players complaints on combat traingle unequality

[losthopeandwings]

players have been complaining that warriors mages or rangers we unbalanced in runescape i tend to disagree when the enchanted crossbows came out everybody was scared rangers would be super powerful because of ruby enchanted and dragon bolts but rangers hardly use them except for monster killing for a long time ancient magiks was the most powerful thing out their and i fell to their hands many of times but since god swords came out everything seems all but balanced mages may have lost a slight edge but i see all areas of the combat triangle doing equally well as people have been saying rangers still do not have a weapon equal to the whip or a skill equal to ancient magiks

 

 

 

But warriors usually trade all their speed for power and mages usually trade in high hits for specials like freezing with ice blitz all range weapons besides crossbows and dark bow have fast hit rates and even then bolts can be enchanted to make up for this and dark bows can fire 2 shots at once

 

i think the more that they mess with the combat system the more they will screw it up like years ago when you had to be a ancient or get ur skull handed to you if they want to do something about combat they should fix the hit points problem like in a earlier post tip it had up all areas of the combat triangle have become powerful enough to finish any player off in just one or 2 hits and if ur supposed to be some amazing hero on runescape i think its pretty lame to die in one hit pretty much...

[losthopeandwings]

anyways what are your views on this pepole?

[Zierro]

Well now that I think about it I do think it's a bit unfair to give melee God Swords and not do anything about Magic. In my opinion they should make a God Staff or something along those lines. Ranged seems to be pretty good because of the bolt effects, but I do think they need some better armor.

[Owned_Nex]

Magic does not need anything better

 

 

 

Has anyone every considered that Ice spells has more "range" then ranged? You can just freeze, walk back, and Burst/Blitz/Barrage away. This works with any spells. Although the majority of people use Ice, Shadow and Blood are EXTREMELY helpful. Reducing your opponents attack to 0 is deadly against warriors, and stealing health in Multi-Combat is amazing.

[AFKfishing]

I think all forms of combat have their advantages and disadvantages but i guess that's why people make hybrids ;).Meele gets many updates. This gives them many choices of equipment but they all have one key weakness, the inability to hit more then 1 or 2 squares. Any ranger or mage with a brain will keep the pointy gs or dscim away from their soft man flesh :D . This means smart use of movement stopping spells for mages and ambushes/blitz's for rangers will help them prevail.

 

 

 

Mages, I think, complain because of lack of updates rather then mage being underpowered. Even with my ags I still tremble at the sight of the dreaded purple cross on a stick in castle wars :? . Mage does have the troubling issue of having almost no defense against rangers though.

 

 

 

Rangers are pretty much more powerful(damage wise) versions of mages. I think range is a pretty balanced fighting style. They have armor with decent defense stats and decent damage output, exception being the darkbow. They take a bit of meele( damage output and armor rating) and a bit of mage( attack range) and stuff it together into a well rounded package. This does have the disadvantage of rangers not being top notch in either armor, attack range and damage though.

 

 

 

But like I said in the first paragraph, use a mix of combat styles to cover their weaknesses and strengthen their advantages.

[Owned_Nex]

A problem I also see is SPECIAL ATTACKS.

 

 

 

Melee has a rediculous amount.

 

Range has a few useful ones(D BOW, MSB)

 

Magic has non whatsoever.

 

 

 

Specials are useful in k0ing. Take the DDS, or DBow Spec. AGS is also amazing. Magic has absolutely nothing.

 

 

 

Range and Melee's damage scales with damage as you level. Magic gets new spells. Old spells have the same max hit. Another thing is FAILING. With Melee or Ranged, you only have to worry about missing. Magic users must worry about failing AND resisting(magic term for hitting 0)

 

 

 

ONTOP of that, magic defense is Defense level PLUS Magi level, then a percent of that. That means your magic defense is usualy your highest defense for.

 

 

 

Another thing is armour. With melee and Range, most bonuses come form the weapon. You don't really NEED melee or range armour. With magic, unless you are using a weaker spell, you pretty much NEED magic armour.

[Will H]

Ever heard of punctuation?

 

 

 

The combat triangle is unbalanced, and it will degrade with every update unless Jagex makes an effort to change their direction. They must not make more powerful weapons, and should aim to restore the qualities of each combat style. For example, meleers should not be able to get close to mages, even if they are wearing dragonhide.

 

A month or so ago, I suggested a set of knockback spells which hit only opponents who are within a space of the caster, and ignore the opponent's magic defence, only relying on the caster's magic attack. They should cause no damage, but will stun for 10 seconds if successful and will send the opponent a maximum of four spaces away from the caster. A less powerful set (the four modern elements) should be for normal magics and a more powerful set (the four ancient elements, complete with effects) should be available for ancient magicks.

 

 

 

I believe this would fix the melee-dragonhide problem.

[Megamickel]

I disagree. I think that if meleers couldn't wear dhide, mage would be WAY OP. Mage can hit through black dhide, and all it takes is once per 15 seconds if you're using barrage. Now, if you're using barrage, I think once per 15 seconds is a strong possibility. Also, meleers using dhide requires them to train ranged... why not, as a mage, train melee and get a zgs, freeze them, then stand back and farcast, since dhide is weak against slash? A pure meleer vs a pure mager won't be ABLE to use dhide, so that's not really the issue. I think you just need to de-purify or you will get pwnt. Melee without dragonhide is screwed, whereas with dragonhide melee has some chance to hit.

[Will H]

I disagree. I think that if meleers couldn't wear dhide, mage would be WAY OP. Mage can hit through black dhide, and all it takes is once per 15 seconds if you're using barrage. Now, if you're using barrage, I think once per 15 seconds is a strong possibility. Also, meleers using dhide requires them to train ranged... why not, as a mage, train melee and get a zgs, freeze them, then stand back and farcast, since dhide is weak against slash? A pure meleer vs a pure mager won't be ABLE to use dhide, so that's not really the issue. I think you just need to de-purify or you will get pwnt. Melee without dragonhide is screwed, whereas with dragonhide melee has some chance to hit.

 

But a style is defined by the method of attack, the weapon, not the armour, neither should the skills which relate to a style which the player is not using. A guy with a godsword and black dragonhide is still a meleer, even if he has 99 ranged.

 

I have no problem with people hybridising with weapons, you should get an advantage because you're changing styles according to your opponent's style, but armour only follows the style. It doesn't dictate it.

 

If mages could annihilate meleers, it wouldn't make them overpowered in the slightest, it would just serve it's function well. If they could annihilate rangers, that would be a different problem. But the crucial difference is that a meleer with a godsword, black dragonhide and a half-decent level in magic can destroy a mage in a matter of seconds due to the mage's lack of defence against powerful melee weapons. So we get this:

 

 

 

Solution 1:

 

Give robes a significant melee defence but keep their ranged defence to a minimum. Unfortunately, this is a bit unrealistic as far as robes go, and melee weapons will probably still do too much damage.

 

 

 

Solution 2:

 

Very accurate close-combat knockback spells.

[munkis]

i wish people wouldent forgett the f2p question im not sure but f2p is atleast probobly as big in pking as p2p pking...

 

and melee have had a big advantage here even though u must hybrid to be really good

 

 

 

however on the balance thingy ive been away from runescape a few times where i dont know but i remmember when rs2 came out rangers had the upperhand then melee if im right then mage etc always going around they should try give the updates same time so that not 1 of them goes ahead with a new update? dont think ive ever heard about the triangle really working that perfectly if anytime it would be currently it seems quite even

 

 

 

i also would wonder if its posible to somehow make some extras in some way for people that doesent hybrid? to make pure melee or pure mage etc really good instead of hybriding?

 

 

 

i can add i havent been p2p in over years so its much posible im wrong on alot :oops:

 

so please correct me if i sound too noobish

[ultimatballr]

A problem I also see is SPECIAL ATTACKS.

 

 

 

Melee has a rediculous amount.

 

Range has a few useful ones(D BOW, MSB)

 

Magic has non whatsoever.

 

 

 

Specials are useful in k0ing. Take the DDS, or DBow Spec. AGS is also amazing. Magic has absolutely nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you thought about the fact that ancients can FREEZE people?.. What good is a DDS spec if you are 8 squares away from your opponent? Range is suppose to beat mage anyway so freezing them is really, kind of pointless, but still give you a chance at a quick out if you feel you will lose and don't worry yourself with the invisible code of honor.

 

 

 

Special effects are specials too, if you want to complain about specials complain about range having too many specs against mages. Melee does have the most specials using the bar, but what good are they, again, if you are 8 squares away and not getting closer?

[obfuscator]

What about giving the ancient staff a special attack? for example two hits in quick sucession, like the g maul. That would max at 60 damage, and not be too overpowered.

[fenrir321]

A problem I also see is SPECIAL ATTACKS.

 

 

 

Melee has a rediculous amount.

 

Range has a few useful ones(D BOW, MSB)

 

Magic has non whatsoever.

 

 

 

Specials are useful in k0ing. Take the DDS, or DBow Spec. AGS is also amazing. Magic has absolutely nothing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you thought about the fact that ancients can FREEZE people?.. What good is a DDS spec if you are 8 squares away from your opponent? Range is suppose to beat mage anyway so freezing them is really, kind of pointless, but still give you a chance at a quick out if you feel you will lose and don't worry yourself with the invisible code of honor.

 

 

 

Special effects are specials too, if you want to complain about specials complain about range having too many specs against mages. Melee does have the most specials using the bar, but what good are they, again, if you are 8 squares away and not getting closer?

 

Eight squares can be covered in less than a second. And you have immunity to freezing after the effect has worn off. What needs to be added is a set of kiting spells to reduce the target's run energy. This would make mages über against meleers without affecting rangers much.

 

 

 

There seems to be a mindset of "...need...to...k...o..." in the runescape community. If you have played Go, a gradual and more detailed plan almost always beats the so-called KO attack. And if there's any inequality in combat, it's mages in f2p. The only combat inequality in p2p is that the damn max hits are too high for the hp skill.

[Orly_Owl]

Godswords are inaccurate in comparison to even tank-maging, which, with ice barrage can completely destroy you, if you have a brain.

 

 

 

And please use punctuation.

 

 

 

P.S There's WAY too many threads on this now.

[Alg]

However, consider that a mage has to wear actual mage armor to be effective. A melee fighter can simply wear dragonhide and almost neutralize the mage's attacks. A mage also has two choices of attack that could actually do damage: Teleblock and a god spell for offense, which you'll need to wear the god cape and staff, and the enemy could run if you don't kill quickly, or ice and blood spells, which leave the enemy free to teleport. Combine that both with the cost per cast, which can't be recovered or is even guaranteed to work, and the fact that only a handful of monsters are effected by it enough to justify use (granted, they tend to be the profitable ones), and you have a combat style that isn't too good for combat. The main way one can use a hybrid mage style well is Vengeance, however, and that works well.

 

 

 

What sets magic apart is the amount of use it has outside of battle. The primary way to get around the map is magic based, the primary way to dispose of skill byproducts with return (trading them doesn't get rid of them), and all of the jewelry we use has to go through a high level mage to get its use. Its defence and offence factors are built into the skill, you can use more powerful spells and are more resistant to them at higher levels.

 

 

 

Melee has raw damage ability, range has speed, magic has almost any effect available in the game. It may not be so great in combat, it makes up for that outside of it.

 

 

 

It is worth noting, however, that it's great for lower levels fighting one another. It starts off more damaging than melee or range at equal levels, though slows down earlier. Range starts slower, and gets good later. Melee is balanced more, I'd think.

[sees_all1]

What I don't like is how with melee, there are 2 combat raising stats - based on tip.it's calculator, if you have 99 strength and 99 attack, you'd have a 67 combat level... and if you had 99 mage/range, you'd have a 50 combat level.

 

 

 

This puts melee at a generic disadvantage.

[killerbeer0]

Well, magic is seen as useless because people fail to use other excellent attack spells other than Ice.

 

 

 

Shadow blitz is amazing. Period. Who needs defense with that? Well, range will cause problems but a smart mage either decides to gtfo or farcast.

[pureprayer]

Well, magic is seen as useless because people fail to use other excellent attack spells other than Ice.

 

 

 

Shadow blitz is amazing. Period. Who needs defense with that? Well, range will cause problems but a smart mage either decides to gtfo or farcast.

 

Farcast = mager getting a Ddser (or dclawer) while trying to farcast because if you are farcasting another player can attack the mage.

[warrior5024]

*points at signature*

 

Magic is fine. Yes, a godsword can hit 70+, but, if your opponenet is frozen, their damage output is 0. Plus, you can tank waves of players with a handful of blood barrages combine with prayer and DFS. You can safe spot rangers and kill them as your lesure, so long as your freezing time doesn't run out. Shadow and Smoek spells are amazing, as 15% accuracy loss is a hefty chunk, and poisoning plus huge spell accuracy? Sign me up.

 

 

 

Everything si balanced for the most part, and, PJ's aside, the triangle is good.

[pureprayer]

*points at signature*

 

Magic is fine. Yes, a godsword can hit 70+, but, if your opponenet is frozen, their damage output is 0. Plus, you can tank waves of players with a handful of blood barrages combine with prayer and DFS. You can safe spot rangers and kill them as your lesure, so long as your freezing time doesn't run out. Shadow and Smoek spells are amazing, as 15% accuracy loss is a hefty chunk, and poisoning plus huge spell accuracy? Sign me up.

 

 

 

Everything si balanced for the most part, and, PJ's aside, the triangle is good.

 

 

 

Sorry but this is a factor because this will never happen. Im talking about when your farcasting and while your farcasting someone coming up and attacking you while you are still farcasting.

[warrior5024]

*points at signature*

 

Magic is fine. Yes, a godsword can hit 70+, but, if your opponenet is frozen, their damage output is 0. Plus, you can tank waves of players with a handful of blood barrages combine with prayer and DFS. You can safe spot rangers and kill them as your lesure, so long as your freezing time doesn't run out. Shadow and Smoek spells are amazing, as 15% accuracy loss is a hefty chunk, and poisoning plus huge spell accuracy? Sign me up.

 

 

 

Everything si balanced for the most part, and, PJ's aside, the triangle is good.

 

 

 

Sorry but this is a factor because this will never happen. Im talking about when your farcasting and while your farcasting someone coming up and attacking you while you are still farcasting.

 

 

 

Pj'ers aside.

 

I did say that.

 

They are just as easy to freeze and kill however, but they can be a problem. Jagex needs to make it so a mage that is not hit but attacking should be considered in combat.

[pureprayer]

*points at signature*

 

Magic is fine. Yes, a godsword can hit 70+, but, if your opponenet is frozen, their damage output is 0. Plus, you can tank waves of players with a handful of blood barrages combine with prayer and DFS. You can safe spot rangers and kill them as your lesure, so long as your freezing time doesn't run out. Shadow and Smoek spells are amazing, as 15% accuracy loss is a hefty chunk, and poisoning plus huge spell accuracy? Sign me up.

 

 

 

Everything si balanced for the most part, and, PJ's aside, the triangle is good.

 

 

 

Sorry but this is a factor because this will never happen. Im talking about when your farcasting and while your farcasting someone coming up and attacking you while you are still farcasting.

 

 

 

Pj'ers aside.

 

I did say that.

 

They are just as easy to freeze and kill however, but they can be a problem. Jagex needs to make it so a mage that is not hit but attacking should be considered in combat.

 

There will never be pj'ers aside. It might not be considered that because its no pile im not 100%.

 

 

 

Jagex needs to make it so a mage that is not hit but attacking should be considered in combat. YES

[Panzerlord]

only 1 major problem: d'hide has way too good melee def, so meleers, use it to unbalance the triangle,, making themselves a threat to rangers and mages alike :shock:

[warrior5024]

only 1 major problem: d'hide has way too good melee def, so meleers, use it to unbalance the triangle,, making themselves a threat to rangers and mages alike :shock:

 

 

 

Dragonhide isn't as resistant as people make it out to be. Plus, if a meleer hybrids and uses dragonhide, use range or melee to splice through it.

[losthopeandwings]

im quite aware magic is a good defensive and stopping tool for pking but otherwise its useless i mean how many monsters can u

 

use magic against effectively most powerful monsters or about anything u fight can be easier killed with a rune cross bow or melle but if u use mage u most likely far less better thats why at higher lvs mage is rarely trained tru combat but tru alcing or plank make or something because the exp and damage u do with it isint worth the price unless if ur pking or in cw or something

 

ive found recently that in the game it goes like this

 

 

 

monsters suck vs combat and range

 

players suck vs magic

 

 

 

so if u don't pk or fight players like i do not but for in mini games magic is useless to u besides the teleports and helper spells

 

 

 

in addition sorry for not looking at this post in a while i got alot of reply since then 0_o