Jump to content

Slayer Sucks


compfreak847

Recommended Posts

The only proof I've seen so far of your numbers is your killing of 18 dust devils in 4 minutes and however many seconds. Your numbers are far above what almost everyone else has posted, whereas mine, although I didn't post a video of me killing a certain slayer monster 18 times, are in line with the generally accepted 'averages', which I have tested and found to be quite accurate.

 

That is still proof. Keep that rate is that much experience per hour. Don't tell me I did anything special to get that many kills either, all I did was make sure I was always attacking a Dust Devil. My numbers are not far above what everyone else has posted either. One person even said that it averages at 65k melee xp/h as I said. What generally accepted averages anyway? The fact that I and a few others have disagreed of your extremeley pathetic rate must mean it isn't generally accepted. Also, "certain slayer monsters"? Which monsters? How did you kill them? Did you use super/pure sets? Did you use prayer (superhuman strength)? You can't simply say I did a task and it is within an accepted average. No conclusion can be made from that. 'Certain slayer monsters', as in all of the monsters I have received over the last 50 tasks, all done with superhuman strength.

 

 

 

 

 

The 55 crimson per hour for slayer simply reinforces my point; there is NO possible way you are getting that. I usually get around ~6 crimson per hour training slayer; mostly due to the many cruddy tasks I get (Baliskis, anyone?). I consider your '55 crimson an hour' statistic slightly hilarious and wildly impossible.

 

Getting 55 per hour reinforces your point? Pray tell how it did that? Keep in mind that number was from Inuashakent saying it gets you to 96 Summoning (which I agree with). However, I only use 8.8Mil experience instead and the rate 48 crimsons per hour. Keep in mind that isn't just crimsons, that is gold/green/blue factored in on top of the crimson you receive to being 48. I explained that in my post also. But hell, I seem to have found your problem. You're using Sumona. You'll average alot better experience and charms when using Duradel.

 

 

 

I attained the number of 55 by working out how long it would take to get from 80-99 Slayer (11mil experience) at the rate of 22.5k Slayer xp/h (higher can easily be averaged). From that same amount of time you also receive enough charms for 96 Summoning. That means 19,330 summoning experience per hour. Next I worked out the average experience per crimson from 52-96 Summoning was, it was approximately 350 each. 19,330/350 = 55 crimsons per hour. I consider 55 crimsons per hour from Slayer a sheer impossibility. Aside from waterfiends, no slayer monsters can get that high of a rate - Black Demons, the 2nd best, get roughly 47 crimson worth of charms per hour (Source: Qelter's Beastuary, based on hundreds of hours and many months of dedicated testing by a person with all 99 melee's). Dust devils, the 3rd best, get about 46 crimson worth, and the number drops steadily after that. The average crimson per hour is roughly 9 for all of his tested monsters (several hundred) averaged.

 

 

 

 

 

My equations were somewhat confusing, not impossibly. I simply established that the slayer XP was roughly twice as difficult to obtain as melee XP; compared it to the current 'best' ways of training melee\earning money, and came up with a final number detailing how much time you were wasting training slayer. To convert this into simple terms, I used that spare time in earning money with avansies - which also gives significant XP, which is factored in using the difficulty of training range with chinchompas, the most efficient manner. Slightly difficult to follow, not impossible.

 

Maybe not impossibly, but since you can't or won't redo them in a clearer way so that others may understand them, it doesn't really show anything. There were certain sections where I understood what you were doing, but most of it was far from being comprehensible.

That's not my fault; in light of what I said, you should be able to easily go back and read. You could even do the calculations yourself; they would look identical to mine. With my explanation, they are quite easy to follow.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

'Certain slayer monsters', as in all of the monsters I have received over the last 50 tasks, all done with superhuman strength.

 

Can't you give a straight answer? What were the monsters? From what you have said you use Sumona which is one possibl reason for the lowered rate. Did you use pure/super sets? What did you wear when killing them? Did you waste time by alching there (as you always keep mentiong)?

 

 

 

 

 

I consider 55 crimsons per hour from Slayer a sheer impossibility. Aside from waterfiends, no slayer monsters can get that high of a rate - Black Demons, the 2nd best, get roughly 47 crimson worth of charms per hour (Source: Qelter's Beastuary, based on hundreds of hours and many months of dedicated testing by a person with all 99 melee's). Dust devils, the 3rd best, get about 46 crimson worth, and the number drops steadily after that. The average crimson per hour is roughly 9 for all of his tested monsters (several hundred) averaged.

 

It is possible to kill up to 140 Black Demons per hour with superhuman strength. They have about a 46% crimson charm drop rate meaning you will get 64 crimsons per hour on average. You'll also get approximately 32 gold charms, the equivalent of about 7.9 crimsons. You'll also get 15 green charms, the equivalent of about 5.8 crimsons and also maybe 1 blue charm, worth a bit over 2 crimsons. That is the equivalent of 80 crimsons per hour for Blace Demons. I checked Qeltar's beastiary, the reason his is so low is that it wasn't during Slayer, he got 98 kills in one hour. He also didn't use a Fire Cape, which would increase the kill rate just slightly. Also, he more than likely did not use any stat enhancing prayer.

 

 

 

I could do the same thing for Dust Devils, but simply with a 24% drop rate, you can get 60 crimsons + whatever other charms per hour. His average doesn't matter as it wasn't during Slayer. Using minimal equipment and no stat enhancing prayer. All of these factors increases the average per hour drammatically.

 

 

 

 

 

That's not my fault; in light of what I said, you should be able to easily go back and read. You could even do the calculations yourself; they would look identical to mine. With my explanation, they are quite easy to follow.

 

I can't do them because I've no idea what rates you were using. Even still, I will read through them again, but I know more than likely I will feel the same way about it unless you make it clear.

ydrasil.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

'Certain slayer monsters', as in all of the monsters I have received over the last 50 tasks, all done with superhuman strength.

 

Can't you give a straight answer? What were the monsters? From what you have said you use Sumona which is one possibl reason for the lowered rate. Did you use pure/super sets? What did you wear when killing them? Did you waste time by alching there (as you always keep mentiong)? I got them about half and half from Sumona and duradell. I was using super sets, obviously, potting once every 5 minutes. I never alched; I was on lunar magic using contact other to get tasks as fast as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

I consider 55 crimsons per hour from Slayer a sheer impossibility. Aside from waterfiends, no slayer monsters can get that high of a rate - Black Demons, the 2nd best, get roughly 47 crimson worth of charms per hour (Source: Qelter's Beastuary, based on hundreds of hours and many months of dedicated testing by a person with all 99 melee's). Dust devils, the 3rd best, get about 46 crimson worth, and the number drops steadily after that. The average crimson per hour is roughly 9 for all of his tested monsters (several hundred) averaged.

 

It is possible to kill up to 140 Black Demons per hour with superhuman strength. They have about a 46% crimson charm drop rate meaning you will get 64 crimsons per hour on average. You'll also get approximately 32 gold charms, the equivalent of about 7.9 crimsons. You'll also get 15 green charms, the equivalent of about 5.8 crimsons and also maybe 1 blue charm, worth a bit over 2 crimsons. That is the equivalent of 80 crimsons per hour for Blace Demons. I checked Qeltar's beastiary, the reason his is so low is that it wasn't during Slayer, he got 98 kills in one hour. He also didn't use a Fire Cape, which would increase the kill rate just slightly. Also, he more than likely did not use any stat enhancing prayer.

 

 

 

I could do the same thing for Dust Devils, but simply with a 24% drop rate, you can get 60 crimsons + whatever other charms per hour. His average doesn't matter as it wasn't during Slayer. Using minimal equipment and no stat enhancing prayer. All of these factors increases the average per hour drammatically. True, slayer helm would boost XP by about 20%, and superhuman strenght another 8-9%. However, his figures are for steady killing, without time to bank or get new tasks. You could possible increase his average by another 25%, leaving you with 11 crimson worth per hour.

 

 

 

 

 

That's not my fault; in light of what I said, you should be able to easily go back and read. You could even do the calculations yourself; they would look identical to mine. With my explanation, they are quite easy to follow.

 

I can't do them because I've no idea what rates you were using. Even still, I will read through them again, but I know more than likely I will feel the same way about it unless you make it clear. It's quite clear; I state all of my rates in the calculations.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Queltar's rates are off by a slight bit... enough to make a difference (Come on, nobody can be accurate in 200+ monsters... but not by much...), he probably doesn't use pray, and he doesn't use a Black mask.

 

 

 

Very good job though, Qeltar.

 

 

 

Scarabites, Nechryaels, Abyssal demons, dust devils, bloodvelds (I think... along with Dagannoths. Golds are good if aquired fast.) Fire giants, and alot I can't remember :XD: are all great to name a few.

[Summoning guide (AOW)] [Slayer guide] [Melee & Brawl player]

inuyashakent-2.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Queltar's rates are off by a slight bit... enough to make a difference (Come on, nobody can be accurate in 200+ monsters... but not by much...), he probably doesn't use pray, and he doesn't use a Black mask.

 

 

 

Very good job though, Qeltar.

 

 

 

Scarabites, Nechryaels, Abyssal demons, dust devils, bloodvelds (I think... along with Dagannoths. Golds are good if aquired fast.) Fire giants, and alot I can't remember :XD: are all great to name a few.

 

All of which are covered in his guide, besides scarabites ;) I'm glad I remember that database though; it's a wealth of information on almost every monster in the game - and his figures seem more believable then '68k melee XP per hour at iron dragons, 55 charms per hour with slayer' -.-

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Queltar's rates are off by a slight bit... enough to make a difference (Come on, nobody can be accurate in 200+ monsters... but not by much...), he probably doesn't use pray, and he doesn't use a Black mask.

 

 

 

Very good job though, Qeltar.

 

 

 

Scarabites, Nechryaels, Abyssal demons, dust devils, bloodvelds (I think... along with Dagannoths. Golds are good if aquired fast.) Fire giants, and alot I can't remember :XD: are all great to name a few.

 

All of which are covered in his guide, besides scarabites ;) I'm glad I remember that database though; it's a wealth of information on almost every monster in the game - and his figures seem more believable then '68k melee XP per hour at iron dragons, 55 charms per hour with slayer' -.-

 

I'm not saying his rates are wrong, just off by a bit. (10% maybe?)

 

 

 

Yeah, his database is useful, but I have most of that memorized already before it. :ugeek:

 

 

 

:ugeek: plx?

[Summoning guide (AOW)] [Slayer guide] [Melee & Brawl player]

inuyashakent-2.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Queltar's rates are off by a slight bit... enough to make a difference (Come on, nobody can be accurate in 200+ monsters... but not by much...), he probably doesn't use pray, and he doesn't use a Black mask.

 

 

 

Very good job though, Qeltar.

 

 

 

Scarabites, Nechryaels, Abyssal demons, dust devils, bloodvelds (I think... along with Dagannoths. Golds are good if aquired fast.) Fire giants, and alot I can't remember :XD: are all great to name a few.

 

All of which are covered in his guide, besides scarabites ;) I'm glad I remember that database though; it's a wealth of information on almost every monster in the game - and his figures seem more believable then '68k melee XP per hour at iron dragons, 55 charms per hour with slayer' -.-

 

I'm not saying his rates are wrong, just off by a bit. (10% maybe?)

 

 

 

Yeah, his database is useful, but I have most of that memorized already before it. :ugeek:

 

 

 

:ugeek: plx?

 

Same here, but it goes towards helping prove that slayer isn't 55 crimsons an hour, (11, more like it), and that iron dragons are aren't 68k melee XP per hour :|

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I find slayer to be enjoyable and a decent moneymaker. I like training combat through slayer because I don't get bored training on the same thing constantly, tasks are level appropriate, and I get some good drops, lots of charms, and a ton of clue scrolls.

 

 

 

Slayer is further great because of the new points system. It makes you nice money if you trade points for slayer dart runes, especially now that pvp has been released. So if you factor in clue rewards (which can be worth over 12m if you get lucky), monster drops, and swapping points for runes slayer can make some pretty sweet cash.

 

 

 

If you want to talk charms, it depends on the task. At waterfiends you can get well over 70 crimson charms per hour. More like 100.

Seraphyna.png

Seraphyna.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got them about half and half from Sumona and duradell. I was using super sets, obviously, potting once every 5 minutes. I never alched; I was on lunar magic using contact other to get tasks as fast as possible.

 

Well there is your problem. Duradel assigns better tasks than Sumona, and in better numbers. We also see that you are now being hypocritical just so it suits you. "Oh but at Dust Devils what about all the time alching". You just said here over the past 50 tasks that you yourself do not alch there and that you use Lunar. So now we have established that you super set every 5 minutes (no need, evrey 10 minutes is sufficient), you use superhuman strength, you can get a new task very quickly. Amazingly that is exactly what I do (except for how often I pot, and the Slayer master). So isn't it amazing with my "much worse" stats, potting less often (which would give reduced experience, but only barely), that I average way higher than what you do? I think that is astounding, and can only surmise that you are purposely downplaying how good Slayer is to make your point.

 

 

 

 

 

True, slayer helm would boost XP by about 20%, and superhuman strenght another 8-9%. However, his figures are for steady killing, without time to bank or get new tasks. You could possible increase his average by another 25%, leaving you with 11 crimson worth per hour.

 

11 crimsons per hour is abyssmal. Seeing as Slayer would get you well into 90s in Summoning, the average has to be higher. Unless you are actually going to tell me you honestly do not believe that it will not get inot the 90s via Slayer (when others have trained only slayer for charms and have gotten that result)? Keep in mind regardless of how fast you slay, you will always end with the average amount of charms. Want to know what is amazing also? Even if someone you only managed to get 11.5k Slayer xp/h (you'd have to be in the 70s for that really), getting to 99 Slayer from 80 would take 956 hours. That many you would average 10k Summoning experience per hour which is about 28.6 crimsons per hour (to get to 96 Summoning), more than 3x higher higher than what you believe is possible. Keep in mind that your apparent 8 came from without Slayer Helmet and no prayer, so of course it is going to be higher.

 

 

 

It's quite clear; I state all of my rates in the calculations.

 

But your rates are wrong and logic used are wrong. For example in that post you said "plus the 8 crimson charms for 2.6k Summoning XP", which I just above have proved is wrong.

 

 

 

[hide=Your Calc's + My response]Next you say this - "meaning 55k XP per hour at 20k loss from 1-99, half of Monkies, meaning redemption in the form of Avansies would grant 237 hours X 400k = 94.8 MILLION GP". I understand the 55k per hour and 20k loss as you implying training at Monkies at half speed. But then 1-99 of what? Redemption from aviansies for what reason? Where did the 237 hours come from? You then say this "plus 4.8m from 'training' at 'monkies' = 99.6 MILLION, the COST of 99 slayer". You then say you made 4.8m from training at monkies at the loss of 20k per hour... shouldn't that have been taken off the 94.8 not added? As it was a "loss" not a "gain".

 

 

 

You keep mentioning that on page 10 you explained what you did at each section. This is what you said:

 

 

 

I simply established that the slayer XP was roughly twice as difficult to obtain as melee XP; compared it to the current 'best' ways of training melee\earning money, and came up with a final number detailing how much time you were wasting training slayer. To convert this into simple terms, I used that spare time in earning money with avansies - which also gives significant XP, which is factored in using the difficulty of training range with chinchompas, the most efficient manner. Slightly difficult to follow, not impossible.

 

 

 

Wait a sec.... that explained what now?

 

 

 

Anyway, the next thing in your calculations was "If we factor in the XP from Avansies, you would end up wasting considerably more, totaling 1/2 of our numbers below (details also below), or 33.5M". How much experience? You never mentioned it, for all we know you made up a number. 33.5mil.... from what? Where did that come from?

 

 

 

So what was next? This - "The numbers multiply even more quickly if we use a lower XP rate; at my figures of 45k XP an hour + 11.25k slayer XP = 56.25k XP total per hour, 90k - 56.25k = 33.75k slayer XP that has to be made up, or 1/4th the total XP lost from training, meaning - 22.5k XP per hour at 10k loss from 1-99, half of zombies - meaning the 'cost' of slayer would be 199.2 MILLION GP". Your rates are far, far off accurate, as it is easily possible to average over 20k slayer xp/h. For some reason you are now doing 1/4 the experience at Zombie Monkies... but why? What possible point does that show? "Oh look if I train 4x as slow at this, that must mean Slayer costs 199.2mil!" See how little sense that makes?

 

 

 

Now for the next sentence - "Again, add the XP from avansies - approx. 16.6m XP, factor in that XP from chinchompas, the best method of training, would cost 69 hours and 30 million, plus the 69 hours from avansies giving another 27 million GP lost, plus the XP of 2.4m, meaning another 10 hours of chinchompas and 4.5m cost, making for another 4.5m and 4m from opportunity costs lost, and so on in an infinity decreasing loop, ending with about 67m extra cost tacked on.". Woah, thats just one sentence? Also you are somehow now getting 16.6m from Aviansies with no reasoning of how you obtained that number. Only thing that I think is right that is what half the number as earlier on... but with no explanation as how you got that either. Factor in the xp from chinchompas? What experience? You hadn't mentioned that at all before hand, and someone it is 69 hours and costs 30mil. Somehow also 69 hours at aviansies and another 27mil lost, and somehow 2.4mil experience. Meaning another 10 hours of chinchompas? Where did that come from? None of that makes sense.

 

 

 

Your next one is funny - "The final cost: 266.2m GP LOST for 99 slayer, based on time, XP, summoning XP, and drops.". Yet in your entire calculations you never added Summoning experience in or any type of average made from Slayer. Somehow you got to 266.2m loss? It's just like magic! :lol:[/hide]

 

 

 

All of which are covered in his guide, besides scarabites ;) I'm glad I remember that database though; it's a wealth of information on almost every monster in the game - and his figures seem more believable then '68k melee XP per hour at iron dragons, 55 charms per hour with slayer' -.-

 

 

 

I already mentioned this but you seem to always miss it. I said my calculations were based on 48, not 55 crimsons per hour. You also seem to think it is impossible to get 68k Slayer xp/h, keep in mind I never said that was the average but that was with maxed stats and piety and while on Slayer. Since that is also the 3rd slowest task there is, every other task only gets higher.

ydrasil.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11...?

 

 

 

If Summoning:Slayer was 7:10, it has to be at least 50.

 

Which sounds impossible to me. Even if you boost Qeltar's charms by 25%, only 3 tasks, dust devils, waterfiends, and black demons, break that level.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

287

 

 

 

It was a nice read. It gives much different views on what I think of Slayer, and you're perfectly entitled to those. However, everyone's different. Your opinions are yours. Me? I like Slayer personally. It gives me something to focus on attacking for my experience while going for 99 combat skills, it provided me a reason to train my Summoning to 70, and while it may not be the absolute best money maker, it's enough to keep me slaying. 88 tasks done, still going strong.

 

 

 

Very nicely planned out arguement.

Requiescat in pace, Shiva "Anarith" Kumar.
dea6a17b9c.png
351 Quest Points|99 Strength|99 Attack|99 Constitution|99 Defence|99 Magic|138 Combat|99 Summoning|99 Slayer|99 Ranged|99 Firemaking|99 Dungeoneering|99 Cooking|99 Prayer|99 Runecrafting|99 Smithing|99 Fletching|99 Construction|99 Farming|99 Fishing|99 Herblore|99 Crafting|99 Agility
True friends are never separated by distance, for they are forever linked by their hearts.

Join the HYT CLAN![qfc]90-91-310-65710712[/qfc]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11...?

 

 

 

If Summoning:Slayer was 7:10, it has to be at least 50.

 

Which sounds impossible to me. Even if you boost Qeltar's charms by 25%, only 3 tasks, dust devils, waterfiends, and black demons, break that level.

 

 

 

Let's say you get at least 96 Summoning from 99 Slayer. What is the xp rate of Slayer? Around 25k? Then you should at least get 20k Summoning xp which = at least 50 crimsons.

[Summoning guide (AOW)] [Slayer guide] [Melee & Brawl player]

inuyashakent-2.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11...?

 

 

 

If Summoning:Slayer was 7:10, it has to be at least 50.

 

Which sounds impossible to me. Even if you boost Qeltar's charms by 25%, only 3 tasks, dust devils, waterfiends, and black demons, break that level.

 

 

 

Let's say you get at least 96 Summoning from 99 Slayer. What is the xp rate of Slayer? Around 25k? Then you should at least get 20k Summoning xp which = at least 50 crimsons.

 

This means either the slayer xp rate is wrong, or you can't get 96 summoning from the 99 slayer charms.

 

 

 

If you set the slayer xp rate at 15k/hour (60k melee xp), you'd get ~11k summoning xp/hour or over 34 crimsons worth in charms. Seems more reasonable to me.

2dvjurb.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your '96-99' summoning has to be off. 55 crimsons per hour? Name a slayer task besides Dust Devils, Waterfiends, and Black Demons that gives that much. And DD\BD barely give that; one bad tasks balances out waterfiends, and the rest would have to average out to 55.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which sounds impossible to me. Even if you boost Qeltar's charms by 25%, only 3 tasks, dust devils, waterfiends, and black demons, break that level.

 

Just because it sounds impossible to do does not make it so. You can't use Qeltar's rates per hour, but you could use his drop percentages.

 

 

 

Your '96-99' summoning has to be off. 55 crimsons per hour? Name a slayer task besides Dust Devils, Waterfiends, and Black Demons that gives that much. And DD\BD barely give that; one bad tasks balances out waterfiends, and the rest would have to average out to 55.

 

 

 

You really want to know? Here is every task from Duradel except for Steel Dragons.

 

 

 

(I'll use a gold charm is 86 xp, green is about 130, crimson is 350 and blue can be 700)

 

 

 

[hide=Summoning Rates]Aberrant Spectres (cannon+superhuman strength):

 

Up to 500 kills per hour.

 

60 Gold charms per hour.

 

25 Green charms per hour.

 

15 Crimson charms per hour.

 

30 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 34,660 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 99 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Abyssal Demons (superhuman strength):

 

Up to 140 kills per hour.

 

15 Gold charms per hour.

 

8 Green charms per hour.

 

42 Crimson charms per hour.

 

1 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 17,730 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 51 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Black Demons (superhuman strength, no familiar):

 

Up to 140 kills per hour.

 

32 Gold charms per hour.

 

15 Green charms per hour.

 

64 Crimson charms per hour.

 

1 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 27,802 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 79 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

(Baby) Black Dragons I do not know the rate, but I get around 20 charms from the task. Somewhere around 9 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

(Mutated) Bloodvelds (cannon+superhuman strength):

 

Up to 280 kills per hour .

 

131 Gold charms per hour.

 

16 Green charms per hour.

 

11 Crimson charms per hour.

 

2 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 18,596 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 53 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Dagannoths (cannon+superhuman strength)

 

Up to 730 kills per hour .

 

175 Gold charms per hour.

 

51 Green charms per hour.

 

29 Crimson charms per hour.

 

14 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 41,630 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 119 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Dark Beasts (cannon+superhuman strength+ task done in one trip):

 

Up to 145 kills per hour.

 

11 Gold charms per hour.

 

7 Green charms per hour.

 

10 Crimson charms per hour.

 

18 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 17,956 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 51 crimsons per hour.

 

 

Dust Devils (superhuman strength, no familiar):

 

Up to 250 kills per hour.

 

20 Gold charms per hour.

 

10 Green charms per hour.

 

60 Crimson charms per hour.

 

5 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 27,520 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 78 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Fire Giants (cannon+superhuman strength+melee at waterfall):

 

Up to 300 kills per hour.

 

189 Gold charms per hour.

 

30 Green charms per hour.

 

21 Crimson charms per hour.

 

3 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 29,604 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 84 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Gargoyles (superhuman strength+saradomin sword on crush):

 

Up to 210 kills per hour.

 

25 Gold charms per hour.

 

12 Green charms per hour.

 

12 Crimson charms per hour.

 

14 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 17,710 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 50 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Goraks give none.

 

 

 

Greater Demons (superhuman strength):

 

Up to 220 kills per hour.

 

19 Gold charms per hour.

 

19 Green charms per hour.

 

83 Crimson charms per hour.

 

2 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 34,554 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 98 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Hellhounds (range+cannon in taverly dungeon+hawk eye):

 

Up to 180 kills per hour.

 

124 Gold charms per hour.

 

9 Green charms per hour.

 

10 Crimson charms per hour.

 

1 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 16,034 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 45 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Iron Dragons (superhuman strength, but piety is alot better here):

 

Up to 85 kills per hour.

 

21 Gold charms per hour.

 

38 Green charms per hour.

 

29 Crimson charms per hour.

 

3 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 18,996 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 54 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Kalphites (cannon+superhuman strength):

 

Up to 420 kills per hour.

 

42 Gold charms per hour.

 

29 Green charms per hour.

 

12 Crimson charms per hour.

 

12 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 19,982 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 57 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Mithril Dragons (superhuman strength):

 

Up to 35 kills per hour.

 

12 Gold charms per hour.

 

72 Green charms per hour.

 

23 Crimson charms per hour.

 

5 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 21,942 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 62 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Nechyaels (superhuman strength):

 

Up to 210 kills per hour.

 

18 Gold charms per hour.

 

10 Green charms per hour.

 

69 Crimson charms per hour.

 

2 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 28,398 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 81 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Scabarites (cannon+piety, piety is essential for this area. These rates came from simlpy collecting charms, so it was without a Slayer Helmet.):

 

30 Gold charms per hour.

 

13 Green charms per hour.

 

130 Crimson charms per hour.

 

1 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 50,470 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 144 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Skeletal Wyverns (piety+banking once per task):

 

Up to 90 kills per hour.

 

18 Gold charms per hour.

 

3 Green charms per hour.

 

90 Crimson charms per hour.

 

3 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 35,538 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 101 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Spiritual Mages drop none.

 

 

 

Suqahs (cannon+superhuman strength):

 

Up to 450 kills per hour.

 

13 Gold charms per hour.

 

13 Green charms per hour.

 

13 Crimson charms per hour.

 

13 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 16,458 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 47 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Warped Terrorbirds drop none.

 

 

 

Waterfiends (saradomin sword, no banking, superhuman strength):

 

Up to 165 kills per hour.

 

16 Gold charms per hour.

 

8 Green charms per hour.

 

132 Crimson charms per hour.

 

3 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 50,716 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 144 crimsons per hour.[/hide]

 

 

 

That is every single task Duradel assigns except for Steel Dragons. Only 3 of the tasks do not drop charms. Of the rest, the lowest amount is 45 crimsons per hour, and the highest was 144 (for 2 different tasks). So as for none getting over 50 but three.... only 6 tasks are under 50 and 3 of which are from not dropping charms. So yes, the drop rate of charms from Slayer is well worth it.

 

 

 

If you assume each task has an equal chance to be given, from those rates the average is 65 crimsons per hour. Also note, that something I didn't mention was any time there was a decimal, I rounded down also, even if it was say 29.999. So technically, the rate is even slightly higher for each task. Also Steel dragons drop in piles of 3, so it is more than likely they give a high Summoning rate per hour also.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This means either the slayer xp rate is wrong, or you can't get 96 summoning from the 99 slayer charms.

 

 

 

If you set the slayer xp rate at 15k/hour (60k melee xp), you'd get ~11k summoning xp/hour or over 34 crimsons worth in charms. Seems more reasonable to me.

 

Inuashakent used 25k Slayer per hour, which is easily possible for the 'average high level'. I was using mine at 22.5k also. It has been shown in practice people getting summoning to 99 by only getting charms via Slayer. So neither the Slayer rate was wrong or the end level of Summoning.

 

 

 

I even showed in my previous post that at 11.25k Slayer experience (which is so stupid as no-one will get that low unless you have stats in the 70s) that you get 28 crimsons per hour on average. So compfreak847's rate of 8-11 is completely made up to try and prove his point.

 

 

 

 

 

One last thing, I checked Qeltar's rates. You say you got your numbers from him. Now I added up all the crimsons per hour from each slayer task (except baby black dragons and scabarites which he didn't have). Keep in mind that was only the crimsons, not any of the other charms. I then divided that number by 22 (number of different tasks), and got an average of 18.9. So I believe it is safe to say your rate of 8-11 was indeed completely made up and based on absolutely nothing. Even keep in mind that wasn't even doing a Slayer task, not using a cannon on many, not using prayer either.

 

 

 

 

 

-edit

 

I went through Qeltars rates again, and put them in a spreadsheet. Using the same experience per charm and then converting to simply "crimsons per hour" and got 34.2 crimsons per hour. Now, this isn't on slayer, so you get no bonus from the Slayer Helmet. He never uses stat enhancing prayers either. His rate for Mutated Bloodvelds was without a cannon, which is one of the best tasks to cannon. His hellhounds was from meleeing and no cannon, though in 2 of his tests he did use a Black Mask. Fire giants was based on only melee, without a cannon. Cannon speeds it up alot due to Fire Giants low Defence. With Aberrant Spectres only one of the tests was in the cannon area, and he wore the Slayer helmet and Salve Ammy (e), but he wasn't on a Slayer task either. His main weapon was the Saradomin Godsword, but a Whip and Defender is faster. Also wearing a Slayer Ring.

 

 

 

For Skeletal Wyverns, he uses an elemental shield, the Dragonfire shield is alot better. He also only kills one spawn and has to wait between each one. No piety either, piety is great here. For Greater Demons he took guthans but never used it. This would have slowed down the rate at which you kill. For Nechryaels he killed in the Slayer Tower. The spawns are much further apart and it is single combat. For his Dust Devils test in the Chaos Tunnels, he didn't even use super sets. For Mithril Dragons, no Dragonfire Shield. He wore Verac armour and Infinity boots, which doesn't make sense. For Dagannoths no cannon was used, which significantly increases kill rate. With Dark Beasts no cannon was used. Iron/Steel Dragons used no Dragonfire shield. With the Iron Dragons he got 63 kills per hour, with no stat enhancing prayer or Slayer Helmet. I posted above to be 85, so that isn't very far off.

ydrasil.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which sounds impossible to me. Even if you boost Qeltar's charms by 25%, only 3 tasks, dust devils, waterfiends, and black demons, break that level.

 

Just because it sounds impossible to do does not make it so. You can't use Qeltar's rates per hour, but you could use his drop percentages. Why not? His rates are based on months of dedicated testing of nearly every monster in runescape. So far, all I've seen of yours was a vauge 'zarfot said you get such and such slayer XP so that means you get this much melee summoning and range XP' and 'well my test of 18 dust devils showed that you get X xp per hour'

 

 

 

Your '96-99' summoning has to be off. 55 crimsons per hour? Name a slayer task besides Dust Devils, Waterfiends, and Black Demons that gives that much. And DD\BD barely give that; one bad tasks balances out waterfiends, and the rest would have to average out to 55.

 

 

 

You really want to know? Here is every task from Duradel except for Steel Dragons.

 

 

 

(I'll use a gold charm is 86 xp, green is about 130, crimson is 350 and blue can be 700)

 

 

 

[hide=Summoning Rates]Aberrant Spectres (cannon+superhuman strength):

 

Up to 500 kills per hour.

 

60 Gold charms per hour.

 

25 Green charms per hour.

 

15 Crimson charms per hour.

 

30 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 34,660 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 99 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Abyssal Demons (superhuman strength):

 

Up to 140 kills per hour.

 

15 Gold charms per hour.

 

8 Green charms per hour.

 

42 Crimson charms per hour.

 

1 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 17,730 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 51 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Black Demons (superhuman strength, no familiar):

 

Up to 140 kills per hour.

 

32 Gold charms per hour.

 

15 Green charms per hour.

 

64 Crimson charms per hour.

 

1 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 27,802 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 79 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

(Baby) Black Dragons I do not know the rate, but I get around 20 charms from the task. Somewhere around 9 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

(Mutated) Bloodvelds (cannon+superhuman strength):

 

Up to 280 kills per hour .

 

131 Gold charms per hour.

 

16 Green charms per hour.

 

11 Crimson charms per hour.

 

2 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 18,596 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 53 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Dagannoths (cannon+superhuman strength)

 

Up to 730 kills per hour .

 

175 Gold charms per hour.

 

51 Green charms per hour.

 

29 Crimson charms per hour.

 

14 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 41,630 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 119 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Dark Beasts (cannon+superhuman strength+ task done in one trip):

 

Up to 145 kills per hour.

 

11 Gold charms per hour.

 

7 Green charms per hour.

 

10 Crimson charms per hour.

 

18 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 17,956 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 51 crimsons per hour.

 

 

Dust Devils (superhuman strength, no familiar):

 

Up to 250 kills per hour.

 

20 Gold charms per hour.

 

10 Green charms per hour.

 

60 Crimson charms per hour.

 

5 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 27,520 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 78 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Fire Giants (cannon+superhuman strength+melee at waterfall):

 

Up to 300 kills per hour.

 

189 Gold charms per hour.

 

30 Green charms per hour.

 

21 Crimson charms per hour.

 

3 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 29,604 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 84 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Gargoyles (superhuman strength+saradomin sword on crush):

 

Up to 210 kills per hour.

 

25 Gold charms per hour.

 

12 Green charms per hour.

 

12 Crimson charms per hour.

 

14 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 17,710 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 50 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Goraks give none.

 

 

 

Greater Demons (superhuman strength):

 

Up to 220 kills per hour.

 

19 Gold charms per hour.

 

19 Green charms per hour.

 

83 Crimson charms per hour.

 

2 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 34,554 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 98 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Hellhounds (range+cannon in taverly dungeon+hawk eye):

 

Up to 180 kills per hour.

 

124 Gold charms per hour.

 

9 Green charms per hour.

 

10 Crimson charms per hour.

 

1 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 16,034 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 45 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Iron Dragons (superhuman strength, but piety is alot better here):

 

Up to 85 kills per hour.

 

21 Gold charms per hour.

 

38 Green charms per hour.

 

29 Crimson charms per hour.

 

3 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 18,996 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 54 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Kalphites (cannon+superhuman strength):

 

Up to 420 kills per hour.

 

42 Gold charms per hour.

 

29 Green charms per hour.

 

12 Crimson charms per hour.

 

12 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 19,982 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 57 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Mithril Dragons (superhuman strength):

 

Up to 35 kills per hour.

 

12 Gold charms per hour.

 

72 Green charms per hour.

 

23 Crimson charms per hour.

 

5 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 21,942 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 62 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Nechyaels (superhuman strength):

 

Up to 210 kills per hour.

 

18 Gold charms per hour.

 

10 Green charms per hour.

 

69 Crimson charms per hour.

 

2 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 28,398 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 81 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Scabarites (cannon+piety, piety is essential for this area. These rates came from simlpy collecting charms, so it was without a Slayer Helmet.):

 

30 Gold charms per hour.

 

13 Green charms per hour.

 

130 Crimson charms per hour.

 

1 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 50,470 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 144 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Skeletal Wyverns (piety+banking once per task):

 

Up to 90 kills per hour.

 

18 Gold charms per hour.

 

3 Green charms per hour.

 

90 Crimson charms per hour.

 

3 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 35,538 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 101 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Spiritual Mages drop none.

 

 

 

Suqahs (cannon+superhuman strength):

 

Up to 450 kills per hour.

 

13 Gold charms per hour.

 

13 Green charms per hour.

 

13 Crimson charms per hour.

 

13 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 16,458 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 47 crimsons per hour.

 

 

 

Warped Terrorbirds drop none.

 

 

 

Waterfiends (saradomin sword, no banking, superhuman strength):

 

Up to 165 kills per hour.

 

16 Gold charms per hour.

 

8 Green charms per hour.

 

132 Crimson charms per hour.

 

3 Blue charms per hour.

 

That is 50,716 Summoning experience per hour.

 

Approximately equal to 144 crimsons per hour.[/hide]

 

 

 

That is every single task Duradel assigns except for Steel Dragons. Only 3 of the tasks do not drop charms. Of the rest, the lowest amount is 45 crimsons per hour, and the highest was 144 (for 2 different tasks). So as for none getting over 50 but three.... only 6 tasks are under 50 and 3 of which are from not dropping charms. So yes, the drop rate of charms from Slayer is well worth it.

 

 

 

If you assume each task has an equal chance to be given, from those rates the average is 65 crimsons per hour. Also note, that something I didn't mention was any time there was a decimal, I rounded down also, even if it was say 29.999. So technically, the rate is even slightly higher for each task. Also Steel dragons drop in piles of 3, so it is more than likely they give a high Summoning rate per hour also.

 

 

 

I'm slightly curious where you got those rates, such as 144 crimsons per hour from waterfiends without piety. I get 95 crimsons per hour with better stats, full void mele, super setting every 5 minutes, continuously praying piety, paying 100% attention, and not including banking.

 

 

 

This means either the slayer xp rate is wrong, or you can't get 96 summoning from the 99 slayer charms.

 

 

 

If you set the slayer xp rate at 15k/hour (60k melee xp), you'd get ~11k summoning xp/hour or over 34 crimsons worth in charms. Seems more reasonable to me.

 

Inuashakent used 25k Slayer per hour, which is easily possible for the 'average high level'. I was using mine at 22.5k also. It has been shown in practice people getting summoning to 99 by only getting charms via Slayer. So neither the Slayer rate was wrong or the end level of Summoning.

 

 

 

I even showed in my previous post that at 11.25k Slayer experience (which is so stupid as no-one will get that low unless you have stats in the 70s) that you get 28 crimsons per hour on average. So compfreak847's rate of 8-11 is completely made up to try and prove his point.

 

 

 

 

 

One last thing, I checked Qeltar's rates. You say you got your numbers from him. Now I added up all the crimsons per hour from each slayer task (except baby black dragons and scabarites which he didn't have). Keep in mind that was only the crimsons, not any of the other charms. I then divided that number by 22 (number of different tasks), and got an average of 18.9. So I believe it is safe to say your rate of 8-11 was indeed completely made up and based on absolutely nothing. Even keep in mind that wasn't even doing a Slayer task, not using a cannon on many, not using prayer either. You are correct about the 18.9; I was using Somma's tasks for 11. Duradel's tasks would appear to be closer. We are not counting cannon; I proved it hase virtually no effect on our figures; if anything, slightly negative for slayer. The boost in killing speed is outweighed by the cost of the cannonballs, making the slayer XP received more expensive then what I calculated. Queltar wasn't counting time for banking, setting up invios\pots, getting tasks etc., so it is safe to say that slayer would, at most, increase his numbers by 17%, giving us a total of 22 crimson per hour, plus the equilvilant of 5 from other charms, for 27 crimson an hour and 8.8k XP; almost half of your claimed rate, and much more then I expected, I must admit :shock:

 

Now that that's established, let's go back to the hotly contested XP rates.

 

An intereasting statistic I found when researching the exact rates was that when Qeltar switched from a guthan's helm to a slayer helmet, his XP rate only went up 8.9% - not the 15% you might expect from the helm. This was probably due to the slayer helm raising ATTACK and STRENGTH by 15%, not damage and accuracy. That 8.9% is quite small - if you spend 80 minutes on the average duradel task, you would have to spend less then 7 minutes teleporting, banking, teleporting to Duradel, recieveing the next assignment, setting up equipment and invo, getting to the next assignment, and finally begin killing them for slayer to help your XP! Interestingly enough, Qeltar's task was done in the waterfall dungeon, which takes at least that long to get to, and his figures do not include competition - a potentially large slowdown. I think it's safe to say that you would see, at most, a 10% XP boost from slayer helm + superhuman strength vs. Qeltar's figures - 7.5% from the prayer, and 2.5% from the helm, assuming it took you an average of 5 minutes to switch tasks, and spending 80 out of every 85 minutes actually killing steadily, with no competition! I also found some other discrepancies - when Qetar used a black mask vs. no black mask at Gargoyles, he received only 6.2% more XP with the black mask. Moving right along, I averaged all of Qeltar's rates, for a total of 47.2k XP per hour from Duradel; multiplying that by 10% gave us 51.9k XP per hour; if we multiply it by 15% instead of 10, we get roughly 54.3k XP - not much of a difference, proving that the effect of the black mask, although arguable, does not make a huge impact on the number if my 15% figure is somewhat high or low.

 

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

287 was it?

 

 

 

I agree. I don't like slayer. Many of the tasks are boring and involve monster I'd rather not fight. The only tasks I've enjoyed are: Fire Giants, Green Dragons, and Bloodvelds. The rest are usually annoying. The thing that really ended it for me is as follows. I was using Sumona, and most of the tasks were good for someone of my level- 88 at the time, including Summoning. Then she gave me Iron Dragons. I skipped the first task with my small reserve of points. Then she gave it to me again. I was three points short, so I thought "What the hey" and did it. I killed three dragons in a single trip. True, all I brought was food, but it was so discouraging. I was forced to Burthorpe it and start the slayer cycle again. Then, once finished, I got Irons AGAIN. Burthorpe once more. I quit slaying when I hit the level for Back to My Roots. That's the ONLY reason I'm level 60 slayer. Another thing I hate is that, yes they give you more variety, the numerous monsters. Some are out of the way or annoying to get to. Greaters? Only non wildy spot with a good number is the Karamja dungeon. Brine Rats? Fremminik time! Closest bank: Keldagrim. Although, with the release of summoning, the Cockatrice is somewhat profitable. It drops limpwurts and eggs, both of which sell for like 600 or so.

If the CORPORAL beast is this hard, imagine how hard a GENERAL or COLONEL beast would be. a corporal is not even an admirable rank in armies that use that ranking system.

 

Yeah, it is a pking minigame, so any arguments anybody makes will probably be biased.

The best way this will end :Everybody just says,"I'm not arguing with you anymore, goodbye."

The worst way this will end: I don't really know, psychological warfare? Worldwide thermonuclear war? Pie eating contest?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why not? His rates are based on months of dedicated testing of nearly every monster in runescape. So far, all I've seen of yours was a vauge 'zarfot said you get such and such slayer XP so that means you get this much melee summoning and range XP' and 'well my test of 18 dust devils showed that you get X xp per hour'

 

And Zarfot's rates didn't take months to acquire? Qeltar having tested every monster doesn't matter, there is only 24 different ones that count here. 2 of which he had never tested.

 

 

 

I'm slightly curious where you got those rates, such as 144 crimsons per hour from waterfiends without piety. I get 95 crimsons per hour with better stats, full void mele, super setting every 5 minutes, continuously praying piety, paying 100% attention, and not including banking.

 

I got these rates from Zarfot's guide. He has approximate charm drop rates for every task (except steel dragons). Please also remember that it isn't actually 144 crimsons per hour at waterfiends. It is the equivalent of that though, with gold/green/blue charms converted into the experience give per crimson (about 4.07 gold charms = 1 crimsons, 2.69 green = 1 crimson, 0.5 blue charms = 1 crimson). You shoudln't use full void melee in my opinion either especially if you're on a Slayer task. You lose the bonus of the Slayer Helmet (which is already better than Void). If it isn't on Slayer, it is hard to say which is better between Void and say Karils. Personally I still think Karils is better. While I am there I just about never use the protect from range prayer, only using it near the end of the trip sometimes. With Karils you can wear "barrows" gloves and a Helm of Neitiznot, which gives an extra 15 strength bonus, which is about 4 damage onto the max hit. That is about equal to the Void's 10% to damage. The gloves also give +12 to crush, but whether 10% attack is better or not i'm not sure. However the defence bonuses of Karils is what settles it to me.

 

 

 

 

 

You are correct about the 18.9; I was using Somma's tasks for 11. Duradel's tasks would appear to be closer. We are not counting cannon; I proved it hase virtually no effect on our figures; if anything, slightly negative for slayer. The boost in killing speed is outweighed by the cost of the cannonballs, making the slayer XP received more expensive then what I calculated. Queltar wasn't counting time for banking, setting up invios\pots, getting tasks etc., so it is safe to say that slayer would, at most, increase his numbers by 17%, giving us a total of 22 crimson per hour, plus the equilvilant of 5 from other charms, for 27 crimson an hour and 8.8k XP; almost half of your claimed rate, and much more then I expected, I must admit :shock:

 

We are counting cannon. You proved it has virtually no effect on the rates? When? You have done no such thing. Put simply, cannon gets faster kills, increasing Slayer experience per hour, therefore increasing the amount of charms given, therefore increasing the Summoning experience per hour. I posted earlier the maths that shows the cannon is worth it (from Zarfot's guide), which you also ignored then. You can't say the cost outweighs the benefits either. Zarfot, for the 13.8mil Slayer experience he did while gathering charms gained him profit still and he was using the cannon and piety at every opportunity. He said he used about 80mil overall on the cost of Summoning, and because of what he made from Slayer he broke even. So with Piety and Cannon he made at least 80mil profit.

 

 

 

You also neglected to see that was based on only the crimson charms. You also purposely missed out on my edit where I had calculated the the average "crimson" charms per hour with the other charms calculated in. That number is 34.2 crimsons per hour. I also explained why his numbers were alot lower when compared to during Slayer, which you also seemed to have ignored. Banking, which includes setting up invo/pots, getting tasks, in almost every case takes under 3 minutes to do. That time isn't really significant in the long run.

 

 

 

 

 

Now that that's established, let's go back to the hotly contested XP rates.

 

An intereasting statistic I found when researching the exact rates was that when Qeltar switched from a guthan's helm to a slayer helmet, his XP rate only went up 8.9% - not the 15% you might expect from the helm. This was probably due to the slayer helm raising ATTACK and STRENGTH by 15%, not damage and accuracy. That 8.9% is quite small - if you spend 80 minutes on the average duradel task, you would have to spend less then 7 minutes teleporting, banking, teleporting to Duradel, recieveing the next assignment, setting up equipment and invo, getting to the next assignment, and finally begin killing them for slayer to help your XP!

 

I had not expected the Slayer Helmet to give a 15% increase, because as you said, it is to Attack and Strength levels. That doesn't correlate into 15% accuracy and 15% damage. Also, you don't spend 80 minutes on the average duradel task. There is very few tasks that take over an hour. Those are Abyssal Demons, Black Demons, Dark Beasts, Iron/Steel Dragons, Waterfiends. But then again, it comes down to task number. From the moment you finish the task, get to a bank, get a new task, get new inven, get to new monster, takes a very short amount of time:

 

 

 

Slayertimingtasks.png

 

 

 

It averages out to pretty much exactly 3 minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

Interestingly enough, Qeltar's task was done in the waterfall dungeon, which takes at least that long to get to, and his figures do not include competition - a potentially large slowdown. I think it's safe to say that you would see, at most, a 10% XP boost from slayer helm + superhuman strength vs. Qeltar's figures - 7.5% from the prayer, and 2.5% from the helm, assuming it took you an average of 5 minutes to switch tasks, and spending 80 out of every 85 minutes actually killing steadily, with no competition!

 

It takes 2.8 minutes to get to waterfall actually ::' , as shown above. It is also more than 10% experience boost when you do Slayer efficiently. I mentioned that in my edit, which you neglected to see (it wasn't even in your quote). You also can't really say you had quoted it before I added the edit in as there was an hour and 47 minute gap between the posts, and straight after posting it I went back to Qeltars numbers and then edited my post. So it is actually 3 minutes to bank on average, more tasks take under an hour than what do (also most of Zarfot's numbers were also without competeition).

 

 

 

 

 

I also found some other discrepancies - when Qetar used a black mask vs. no black mask at Gargoyles, he received only 6.2% more XP with the black mask. Moving right along, I averaged all of Qeltar's rates, for a total of 47.2k XP per hour from Duradel; multiplying that by 10% gave us 51.9k XP per hour; if we multiply it by 15% instead of 10, we get roughly 54.3k XP - not much of a difference, proving that the effect of the black mask, although arguable, does not make a huge impact on the number if my 15% figure is somewhat high or low.

 

 

With the Gargoyle's you'll notice Qeltar also used a Whip. A Saradomin Sword is the best weapon to use, followed by any Godsword, and then the Whip. This is because they are weak to crush. Also note Qeltar killed them in the Slayer tower, and they are more spread out. They are also further from a bank. When using the Chaos Tunnels it is far more efficient to use food than Guthans (you are within a very short distance from the bank after all). Though you can complete a task without needing more food anyway. The Slayer Tower is also single combat, so no familiar. He always uses a trimmed achievement cape. A Fire cape has only 2 less prayer bonus, but had +4 strength, +1 to attack and +2 extra to defence bonuses. So even if the difference is so little, his experience rates are already extremeley low.

 

 

 

You also keep mentioning that Qeltar has dedicated hours of work for this whole database. Keep in mind, his rates come off of only one hour at that monster. You yourself keep saying that it needs to be tested over hundreds of monsters (which Zarfot has done ::' ).

 

 

 

When he trained Slayer to get the charms for 99 Summoning he gained approximately 13.8mil Slayer experience (as said earlier). He said he averaged 26-27k Slayer xp per hour (he got this rate by timing himself 30 hours online). He also said he about broke even with the costs meaning he made 80mil profit from Slayer whilst using piety and a cannon at every opportunity. That means he took about 520.75 hours to get that much Slayer experience and hence average about 153,623hp/h of profit. He also said that over all that time (including the 14 hours he spent making pouches from charms), he gained 85mil total experience. That means on average he was getting 163,225 experience per hour. So not only does that beat Zombie Monkies overall experience per hour by about 20k, he also gained money. So umm.... Zombie Monkies were more efficient how?

ydrasil.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why not? His rates are based on months of dedicated testing of nearly every monster in runescape. So far, all I've seen of yours was a vauge 'zarfot said you get such and such slayer XP so that means you get this much melee summoning and range XP' and 'well my test of 18 dust devils showed that you get X xp per hour'

 

And Zarfot's rates didn't take months to acquire? Qeltar having tested every monster doesn't matter, there is only 24 different ones that count here. 2 of which he had never tested. To be adressed later; I'm starting to believe Inushkant about Zarfot's exaggeration. I guess I didn't read his guide carefully enough the first time :-#, his numbers seem far above anything else I've ever seen. I know, though, Qeltar is accurate; his Avansie numbers, when they came out, were almost exactly what I got with very similar stats; whereas I've never been able to get anywhere close to Zarfots numbers. I used to chalk it up to his amazing concentration and efficiency, but now I'm not so sure

 

 

 

I'm slightly curious where you got those rates, such as 144 crimsons per hour from waterfiends without piety. I get 95 crimsons per hour with better stats, full void mele, super setting every 5 minutes, continuously praying piety, paying 100% attention, and not including banking.

 

I got these rates from Zarfot's guide. He has approximate charm drop rates for every task (except steel dragons). Please also remember that it isn't actually 144 crimsons per hour at waterfiends. It is the equivalent of that though, with gold/green/blue charms converted into the experience give per crimson (about 4.07 gold charms = 1 crimsons, 2.69 green = 1 crimson, 0.5 blue charms = 1 crimson). You shoudln't use full void melee in my opinion either especially if you're on a Slayer task. You lose the bonus of the Slayer Helmet (which is already better than Void). If it isn't on Slayer, it is hard to say which is better between Void and say Karils. Personally I still think Karils is better. While I am there I just about never use the protect from range prayer, only using it near the end of the trip sometimes. With Karils you can wear "barrows" gloves and a Helm of Neitiznot, which gives an extra 15 strength bonus, which is about 4 damage onto the max hit. That is about equal to the Void's 10% to damage. The gloves also give +12 to crush, but whether 10% attack is better or not i'm not sure. However the defence bonuses of Karils is what settles it to me. I wasn't on slayer, and I have conclusivly proven void better with my own personal tests, in terms of kills, cost, and danger.

 

 

 

 

 

You are correct about the 18.9; I was using Somma's tasks for 11. Duradel's tasks would appear to be closer. We are not counting cannon; I proved it hase virtually no effect on our figures; if anything, slightly negative for slayer. The boost in killing speed is outweighed by the cost of the cannonballs, making the slayer XP received more expensive then what I calculated. Queltar wasn't counting time for banking, setting up invios\pots, getting tasks etc., so it is safe to say that slayer would, at most, increase his numbers by 17%, giving us a total of 22 crimson per hour, plus the equilvilant of 5 from other charms, for 27 crimson an hour and 8.8k XP; almost half of your claimed rate, and much more then I expected, I must admit :shock:

 

We are counting cannon. You proved it has virtually no effect on the rates? When? You have done no such thing. Put simply, cannon gets faster kills, increasing Slayer experience per hour, therefore increasing the amount of charms given, therefore increasing the Summoning experience per hour. I posted earlier the maths that shows the cannon is worth it (from Zarfot's guide), which you also ignored then. You can't say the cost outweighs the benefits either. Zarfot, for the 13.8mil Slayer experience he did while gathering charms gained him profit still and he was using the cannon and piety at every opportunity. He said he used about 80mil overall on the cost of Summoning, and because of what he made from Slayer he broke even. So with Piety and Cannon he made at least 80mil profit.

 

 

 

You also neglected to see that was based on only the crimson charms. You also purposely missed out on my edit where I had calculated the the average "crimson" charms per hour with the other charms calculated in. That number is 34.2 crimsons per hour. I also explained why his numbers were alot lower when compared to during Slayer, which you also seemed to have ignored. Banking, which includes setting up invo/pots, getting tasks, in almost every case takes under 3 minutes to do. That time isn't really significant in the long run. No, it's not - I happen to have a spreadsheet too, and I came up with just over 27 crimsons total. You apparently didn't realize that all my numbers are without a cannon; basically, 1 cannonball hits an average of 12.5, for 12.5 slayer XP at a cost of 200 GP per, or 192 million total for 99 slayer; far above our projected '99.6' M cost with your figures, and roughly in line with mine. I see cannons as wildly inefficient, and a waste of money and time.

 

 

 

 

 

Now that that's established, let's go back to the hotly contested XP rates.

 

An intereasting statistic I found when researching the exact rates was that when Qeltar switched from a guthan's helm to a slayer helmet, his XP rate only went up 8.9% - not the 15% you might expect from the helm. This was probably due to the slayer helm raising ATTACK and STRENGTH by 15%, not damage and accuracy. That 8.9% is quite small - if you spend 80 minutes on the average duradel task, you would have to spend less then 7 minutes teleporting, banking, teleporting to Duradel, recieveing the next assignment, setting up equipment and invo, getting to the next assignment, and finally begin killing them for slayer to help your XP!

 

I had not expected the Slayer Helmet to give a 15% increase, because as you said, it is to Attack and Strength levels. That doesn't correlate into 15% accuracy and 15% damage. Also, you don't spend 80 minutes on the average duradel task. There is very few tasks that take over an hour. Those are Abyssal Demons, Black Demons, Dark Beasts, Iron/Steel Dragons, Waterfiends. But then again, it comes down to task number. From the moment you finish the task, get to a bank, get a new task, get new inven, get to new monster, takes a very short amount of time:

 

 

 

Slayertimingtasks.png

 

 

 

It averages out to pretty much exactly 3 minutes.

 

 

 

 

 

Interestingly enough, Qeltar's task was done in the waterfall dungeon, which takes at least that long to get to, and his figures do not include competition - a potentially large slowdown. I think it's safe to say that you would see, at most, a 10% XP boost from slayer helm + superhuman strength vs. Qeltar's figures - 7.5% from the prayer, and 2.5% from the helm, assuming it took you an average of 5 minutes to switch tasks, and spending 80 out of every 85 minutes actually killing steadily, with no competition!

 

It takes 2.8 minutes to get to waterfall actually ::' , as shown above. It is also more than 10% experience boost when you do Slayer efficiently. I mentioned that in my edit, which you neglected to see (it wasn't even in your quote). You also can't really say you had quoted it before I added the edit in as there was an hour and 47 minute gap between the posts, and straight after posting it I went back to Qeltars numbers and then edited my post. So it is actually 3 minutes to bank on average, more tasks take under an hour than what do (also most of Zarfot's numbers were also without competeition). You don't seem to realize that I was using time to get to monster vs. actual slaying time, so the shorter the tasks the less efficient they are. I'm counting time to get a new task (42 seconds), bank, set up invo\outfit for that task, and actually run to it - five minutes is generous for most tasks, I know I tend to get stalled at the bank talking to friends and whatnot.

 

 

 

 

 

I also found some other discrepancies - when Qetar used a black mask vs. no black mask at Gargoyles, he received only 6.2% more XP with the black mask. Moving right along, I averaged all of Qeltar's rates, for a total of 47.2k XP per hour from Duradel; multiplying that by 10% gave us 51.9k XP per hour; if we multiply it by 15% instead of 10, we get roughly 54.3k XP - not much of a difference, proving that the effect of the black mask, although arguable, does not make a huge impact on the number if my 15% figure is somewhat high or low.

 

 

With the Gargoyle's you'll notice Qeltar also used a Whip. A Saradomin Sword is the best weapon to use, followed by any Godsword, and then the Whip. This is because they are weak to crush. Also note Qeltar killed them in the Slayer tower, and they are more spread out. They are also further from a bank. When using the Chaos Tunnels it is far more efficient to use food than Guthans (you are within a very short distance from the bank after all). Though you can complete a task without needing more food anyway. The Slayer Tower is also single combat, so no familiar. He always uses a trimmed achievement cape. A Fire cape has only 2 less prayer bonus, but had +4 strength, +1 to attack and +2 extra to defence bonuses. So even if the difference is so little, his experience rates are already extremeley low. Granted, I'm not certain on the gargoyles - I've never tested them, so I can't argue that point. Qeltar didn't count banking time, so that doesn't matter; the spread outishness of one task should have virtually no effect on the XP. Most of his guthans tasks were ones that very rarely hit; A summon would have helped, but Guthans would probably be faster then banking. Familiars have not been counted the entire time; you yourself said so, so that is a moot point. The +4 strength of a fire cape shouldn't even have a measurable difference; my rates at Zombies are with HP cape, so a fire cape would do the same thing to those numbers anyway.

 

 

 

You also keep mentioning that Qeltar has dedicated hours of work for this whole database. Keep in mind, his rates come off of only one hour at that monster. You yourself keep saying that it needs to be tested over hundreds of monsters (which Zarfot has done ::' ). Some of his rates come off of one hour; the majority come off of more then one. And virtually all of them are over 100 kills - to be sure, not the largest sample, but enough for reasonable accurate results. I'm not sure what you mean over the hundreds of monsters... Qeltar has done that, not Zarfot. Perhaps you meant over hundreds of hours, which is true - however, the more I look at Zarfot's numbers, the more it looks that way. His are consistently far above Qeltar's and my own, and in fact, almost anyone else's I've ever seen.

 

 

 

When he trained Slayer to get the charms for 99 Summoning he gained approximately 13.8mil Slayer experience (as said earlier). He said he averaged 26-27k Slayer xp per hour (he got this rate by timing himself 30 hours online). He also said he about broke even with the costs meaning he made 80mil profit from Slayer whilst using piety and a cannon at every opportunity. That means he took about 520.75 hours to get that much Slayer experience and hence average about 153,623hp/h of profit. He also said that over all that time (including the 14 hours he spent making pouches from charms), he gained 85mil total experience. That means on average he was getting 163,225 experience per hour. So not only does that beat Zombie Monkies overall experience per hour by about 20k, he also gained money. So umm.... Zombie Monkies were more efficient how?

That sounds downright impossible. 160k profit and XP per hour, with piety and cannon? :roll:

 

Odd how someone else, with highly respected testing skill and methodology, barely managed to get about one third the XP of that, plus a lower profit.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be adressed later; I'm starting to believe Inushkant about Zarfot's exaggeration. I guess I didn't read his guide carefully enough the first time :-#, his numbers seem far above anything else I've ever seen. I know, though, Qeltar is accurate; his Avansie numbers, when they came out, were almost exactly what I got with very similar stats; whereas I've never been able to get anywhere close to Zarfots numbers. I used to chalk it up to his amazing concentration and efficiency, but now I'm not so sure

 

Zarfots exaggeration? Those were indeed the numbers he got, while I personally do not get them, I do get close. Maybe if you read his guide properly, tried to follow what he suggests, you also will get faster rates. If they're far above anything anyone else gets, doesn't that suggest that his methods are better than what others use? So why not try using.

 

 

 

I wasn't on slayer, and I have conclusivly proven void better with my own personal tests, in terms of kills, cost, and danger.

 

Void has:

 

+91 Crush Attack Bonus

 

+111 Mage Defence Bonus

 

+113 Range Defence Bonus

 

+152 Strength Bonus

 

+15 Prayer bonus

 

 

 

Karils has:

 

+103 Crush Attack Bonus

 

+135 Mage Defence Bonus

 

+158 Range Defence Bonus

 

+167 Strength Bonus

 

+18 Prayer bonus

 

 

 

Can't really say which is better in terms of kills. As for cost, prayer drains slower with Karils, Karils has higher defences (so less food used), so I don't see how Void can be cheaper. Danger? Void has lower defences, you have a higher chance of dieing with that compared to Karils. Either way it is irrelevant as it isn't on Slayer. On Slayer Karils is definately better due to the Slayer Helmet.

 

 

 

You don't seem to realize that I was using time to get to monster vs. actual slaying time, so the shorter the tasks the less efficient they are. I'm counting time to get a new task (42 seconds), bank, set up invo\outfit for that task, and actually run to it - five minutes is generous for most tasks, I know I tend to get stalled at the bank talking to friends and whatnot.

 

Five minutes is indeed generous seeing as the average is three. But now you are going to base your calculations on you purposely going slower? Well that is helpful.

 

 

 

Granted, I'm not certain on the gargoyles - I've never tested them, so I can't argue that point. Qeltar didn't count banking time, so that doesn't matter; the spread outishness of one task should have virtually no effect on the XP. Most of his guthans tasks were ones that very rarely hit; A summon would have helped, but Guthans would probably be faster then banking. Familiars have not been counted the entire time; you yourself said so, so that is a moot point. The +4 strength of a fire cape shouldn't even have a measurable difference; my rates at Zombies are with HP cape, so a fire cape would do the same thing to those numbers anyway.

 

The "spread outishness" of tasks does have an effect on the expereince rates. Simply because you have to run further between monsters, it takes longer on average than if you don't have to move, would you not agree? That is the case with killing Gargoyles in the Chaos Tunnels. Guthans is slower than using food. With food the time lost to eating is small, and you are consistantly training with a better weapon. With Guthans you have to switch to a slower and weaker weapon that isn't even guaranteed to heal. You also during that time lose out on the +2 prayer bonus of the Saradomin Sword (or +8 of the Godsword). The reason I haven't put in familiars for alot of them was to show how fast they are even without them. The fact that they can be used for many tasks that Qeltar doesn't use for speeds up experience rates on average. The +4 strength bonus will allow you to hit one higher. That is more effective than a +2 prayer bonus which Qeltar doesn't even use. Keep in mind the Fire Cape also has +1 to attack bonuses and an extra +2 to defence bonus (minimal, but still better).

 

 

 

Some of his rates come off of one hour; the majority come off of more then one. And virtually all of them are over 100 kills - to be sure, not the largest sample, but enough for reasonable accurate results. I'm not sure what you mean over the hundreds of monsters... Qeltar has done that, not Zarfot. Perhaps you meant over hundreds of hours, which is true - however, the more I look at Zarfot's numbers, the more it looks that way. His are consistently far above Qeltar's and my own, and in fact, almost anyone else's I've ever seen.

 

No, the majority (by majority I mean every single one), comes off of 1 hour tests. He tests how many he kills for one hour with certain gear and that is it. That isn't accurate in the long run. The reason I said hundreads of monster is because that is what you said (quote from page9):

 

You killed 18 dust devils in X amount of time and you call that a test? That's MEANINGLESS. Until you give real results, by which i mean HUNDREDS of kills, not 18, you can't make ANY sweeping assumptions.

 

So no, I didn't mean over hundreds of hours, I did indeed mean hundreds of kills. A small one hour test will not give completely accurate results. Again you mention Zarfots numbers are higher than Qeltars and yours. Qeltar wasn't doing Slayer for a start. It is also quite easily possible that Zarfot uses better methods is it not?

 

 

 

That sounds downright impossible. 160k profit and XP per hour, with piety and cannon? :roll:

 

Odd how someone else, with highly respected testing skill and methodology, barely managed to get about one third the XP of that, plus a lower profit.

 

But it isn't. Every single time you see something which shows you are wrong "I believe that is downright impossible, therefore it must be". Yes those are indeed the exact rates Zarfot got. Isn't it amazing when there is accurate results, which shows yours are incredibly low, that is all of a sudden wrong? That money came from overall all the drops he picked up over the course of 520 hours, that is a much more accurate and better test than your made up numbers which have been based on nothing. That amount of experience comes from overall. That is Slayer, Attack, Strength, Defence, Hitpoints, Range and Summoning.

 

 

 

I would also say that Qeltar's "highly respected testing skill and methodology" is infact not so much correct. Doing only a one hour test only does not provide anything close to an average. His methods of killed are slower, he wasn't on Slayer, he wasn't using stat enhancing prayers, uses worse equipment and you wonder why his rates are low? And finally, during the 13.8mil Slayer experience that Zarfot got, he gained "no fewer than 20 whips, 20 dark bows and 60 dragon boots when getting the slayer xp I needed for 99 summoning." At current prices that is at least 70mil from just those three different items.

ydrasil.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lies? No.

 

Exaggerations? Probably not.

 

Impossibly hard to obtain rates? Yes.

 

 

 

His rates are insanely high, and only a robot can obtain them. Seriously, almost NOBODY can do what he does, it's a bit creepy if you ask me.

 

It can't just be that. His rates are well over double qeltars, even adjusted for slayer, and that's not counting banking. His runecrafting guide numbers were a bit more in line, at least I got within half a dozen seconds of his. But 160k XP per hour with slayer is insane.

 

 

 

 

Zarfots exaggeration? Those were indeed the numbers he got, while I personally do not get them, I do get close. Maybe if you read his guide properly, tried to follow what he suggests, you also will get faster rates. If they're far above anything anyone else gets, doesn't that suggest that his methods are better than what others use? So why not try using.

 

Or, possibly, when no other high level player I've ever seen is able to get ANYWHERE close to them, he's lying, exaggerating, or some sort of runescape hacker :?

 

 

 

Void has:

 

+91 Crush Attack Bonus

 

+111 Mage Defence Bonus

 

+113 Range Defence Bonus

 

+152 Strength Bonus

 

+15 Prayer bonus

 

 

 

Karils has:

 

+103 Crush Attack Bonus

 

+135 Mage Defence Bonus

 

+158 Range Defence Bonus

 

+167 Strength Bonus

 

+18 Prayer bonus

 

 

 

Can't really say which is better in terms of kills. As for cost, prayer drains slower with Karils, Karils has higher defences (so less food used), so I don't see how Void can be cheaper. Danger? Void has lower defences, you have a higher chance of dieing with that compared to Karils. Either way it is irrelevant as it isn't on Slayer. On Slayer Karils is definately better due to the Slayer Helmet.

 

Karils is better with slayer helmet, Void is better without. Not sure what you mean about the 'prayer drains slower with karils', because karils top and bottom, barrows gloves, and slayer helm all have no prayer bonus. I very rarely have to pray with void, and with piety get about 5% more kills, or 5 kills worth, more per hour. Don't even try to argue with me about Fiends; I have done a considerable amount of testing there, and I know my numbers are correct. So any fiddle-faddle about 144 crimsons per hour with +10% strength pray will be ignored.

 

 

 

 

The "spread outishness" of tasks does have an effect on the expereince rates. Simply because you have to run further between monsters, it takes longer on average than if you don't have to move, would you not agree? That is the case with killing Gargoyles in the Chaos Tunnels. Guthans is slower than using food. With food the time lost to eating is small, and you are consistantly training with a better weapon. With Guthans you have to switch to a slower and weaker weapon that isn't even guaranteed to heal. You also during that time lose out on the +2 prayer bonus of the Saradomin Sword (or +8 of the Godsword). The reason I haven't put in familiars for alot of them was to show how fast they are even without them. The fact that they can be used for many tasks that Qeltar doesn't use for speeds up experience rates on average. The +4 strength bonus will allow you to hit one higher. That is more effective than a +2 prayer bonus which Qeltar doesn't even use. Keep in mind the Fire Cape also has +1 to attack bonuses and an extra +2 to defence bonus (minimal, but still better).

 

 

Like I said, it's for one task, and they aren't much more spread out in the slayer tower - if you attack the next one as the one you hit starts its death animation, you waste very little time. if your banking with eating, it's much slower. The +2 prayer bonus has very little effect on XP rate. All of our numbers so far have been without summons; you stated that this was because you took BOBs instead anyway. You can't just switch to summons now; even Zarfot's numbers don't have them. The +4 strength bonus is irrelevant, I didn't use it at zombies so my rates would jump just as much.

 

 

 

 

No, the majority (by majority I mean every single one), comes off of 1 hour tests. He tests how many he kills for one hour with certain gear and that is it. That isn't accurate in the long run. The reason I said hundreads of monster is because that is what you said (quote from page9):

 

Very true, I did say that. You will also notice that he had over 100 kills for virtually all of his monsters, and generally quite a few more. Not spot on accurate, but it's not going to give any massivly skewed results.

 

 

 

 

But it isn't. Every single time you see something which shows you are wrong "I believe that is downright impossible, therefore it must be". Yes those are indeed the exact rates Zarfot got. Isn't it amazing when there is accurate results, which shows yours are incredibly low, that is all of a sudden wrong? That money came from overall all the drops he picked up over the course of 520 hours, that is a much more accurate and better test than your made up numbers which have been based on nothing. That amount of experience comes from overall. That is Slayer, Attack, Strength, Defence, Hitpoints, Range and Summoning.

 

 

 

I would also say that Qeltar's "highly respected testing skill and methodology" is infact not so much correct. Doing only a one hour test only does not provide anything close to an average. His methods of killed are slower, he wasn't on Slayer, he wasn't using stat enhancing prayers, uses worse equipment and you wonder why his rates are low? And finally, during the 13.8mil Slayer experience that Zarfot got, he gained "no fewer than 20 whips, 20 dark bows and 60 dragon boots when getting the slayer xp I needed for 99 summoning." At current prices that is at least 70mil from just those three different items.

 

I could say the exact same thing about Qeltar's testing; he happens to be 92 slayer, which although isn't as high as Zarfot's, at least let you know he has an idea of the XP of tasks. I find it unusual that no other person has ever gotten anything close to Zarfot's numbers. My numbers come from Qeltar's, not being made up. We've made adjustments for all of those 'effects' - His methods of kills are just as fast for virtually ever task, +10% strength would boost XP at most by 5% (factored in), and his equipment was the same as mine at zombies. Just because someone isn't using a fire cape doesn't make his equipment complete garbage. Not that it matters; I didn't use a fire cape either at zombies, which we are using for comparison. As for the last part, how about the subtraction for thousands of cannon balls, 5,000 prayer pots (40 million for them alone), pots, armor etc.? There is no way he is making 160k an hour WHILE using cannon AND piety; that would be the equivalent of nearly 400k an hour without piety and a cannon.

DeviledEgg24.png

Drops: 1x Draconic Visage, 56x Abyssal Whip, 5x Demon Head, D Drops: 37, Barrows Drops: 43, DK Drops: 29

GWD drops: 14,000x Bars, 1x Armadyl Hilt, 2x Armadyl Skirt, 4x Sara Sword, 1x Saradomin Hilt, 8x Bandos Hilt, 8x Bandos Platebody, 9x Bandos Tassets, 4x Bandos Boots, 43x Godsword Shard, 82x Dragon Boots

Dry streak records: Saradomin 412 kills Bandos 988 kills Spirit Mages 633 kills - Slayer Sucks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.