Slayer Sucks

[Obtaurian]

2 of those tasks should be blacklisted (dragons, terrorbirds), using a combat familiar will knock your profit down around 90-100k per task for spectres for a 3k XP boost, making a combat familiar drastically worsen the efficiency of the task. Bloodvelds, dagannoths and kalphites are all 3 cannonable, making the benefit of a combat familiar roughly 1/3rd of a normal task; kalphites are limited by spawn speed, so a combat familiar will have no effect whatsoever on attack speed. Gargoyles are in a tiny, cramped space and are a low hp\high defence monster, with a familiar giving at most ~4k XP boost on a task. Fire giants are spread out, and a combat familiar won't help much there either with the low HP and fast kills. Spiritual mages are insanely fast kills at 75 HP each, a combat familiar has been proven to make a virtually unnoticeable difference at the cost of far more clicks and concentration (which tend to lower rates due to difficulties in picking up drops via jumping). Black demons will also have a cost of 4-5 prayer pots (40k) tacked on, with a small XP boost due to the cramped spaces and extra hopping required. All of those average out to a boost of approx. 2.2-2.4k XP\h if the extra costs associated are not included. A far cry from you magical "15k XP boost" from the summons you've never tried :roll:

 

 

 

As for prayer and food, I wasn't aware that GP costs were 'preference". If you have a method of micromanagement to erase the cost of both, I would like to hear it.

 

 

 

There you go making up numbers, which you chastised me for doing. According to Zarfot (a far more experienced Slayer than both of us) Terrorbirds are one of the best tasks for Slayer experience. Black Dragons are a 25 minute task at the most, so I fail to see how removing any of the tasks that I have blocked in place of Black Dragons would benefit me in any way.

 

 

 

A cannon does not lessen the impact of a combat familiar. The familiar is ALWAYS in combat in cannonable areas, as ydrasil explained. In the CT there is a small room next to the large fire giant room that has a large number of giants. As I've mentioned multiple times, their HP and defense does NOT matter, as you should never be attacking the same monster as your familiar! If you're never touching your familiar's monster, how in the world are you going to kill it before your familiar does?

 

 

 

The ONLY task that you're right about is Kalphites. They do have a set respawn rate, so using a combat familiar isn't all that necessary, but I just prefer the extra magic or range experience and I don't ever have problems with food due to my Enhanced Excalibur.

 

 

 

Spirit Mages work exactly like Fire Giants. Seriously Compfreak, I like you a lot, but I really hope you don't tell people to attack the same monster that their familiar is attacking when they ask for Slayer advice.

 

 

 

And besides ALL of that, you're making the argument that you want to save as much money as possible. This is Slayer. You spend money to obtain maximum speed in a skill that is slower to level than ALL other skills. Why should I worry over a few herbs and prayer potions when I'm slaying as fast as I possibly can with my levels? I'm especially surprised that YOU of all players are worried about money. Slayer isn't even close to as costly to train at maximum speed as some other skills, and I have absolutely no problems funding it with my skills, which are LOWER than yours!

[ydrasil]

By "details" on your numbers, I mean:

 

 

 

What are you using for timing on banking\getting a new task? Is this standardized, or are you varying it for every task?

 

What are you doing about rare drops? Are they being ignored in the profit calculations, then added back in using the much more reliable drop rates of other slayers?

 

For timing I am using a stopwatch, there is no other choice that is as accurate. As I did mentioned when you originally asked this, I didn't time inbetween tasks. This is because inbetween tasks I was inputting the data which I had just collected. Of course it is standardized for every task.

 

 

 

As for rare drops, I also mentioned this when I posted this the first time round when you asked. At the moment they are left as they are as they are generally not to far off what is commonly perceived as the drop rate. They might be slightly higher (or in some cases lower) but overall reasonably close.

 

 

 

So for these major details I supposedly missed, I find it odd that I have answered these questions so many times before.

 

 

 

Those are my two main points at the moment, I'll raise more minor ones once those are answered.

 

Any other questions now?

 

 

 

I have giving my opinion on combat familiars. In a small, cramped space like Gargoyles and Black demons, they tend to dance too much to do any significant good. The cannon part isn't an opinion - if I can do a dagganoth task in 20 minutes, the XP from a familiar is a lot smaller then, say, a 45 minute task. So you can't just lump together familiar XP from various tasks. Prayer itself implies it is a pain, pots make inventory management more difficult and occasionally require two banking trips. It also means fighting in the more crowded east side of the tunnels, sometimes requiring several world hops to get an empty world. Nechs hit a considerable amount, like other of the monsters I mentioned - it would be much more difficult to do them without a healing familiar.

 

 

 

Basically, I believe that the huge benefit of healers\BOBs simply outweighs the extra XP in many situations.

 

At Gargoyles yes the space is cramped, but that doesn't make a combat familiar not worth using. At Black Demons especially I have no idea how you can say it is cramped. There is more than enough space for a combat familiar to attack, not to mention if done a certain way you can limit/exclude it from 'dancing' with the Demon. This situation is even more noticeable now with the Demons in Taverly now dropping charms. Much more room, multicombat, what reason to not use it now? You still claim they do no significant good, yet my results say otherwise, or do you just plan on ignoring those?

 

 

 

Yes, the cannon part is nothing but opinionated and contains nothing factual. You keep forgetting that a familiar only can attack one NPC at a time. Hence, if it is always attacking at least one NPC, it is being used to its full effect. Specifically due to the cannon, you are being attacked by alot of Dagannoths simultaneously, this only casuses the familiar to be continuously attacking. Your statement just after this only emphasises your subjectivity. "if I can do a dagganoth task in 20 minutes, the XP from a familiar is a lot smaller then, say, a 45 minute task." You seem to be purposely twisting the way you convey this idea to try and show that a familiar is not worth it. Of course what you say is true, but that is irrelevant. it is quite obvious that in a shorter amount of time the familiar will not do as much damage, but that is irrelevant, and you know it (if you didn't actually know this, then everything you have said on this matter is essentially invalid). What I am referring to is quite simple. On the same NPC, whether in 20 minute time span of a 20 hour time span, it will still attack and do damage at the same ratio. I have no way to explain it any clearer, other than to furthur reinforce it with an example:

 

 

 

In 20 minutes a Geyser Titan gets you 4,000 experience.

 

In 45 minutes a Geyser Titan gets you 9,000 experience.

 

 

 

Of course you got less experience in a shorter amount of time, but you still experience at the same rate, and that is all that is important.

 

 

 

How does using prayer imply it is a pain? As you have mentioned you use a Unicorn, which also implies I can do it the same way if I wished. Yet I choose not to. As for the pots, that isn't an issue. There is only one task that ever have to take two trips to complete, and that is Skeletal Wyverns, and that also depends on task number. Again, i'll also mention that taverly dungeon can be used as an alternative as those graphical types of Demons drop charms now, so that point is irrelevant.

 

 

 

Nechryaels are easy to do without a Unicorn. I have never once used one there and have always completed the task in one trip. While it may make it harder, it does not instantly make it hard. As in it does not jump from an easy task to a hard task, what about the inbetween parts?

 

 

 

Again i'll mention that if you can do a task surviving on only food and a SGS (Excalibur works also), or using prayer, then why would you give up the extra benefit of a combat familiar? There are actually very few tasks that require a healing familiar or a BOB. Skeletal Wyverns is one, Mithril dragons is another (but can be done without anyway due to small task number), Scabarites (and again, due to the speed of the task can also be done without, a combat familiar is much better here). That is all I can think of that really needs a Unicorn. There are others, but those are single combat, just as the Mithril Dragons and Skeletal Wyverns. So really there is only one task where you really have to choose and that is for Scabarites.

[compfreak847]

My point is that faster kills mean a quicker death, and it takes time for a familiar to latch on to a monster - especially when they are spread out. With spread out specters, a melee familiar has to walk a distance each time it switches monsters, and the deaths will be fast from the cannon. My point about faster tasks makes perfect sense, as more time will be spent on non-summon tasks and less on summon tasks. The Taverly dungeon is single combat; pray tell how are you are going to use a combat summon there? Cramped doesn't ruin a combat familiar, but it makes for a significantly larger time dancing - on a 3-4 hit monster like gargoyles, it's a big problem.

 

 

 

Major drop rates cannot be assumed from 2-3 tasks. You saw this earlier with some of your profit lists - do you REALLY believe your going to get a whip or two most tasks, and make almost 1m per hour at demons? Results like that are skewing your numbers; they should be as compartmentalized as possible.

 

 

 

Since you added in the timings afterward, what are your times for banking\receiving each tasks?

[Obtaurian]

My point is that faster kills mean a quicker death, and it takes time for a familiar to latch on to a monster - especially when they are spread out.

 

 

 

Not if you hit the call button. It's instant, and are you STILL implying that you're going to kill a monster before your familiar attacks it? I've explained this what, ten times now? Knock it off.

 

 

 

With spread out specters, a melee familiar has to walk a distance each time it switches monsters, and the deaths will be fast from the cannon.

 

 

 

Then don't use a melee familiar, and the familiar will still be in constant combat.

 

 

 

My point about faster tasks makes perfect sense, as more time will be spent on non-summon tasks and less on summon tasks.

 

 

 

Are you agreeing with us here?

 

 

 

Cramped doesn't ruin a combat familiar, but it makes for a significantly larger time dancing - on a 3-4 hit monster like gargoyles, it's a big problem.

 

 

 

Not if the monster is moving, which it should be if you're running away from it. EDIT: And it doesn't matter that it's a 3-4 hit monster.

 

[compfreak847]

Call isn't instant when monsters are spread out. Your having a difficult time with this. Your summon can't instantly teleport to the perfect spot to fight a monster.

 

 

 

Melee familiars offer XP that is 3x as valuable as range or mage. It won't be in anything close to constant combat on a spread out, fast dying monster. I'm arguing against Zarfot on the non summon tasks - your spending less time on a task where you have a combat familiar. The monster isn't going to move much when you run over to pick up drops - the movement square is too small on gargoyles. And obvious it matters on a 3-4 hit monster, your going to have at least 2-3 hits on it before your summon begins to fight :roll:

[ydrasil]

2 of those tasks should be blacklisted (dragons, terrorbirds), using a combat familiar will knock your profit down around 90-100k per task for spectres for a 3k XP boost, making a combat familiar drastically worsen the efficiency of the task. Bloodvelds, dagannoths and kalphites are all 3 cannonable, making the benefit of a combat familiar roughly 1/3rd of a normal task; kalphites are limited by spawn speed, so a combat familiar will have no effect whatsoever on attack speed. Gargoyles are in a tiny, cramped space and are a low hp\high defence monster, with a familiar giving at most ~4k XP boost on a task. Fire giants are spread out, and a combat familiar won't help much there either with the low HP and fast kills. Spiritual mages are insanely fast kills at 75 HP each, a combat familiar has been proven to make a virtually unnoticeable difference at the cost of far more clicks and concentration (which tend to lower rates due to difficulties in picking up drops via jumping). Black demons will also have a cost of 4-5 prayer pots (40k) tacked on, with a small XP boost due to the cramped spaces and extra hopping required. All of those average out to a boost of approx. 2.2-2.4k XP\h if the extra costs associated are not included. A far cry from you magical "15k XP boost" from the summons you've never tried :roll:

 

 

 

As for prayer and food, I wasn't aware that GP costs were 'preference". If you have a method of micromanagement to erase the cost of both, I would like to hear it.

 

Morningrise333 made a great response but there is a few things I would like to add. Just as you accused him of making up numbers, how are doing anything different here? Have you actually every tested a comabt familiar? 3k boosts.... clearly you haven't.

 

 

 

About Kalphites, I mentioned a similar example about Black Demons on the previous page. Yes spawn speed is a limiting factor, but faster kills will make the overall experience gained per hour greater than without a familiar. Also where was a combat familiar ever proven to have an unnoticeable affect for Spiritual Mages? You are being so incredibly subjective trying to force your opinions as facts. Your responses quite clearly indicate you have not tested them if you believe that is the rates. The Geyser Titan was getting me about 8k Range experience per hour in addition to what I was getting from meleeing. That is still a noticeable affect, and that is where a combat familiar has the least effect if anything.

 

 

 

Black Demons, where did the extra 40k cost of prayer potions come from? Doing a task faster = less prayer used = less prayer pots used = money saved, not expended. I was getting about 12k increase in those supposedly cramped spaces, and again I'll mention that taverly dungeon is not cramped at all.

 

 

 

My point is that faster kills mean a quicker death, and it takes time for a familiar to latch on to a monster - especially when they are spread out. With spread out specters, a melee familiar has to walk a distance each time it switches monsters, and the deaths will be fast from the cannon. My point about faster tasks makes perfect sense, as more time will be spent on non-summon tasks and less on summon tasks. The Taverly dungeon is single combat; pray tell how are you are going to use a combat summon there? Cramped doesn't ruin a combat familiar, but it makes for a significantly larger time dancing - on a 3-4 hit monster like gargoyles, it's a big problem.

 

 

 

Major drop rates cannot be assumed from 2-3 tasks. You saw this earlier with some of your profit lists - do you REALLY believe your going to get a whip or two most tasks, and make almost 1m per hour at demons? Results like that are skewing your numbers; they should be as compartmentalized as possible.

 

 

 

Since you added in the timings afterward, what are your times for banking\receiving each tasks?

 

Your argument here is flawed so much. Faster kills means a quicker death.... you are calling that a bad thing? It is an increase in experience that you can not get without the use of a combat familiar. It seems I was confused about Taverly :lol: , my mistake. I haven't logged in for a while and I had been thinking about ti on the basis that a cannon can be used there, but that was with Range so it acts like a multicombat zone. Ignore everything I said about Taverly dungeon then.

 

 

 

Even still, your point is still flawed. I am referring to - "My point about faster tasks makes perfect sense, as more time will be spent on non-summon tasks and less on summon tasks." That is true in part and flase in the other. Less time will be spent on tasks with a familair, that is correct. That does not make a task where you cannot use a familiar longer than it otherwise would have been though.

 

 

 

There was 9 tasks used for Abyssal Demons not 2 or 3, and as I mentioned the drop rate isn't that far off what is commonly perceived as the drop rate. Please show me where I ahve ever said or inferred that I would always get a Whip every task or 2 every task. Note that if I had, the profit rate would be higher than what it is, making it so there is no-way I could believe that to be the case if it hasn't happened like that yet... You seem to be also under the assumption that the profit at Abyssal Demons comes only from the Whips. I was averaging around 200k per hour on tasks which I did not get a Whip on.

 

 

 

"Since you added in the timings afterward, what are your times for banking\receiving each tasks?" What do mean by saying I added in the timings afterwards? I never excluded them. Now I have to add this :wall: . How many times I have already mentioned (hell I even said so in my post when I resonded to your questions) that I have not timed the part inbetween tasks? You can't be serious in asking that over and over when I have consistently responded to the question that I have not done it as I cannot whilst inputting the data from the task.

 

 

 

Call isn't instant when monsters are spread out. Your having a difficult time with this. Your summon can't instantly teleport to the perfect spot to fight a monster.

 

 

 

Melee familiars offer XP that is 3x as valuable as range or mage. It won't be in anything close to constant combat on a spread out, fast dying monster. I'm arguing against Zarfot on the non summon tasks - your spending less time on a task where you have a combat familiar. The monster isn't going to move much when you run over to pick up drops - the movement square is too small on gargoyles. And obvious it matters on a 3-4 hit monster, your going to have at least 2-3 hits on it before your summon begins to fight :roll:

 

You summon will essentially always teleport to the same spot when you press call. Now when a person with intelligence notices this, they can purposely make it so it teleports in a more desireable position by altering where you character is. That was such a difficult concept wasn't it?

 

 

 

Please explain how melee experience is 3x more valuable? I could have sworn around page 20 or something that we noticed you didn't understand what is meant by the value of experience (when we were talking about Range). If you use an efficiency calculation, melee is more efficient to get than Magic, so easy Magic experience is the better option.

 

 

 

As Morningrise333 said, are you agreeing with us? This part - "your spending less time on a task where you have a combat familiar." Seriously, that is whole point! :wall: :wall: How do think this applies to anything bbut faster epxerience? Oh I know! Faster kills must mean that you are getting slower experience, why have I never seen this till now. Seriously though, you can't actually be trying to use that to prove your point can you?

 

 

 

P.S Excessive use of the 'frustrated' smiley due your illogical responses.

[compfreak847]

You stated that you had added in the banking\task obtaining\running times; I was interested in what numbers you had used. As mentioned in Zarfot's guide, kalphites are limited by spawn speed - you can kill them very quickly upon spawning with a correctly set up cannon, and a familiar will be of much less use. You continue to be mistaken about the speed of a combat familiar - as mentioned earlier, the effect is at most 5-7%. Therefore, a task that is normally completed 3 times as fast thanks to a cannon will obtain less XP from a familiar when compared to a non-familiar task that takes 3 times as long. Basically, 1 task with familiar (20 minutes, 6k XP\h from familiar) + 1 task without (60 minutes, 0k XP\h from familiar) cannot simply be lumped together for 3k XP\h average - it's the flaw in faster tasks.

 

 

 

We have already discussed charms from bursting. Melee XP is much harder to obtain then either range or mage; read back into some of my posts for details.

[Obtaurian]

You stated that you had added in the banking\task obtaining\running times; I was interested in what numbers you had used. As mentioned in Zarfot's guide, kalphites are limited by spawn speed - you can kill them very quickly upon spawning with a correctly set up cannon, and a familiar will be of much less use. You continue to be mistaken about the speed of a combat familiar - as mentioned earlier, the effect is at most 5-7%. Therefore, a task that is normally completed 3 times as fast thanks to a cannon will obtain less XP from a familiar when compared to a non-familiar task that takes 3 times as long. Basically, 1 task with familiar (20 minutes, 6k XP\h from familiar) + 1 task without (60 minutes, 0k XP\h from familiar) cannot simply be lumped together for 3k XP\h average - it's the flaw in faster tasks.

 

 

 

We have already discussed charms from bursting. Melee XP is much harder to obtain then either range or mage; read back into some of my posts for details.

 

 

 

Again with the made up numbers, especially from someone who has never or rarely touched a combat familiar.

 

 

 

Call isn't instant when monsters are spread out. Your having a difficult time with this. Your summon can't instantly teleport to the perfect spot to fight a monster.

 

 

 

Yes it can, as Ydrasil and I have both explained.

 

 

 

Melee familiars offer XP that is 3x as valuable as range or mage.

 

 

 

Still up for debate. You haven't shown me any numbers that prove an extremely expensive method of collecting charms is easier than a profitable, fast method of gaining melee experience.

 

 

 

It won't be in anything close to constant combat on a spread out, fast dying monster. I'm arguing against Zarfot on the non summon tasks - your spending less time on a task where you have a combat familiar.

 

 

 

It is, because you will always have two monsters attacking you, thus the familiar is always attacking one of them.

 

 

 

The monster isn't going to move much when you run over to pick up drops - the movement square is too small on gargoyles.

 

 

 

You hit the monster, click the next monster, click call, and the familiar will teleport next to the monster that is trying to catch up to you. It has nothing to do with picking up drops. Again, you show your inexperience with combat familiars.

 

 

 

And obvious it matters on a 3-4 hit monster, your going to have at least 2-3 hits on it before your summon begins to fight :roll:

 

 

 

I'm speechless. You have ignored my argument time and time again. You use the rolling eyes smiley like you've just made some sort of obvious point, when all you're doing is proving that you are completely and totally inexperienced with combat familiars. I will refer you to my past ten posts or so where I clearly explain why you are completely and utterly wrong here.

 

 

 

 

Compfreak, you may be a master of pvp, but you are clearly lacking in the pvm field. You have argued using slow, inefficient methods, little to no experience, and you're making up very exact percentages and numbers like you just read them from the Slayer Bible.

 

 

 

You are not a good Slayer, Compfreak. For all your combat prowess, you are clearly outmatched by low level monsters.

[compfreak847]

No, it can't. Your summon does NOT go directly to a monster, particularly when that monster is 10 or more squares away.

 

 

 

The numbers were already provided, your welcome to look then over a second time

 

 

 

Your still not comprehending this. The tunnel is too narrow for any large combat familiar to instantly spawn in the perfect spot - most of the time it has to dance around the monster until it reaches a wide enough spot to engage it in combat. Given that only 3-4 whip hits are required to kill it, the fight is half over before it's anywhere close.

 

 

 

You are completely failing to see how a combat familiar works. Let me spell it out for you: You get 1 whip hit in, and the monster flinches before attacking back, just before your whip hits the 2nd time. This is the point at which you can summon a monster, as fast as you can after the first hit. This is ALWAYS how it is in non-aggressive monsters. You are simply proving your inexperience with fighting familiars.

 

 

 

Again, I have spent dozens of hours testing familiars, not a 'few pouches'. Slayer level does not reflect experience with high level combat familiars - summoning levels do. You don't even have the summoning level for these monsters! Your experience: 0. Mine: 30+ hours. I really don't see how your trying to make an experience comparison when you have none whatsoever.

[Obtaurian]

No, it can't. Your summon does NOT go directly to a monster, particularly when that monster is 10 or more squares away.

 

 

 

The numbers were already provided, your welcome to look then over a second time

 

 

 

Your still not comprehending this. The tunnel is too narrow for any large combat familiar to instantly spawn in the perfect spot - most of the time it has to dance around the monster until it reaches a wide enough spot to engage it in combat. Given that only 3-4 whip hits are required to kill it, the fight is half over before it's anywhere close.

 

 

 

You are completely failing to see how a combat familiar works. Let me spell it out for you: You get 1 whip hit in, and the monster flinches before attacking back, just before your whip hits the 2nd time. This is the point at which you can summon a monster, as fast as you can after the first hit. This is ALWAYS how it is in non-aggressive monsters. You are simply proving your inexperience with fighting familiars.

 

 

 

Again, I have spent dozens of hours testing familiars, not a 'few pouches'. Slayer level does not reflect experience with high level combat familiars - summoning levels do. You don't even have the summoning level for these monsters! Your experience: 0. Mine: 30+ hours. I really don't see how your trying to make an experience comparison when you have none whatsoever.

 

 

 

Well, I guess that's it. You fail to acknowledge my argument yet again. I almost wonder if you're just trolling, though I think that's quite unlike you.

 

 

 

Maybe I'll try this one last time:

 

 

 

Given that only 3-4 whip hits are required to kill it, the fight is half over before it's anywhere close.

 

 

 

If you never attack the monster your familiar is attacking other than the first initial hit to aggro it, how is it possible to kill it with a whip? Please explain that to me. If you can, I will kiss your feet.

 

 

 

EDIT: I'm so eager to hear your response.

[compfreak847]

Gladly. We are still talking about Gargoyles. There are only two spaced close together in the Chaos Tunnels, the only known multi area. There are two groups of two, each in the group close together, but the two groups separate by too large of a distance to have a familiar fight in the other group. Because of the fairly slow spawning speed relative to kill speed, the other gargoyle is generally only alive for a hit or two after the other one spawns, and between the clicks required to crack the gargoyle, pick up drops, and the cramped chaos tunnel environment, it is almost impossible to set your familiar on the other monster without losing at least one hit. Indeed, after the 10 minute aggression period, it becomes impossible - one would have to waste a whip hit on the second gargoyle, and would frequently have to wait for spawns.

 

 

 

Clear enough? I'm glad your eager for my response.

 

 

 

Troll: An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

 

 

I'm doing neither, so no trolling worries :?

[HOSTiLE_KAi]

I'll just wondering if you've included the banking/ traveling times to your armoured zombie rates? also was it 110k per hr? Did you try using a combat summon along with the zombies?

 

 

 

Anyway the use of combat summon, geyser at the cost of 3k GE, around 6k self made and provide even 3k exp in ranged in enough of a reason to use one in multi-way. It can tank - avoiding damage is better than healers. The only only situations which healers should be used in multi-way...are boss monsters tbh.

[compfreak847]

Summons don't do a very good job of tanking. The fact that they attack after you, and generally are after separate monsters, makes the boost minimal compare to a healer. Banking\travel times for armored zombies are under 30 seconds per 20 hour trip due to the extremely close teleport; it is single way, so a combat familiar cannot be used there.

[Obtaurian]

Gladly. We are still talking about Gargoyles.

 

 

 

You never once specified, but I'll respond to your example of Gargoyles, then we can talk about the other 12 or so monsters.

 

 

 

There are only two spaced close together in the Chaos Tunnels, the only known multi area. There are two groups of two, each in the group close together, but the two groups separate by too large of a distance to have a familiar fight in the other group.

 

 

 

Not true, especially next to the rope.

 

 

 

Because of the fairly slow spawning speed relative to kill speed,

 

 

 

They spawn quickly enough if you use a world with 1,500+ players.

 

 

 

the other gargoyle is generally only alive for a hit or two after the other one spawns, and between the clicks required to crack the gargoyle, pick up drops, and the cramped chaos tunnel environment, it is almost impossible to set your familiar on the other monster without losing at least one hit.

 

 

 

You make it sound like a little extra clicking is some huge detriment. You never lose time if you're paying attention.

 

 

 

Indeed, after the 10 minute aggression period, it becomes impossible - one would have to waste a whip hit on the second gargoyle, and would frequently have to wait for spawns.

 

 

 

I've already stated that you hit a monster once to aggro it, then finish off your monster and continue to slaughter others while your familiar finishes off the first. For Gargoyles, they spawn quickly enough so that you're able to keep yourself and your familiar in combat constantly, especially if you utilize the entire room. It's even easier with other monsters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, what other monsters are you having trouble with?

[compfreak847]

 

 

 

You never once specified, but I'll respond to your example of Gargoyles, then we can talk about the other 12 or so monsters.

 

I specified at least 5 times, I was adressing the issue of gargoyles the entire time.

 

 

 

 

Not true, especially next to the rope.

 

It simply is. Your familiar is too far out of your range to continue fighting the far gargoyle,and will teleport back to you.

 

 

 

 

You make it sound like a little extra clicking is some huge detriment. You never lose time if you're paying attention.

 

I'm not saying it's a detriment; I'm saying it's physically impossible. You can't run over to another monster, whip it, call your familiar, crack the other gargoyle, pick up the drops, and return to the previous gargoyle without losing a stroke or two.

 

 

 

 

I've already stated that you hit a monster once to aggro it, then finish off your monster and continue to slaughter others while your familiar finishes off the first. For Gargoyles, they spawn quickly enough so that you're able to keep yourself and your familiar in combat constantly, especially if you utilize the entire room. It's even easier with other monsters.

 

 

I'm not talking about "other monsters", I'm talking about gargoyles. It is utterly impossible to utilize monsters from the seperate group; the far monster will cause the familiar to teleport back. Have you ever actually tried this? =D>

[Obtaurian]

 

 

 

You never once specified, but I'll respond to your example of Gargoyles, then we can talk about the other 12 or so monsters.

 

I specified at least 5 times, I was adressing the issue of gargoyles the entire time.

 

 

 

No, you have not.

 

 

 

 

Not true, especially next to the rope.

 

It simply is. Your familiar is too far out of your range to continue fighting the far gargoyle,and will teleport back to you.

 

 

 

You need to run pretty far away from your familiar before it teleports back to you. The Gargoyle room is far too small for that to happen if you're staying near the rope.

 

 

 

 

You make it sound like a little extra clicking is some huge detriment. You never lose time if you're paying attention.

 

I'm not saying it's a detriment; I'm saying it's physically impossible. You can't run over to another monster, whip it, call your familiar, crack the other gargoyle, pick up the drops, and return to the previous gargoyle without losing a stroke or two.

 

 

 

Are you implying that you try to do all of that between whip hits? No wonder you're having problems. :roll:

 

 

 

 

I've already stated that you hit a monster once to aggro it, then finish off your monster and continue to slaughter others while your familiar finishes off the first. For Gargoyles, they spawn quickly enough so that you're able to keep yourself and your familiar in combat constantly, especially if you utilize the entire room. It's even easier with other monsters.

 

 

I'm not talking about "other monsters", I'm talking about gargoyles. It is utterly impossible to utilize monsters from the seperate group; the far monster will cause the familiar to teleport back. Have you ever actually tried this? =D>

 

 

 

Wrong, it is far from impossible. Have YOU ever actually tried this? LOL CLAPING 3MOTE

 

 

 

Once again you prove your inexperience. This is getting a tad ridiculous, Comp.

[iLootChests]

two eight seven

 

 

 

i read the whole thing and i sort of agree ur right about chinning is faster but not alot of people have the money to waste 450k an hour

 

 

 

and not many people like spiders

 

 

 

most of the people tht train slayer dont like it tho they get it up to kill a certain monster or because they want like 50+ or 70+ in all skills

 

 

 

but im also one of those people who dont like slayer

 

 

 

but i thank u for accually taking the time to right a complete agrument =D>

[compfreak847]

 

No, you have not.

 

 

Yes, I have. Take a look back at my posts.

 

 

 

 

You need to run pretty far away from your familiar before it teleports back to you. The Gargoyle room is far too small for that to happen if you're staying near the rope.

 

No, it's not. The cliff in the center is large enough that the far corners are outside of the familiars range.

 

 

 

 

Are you implying that you try to do all of that between whip hits? No wonder you're having problems. :roll:

 

Nope, implying that that would have to be done if you really didn't wanna miss much of the familiar's attacks. In reality, your never gonna get all of it done, and the familiar won't get nearly as much XP as the full 12k\h of uninterrupted combat. Thanks for recognizing my point.

 

 

 

 

Wrong, it is far from impossible. Have YOU ever actually tried this? LOL CLAPING 3MOTE

 

 

 

Once again you prove your inexperience. This is getting a tad ridiculous, Comp.

 

Yep, I've told you half a dozen times now. Your still not answering how your trying out any of the monsters we mentioned at your summoning level. I'm going to assume you've NEVER tried either a geyser titan, wolpertinger, or fire titan. If you have, feel free to correct me, but from now on I'm going to be basing this off of you not having a clue what your talking about, having never actually tried it yourself.

[Obtaurian]

 

No, you have not.

 

 

Yes, I have. Take a look back at my posts.

 

 

 

I've done so, and I can't find where you specify that we're talking specifically about gargoyles, when I was trying to argue the point for ALL multicombat Slayer monsters.

 

 

 

 

You need to run pretty far away from your familiar before it teleports back to you. The Gargoyle room is far too small for that to happen if you're staying near the rope.

 

No, it's not. The cliff in the center is large enough that the far corners are outside of the familiars range.

 

 

 

Why would you spend any time in the far corners? You're suppose to hug the middle rock. Luring the gargoyles helps as well, but it's not always necessary.

 

 

 

Are you implying that you try to do all of that between whip hits? No wonder you're having problems. :roll:

 

Nope, implying that that would have to be done if you really didn't wanna miss much of the familiar's attacks. In reality, your never gonna get all of it done, and the familiar won't get nearly as much XP as the full 12k\h of uninterrupted combat. Thanks for recognizing my point.

 

 

 

It would have to be done? You have much to learn, young padawan. You perform each individual action between whip hits, not all of them at once between whip hits. You don't even need to pick up drops every time. In reality, if you pay attention and you make sure to keep your attack consistent, it's quite easy to multitask. I can even do all of that while using humidify on fishbowls for extra magic experience and not miss hits!

 

 

 

 

Wrong, it is far from impossible. Have YOU ever actually tried this? LOL CLAPING 3MOTE

 

 

 

Once again you prove your inexperience. This is getting a tad ridiculous, Comp.

 

Yep, I've told you half a dozen times now. Your still not answering how your trying out any of the monsters we mentioned at your summoning level. I'm going to assume you've NEVER tried either a geyser titan, wolpertinger, or fire titan. If you have, feel free to correct me, but from now on I'm going to be basing this off of you not having a clue what your talking about, having never actually tried it yourself.

 

 

 

You utilize the same exact methods from level 1 Summoning to level 93. Once you can use an Iron Titan at 95, you then should start using scrolls as well. You don't magically learn to call familiars at level 79 Summoning, which is all you're really doing. You can learn to do it at level 1 with a Spirit Wolf (though I wouldn't recommend using one.) Your Summoning level does not reflect your combat prowess with a familiar, it reflects your ability to collect charms and make them into pouches.

[bedman]

Allthough I tend to agree with morningrise that compfreak underestimates the effect of combat familiars, I do agree that using a combat familiar at gargoyles is a stupid thing:

 

 

 

There are only 2 gargoyles within an okay reach. How on earth do you let your familiar have one on your own without slowing yourself down?

[langer]

At gargoyles, if you have a SGS for specs, a healing familiar is pretty much overkill and a beast of burden is a good alternative as the drops tend to add up (mith and steel bars). The t-bird for example will give you added space and minimal faster kills, which is much better than a bunyip. Lower levels will probably need the hp regen more than added space though.

[compfreak847]

 

You utilize the same exact methods from level 1 Summoning to level 93. Once you can use an Iron Titan at 95, you then should start using scrolls as well. You don't magically learn to call familiars at level 79 Summoning, which is all you're really doing. You can learn to do it at level 1 with a Spirit Wolf (though I wouldn't recommend using one.) Your Summoning level does not reflect your combat prowess with a familiar, it reflects your ability to collect charms and make them into pouches.

 

But your not understanding kill speed. Your making a wild guess based on the speed of kills, and it doesn't work that way as power increases. If your familiar only gets a hit in every now and then, it cannnot do much. To put this into perspective, all that's needed to offset the 6k\h speed boost of a combat familiar at gargoyles is roughly 60 whip hits - meaning that if you lose 1 whip hit on every third monster to get your combat summon engaged across the room (and indeed, your losing a lot more then that) it's not worth it. That's a TINY margin, and the main problem with summons in areas like that.

[Obtaurian]

 

You utilize the same exact methods from level 1 Summoning to level 93. Once you can use an Iron Titan at 95, you then should start using scrolls as well. You don't magically learn to call familiars at level 79 Summoning, which is all you're really doing. You can learn to do it at level 1 with a Spirit Wolf (though I wouldn't recommend using one.) Your Summoning level does not reflect your combat prowess with a familiar, it reflects your ability to collect charms and make them into pouches.

 

But your not understanding kill speed. Your making a wild guess based on the speed of kills, and it doesn't work that way as power increases. If your familiar only gets a hit in every now and then, it cannnot do much. To put this into perspective, all that's needed to offset the 6k\h speed boost of a combat familiar at gargoyles is roughly 60 whip hits - meaning that if you lose 1 whip hit on every third monster to get your combat summon engaged across the room (and indeed, your losing a lot more then that) it's not worth it. That's a TINY margin, and the main problem with summons in areas like that.

 

 

 

I understand kill speed just fine, which is why I make damn sure that I never miss a whip hit. When you call the familiar, you click the monster, hit call the moment the monster attacks you, then click on another monster. It's really not hard at all.

[compfreak847]

Actually, it is. The garogyle is 12 steps away from the east side of the cave - you can't run 12 steps, call your summon, and run 12 steps back without missing without missing a single whip hit - more likely, you'll miss 2-3 per kill!

[Obtaurian]

Actually, it is. The garogyle is 12 steps away from the east side of the cave - you can't run 12 steps, call your summon, and run 12 steps back without missing without missing a single whip hit - more likely, you'll miss 2-3 per kill!

 

 

 

Are you talking about the two lower Gargoyles? Cause those are RIGHT next to each other, and you always go for the Gargoyle that's closest. It's really not that hard. Certainly not as attention intensive as fletching or using humidify while you slay.