's more efficient. I can't say that for sure; mabye he is just hyper efficient.

 

You've got to be kidding.... he probably would? His guide on Runecrafting is quite extensive and his efficiency rate there is very high. You admit that following what he does you get within half a dozen seconds of his times. His Thieving guide is also extensive and details the high rates for Thugs, many people have replied back with similar results. There is even a guide about that training method on these forums (suspiciously close to Zarfots explanation also : ). He wrote mini-guides to how he trained each other skill to 99 in his thread that was in the Goals & Achievements forums. I even copied them all into a Word doc :lol: . He has videos detailing his experience rates in those skills. So now I ask you, if he can do all that for every other skill, without lying or exaggerating... why would he do it for Slayer? That makes no sense what so ever. Again I ask, what would he have to gain if he did? Try and follow his methods like his Runecrafting guide and you will notice a significant increase in your experience per hour. Also note that some of the guides for each task weren't even his. The Spiritual Mages and Warriors (Warriors from when Duradel still assigned them), Cave Horrors and chinning Nechryaels came from other players. So yes, those rates are achieveable by other people.

 

 

 

I'd like to say the exact same thing about you; my numbers are still throwing out 48k.

 

Refer to the first thing I quoted this post. Check the numbers in the table I provided. There were no mistakes.

 

 

 

Give me a link to where the 3 tasks he didn't show (Goraks, Scabarites, and Warped Terrorbirds) are.

 

Sure (it wasn't Scabarites though :-# ). Here they are:

 

Goraks

 

Spiritual Mages

 

Warped Terrorbirds

 

 

 

My point was that Zarfot was comparing the cannons XP to the best range XP available to determine if it was worth it - range has gotten easier to train with grey chinchompas being discovered\dropping, making a cannon less efficient. He also never said anything about the rates between 300-500k - he simply said that it was worth it a 500k, not at 300k, leaving us to assume that 300k was not the exact threshold. Thusly the bonus of a cannon, if anything (minus the earning time), would be either useless or slightly detrimental to slayer, especially at kalphites - I was in a full world, and killing most of them nearly as fast as they respawned.

 

Actually, he didn't compare it to ayn other method of training Range. He determined if it was worth it because they hardly add any time, and that shooting approximately 1000 cannonballs uses up 2.5 mins (overall time to set up and refill). If you value time at only 500k an hour, it is equivalent to 57k Range and 28k Slayer experience per hour. If you value your time at 1mil per hour, then it is equivalent to 104k Range xp/h and 56k Slayer xp/h. Just because another way to train Range exists, doesn't have any impact on the efficiency of a cannon. Why? Because you are still going to average the same amount of experience per cannonball on average and they will still cost about the same. They will still only use a very little amount of time.

 

 

 

[hide=To read or not to read]As for the charms, 58-27 = 31, 27-8 = 19. Not that it matters, we're sounding more and more like squabbling children arguing over insignificant things with every post :wall:

 

Starting to remind me of the presidential debate... :-#[/hide]

 

 

Well that is because the average crimsons per hour hour isn't 27. Using Qeltars rates the drop rate was 39.6, or 40 crimsons per hour (equivalent to, not actually 40 crimsons). Keep in mind I stated the average was 55 (not 58) and you said it was 8. So 55-40 = 15, 40-8 = 32. Keep in mind my rate was based on slayer and facts, not made up. Qeltar was without Slayer and not training as efficiently as possible, so yes, the rate is higher still on Slayer.

 

 

 

How many hours have you tested the rune defender? I spent 2 hours with defender vs. 1 hour with zammy book, and found the prayer potion savings quite worth it. HP vs. fire cape may be worth it; I'm just point out what I used. Geyser titan was not figured into cost; however, it probably should be, as you mentioned.

 

Put simply, the Defender has +11 extra to the Attack bonus, so it is more accurate. The Defender also has +5 extra Strength bonus, so you can hit highee. How does it not average more experience per hour? Again as I said, it comes down to only the saving on prayer potions. I'll go back and test the rates once more with a HP Cape, Unholy Book, and using the SGS for specials. But even now I can see the usage of prayer potions exceeding 8 per hour.

 

 

 

I have been trying to use your methods, so I was on standard mage. Ring of wealth would have affected drops, not XP. Yes, I spent that long on tasks; it took a significant amount of time to completely switch armors and setup invos\pots. It actually took me considerably longer, but I should do it in 6-7 minutes with practice. I was unaware of fairy rings; those could decrease the time by about a minute, and improve the XP rates by 900 an hour or so.

 

So you were trying to use my methods, while on standard mage... I use Lunar. Ring of wealth wouldn't have affected experience, but it would have affected average profit per hour, whereas Ring of life is useless here. My inventory for these consists of House tabs (I have these on every task and I always withdraw 10, so they are alrways already in my inventory), a Holy Wrench (also already in my inventory), SGS (already in inven, I grab my Lunar Staff and Rope, 2000 cannonballs and the 3 cannon pieces. Depending on task number either 1 or 2 super sets, 1 superantipoison(+), around 3 prayer potions, I usually use a Unicorn here also since a combat won't help too much as the Kalphites die to quick. Finally 1-2 super energies and the rest food. All of those items for me come from 2 different tabs only. The gear you wear barely ever changes. I might have to switch to a Defender from a DFS, or Bandos from Karils. It really does come down to practice as well as an organised bank.

 

 

 

Come to think about it, I think Slayer does give less then 70kxp/hour. Zarfot has a tendency to over exaggerate, and when he's not, nobody else can pay attention like he does. (Referring to 98% of the people who play)

 

In the 70k per hour, he was referring to melee XP. Why you are even trying to argue over this tiny point (my post saying what Inuashakent said) is beyond me.

 

Couple posts ago he then said Zarfot wasn't exaggerating, so i'll just ignore this now : .

 

 

 

As for the rates, don't worry. Like I did with kalphites, my rates which you studiously ignored, I will be testing various slayer tasks. I WILL be using testing methods, taking screenshots of EVERY step to prove it. Right now I'm on steel dragons (Not counted, assumed to be black listed :| ), and before I did gargoyles (Which cannot be counted; I was talking to friends, which slowed my XP rate and caused me to get much lower XP then I believe I could have had I been paying 100% attention), so I will start with my next task, whatever it may be. I will be factoring out any tasks during which something happened to skew the results, both good or bad (Randoms, talking to friends etc.), and hopefully I will be able to obtain some accurate numbers. I must say, however, that my kalphite results lined up nicely with Qeltar's, although came nowhere close to Zarfot's.

 

I didn't ignore the rates, but if a task of 164 Kalphites takes you almost an hour, you are going very fast at all. Try using a cannon, it will significantly increase the speed of this task. You didn't come close to Zarfot's because you didn't use a cannon.

 

 

 

Yesterday I had a task of 156 Black Demons. I got there and summoned my Geyser Titan, I was using superhuman strength and pure sets every 10 mins. My Titan ran out of time and disappeared so I summoned another straight away (I has swapped 1 prayer potion for a super restore as it restores summoning points). I finished the task with 66 minutes remaining on the 2nd one. Overall the task took 72 minutes and I got 24,492 Slayer experience. 72/60 = 1.2, 24,492/1.2 = 20,410 Slayer experience in one hour. That is over 80k experience.

 

 

 

I also had a task of 77 Skeletal Wyverns, when I got there I summoned my Unicorn, I also used piety throughout the task (trust me, this task is a great one for piety). I ran out of supplies and only had a few to go, so I quickly banked and came back. My Unicorn ran out of time, and I think it was 2 or 3 Whip hits after that I killed the Skeletal Wyvern, and task finished. Now these guys have 200 Hitpoints, but give 210 Slayer experience. Therefore I got 16,170 Slayer experience in 54 minutes, which is 17,967 Slayer experience per hour. I also got 61,600 melee experience in 54 minutes, which is 68,444 experience per hour. The 2nd slowest task (other than Mithril Dragons), that I haven't blocked was getting 68k experience per hour, with a bank trip during the task even. So yes, I do believe your Slayer rates are indeed quite low.

 

 

 

Also Note Zarfot gets 22k Slayer experience per hour at Black Demons (I was only 2k less) and he gets about 19k at Skeletal Wyverns, which includes one bank per task (I was only 1k less). So yes, his rates aren't impossible to achieve, you just have to be willing to follow his advice.

[Inuashakent]

Also Note Zarfot gets 22k Slayer experience per hour at Black Demons (I was only 2k less) and he gets about 19k at Skeletal Wyverns, which includes one bank per task (I was only 1k less). So yes, his rates aren't impossible to achieve, you just have to be willing to follow his advice.

 

You're doing a test, which means 100% attention...

 

 

 

And you're STILL not achieving the same xp rates. Trust me, Zarfot is too good.

[Zarfot]

(edit: two-eight-seven, lol).

 

 

 

I'm very disappointed that so much of this thread has become debate and flaming about me.

 

 

 

As far as I can remember, every slayer xp rate for a task given in my guide was timed for one task. However, in most cases I later timed additional tasks to try to beat my old xp rate. My goal is not to get the highest possible xp rate to put in the guide but rather find an average xp rate for me for that task. In any case, for me there were not large variations in xp rate from task to task. It is silly to claim that you need to kill some huge number of monsters to get a good average. A video of killing 18 dust devils should indeed be quite close to the average rate. Six minute tests of many skills are rarely off by 10, let alone 5 or less, percent.

 

 

 

I never exaggerate any of my xp rates, period. It is very frustrating when people make ridiculous claims to the contrary. Most of my videos have actually been in response to challenges by people claiming that my xp rates are not possible. For example, Lucipher6, ranked rather high on the highscores, claimed that over 70k mining xp per hour was "complete bs" yet was somewhat silent when I posted a video that proved 75.4k is possible. I have had some quarrels ingame but usually the other person ends up apologizing to me. Why I would make up xp rates just to get famous is beyond me; surely I would have posted a bank video and skillcape emote video by now if I wanted more attention?

 

 

 

I saw someone claim that I concentrate 100% of the time. How that would be possible while maintaining three large guides, a Youtube account, an agility guild, and formerly a Goal thread, I don't know. How I would be posting on this forum if I was really concentrating 100% of the time, I don't know. In reality, while slaying, I was almost always multitasking to help pass the time. Alt-tab is a great keyboard shortcut, by the way. Whether I listen to RuneScape music or not has nothing to do with the topic of this thread and how someone would know what I listen to just based on a few videos that I let the RuneScape music play on, I don't know. (In reality I listen to other music the majority of the time.)

 

 

 

Just because none of the several people debating here has achieved certain xp rates I have gotten doesn't mean they are unreachable for anyone other than me. I have many friends ingame who achieve similar rates. Many times I have found myself challenged to achieve an xp rate that someone I know has achieved.

 

 

 

The 70k melee xp per hour on average I stated in the guide should be fairly accurate for someone slaying using fast methods; however, I did not acquire that number with an actual long-term test with that piece of data in mind but rather with some estimation. If anything it may be a bit low; I may actually have been getting closer to 80k. And just because I'm stating some xp rate doesn't mean the "average" person gets 50% of that or whatever. If you're that slow at slayer I think 110k melee xp/hour at Zombie Monkeys is very questionable.

 

 

 

In response to the topic of the thread, I'd hesitate to post real calculations because someone would instantly dismiss them as wrong because supposedly I pay 100% attention or have 2306236 bill cash or whatever. I'm sure that everyone would agree that slayer is a skill, however, and to train it you also get xp in melee, range, hitpoints, and get charms. If you are going to have to train slayer anyway, say for a total level goal, why train those other skills using other methods? Only in the case that someone sees slayer xp as worthless or near worthless would it be debatable that slayer is not worth it. I do not think it is reasonable to label xp in any skill as worthless, however. So what if you won't end up camping at some high level slayer monster to make cash? Not everything is about money.

 

 

 

If all that matters is how "useful" a skill is, why would ANYONE train cooking, crafting, construction, agility, herblore, thieving, fletching, smithing, firemaking, woodcutting, and maybe other skills too depending on your opinions, since all of those are generally poor moneymakers compared to other parts of the game? What is money good for anyway; to train more skills or to make more money?

 

 

 

In my opinion, the value of xp in a skill should not be assessed only by how useful the skill is. If you train slayer, every hour of slayer training is shown on the highscores in your slayer xp, but all that other xp may be considered just extra.

 

 

 

Obviously training continuously at Monkey Zombies is much faster melee xp than training slayer. Obviously killing Waterfiends or Bursting/Barraging Rock Lobsters is much faster summoning xp than training slayer. Obviously you could make more money killing Aviansies or the God Wars Dungeon bosses than by training slayer. You probably could get almost as fast melee xp and way more summoning xp by meleeing waterfiends instead of training slayer. But none of those get faster slayer xp than training slayer. It's as simple as that and whether you agree with that or not is as simple as whether you think gaining xp in skills that are not necessarily "useful" is valuable or not.

 

 

 

Arguing about as fundamental a belief as that is silly.

 

 

 

It's also silly to argue about xp rates that have been proven to be possible and to discredit someone who has repeatedly proven xp rates when challenged.

[ydrasil]

You're doing a test, which means 100% attention...

 

 

 

And you're STILL not achieving the same xp rates. Trust me, Zarfot is too good.

 

I'm not maxed stats remember ;) .So not achieveing, but you can't deny that it is close. I even just had a task of 186 Abbreannt Spectres, took me 21 mins. Just did a task of 151 Bloodveld, took me 31 mins. The Spectres averages out to 47.8k Slayer xp per hour. The Bloodvelds averages out to 54.4k Slayer xp/h. Hell, my task of Aberrant Spectres was faster than what it says in Zarfot's guide : . The Bloodvelds I was switching between piety and superhuman strength. So yes, those rates are achieveable (and beatable :lol: ).

 

 

 

Not much I can add on to what Zarfot said either. I have simply been trying to show overall, Slayer is more efficient than Zombie Monkies, doesn't mean everyone has to do it though.

 

 

 

I also just got this from the Bloodveld task :thumbsup: :

 

[Ravenkana]

I'm very disappointed that so much of this thread has become debate and flaming about me.

 

 

 

As far as I can remember, every slayer xp rate for a task given in my guide was timed for one task. However, in most cases I later timed additional tasks to try to beat my old xp rate. My goal is not to get the highest possible xp rate to put in the guide but rather find an average xp rate for me for that task. In any case, for me there were not large variations in xp rate from task to task. It is silly to claim that you need to kill some huge number of monsters to get a good average. A video of killing 18 dust devils should indeed be quite close to the average rate. Six minute tests of many skills are rarely off by 10, let alone 5 or less, percent.

 

 

 

I never exaggerate any of my xp rates, period. It is very frustrating when people make ridiculous claims to the contrary. Most of my videos have actually been in response to challenges by people claiming that my xp rates are not possible. For example, Lucipher6, ranked rather high on the highscores, claimed that over 70k mining xp per hour was "complete bs" yet was somewhat silent when I posted a video that proved 75.4k is possible. I have had some quarrels ingame but usually the other person ends up apologizing to me. Why I would make up xp rates just to get famous is beyond me; surely I would have posted a bank video and skillcape emote video by now if I wanted more attention?

 

 

 

I saw someone claim that I concentrate 100% of the time. How that would be possible while maintaining three large guides, a Youtube account, an agility guild, and formerly a Goal thread, I don't know. How I would be posting on this forum if I was really concentrating 100% of the time, I don't know. In reality, while slaying, I was almost always multitasking to help pass the time. Alt-tab is a great keyboard shortcut, by the way. Whether I listen to RuneScape music or not has nothing to do with the topic of this thread and how someone would know what I listen to just based on a few videos that I let the RuneScape music play on, I don't know. (In reality I listen to other music the majority of the time.)

 

 

 

Just because none of the several people debating here has achieved certain xp rates I have gotten doesn't mean they are unreachable for anyone other than me. I have many friends ingame who achieve similar rates. Many times I have found myself challenged to achieve an xp rate that someone I know has achieved.

 

 

 

The 70k melee xp per hour on average I stated in the guide should be fairly accurate for someone slaying using fast methods; however, I did not acquire that number with an actual long-term test with that piece of data in mind but rather with some estimation. If anything it may be a bit low; I may actually have been getting closer to 80k. And just because I'm stating some xp rate doesn't mean the "average" person gets 50% of that or whatever. If you're that slow at slayer I think 110k melee xp/hour at Zombie Monkeys is very questionable.

 

 

 

In response to the topic of the thread, I'd hesitate to post real calculations because someone would instantly dismiss them as wrong because supposedly I pay 100% attention or have 2306236 bill cash or whatever. I'm sure that everyone would agree that slayer is a skill, however, and to train it you also get xp in melee, range, hitpoints, and get charms. If you are going to have to train slayer anyway, say for a total level goal, why train those other skills using other methods? Only in the case that someone sees slayer xp as worthless or near worthless would it be debatable that slayer is not worth it. I do not think it is reasonable to label xp in any skill as worthless, however. So what if you won't end up camping at some high level slayer monster to make cash? Not everything is about money.

 

 

 

If all that matters is how "useful" a skill is, why would ANYONE train cooking, crafting, construction, agility, herblore, thieving, fletching, smithing, firemaking, woodcutting, and maybe other skills too depending on your opinions, since all of those are generally poor moneymakers compared to other parts of the game? What is money good for anyway; to train more skills or to make more money?

 

 

 

In my opinion, the value of xp in a skill should not be assessed only by how useful the skill is. If you train slayer, every hour of slayer training is shown on the highscores in your slayer xp, but all that other xp may be considered just extra.

 

 

 

Obviously training continuously at Monkey Zombies is much faster melee xp than training slayer. Obviously killing Waterfiends or Bursting/Barraging Rock Lobsters is much faster summoning xp than training slayer. Obviously you could make more money killing Aviansies or the God Wars Dungeon bosses than by training slayer. You probably could get almost as fast melee xp and way more summoning xp by meleeing waterfiends instead of training slayer. But none of those get faster slayer xp than training slayer. It's as simple as that and whether you agree with that or not is as simple as whether you think gaining xp in skills that are not necessarily "useful" is valuable or not.

 

 

 

Arguing about as fundamental a belief as that is silly.

 

 

 

It's also silly to argue about xp rates that have been proven to be possible and to discredit someone who has repeatedly proven xp rates when challenged.

No offense if I'm wrong, but it seems a little suspicious that you started an account, today, on this site for the specific purpose of saying that your records ARE correct.

[Zarfot]

Ravenkana, it is false to claim that "records" is synonomous with rates. I never state absolute maximums as if they are average rates.

 

 

 

I did start this account today so I could reply on this rant, but I'm sure you would have done the the same if you were me. Previously I hadn't much interest in joining TIF since my threads are on RSOF and I think RSOF are great. However, it was quite annoying to read this thread where people are constantly quoting and misquoting from my guides and making whacky claims about me. I browse TIF from time to time and read through some threads but never have I seen such lengthy discussion about myself and so many false claims being made about myself and my guides.

 

 

 

Is there anything wrong with defending rates that I have achieved and accurately timed? If you are implying that the very act of defending myself suggests that I am lying, I am interested to hear your logic. In this thread many people have stated their points of view about slayer and about my rates and I simply have posted my own opinion back.

 

 

 

I also contributed my opinions towards the topic of the rant. It is silly to claim that my post was made purely to defend my claims.