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25-Nov-2008 Stealing Creation rewards system to change


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This is more of an update for low-med players. As in, around level 100. The majority of players are around the medium leve, it's common business sense that they should appeal to the largest group of players.

 

 

 

Maybe so, but you can see comments from higher leveled people regarding the lower levels constantly receiving new things all the time, this is just one more example of this happening. would it not be common sense to placate the higher levels for once instead of adding yet another update that the lower levels don't really need?

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Except of course if that business wants to keep the players once they become 'high'er leveled.

 

 

 

They care more about the low levels than the high levels and rightfully so. A LOT more low levels come in than high levels quit. Therefore, from a business standpoint, they should make more updates for low level to entice them.

 

 

 

Maybe so, but you can see comments from higher leveled people regarding the lower levels constantly receiving new things all the time, this is just one more example of this happening. would it not be common sense to placate the higher levels for once instead of adding yet another update that the lower levels don't really need?

 

 

 

 

It would be the right thing, but not the smart thing.

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Thanks to all those who have messaged me concerning a revamp of my Range-Slayer guide. Because of you all I will start rewriting it asap.[/color]

 

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Except of course if that business wants to keep the players once they become 'high'er leveled.

 

 

 

They care more about the low levels than the high levels and rightfully so. A LOT more low levels come in than high levels quit. Therefore, from a business standpoint, they should make more updates for low level to entice them.

 

 

 

Maybe so, but you can see comments from higher leveled people regarding the lower levels constantly receiving new things all the time, this is just one more example of this happening. would it not be common sense to placate the higher levels for once instead of adding yet another update that the lower levels don't really need?

 

 

 

 

It would be the right thing, but not the smart thing.

 

 

 

Let us look at WoW for a moment. This game is mostly higher level content. Granted it does not take as long to get to the higher level content, mostly everything is done once you max your character. WoW is the most successful MMORPG in the history of gaming. Sure you pay more for the game but doesn't that prove that higher level content is worth making so as to keep your players playing. Becuase I do not know if you realise this or not but the most important thing to a MMORPG is keeping their clients playing so that the same revenue comes in every month. Regardless of how many players you have coming in (especially in a game that offers a free part of the game), keeping thos that you have seems way more important than getting new players. Games like WoW, Everquest, and soon to be Warhammer prove that the model works. The only thing that Runescape has over those games is the wide variety of things that EVERY player can do.... and they are dimishing that by continually releasing items that make it easier... gf business model.

 

 

 

And where the hell is my quest?

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Look at the age group on WoW compared to Runescape. Most, if not all of WoW players are atleast in later grades of high school or in college. They know that working hard for a little while has it's rewards at later stages. Now look at the age group of Runescape. Most of the players are around middle school-early high school, and hell, a little bit of elementary thrown in. Younger players have no patience, they want what they want and they want it now. They won't wait two years until their level 138 for it. Jagex is being smart.

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Thanks to all those who have messaged me concerning a revamp of my Range-Slayer guide. Because of you all I will start rewriting it asap.[/color]

 

Formerly RobinHoodie.

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Actually, robinhoodie, I think you are quite wrong in this case. I used the Sacred Clay Scimitar at Pest Control and was hitting up to 27s with it, non potted. So assuming we gain double the exp (8 exp per damage) with it after the update, and you were to use it with a black mask and piety and potions, you'd probably be able to hit around 34-35s with it...meaning that would be like hitting 68s with the whip. It is also the same speed as the whip, and is actually fairly accurate.

 

 

 

So no, I have to disagree. I think it has lots of potential being far better than the whip for training. Not for killing in general, but for training the combat stats themselves.

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It's nice to finally see my suspicions confirmed, I told one of my friends to get all the points he could NOW on the day of realease because it was certain Jagex was going to nurf the current points system. It was obvious people were getting points and rewards wich such ease at a rate that was not intended, tons of people were running around with tools and full sets of combat gear on the first day. :lol:

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Actually, robinhoodie, I think you are quite wrong in this case. I used the Sacred Clay Scimitar at Pest Control and was hitting up to 27s with it, non potted. So assuming we gain double the exp (8 exp per damage) with it after the update, and you were to use it with a black mask and piety and potions, you'd probably be able to hit around 34-35s with it...meaning that would be like hitting 68s with the whip. It is also the same speed as the whip, and is actually fairly accurate.

 

So no, I have to disagree. I think it has lots of potential being far better than the whip for training. Not for killing in general, but for training the combat stats themselves.

But do you use the level 3 scimmy?
If the CORPORAL beast is this hard, imagine how hard a GENERAL or COLONEL beast would be. a corporal is not even an admirable rank in armies that use that ranking system.

 

Yeah, it is a pking minigame, so any arguments anybody makes will probably be biased.

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The worst way this will end: I don't really know, psychological warfare? Worldwide thermonuclear war? Pie eating contest?

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Look at the age group on WoW compared to Runescape. Most, if not all of WoW players are atleast in later grades of high school or in college. They know that working hard for a little while has it's rewards at later stages. Now look at the age group of Runescape. Most of the players are around middle school-early high school, and hell, a little bit of elementary thrown in. Younger players have no patience, they want what they want and they want it now. They won't wait two years until their level 138 for it. Jagex is being smart.

 

 

 

While I can agree that the age of the general community does play a factor in this, that is another subject altogether. I mean why are they catering to younger players anyway?

 

 

 

I digress. If we look at this from a business standpoint, as you seem bent on, we will need to look at the nature of MMORPGs. The longer a player plays, the more money you make off of that player. So for the instance of these low-mid level updates that allow for faster experience gains, you are shrinking the amount of time that it takes to achieve goals that a player might set for themselves, enticing them to play but not continuing to play. So this player achieves its higher level goal, gets bored and quits. Let us say that it took a year to accomplish that goal. So you have a years worth of revenue from that one player.

 

 

 

Instead, if we continue to keep the experience levels the same, but instead of allowing you to level faster, give you an incentive to level. So the same player started playing and sees the benefit of having a high crafting level for instance. He still has his goal, it takes him longer to achieve it AND he has a reason to continue playing once he achieves it. Even if it still took that player a year to achieve that goal like the last (even with slower experience rates though that seems unlikely) the business would benefit past that point because the player would have a reason to continue playing because that achievement was meant to gain access to that high level content.

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The point I was trying to make is that he shouldn't expect the weapon to be better than the whip.

 

 

 

But I was honestly surprised with your finding and using the max hit calc on Tipit, I find them a lot better I expected, but still not great..With max str bonus, on slayer task, super potted, and using Superhuman strength, the max is 38. Now at x4 the hit, that would yeild 152 exp. Add in the +10%(is it plus 10% or double the exp for melee weapons?) and that's 167 exp. With the same equipment but with a whip instead, the max is 47. That would yield 188 exp. The whip is still better. Of course if it's double the exp(I doubt it, but it could happen I suppose), then the Clay Scimitar completely destroys the whip.

 

 

 

Edit:Ah i see now that it is double the exp.Wow.. this could revolutionize training.Great, but just for clarification, I wasn't trying to say that the Clay Scimitar is bad. I was trying to say that people shouldn't expect every weapon to be the next whip. Although this one might be. o.o

 

 

 

 

Look at the age group on WoW compared to Runescape. Most, if not all of WoW players are atleast in later grades of high school or in college. They know that working hard for a little while has it's rewards at later stages. Now look at the age group of Runescape. Most of the players are around middle school-early high school, and hell, a little bit of elementary thrown in. Younger players have no patience, they want what they want and they want it now. They won't wait two years until their level 138 for it. Jagex is being smart.

 

 

 

While I can agree that the age of the general community does play a factor in this, that is another subject altogether. I mean why are they catering to younger players anyway?

 

 

 

I digress. If we look at this from a business standpoint, as you seem bent on, we will need to look at the nature of MMORPGs. The longer a player plays, the more money you make off of that player. So for the instance of these low-mid level updates that allow for faster experience gains, you are shrinking the amount of time that it takes to achieve goals that a player might set for themselves, enticing them to play but not continuing to play. So this player achieves its higher level goal, gets bored and quits. Let us say that it took a year to accomplish that goal. So you have a years worth of revenue from that one player.

 

 

 

Instead, if we continue to keep the experience levels the same, but instead of allowing you to level faster, give you an incentive to level. So the same player started playing and sees the benefit of having a high crafting level for instance. He still has his goal, it takes him longer to achieve it AND he has a reason to continue playing once he achieves it. Even if it still took that player a year to achieve that goal like the last (even with slower experience rates though that seems unlikely) the business would benefit past that point because the player would have a reason to continue playing because that achievement was meant to gain access to that high level content.

 

 

 

Yet if they keep everything as it is right now(catering to younger players and low levels) then they still get that years worth of subscrition before they quit while they have a better chance of getting more players to pay that fee because they don't get bored as they(as a low level) get a lot of updates.

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Thanks to all those who have messaged me concerning a revamp of my Range-Slayer guide. Because of you all I will start rewriting it asap.[/color]

 

Formerly RobinHoodie.

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After the change, no Combat experience will be given inside the Stealing Creation minigame. Instead, the sacred clay combat equipment rewards will give experience in the same way that the tools do.

 

 

 

I can't see using a slightly better rune scimitar with 10% exp boost being better experience then using a whip.

 

 

 

It will double your exp, not give a 10% boost.

 

 

 

In fact, while you are using a sacred clay tool or piece of combat equipment, the experience you gain will be doubled!

 

 

 

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My point is more of offer something that makes someone want to shoot for it as a goal then have a reason to contiue playing. Judging from your highscores you are a combat player. Once you max your melee why would you continue playing Runescape? There are incentives to have a higher level combat. Respect not withstanding, you have more things open to you, better methods of making money, etc. As a player you have a reason to play because once you get those goals you will have an easier time of doing things thus increasing your enjoyment of the game. Jagex has you in their trap because the content that you enjoy for whatever reason because honestly Runescape combat is terrible, has a benefit sticking in there and leveling.

 

 

 

Now let us say that you tried WoW and found that the engagement of their combat system leaves you desiring to taste the 1600 bracket on PvP (combat actually worth playing imo). Why would you then go back to Runescape? With maxed combat, all you would be able to do in Runescape is kill some more GWD bosses or perhaps the Corperal (sp?) Beast. While in WoW, you have a bracket of players who adapt to you every game and engage you in ways Runescape could only wish to do. Which would you stick with? A game that rewards the time you spend playing it (and revenue that the business gets), or one that caters to players that may or may not stick with the game. In other words, they are hoping to net a few more players while not caring if the people stick around. Would you take my word of Runescape being an awesome game being combat 110+ or that of a combat 50? I have played it, have experience in every aspect, and know what I talking about. If I tell my potential friends this game sucks I am sure that it will hold more water than my 12 year old nephew who is half my level.

 

 

 

Now I love Runescape. I have played it since nearly day one, I was an active member of the RS forum thread that was the basis of Castle Wars when the RSOF first cam about. I have been a part of several clans and am known as a very helpful person among my friends. I care about this game and the people that play it. I hate to see it catering to those that probably will not stick around anyway. WoW is my combat fix and Runescape is everything else. I would hate to have to play WoW all of the time because of the enjoyment that I get from Runescape. Only problem is that now that my skills are leveling out I am failing to see a purpose in continuing to play. I am a loyal customer and yet it seems like I am continuing to get crapped on. What incentive do I have to continue playing? or more so tell more of my friends to play which is up to about 15 people that I know in real life that play because of me.

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Well, if an update is bugged what do you do?

 

Well, I would fix the bugs.

 

Jagex, well... they just going to nerf it all to hell and think its job well done.

 

Can't be bothered to fix the tool animation and inconsistent xp rewards.

 

Can't be bothered to balance the game point system.

 

But hell yea if we can make everything degrade faster and take your points away.

 

Sloppy and pathetic minigame....

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I have 860k points I am wondering if the tools are stackable in the bank? Im planning to buy all the tools until I have just about 210k points.

 

 

 

They don't stack, but even if they did you wouldn't be able to buy them. You can only buy one tool after each game is played. If you log out you lose your chance to buy a tool for that game.

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So in other words, run up and get 10 tools, 10 pieces of armor and 200k points because you know they will make it harder to get items. That whole "reward points" conversion thing is what scares me.

 

 

 

I guess the real issue here is how long will the item be giving double xp.

 

For example: If it takes 20 minutes to get the clay scimmy, and you can train with "double xp" for 20 minutes it is a wash. Just train for the full 40 minutes and get the same xp (plus any drops you would have gotten).

 

At least for money-loss skills like construction, smithing and crafting, it will save you the gp but wc and fishing will actually cost you gp because you will get less logs/fish.

 

It all really depends on the time you can "utilize" the item for.

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This sounds pretty lousy to me, to be honest. Anyone who had a million+ points saved basically just got smashed in the face. It's perfectly possible to win 100k+ points per game, so having over a million points saved isn't unreasonable.

 

 

 

"Spend your points now" huh? Except for the fact that you can't spend it on tools, since you need to play one more game for each tool. And seeing as you'd easily get 100k+ points per game anyways, you wouldn't be "spending" many points unless you're just sitting there the whole time doing nothing. While I suppose many would do that, wouldn't that make the game less fun for current players? The team with the fewer leeches will probably be the one winning. Typical Jagex, designing updates in a manner that incites more anger between players.

 

 

 

Buying armor isn't much of an option either. Seeing as it'll degrade with usage rather than transforming, it won't be ideal, cheap to lose PK gear for people like me who aren't very good at PKing.

 

 

 

Also, I hear a lot of people talking about how the XP is going to be weapon only. I doubt it. If only the weapon gives bonus XP, why would anyone wear the other 3 items? They do the same thing as now, except they degrade with no bonus at all. If it's XP per piece, then you'd have to accept an inferior helm to get the full 100% bonus. The plate and legs are arguable, since many level 120+ still use rune, but the helm is undeniably weaker than the other helmets available (Black mask, Slayer Helmet, Helm of Neitiznot, Berserker / Warrior Helms, Fighter's Hat, etc). Even the body + legs mean that you lose access to barrows gear, proselyte if you're praying, magic defense gear if you're fighting spectres without prayer, etc. On that note, many slayer monsters will automatically prevent you from using a helm. There goes a chunk of your bonus.

 

 

 

Finally, the most gruesome possibility is that all the pieces must be worn. That would make the set very restricted in usage, since you can't use it for many slayer tasks thanks to lack of helm, you don't want to use it for slayer thanks to lack of black mask / slayer helmet (With the possible exception of undead tasks, where Salve(e) still works).

 

 

 

Also, why is everyone focused on the melee gear? Melee combat stats are usually the first maxed by anyone, and probably the easiest to train as well. What about Rangers? Oh right they get to train with a YEW LONGBOW if they want bonus XP. Yea, that's going to be useful. And if armor is required... one more nail in the coffin. Yew Longbow + Green Dragonhide equipment.

 

 

 

The armor will become extremely limited in usage, even more so than it is now.

 

 

 

Finally, it's worth noting that even if you do have a use for the armor, and even if you didn't have to play 1 game per tool...

 

 

 

10 tools + 10 pieces of armor = 20 bank spaces. Hell, farming doesn't even take up that many bank spaces unless you keep every single random seed like potato and onion, and they gave us an extra few rows for that. These items don't stack. They don't go in the house. You can't save the points and buy the equipment when you want it.

 

 

 

All in all, this intended fix seems to also, in the process, degrade the rewards.

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DOUBLE? I just got 70 Crafting and Smithing -.- .

Retired

2146 overall - 136 combat - 6 skillcapes

 

Plus I think the whole teenage girl thing will end soon (hopefully), because my girlfriend is absolutely in love with him(she is 18), and im beginning to feel threatened by his [Justin Bieber] dashing looks.

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Well, I had been suggesting on the RSOF for a small bit of skilling xp in-game along with some new rewards.. so this isn't exactly what I wanted. It is somewhat reasonable, though. I guess I should spend up my points now and kiss the remaining points good-bye.

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Well, if an update is bugged what do you do?

 

Well, I would fix the bugs.

 

Jagex, well... they just going to nerf it all to hell and think its job well done.

 

Can't be bothered to fix the tool animation and inconsistent xp rewards.

 

Can't be bothered to balance the game point system.

 

But hell yea if we can make everything degrade faster and take your points away.

 

Sloppy and pathetic minigame....

 

 

 

Did you even read the whole message?

 

 

 

They are giving better, consistent exp rewards.

 

They are balancing the game point system.

 

They are taking points away so that all the people who cheated before can't instantly get all the good rewards.

 

They will probably fix the animations and bugs with the update.

 

 

 

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*looks at his 33 tools in the bank....*

 

 

 

Time to start smithing! I think I am going to play the hell out of this game now, so I can reap the smithing rewards while still possible. For addy bars its over 2x the exp right now...

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*looks at his 33 tools in the bank....*

 

 

 

Time to start smithing! I think I am going to play the hell out of this game now, so I can reap the smithing rewards while still possible. For addy bars its over 2x the exp right now...

 

 

 

I thought it was + 30 xp on all smithing items. Addy bars give over 60 xp each so I dont see how you get 2x the xp? If I am wrong, use them now, since longer lasting double xp > shorter lasting double xp (when update kicks in) of course.

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*looks at his 33 tools in the bank....*

 

 

 

Time to start smithing! I think I am going to play the hell out of this game now, so I can reap the smithing rewards while still possible. For addy bars its over 2x the exp right now...

 

 

 

I thought it was + 30 xp on all smithing items. Addy bars give over 60 xp each so I dont see how you get 2x the xp? If I am wrong, use them now, since longer lasting double xp > shorter lasting double xp (when update kicks in) of course.

 

 

 

My mistake, lol...I looked at smelting exp.

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