Yes, we do. However, sharing neighbor's wireless hardly counts as something I would report. Concrete statements, that hold backing, are the ones that should be reported.

 

WOw: I didn't know the attitude of pmods has sunk so low that it's now "normal" to report things out of their scope! I'm really happy I disagreed with being a pmod a looooong time ago. (I don't agree with their 3rd party software rule, as well as with this attitude).

 

 

 

You know: law-enforcers have their own "scope": and they should be strict within their scope, and relax outside it!

 

 

 

Look if I don't make my homework I'm going against the "laws" of the university: however I can easily say this to a policeman: he wouldn't do anything about it. It's not of his business. Though the profs wouldn't be too happy.

 

Similar if I drive too fast when trying to reach university in time, I can gladly say that to my profs: they won't do anything with it (maybe say "hopefully you're not caught"), yet saying it to a cop isn't the most clever thing to do.

 

 

 

Both rule-enforcers have their scope: and they will give punishment if you commit a crime within their scope. But if it's outside their scope they couldn't care less: and that's just the way it should be. Since this creates an atmosphere of trust: you know who does what and who you can trust with what information!

 

Once the cops start reporting my not-done-homework towards the profs life would get much harder: you would've constantly keep everything you do secret and you can't trust anyone with sensitive information: you'll never know if they turn it in!

 

 

 

Now back to runescape: JAGEX (and hence the pmod, which are just a stretched part from jagex) should stay within ther scope: THE GAME. Anything bad inside/directly related to the game they should punish/resolve. However things which haven't anything to do with the game they shouldn't care about!

 

 

 

 

 

On top of that, those laws are by far not universal: in the netherlands the one whose internet is "stolen" has to PROVE he lost money/time/sensitive information, or anything hbad happened. AND he has to prove he made efforts to keep his internet secure!

 

 

 

Even ethical questions aren't as universal as many people think: those can differ 100% from time to time and place to place. Just look at the so called "universal" rights of men: many countries didn't sign them, and their citizens find it completely normal. So please, don't start here with laws, or ethical issues: runescape is a worldwide game - so there is no general thing here!

Useless mod. He should lose his position for that..Kick him from your clan. I'm sorry, but any mod that goes THAT LOW shouldnt be one. "Oh boy, which clan member am I going to report today?"..

 

 

 

Anyways, there isnt much Jagex can do about it, besides complain to the Embassy or maybe the State Department and its not like they give a f--- either. And its such a minor "federal crime" your clanmate isnt going to end up in prison...Christ, that REALLY pisses me off..

 

 

 

GOOD AND MORAL?! ARE YOU HIGH?! WTF IS MORAL ABOUT SNITCHING ON ONE OF YOUR BUDDIES?! He isnt doing anything to harm the person's connection, and while YES its wrong, the other person should care enough to secure the line. How would you like it if someone snitched on you for something that menial?

 

 

 

 

 

Such a petty reason to report someone...What, hes got a quota or something?

Unless I missed a memo saying we have to report to Jagex about the wrong doings of a player in rea life, I don't think it's reportable. Or at least I won't report it.

 

 

 

If people really do report for things like that, I don't think it's limited to pmods. Would you have made this topic if the person who said that was non-pmod?

Useless mod. He should lose his position for that..Kick him from your clan. I'm sorry, but any mod that goes THAT LOW shouldnt be one. "Oh boy, which clan member am I going to report today?"..

 

If reporting a real-life criminal is tantamount to saying "Oh boy, which clan member am I going to report today?", I humbly suggest you choose another clan.

 

 

 

Anyways, there isnt much Jagex can do about it, besides complain to the Embassy or maybe the State Department and its not like they give a f--- either. And its such a minor "federal crime" your clanmate isnt going to end up in prison...Christ, that REALLY pisses me off..

 

- They can ban him.

 

- Maybe it didn't happen in the USA? In civilised countries, it's much more than a "minor federal crime".

 

 

 

GOOD AND MORAL?! ARE YOU HIGH?! WTF IS MORAL ABOUT SNITCHING ON ONE OF YOUR BUDDIES?!

 

Such a criminal isn't anyone's "buddy".

 

 

 

He isnt doing anything to harm the person's connection

 

In many countries and/or with many internet providers, one can ony download a given amount of data each month. Not to mention, having two users at the same time slows down his connection. So yes, he is doing harm.

 

 

 

and while YES its wrong, the other person should care enough to secure the line. How would you like it if someone snitched on you for something that menial?

 

I don't do such things. It's simple.

 

 

 

Such a petty reason to report someone...What, hes got a quota or something?

 

Petty? The guy was a real-life criminal.

 

Seriously, are you suggesting people should be reported and banned for something as harmless as swearing language, but not for actual real-life theft?

Petty? The guy was a real-life criminal.

 

Seriously, are you suggesting people should be reported and banned for something as harmless as swearing language, but not for actual real-life theft?

 

Ok, this is frustrating me...you have no basis to call him a real-life criminal any more than I do calling Jeff Dunham a real-life serial killer (he's a ventriloquist/comedian who says "I kill you!" a lot with one of his dummies).

 

 

 

JaGex can only take IN-GAME action against accounts for wrongs which are done IN-GAME - so logic tells us that yes, people should be reported and banned for something as harmless as offensive language, and not for actual real-life theft.

Petty? The guy was a real-life criminal.

 

Seriously, are you suggesting people should be reported and banned for something as harmless as swearing language, but not for actual real-life theft?

 

Ok, this is frustrating me...you have no basis to call him a real-life criminal any more than I do calling Jeff Dunham a real-life serial killer (he's a ventriloquist/comedian who says "I kill you!" a lot with one of his dummies).

 

 

 

JaGex can only take IN-GAME action against accounts for wrongs which are done IN-GAME - so logic tells us that yes, people should be reported and banned for something as harmless as offensive language, and not for actual real-life theft.

 

You have a point. I was, of course, arguing under the assumption that the guy was actually serious.

 

 

 

Nevertheless

 

- If you argue the guy was only joking about stealing bandwidth, you might as well argue that the moderator was only joking about reporting him

 

- The action of saying he steals someone's bandwidth is still an ingame action, an action which can have arguably worse consequences than using swearwords. After all, using swearwords will, in the worst case, make some people feel insulted for a while. Freely admitting that he steals someone else's bandwidth (without indicating that it's a joke) might, again in the worst case, convince some people that bandwidth-theft is a socially acceptable behaviour and/or the victim's fault for not securing his wireless network.

- If you argue the guy was only joking about stealing bandwidth, you might as well argue that the moderator was only joking about reporting him

 

- The action of saying he steals someone's bandwidth is still an ingame action, an action which can have arguably worse consequences than using swearwords. After all, using swearwords will, in the worst case, make some people feel insulted for a while. Freely admitting that he steals someone else's bandwidth (without indicating that it's a joke) might, again in the worst case, convince some people that bandwidth-theft is a socially acceptable behaviour and/or the victim's fault for not securing his wireless network.

 

I wouldn't have a problem with people suggesting the moderator wasn't being serious, and yes - the action of saying he steals someone's bandwidth is an in-game action...which there is no rule against.

I wouldn't have a problem with people suggesting the moderator wasn't being serious, and yes - the action of saying he steals someone's bandwidth is an in-game action...which there is no rule against.

 

True, there are no rules against "claiming to commit real-life crimes". That is also why I would not report such a person if I heard him saying such things in-game. (though I'm sure it's against the "spirit of the game" ;) ).

 

 

 

I am merely dissapointed by the large amount of people who seem to think that bandwidth theft is a trivial, completely harmless thing, or even the victim's fault:

 

If their neighbors don't have a wireless password, whose problem is it really? :thumbup:

 

In Belgium, you might have to stay up to 3 years in prison for stealing bandwidth.

 

I know it happens everyday. Most people think "what's wrong with it, it doesn't harm anyone". But the law is clear : if you have no permission to use the wireless network, you can be punished for using it.

There are some cases though where it is your responsibility to make sure it is a secured connection and in failing to do so you are establishing it as a public connection. As far as I know there isn't a national law about it here in the U.S.

If you break the law, you'd better know the consequences and not cry "unfair!" when you actually get caught. Yes, the problem is, people get away with it too much.

 

 

 

I'm simply shocked about the attitude of some people. "Who cares about it anyway? It's not within the Jagex rules!" If there was a murderer in your clan chat who admitted it - and wasn't just trolling - would you let him go? I wouldn't. Don't give me the "it's a minor crime" male-oxen-hit, because a minor crime is still a crime. Again a line that springs to me from a Maddox article - are 10 murders any better than 20 murders if the murders are avoidable? As far as I'm concerned, hell no.

 

 

 

"I am going to kill you. I am going to go to your house right now, and slice you to pieces then feed you to your dogs. Unless of course you give me a sum of money, then I may be willing to spare your life. :)" --- Zomg call the police and make sure they send the swat!!! Wait, what's this? he's referring to killing him in the game and going to his poh that has hounds in the dungeon? Oops...sorry for wasting your time mr police officer.

 

 

 

Even if they consider it to be a serious threat, they can't go directly to the authorities...they would have to first contact the player(s) in question and make sure they weren't just joking around.

 

 

 

Nice theory, except that in most proper countries (i.e. {countries on the Earth \ USA}), you can get into a great big mess if enough people give a damn just for such a joke. Once I heard a true story about some policemen who were ordered to go investigate some party 'cause it was too loud. So they went there, and an obviously drunk guy came out with a toy gun, one which shoots water, and fired it. In turn, one of the policemen shot down that guy. Of course, he didn't get in trouble because it was self-defense - how was he to know the gun wasn't real and dangerous?

I swear player mods get more stupid every month. #-o

WOw: I didn't know the attitude of pmods has sunk so low that it's now "normal" to report things out of their scope! I'm really happy I disagreed with being a pmod a looooong time ago. (I don't agree with their 3rd party software rule, as well as with this attitude).

 

Wait, what? Why did you quote me? Sure I am going to report crimes against a nation. Something as trivial as sharing a neighbors's wireless hardly counts though. Also, since the reporter does not know the connotation, or full story, it is just as well that it be left alone.

 

I swear player mods get more stupid every month. #-o

 

Player moderators are people just like people using this board, and Runescape. In theory, you are saying you could do no better of a job, and thus calling yourself "stupid." While I do not wish to come off as attacking you, player moderators are far from the scope of other players. Most people will just dwindle our responsibilities to reporting, which is a large understatement. Even the act of reporting is difficult. Including strict memorization of rules, lack of bias or ethics, and determining whether reporting betters Runescape, and keep the player from doing that action deemed inappropriate from doing it again. Although there are many personalities of player moderators, I would consider myself lax. For example, if I meet someone at the Grand Exchange and he happens to blurt something trivially offensive, chances are I would not report it, as many others would do. However, if this type of behavior considered, it would be worth a report, as some might take notice and therefor offense. The benefit of the doubt is a powerful tool, but must be kept it balance. On the other hand, a warning could be given, as some have "advised" me before reporting (despite the fact that reporting would not be the answer), however, this is often taken the wrong way as a threat or officious authority. Which brings to scale another balance, keeping your own reporting in check, while not degrading player moderator's status in general. For example, if player moderators went around reporting every offense they saw, chances are people would not seem to want to talk to them or socialize near them. Which is not quite the image anyone wants. The crown besides a player moderator's name itself is a powerful image. It either shows other players that your a generally knowledgeable person, and someone to come to with help with the rules or otherwise. However, player moderators are exactly that, players. Constantly, people ask questions about your status, how you were chosen, and the list goes on. To be frank, not many people like that either, which can often cause the player moderator to ignore the player, which again, does not add to the overall image of a player moderator. This often leads people to believe that moderators are "snitches" and unfriendly people, which is an unfortunate conclusion, as most are just as "normal" players are - friendly. So we must conclude that it is a two-way street, which few will understand. While I cannot say that this pertains only to player moderators, which it does not, a fair bit of the intricate complications are. I suppose I forgot to mention that all of this must be thought out in less than a minute.

 

 

 

Also, whoever is saying that they were trying to kiss-up, that is extremely doubtful.

 

 

 

i'm pretty sure, i've not seen or heard anything about it and i've been a mod for 2 years. obviously if you are threatening to kill someone on runescape or something incredibly stupid like that, yeah then they should be reported. minor offences like this are just insubstantial and don't need to be bothered with by anyone.

 

Yeah, like you said, minor ones need not be reported. I just recently learned that things such as planned attacks, hate crimes, etc need to be sent in.

 

 

 

Unless I missed a memo saying we have to report to Jagex about the wrong doings of a player in rea life, I don't think it's reportable. Or at least I won't report it.

 

 

 

If people really do report for things like that, I don't think it's limited to pmods. Would you have made this topic if the person who said that was non-pmod?

 

I completely forgot that for some reason. This is not only limited to player moderators. Every player has the little red button.

your whole paragraph there, laura, is not something i fully agree with, mainly on all the thinking about reporting and all that. i for one, do not report in my chat, unless i have a damn good reason to, usually, i just kick and or ban, many of the pmods that come in my chat have power, but they are encouraged to do as they feel, not sure if it ends up with reports or kicks, probably both. but still. all that thinking stuff is irrelevant to my personal modding. if i see something, i think "do i really care enough to report?" generally, the answer is no, unless it's a website advertiser or something like that. it's just not that big of a deal, if i see the same person doing it repeatedly, such as in my clan chat or something, i'll warn and kick, and report if they repeat it. i'm not a heavy reporter at all, i never have been, i think all of my reports, except for 1 or 2 have been spot on.

 

 

 

as for the image of pmods, i do hate how we are viewed by a lot of people, namely once i speak in public chat, and see someone say "ew mod" or something to that effect, to which my reply is "ew, normie". then i usually get in a lengthy discussion about how mods aren't something to "ew" at, we are just like everyone else. our image could stand to be improved, i do my part by not making pmods look even worse than we are perceived. i'm genuinely happy with how i've seen pmods ingame, even before i was one, i don't entirely get where we get our image from, except that we are seen as positions of authority, and people don't like authority.

You have to seriously be clueless to find this in the least bit surprising.

 

Jagex bans you for tons of trivial things that can be considered asking for personal details.

 

Hell they ban you for joking about cheating in the game.

 

And its suprising that they ban you for bragging about commiting crimes in real life?! :wall:

 

 

 

I certainly won't hesistate to report you and I don't have a silver crown next to my name.

 

Hell I've already reported a few people for letting me know they smoke pot.

 

Haven't seen them around anymore too. :P

He isnt doing anything to harm the person's connection

 

In many countries and/or with many internet providers, one can ony download a given amount of data each month. Not to mention, having two users at the same time slows down his connection. So yes, he is doing harm.

 

 

 

Yeah, for one most people buy the $20 unlimited bandwith package, i don't think most companies offer anything but that anymore. Its 2008 not 1988. Not to mention the fact if someone did have a limited-bandwith package a decent wi-fi router would cost them the price of a few months of internet service just to buy the router. And all routers tell you at setup if you do not encrypt your signal ANYONE can access it.

 

 

 

1. Any "federal crime" that would be reported through Jagex would take weeks if not months to be proccessed.

 

 

 

2.Using a neighbors wi-fi signal is not against the law in most states and is not in federal jurisdiction if it was a crime.

your whole paragraph there, laura, is not something i fully agree with, mainly on all the thinking about reporting and all that. i for one, do not report in my chat, unless i have a damn good reason to, usually, i just kick and or ban, many of the pmods that come in my chat have power, but they are encouraged to do as they feel, not sure if it ends up with reports or kicks, probably both. but still. all that thinking stuff is irrelevant to my personal modding. if i see something, i think "do i really care enough to report?" generally, the answer is no, unless it's a website advertiser or something like that. it's just not that big of a deal, if i see the same person doing it repeatedly, such as in my clan chat or something, i'll warn and kick, and report if they repeat it. i'm not a heavy reporter at all, i never have been, i think all of my reports, except for 1 or 2 have been spot on.

 

 

 

as for the image of pmods, i do hate how we are viewed by a lot of people, namely once i speak in public chat, and see someone say "ew mod" or something to that effect, to which my reply is "ew, normie". then i usually get in a lengthy discussion about how mods aren't something to "ew" at, we are just like everyone else. our image could stand to be improved, i do my part by not making pmods look even worse than we are perceived. i'm genuinely happy with how i've seen pmods ingame, even before i was one, i don't entirely get where we get our image from, except that we are seen as positions of authority, and people don't like authority.

 

Dunno how it came across, but I generally have the same views as you. There is really no reason to report unless it is something serious or offensive. And I am like you in the sense that I do not report frequently, the last time was a few weeks ago, for, like you said, a website advertiser. But, every time I do report, those are the thought processes I try to go through. :oops:

 

 

 

For instance, there was a guy at the GE purposely saying "Who wants to burn Jews with me?" People saw me talking to a friend, and told me to come over. So I did, and figured, well, maybe it was a typo. And then it occurred repeatedly after he was "lolololol" and people politely asked him to stop, which he did not. It was one of those time where the offense was not trivial; he was doing it purposely, trying to be funny, even after people told him it was offensive and to stop.

Ok, so basically, I've narrowed down the list of all people on this thread who are actually somewhat ethical and admit that stealing is wrong:

 

 

 

psvstef

 

aharonsafe

 

Killerred005

 

joker2022

 

lordkafei

 

laura0077

 

diib

 

Fairness

 

 

 

Thank you to all of these people! At least I'm not alone.

 

 

 

I will absolutely and totally agree that the pmod was overzealous and he did not need to report anything. I also realize that if the accused thief actually did steal bandwidth like he claims, then it is very unlikely that Jagex will do anything about any report. The one and only point I want to get across: using a neighbor's internet is stealing, and stealing is wrong.

You obviously know nothing, this is not a federal crime, it would be considered petty theft at most, its legality is questionable in some states,however it is legal. The player moderator was most likely a kid who thought it was illegal after the incident in florida, since you are broadcasting internet to the world it is not a crime to access the internet through your neighbors wifi. Good question though, I asked my lawyer about it, :lol: .

Yes, we do.

 

 

 

No, you dont.

 

Are you sure about that?

 

 

 

 

Let law enforcement do their job if they see it unfit that using someone elses internet *gasp* is such a terrible crime.

 

 

 

You're a player moderator for an online MMORPG, its not any of your business what someone does outside of the game unless its trying to meet up in real life which this is far from being anything related to that.

 

 

 

Reporting someone for saying theyre using someone elses internet is like reporting me if i said i stole an ipod from walmart.

Yes, we do.

 

 

 

No, you dont.

 

Are you sure about that?

 

 

 

 

Let law enforcement do their job if they see it unfit that using someone elses internet *gasp* is such a terrible crime.

 

 

 

You're a player moderator for an online MMORPG, its not any of your business what someone does outside of the game unless its trying to meet up in real life which this is far from being anything related to that.

 

 

 

Reporting someone for saying theyre using someone elses internet is like reporting me if i said i stole an ipod from walmart.

 

 

 

Go ahead laura, report "crimes" think it will matter,no, it won't. You'll have a hard time trying to find a set of rules to enforce,also, there are public computers which makes tracking these "criminals" very hard, then jagex has to usually contact another countries cybercrime lab, if your local police department has one. Laura, your position as a player moderator is not a police officer, your power, you aren't going to bother anyone in real-life.

I'll give you two reasons why this is BS.

 

 

 

1, Jagex is a English company and has no legal obligation to report federal crimes.

 

 

 

2, Using someone else's wireless internet is not illegal in most country's, so it would only apply to some people then even in Country's where it is illegal you can only be charged/prosecuted if the person who's internet or the company who owns the internet service wish to take legal action.

 

 

 

The UK, Most of Europe & USA both have laws against knowingly using someone else's internet without consent but as I said above, its down to the ISP/ Bill payer to prosecute

 

 

 

Topic closed nothing much left to discuss here.

Ok, so basically, I've narrowed down the list of all people on this thread who are actually somewhat ethical and admit that stealing is wrong:

 

 

 

psvstef

 

aharonsafe

 

Killerred005

 

joker2022

 

lordkafei

 

laura0077

 

diib

 

Fairness

 

 

 

Thank you to all of these people! At least I'm not alone.

 

 

 

I will absolutely and totally agree that the pmod was overzealous and he did not need to report anything. I also realize that if the accused thief actually did steal bandwidth like he claims, then it is very unlikely that Jagex will do anything about any report. The one and only point I want to get across: using a neighbor's internet is stealing, and stealing is wrong.

'ere, yewr keepin' tabs on us? Yew never told us you'd be doin' dat, you didn't! Dis changes everythin'...

 

 

 

Or maybe not. Was the only reason you started this thread to feel high and mighty because YOU would report a petty offense that really has no bearing on this game, consuming Jagex Customer Support time? I mean, sure it IS wrong, but is this sort of thing any of Jagex's business? Furthermore, if it is not illegal in the area in question, than it's just between that person, his neighbors, his conscience, and any deity he may worship.

I'll give you two reasons why this is BS.

 

 

 

1, Jagex is a English company and has no legal obligation to report federal crimes.

 

 

 

2, Using someone else's wireless internet is not illegal in most country's, so it would only apply to some people then even in Country's where it is illegal you can only be charged/prosecuted if the person who's internet or the company who owns the internet service wish to take legal action.

 

 

 

The UK, Most of Europe & USA both have laws against knowingly using someone else's internet without consent but as I said above, its down to the ISP/ Bill payer to prosecute

 

 

 

Topic closed nothing much left to discuss here.

 

 

 

I have mentioned that above, also using someones internet is only illegal if you break into a password protected network, then it becomes petty theft, NOT A FEDERAL CRIME, jeesh, when will people learn the difference :roll:.

First of all, a Player Moderator should be ready to report/mute an online predator, which is in fact, a federal crime. It wouldn't make sense that they shouldn't handle it, especially when they're in a position to take immediate action.

 

 

 

Second, while it's arguable that leaving your wireless internet means is not technically theft, there are two clauses to it:

 

 

 

a) It's not a federal offense, not in the United States. Source In the source, the highest punishments go up to, it looks like, is twenty years, under some serious cases. Using a wireless signal to commit a federal offense overrides the smaller offense, naturally, as the case would be tried in Federal court anyway.

 

 

 

B) It's still unethical. Just because I leave my wireless signal open doesn't automatically give you the right to tap in and use it whenever you damn well please. I'd still lock my router down as much as I could anyway. I wouldn't just use anyone's old wireless signal, unless I had permission. Of course, that doesn't change the fact that there are dozens of free wireless signals around here...

2, Using someone else's wireless internet is not illegal in most country's,

 

Oh really? Citation needed.

 

Note : it may be that many countries do not have explicit laws against using someone else's wireless internet, but it might sill be forbidden under more general theft laws.