megakiller32 Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I was thinking, could a facist (or communist) free-speaking democracy work, and if so how? For example, in Nazi Germany, Hitler would kill people who disagreed with him, because he was the absolute ruler of Germany. Same with the Stalinist Communism (which in the end wasn't communism at all.) But, could there be a way where a country has a Facist leader, with complete power over everyone, but people still have freedom of speech and aren't persecuted for thier opposite opinions? Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nom Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Wow there are a ton of contradictions in that one short post. Facsism and democracy are like polar opposites man. Democracy doesn't mean free speech, it means government by the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megakiller32 Posted November 2, 2008 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 Wow there are a ton of contradictions in that one short post. Facsism and democracy are like polar opposites man. Democracy doesn't mean free speech, it means government by the people. Ahh, sorry my political understanding isn't in depth. I plan to read my older brother's A- Level Politics book once i'm done with my other big pile of books :oops: Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_dude160 Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 You can't have a Fascist Democracy. Fascism is based on controlling everything about the people. And if the people are running the government, you don't have control over all the actions of the people, therefore it is not fascist. The definition of Fascism basically screams "(Bad word :twss:) YOU DEMOCRACY" and then proceeds to give it a vulgar hand gesture... So no, a fascist democracy wouldn't work. signature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnixon16 Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I was thinking, could a facist (or communist) free-speaking democracy work, and if so how? For example, in Nazi Germany, Hitler would kill people who disagreed with him, because he was the absolute ruler of Germany. Same with the Stalinist Communism (which in the end wasn't communism at all.) But, could there be a way where a country has a Facist leader, with complete power over everyone, but people still have freedom of speech and aren't persecuted for thier opposite opinions? you could have a communist state with free spech. you can obviouslt have a facist demoncasy but the truth is that complete communism (full left) and facism (full right) don't work. Facism ends up with destroyed markets without degulation e.g starbuck and the coffee market. And communism always falls as people are rewarded for there actions normally. If you work hard and your partner doesn't you get the same pay. Which is why neither two exists in a pure state. My IQ is 146 - Free-IQTest.net - IQ Test Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryomancer Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I plan to read my older brother's A- Level Politics book once i'm done with my other big pile of books :oops: You won't get past the first page, politics books are incredibly dull, almost as much as law books. On topic, a Facist Democracy is an oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroLegionnaire Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 The guy who wrote Starship Troopers might have been toying around with the idea of a facist (Or at the very least militaristic) state with free speech. Apparently, all citizens get the basic rights like free speech, basic healthcare and all that, but they could only get things like the right to vote or a entitlement to a pension only if they served in the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Fascism demands a police state, which runs counter to a democracy. On the other hand, communism can exist with democracy, as communism is an economic model rather than a governmental model. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryomancer Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 On paper, Communism sounds great and better than Capitalism, unfortunately in the real world it's never worked out that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger_Warrior Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 On paper, Communism sounds great and better than Capitalism, unfortunately in the real world it's never worked out that way. That's a nice quote that's been made thousands of times before. I fail to see what it has to do with democracy though. | Favourite Game Music | Last.fm | HYT Friend Chat Rules | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy500fan Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 On paper, Communism sounds great and better than Capitalism, unfortunately in the real world it's never worked out that way. That's a nice quote that's been made thousands of times before. I fail to see what it has to do with democracy though. Yep, everyone likes to repeat that quote for some reason. It always annoyed the [bleep] out of me whenever I tried to debate someone about economics, mostly because I believe it is completely untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_am_Geed Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 in all honesty is that possible? those 2 are about the exact opposites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragoonson Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I plan to read my older brother's A- Level Politics book once i'm done with my other big pile of books :oops: You won't get past the first page, politics books are incredibly dull, almost as much as law books. I actually found some interesting :shock: Actually,it could be plausible... Fascism is a totalitarian nationalist ideology that is primarily concerned with perceived problems associated with cultural, economic, political, and social decline or decadence. It seeks to solve such problems by achieving a millenarian national rebirth by exalting the nation or race as well as promoting cults of unity, strength and purity. So theoretically if there are no such problems it could be fine?Meh. I do think Communism would work if there was no higher power,just a bunch of people auditing each other...So basically Anarchy? so i herd u liek devarts?If you look at me and feel offended by my 666-ism,think.I could be just as offended by your "cross".[hide=This's why I'm hot]The Eleventh Commandment:Thou Shalst only say "Amen,brother".Amen, brother :lol:Amen, brudda (referring to the 10th commandment)amen Bruder! (german ftw)I'm invulnerable to everything, except Lenin and Dragoonson.That's impossible. I love people.[/hide] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Yes, that was a problem in the Soviet Union. The government had the best, the rest stood in line for cold potatoes. I don't know enough about politics to go into a debate, though. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oegly41 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Fascism and democracy could work. There could be a police/military state with an elite on the top that actually takes input from the people. Communism is democracy. PS: Communism rulez!!!@@@!!! PPS: Stalin r nub. Filesharer.org - Upload your mugshot to support The Pirate Bay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Inc Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Wow there are a ton of contradictions in that one short post. Fascism and democracy are like polar opposites man. Democracy doesn't mean free speech, it means government by the people. Yea, I was going to say, Fascism is far right, and socialism\communism are far left. So... I'm not sure. I have all the 99s, and have been playing since 2001. Comped 4/30/15 My Araxxi Kills: 459::Araxxi Drops(KC):Araxxi Hilts: 4x Eye (14/126/149/459), Web - (100) Fang (193) Araxxi Legs Completed: 5 ---Top (69/206/234/292/361), Middle (163/176/278/343/395), Bottom (135/256/350/359/397)Boss Pets: Supreme - 848 KCIf you play Xbox One - Add me! GT: Urtehnoes - Currently on a Destiny binge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldJoe Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Fascism and democracy could work. There could be a police/military state with an elite on the top that actually takes input from the people. Communism is democracy. PS: Communism rulez!!!@@@!!! PPS: Stalin r nub. Based on what you see as Communism (Soviet), it was a total facist state - you could be Stalins righthand-man and still be executed. Seeing what Coummunism has done so far, i can't agree that it is democracy. And no, you couldn't have a facist democracy. Fascism always centres around a few lucky with all the power. Say you would have freedom of speech, and suddenly one of the lucky few starts thinking "no, i don't like to hear that" - and he (yes i said he) would remove that freedom. What's your option now as a people? Revolution? Perhaps, but you have the chief-staff still in control of the army. Thus, you either have Fascism or Democracy. P.S - I'm getting annoyed with all the USSR flags! God damn it, i should take the Nazi Germany flag as an avatar. People seem to have forgotten how many got executed during the Soviet era and how opressed the people were. J'adore aussi le sexe et les snuff moviesJe trouve que ce sont des purs moments de vieJe ne me reconnais plus dans les gensJe suis juste un cas désespérantEt comme personne ne viendra me réclamerJe terminerai comme un objet retrouvé Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_man_army Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 There is quite a difference between Stalinism and traditional communism. He who learns must suffer, and, even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart,and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megakiller32 Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 There is quite a difference between Stalinism and traditional communism. That's what I put in the first post. And is it me or is Lenin overhyped? Otherwise not many people know much about Red Terror :| Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_man_army Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 There is quite a difference between Stalinism and traditional communism. That's what I put in the first post. And is it me or is Lenin overhyped? Otherwise not many people know much about Red Terror :| I know you put it in the OP but the post above mine (which I was referring to) didn't seem to make a distinction. In response to your point about Lenin, yes he is somewhat over-hyped, for some people he is close to being god like (ih the irony). Regardless of your political allegiances though, it was a remarkable to bring down such an old-time entrenched system like the Tsarist regime of the Romanov's. He did make a few failures, he was forced into the Brest-Litovsk Pact in order to end Russian involvement in WW1, he didn't deal with food shortages too well (he wasn't helped by having to fight the White Armies) and he was completely blindsided by Stalin's political maneuvering. The fact that he remains as the symbol of communism however, is more to do with the cult of personality that Stalin helped to create and exploit during his reign as he knew many of the people adored Lenin. He who learns must suffer, and, even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart,and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megakiller32 Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 There is quite a difference between Stalinism and traditional communism. That's what I put in the first post. And is it me or is Lenin overhyped? Otherwise not many people know much about Red Terror :| I know you put it in the OP but the post above mine (which I was referring to) didn't seem to make a distinction. In response to your point about Lenin, yes he is somewhat over-hyped, for some people he is close to being god like (ih the irony). Regardless of your political allegiances though, it was a remarkable to bring down such an old-time entrenched system like the Tsarist regime of the Romanov's. He did make a few failures, he was forced into the Brest-Litovsk Pact in order to end Russian involvement in WW1, he didn't deal with food shortages too well (he wasn't helped by having to fight the White Armies) and he was completely blindsided by Stalin's political maneuvering. The fact that he remains as the symbol of communism however, is more to do with the cult of personality that Stalin helped to create and exploit during his reign as he knew many of the people adored Lenin. Lenin wasn't forced into the Brest-Litovsk pact, he sent Trotsky to do the negotiating, because he realised Trotsky would get the blame for the bad terms which were obvious. He also realised if the allies won the war, they'd get thier land back. Quit Runescape 30th May 2006.Thanks to Hawkxs for my signature :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l0l0lpur32 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 On paper, Communism sounds great and better than Capitalism, unfortunately in the real world it's never worked out that way. I've never understood why people say this lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oegly41 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Based on what you see as Communism (Soviet), it was a total facist state - you could be Stalins righthand-man and still be executed. Seeing what Coummunism has done so far, i can't agree that it is democracy. And no, you couldn't have a facist democracy. Fascism always centres around a few lucky with all the power. Say you would have freedom of speech, and suddenly one of the lucky few starts thinking "no, i don't like to hear that" - and he (yes i said he) would remove that freedom. What's your option now as a people? Revolution? Perhaps, but you have the chief-staff still in control of the army. Thus, you either have Fascism or Democracy. P.S - I'm getting annoyed with all the USSR flags! God damn it, i should take the Nazi Germany flag as an avatar. People seem to have forgotten how many got executed during the Soviet era and how opressed the people were. I've never defined the Soviet Union as communism. That was slightly collectivized fascism. And fascism can be democratic. It's all up to whoever is in charge. If the elite decides to let people express themselves and listen to them, that is democracy in fascism. The hammer and sickle symbols industry and agriculture in a union, just like the swastika is supposed to bring good luck. Feel free to use it, but I am afraid you will have a lot of explaining to do. :| Filesharer.org - Upload your mugshot to support The Pirate Bay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_man_army Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 [hide=]There is quite a difference between Stalinism and traditional communism. That's what I put in the first post. And is it me or is Lenin overhyped? Otherwise not many people know much about Red Terror :| I know you put it in the OP but the post above mine (which I was referring to) didn't seem to make a distinction. In response to your point about Lenin, yes he is somewhat over-hyped, for some people he is close to being god like (ih the irony). Regardless of your political allegiances though, it was a remarkable to bring down such an old-time entrenched system like the Tsarist regime of the Romanov's. He did make a few failures, he was forced into the Brest-Litovsk Pact in order to end Russian involvement in WW1, he didn't deal with food shortages too well (he wasn't helped by having to fight the White Armies) and he was completely blindsided by Stalin's political maneuvering. The fact that he remains as the symbol of communism however, is more to do with the cult of personality that Stalin helped to create and exploit during his reign as he knew many of the people adored Lenin.[/hide] Lenin wasn't forced into the Brest-Litovsk pact, he sent Trotsky to do the negotiating, because he realised Trotsky would get the blame for the bad terms which were obvious. He also realised if the allies won the war, they'd get thier land back. Forced may be slightly misleading I'll concede, but the Bolsheviks had to end the war for Russia. Trotsky might have been sent to do the job but it was on behalf of the Bolsheviks and by extension on behalf of Lenin. As for getting their land back - there were no guarantees, Bolshevik rule had already antagonised the allied powers (to the extent that they'd support the removal of the Bolsheviks during the civil war), ideologically USA weren't in favour of communism and the Britain's historical & biological links with the Tsar would see them side with the Romanovs. Any of these reasons could have lead to them not getting the land back. They got lucky that the need to get vengeance against Germany after the war lead to them getting their land back in the Treaty of Versailles. Anyway, moving on from Lenin's legacy can we get back on-topic (although it's difficult to do that as the answer to the OP's question is simply no) He who learns must suffer, and, even in our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart,and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenticular_J Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 On paper, Communism sounds great and better than Capitalism, unfortunately in the real world it's never worked out that way. I've never understood why people say this lol. I know, the Soviet Union worked great. Oh... East Germany, for sure. No... China? Uh-uh. North Korea? We don't know... Cuba? I'll go look for one of the folks on floating goats. catch it now so you can like it before it went so mainstream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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