Brief analysis of time/money expenditures on 99's

[Grimy_Bunyip]

So this will be an analysis of a few(not all skills)

 

The hope is to put some perspective on how much time/money it takes to train a skill to 99

 

 

 

I'm going to keep this short so i am going to be taking ALOT of liberties, and they are going to be listed as follows:

 

[hide=]The following skills will not be analyzed because they're much too difficult to get good estimates on

 

Attack

 

Strength

 

Defense

 

Hitpoints

 

Ranged

 

Magic

 

Summoning

 

Slayer

 

Farming

 

Runecrafting

 

 

 

Assume 500k gp/hour income

 

Next everything will be taken from the perspective of someone who makes 500k gp/hour

 

obviously someone who makes MORE money will have an easier time with say, herblore

 

 

 

Only use common training methods

 

Oh hey, your data is inaccurate, i know how to earn 300k xp/hour with construction while earning 4 mil gp/hour using this glitch!

 

or hey i know this awesome training spot where i can get 150k str xp/hour

 

i don't want to hear it

 

I am only using common training methods, like i said i want to keep this short

 

 

 

THE NUMBERS ARE VERY APPROXIMATE

 

sry guys i dont have the time to spend taking measurements

 

but if you know accurate numbers please do contribute!

 

 

 

Runecrafting ommitted

 

Due to the nature of the 500k gp/hour assumption, runecrafting must be omitted

 

on the way to 99, most of a runecrafter's time will be spent crafting double natures

 

during which time he will be making 1000k gp/hour

 

thus voiding the original 500k gp/hour assumption, we run into some problems... like a potentially negative time/money ratio rating...

 

 

 

The numbers do not account for Pain

 

Hunter, easier than cooking? no wai! well if you were a robot that would be true

 

the numbers are cold hearted

 

they do not care for the fact that cooking can be AFK'ed and hunter cannot

 

nor do they care about the fact that it can be painful finding a good chin world

 

 

 

I often take high level training methods

 

this analysis is about training to 99

 

sure, you might need lvl 74 construction to do dungeon doors

 

but lvls 74 -> 99 still make up the bulk of uctionthe xp to 99 construction

 

 

 

OMFG WHY IS HERBLORE THAT HIGH

 

cuz the income rate is taken to 500k gp/hour

 

a very substantial population of RS earns more than 500k gp/hour

 

but for someone who makes only 500k gp/hour, an expensive skill like herblore can be very very painful

 

remember all the numbers are taken from the perspective of a 500k gp/hour income

 

 

 

Assume that you buy/sell all your resources

 

technically because of opportunity costs this doesnt really make a difference

 

but some people don't get opportunity costs, so lets just leave it at this[/hide]

 

 

 

Analysis

 

[hide=]Sample calculation:

 

Lets take for example, Firemaking

 

you can burn say ~1k maple logs per hour, and with flame gloves and fire ring

 

that comes out to roughly 140k xp and 36k gp lost in that hour

 

during that hour you paid the opportunity cost of the 500k gp you COULD have earned

 

in the end you paid 536k gp for that 140k xp

 

therefore you get a time/money factor of ~3.83 gp/xp

 

 

 

Data:

 

(Alot of this is only accurate to one or two significant figures, so just bear with it)

 

Agility: assume 50k xp/hour with no gain or loss

 

Fishing: Barbarian fly fishing, assume 50k xp/hour with 160k's worth of fish from your granite lobster, caviar, and the equivalent time/money factor * agility + str + cooking xp

 

(note that i calculated monkfish, sharks, lobsters as well, unless you use swordfish gloves or etc they dont measure up to barbarian fly)

 

Fletching: Yew longbow stringing, assume 1000 yew longbows strung/hour

 

at current market prices that comes out to : 75k xp/hour with 25k profit/hour

 

Construction: oak dungeon doors, with a butler and oak planks 300k xp/hour, 2250k gp loss/hour

 

Herblore: Saradomin brews, made from toadflax, vials of water, and crushed birds nests, 114k xp and 1200k gp loss/hour

 

Cooking: assuming sharks with a 5% burn rate, 200k xp/hour with 7k gp loss/hour

 

Hunter: assume 400 red chins caught per hour, 106k xp + 256k profit/hour

 

Smithing: assume 800 addy platebodies smithed/hour, 250k xp/hour + 1400k gp loss/hour

 

mining: assume granite mining at 65k xp/hour and no profit or gem mining at 40k xp/hour and 200k profit/hour, the two numbers come out to be near equivalent at 500k gp/hour profit. I dont have numbers for gold ores

 

Thieving: assume pyramid plunder at lvl 91, 200k xp/hour and neglible profit/loss

 

Firemaking: explained above

 

prayer: 1000 bones per hour, 252k xp/hour, 1850k gp loss/hour

 

Woodcutting: 350 yew logs cut per hour, ~ 60k xp/hour and 150k profit/hour[/hide]

 

 

 

old data

 

[hide=]The numbers:

 

Ratios are listed the units of gp/xp

 

 

 

10.00 Agility

 

6.80 Fishing

 

6.33 Fletching

 

9.17 Construction

 

14.91 Herblore

 

2.54 Cooking

 

2.30 Hunter

 

7.60 Smithing

 

4.36 Crafting

 

7.69 Mining

 

2.50 Thieving

 

3.83 Firemaking

 

9.33 Prayer

 

5.83 Woodcutting

 

 

 

what does this translate to on the way to 99?

 

(note that this counts the time it takes to earn money for a skill, it also counts profit earned as negative time)

 

130 mil gp or 260 hours [Agility]

 

88 mil gp or 177 hours [Fishing]

 

82 mil or 165 hours [Fletching]

 

119 mil or 238 hours [Construction]

 

194 mil or 388 hours [Herblore]

 

33 mil or 66 hours [Cooking]

 

30 mil or 60 hours [Hunter]

 

99 mil or 198 hours [smithing]

 

57 mil or 114 hours [Crafting]

 

100 mil or 200 hours [Mining]

 

33 mil or 65 hours [Thieving]

 

50 mil or 100 hours [Firemaking]

 

121 mil or 243 hours [Prayer]

 

76 mil or 152 hours [Woodcutting]

 

 

 

remember that these numbers are very approximate

 

prayer may be 0.16 higher than construction but in the end that's within the error bound of the data

 

 

 

I hope this may prove to be useful fodder in your future (NO THIS SKILL IS HARDER) debates :[/hide]

 

 

 

 

[ghoulmeister]

Very interesting, this really puts things into perspective. Also explains why agility is such a pain to train... :wall:

[Master_Smither]

Nice I guess but 500k gp/hr is a bit much for the average person. Other than that it's fine.

[IMSecure]

I wish i earned 500k an hour....

 

 

 

The most most people can make is 300-400k unless they really try while multitasking and remembering to check several things at once...also getting lucky helps

 

 

 

Boss Hunting + Merchanting + NPC Trading + MTK + Herb farming all at once...

 

 

 

other than that, i dont know any methods to get 500k an hour...

 

 

 

but pretty cool and helpful nontheless

[aeternitatis]

Hmm, lets say I have 92 Firemaking and I am going for 99. This would mean I am already halfway there, so I should divide your result for Firemaking by two. I don't make 500k an hour though; I probably make 250k an hour, which means I should double those results which would make them the same as they were before I tampered with them right?

 

 

 

This seems good, but as a few others have stated before me, the average player who attempts to get 99 in a skill does not make 500k an hour. It would make more sense if you used 200k an hour.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I wish i earned 500k an hour....

 

 

 

The most most people can make is 300-400k unless they try...

 

 

 

Boss Hunting + Merchanting + NPC Trading + MTK + Herb farming all at once...

 

 

 

other than that, i dont know any methods to get 500k an hour...

 

 

 

but pretty cool and helpful nontheless

 

 

 

really? i guess i overestimated

 

i could redo this for 350k gp/hour, but i'll get to it tomorrow

 

 

 

most people i know earn AT LEAST 300-400k gp/hour

 

very very few people make less than that except for the "oh it's my first or second month of RS" batch

 

on the other hand most veterans i know have cracked a way to earn 500k-1000k gp/hour without merchanting or runecrafting

 

i felt like 500k gp/hour was a good balance between the two

 

 

 

but thanks for the contributions, ill get around to tweaking it tomorrow probably :

 

 

 

Hmm, lets say I have 92 Firemaking and I am going for 99. This would mean I am already halfway there, so I should divide your result for Firemaking by two. I don't make 500k an hour though; I probably make 250k an hour, which means I should double those results which would make them the same as they were before I tampered with them right?

 

 

 

This seems good, but as a few others have stated before me, the average player who attempts to get 99 in a skill does not make 500k an hour. It would make more sense if you used 200k an hour.

 

okay okay i recognize i have grossly overestimated the income of the average RS player

 

thx for the input everyone

[Outsanity]

I don't agree with this. You're trying to pass off this "data" as fact because in your mind training a skill loses cash because you COULD be making money during that time instead of training. But that's like saying an actor is giving up money because he/she COULD be going and working a regular shift job at some local diner instead of auditioning. No. They audition to open oportunities for more money and/or more exposure in the business.

 

 

 

People train skills because they want to train skills. If you want to make money, make money. Seeing as how it is IMPOSSIBLE to make 500k gp an hour doing most skills it doesn't make sense to say you're losing cash. You're only losing hypothetical cash which doesn't exist anyway because you CHOSE to spend the time to train the skill.

 

 

 

To me, this just sounds like you're trying to make people think they're wasting all this cash only skilling when in reality they're helping their accounts by skilling. Higher skills usually mean an account that can do more/achieve more in the game.

 

 

 

I mean, honestly, I see people with billions of gp and I am NOT jealous. At the end of the day, it's your skills people see and really admire, not really your bank account.

[kunasako]

Neat idea but Mining definitely doesn't take only 200 hours, 300 is probably a minimum.

 

 

 

Plus you have to remember some of these skills not only take this cost in "time" but also near to doubles when you include how much you're actually spending with real cash.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

I don't agree with this. You're trying to pass off this "data" as fact because in your mind training a skill loses cash because you COULD be making money during that time instead of training. But that's like saying an actor is giving up money because he/she COULD be going and working a regular shift job at some local diner instead of auditioning. No. They audition to open oportunities for more money and/or more exposure in the business.

 

 

 

People train skills because they want to train skills. If you want to make money, make money. Seeing as how it is IMPOSSIBLE to make 500k gp an hour doing most skills it doesn't make sense to say you're losing cash. You're only losing hypothetical cash which doesn't exist anyway because you CHOSE to spend the time to train the skill.

 

 

 

To me, this just sounds like you're trying to make people think they're wasting all this cash only skilling when in reality they're helping their accounts by skilling. Higher skills usually mean an account that can do more/achieve more in the game.

 

 

 

I mean, honestly, I see people with billions of gp and I am NOT jealous. At the end of the day, it's your skills people see and really admire, not really your bank account.

 

you may find this hard to accept but

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_costs

 

"in your mind training a skill loses cash because you COULD be making money during that time instead of training"

 

is a concept taught in even the most basic economic classes

 

it might as well be accepted as fact

 

 

 

additionally you should realize that 500k gp/hour income is necessarily JUST gp

 

experience has a value as well, gp is simply a means of measuring that

 

take green dragon hunting, easily 400k gp/hour with combat experience

 

or say bones to peaches tablets, easily 350k gp/hour with magic experience

 

broad bolt fletching can make 300-500k gp/hour depending on market conditions

 

runecrafting makes 300-400k gp/hour at lower levels

 

and of course all of these numbers can be rounded up slightly because of the experience they get

 

as well as the fact that players sometimes farm/MTK/zaff's battlestaffs in their spare time which boosts their average income even further

 

 

 

i recognize that 500k gp/hour may be pushing it

 

but that value really really cant be off by more than 100-150k gp/hour

 

 

 

Neat idea but Mining definitely doesn't take only 200 hours, 300 is probably a minimum.

 

 

 

Plus you have to remember some of these skills not only take this cost in "time" but also near to doubles when you include how much you're actually spending with real cash.

 

ive personally timed it and gem rocks are 40k xp/hour, that comes out to 325 hours of mining + cash

 

and like i said the cash counted as negative time

 

OR i counted granite power mining to be 65k xp/hour, which i consider a reasonable assumption when zarfot claims he can max 80k xp/hour powermining granite

 

200 hours is a perfectly reasonable assumption

[kudos6969]

how do you make 500k an hour thats not 91+ rc? cant kill anything for 500k an hour unless you go based on luck drops and skills are even worse money. Ive got alot more money than most people i meet yet a large amount of people earn 500k+? and i have never gotten anything more than luck drops. all be it if you avg out the time spent at gwd to money ive earned from it,im on like 4m per hour, but thats not realistic its luck.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

how do you make 500k an hour thats not 91+ rc? cant kill anything for 500k an hour unless you go based on luck drops and skills are even worse money. Ive got alot more money than most people i meet yet a large amount of people earn 500k+? and i have never gotten anything more than luck drops. all be it if you avg out the time spent at gwd to money ive earned from it,im on like 4m per hour, but thats not realistic its luck.

 

(82 rc makes 400-500k gp/hour btw)

 

(500k gp/hour can earned killing green dragons in chaos tunnels w/o luck based drops)

 

 

 

the typical rs gamer may only average say 350k gp/hour

 

but you have to take into account several things:

 

experience has a value, so income can be defined as profit + value of xp gained

 

also that income should be boosted slightly by farming, manage thy kingdom, and zaff's battlestaffs

 

all of which earn much more than 500k gp/hour and will boost a player's average income

 

finally it isnt always fair to take it from the perspective of the poorest RS gamers

 

 

 

if i went down to say 250k gp/hour income the numbers for hunter would blow up because on your way to lvl 99 at one point you would somehow be earning more money than your average income

 

that is the same reason i dropped 99 runecrafting because you cant have 500k gp/hour income and be well on your way to 99 runecrafting at the same time

 

 

 

additionally richer, or at the very least more well informed gamers tend to know better ways to make money

 

I and several other members of my clan have stumbled onto at least 3 ways to earn 1 mil gp/hour involving skills that arent runecrafting/combat/luck related

 

 

 

i dont wish to divulge many of these techniques but for example, i dont know if it still works but

 

if you have 95 cooking you could at one point buy partial summer pies (2/3) off ge for minimum price

 

add cooking apples to them, which you could buy for a very small price

 

and resell the raw summer pie on ge for max price, in the end netting you over 400 gp profit a pie

 

also this was not a make x so a pie could literally be completed in just over one per second

[Moad14]

the typical rs gamer may only average say 350k gp/hour

 

but you have to take into account several things:

 

experience has a value, so income can be defined as profit + value of xp gained

 

also that income should be boosted slightly by farming, manage thy kingdom, and zaff's battlestaffs

 

all of which earn much more than 500k gp/hour and will boost a player's average income

 

finally it isnt always fair to take it from the perspective of the poorest RS gamers

 

 

 

How can you tell us that xp counts as money, then not tell us at what value you put each skill's xp? Also, I have a rather decent character (though some may disagree) but even counting xp as cash, my rate is nowhere near 500k/hour. At least reduce it down to 400k an hour, though I'd prefer even further, a sum that will be more applicable to the general population.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

How can you tell us that xp counts as money, then not tell us at what value you put each skill's xp?

 

I did, it's the end result of the entire analysis is essentially the value put on each xp, 10gp/xp for agility for example Also, I have a rather decent character (though some may disagree) but even counting xp as cash, my rate is nowhere near 500k/hour. At least reduce it down to 400k an hour, though I'd prefer even further, a sum that will be more applicable to the general population.

 

 

i do plan to reduce it down to 400k gp/hour just give me some time, i just have some other stuff to deal with at the moment

 

i am reluctant to bring the value of the income much lower because the numbers become unstable when the income of the player relates too closely to the profit made from skilling

 

 

 

once again im reluctant to bring the income down too low because that would require me to remove profitable skills off the list

 

runecrafting being a prime example

 

i'll bring the income down to 350-400k and cross my fingers that nothing drastic happens

 

 

 

i'll also try to adjust smithing, construction, and fletching seeing that they were the most affected by stealing creation

 

 

 

anyways thanks for your comments :

[Punitive_D]

I think this can be a useful tool in analyzing which skill is easier.

 

 

 

Here's another way: Assuming that players are rational maximizers of their own benefit (i.e. promote their own ease), couldn't you just count how many of each sort of cape there is out there? The more of a particular cape that exists, the easier that cape is to get (apparently). Does anyone keep track of how many 99's there are of each skill?

[compfreak847]

I think this can be a useful tool in analyzing which skill is easier.

 

 

 

Here's another way: Assuming that players are rational maximizers of their own benefit (i.e. promote their own ease), couldn't you just count how many of each sort of cape there is out there? The more of a particular cape that exists, the easier that cape is to get (apparently). Does anyone keep track of how many 99's there are of each skill?

 

RS players are stupid. Hence all the slayer capes. Opportunity cost is correct and MUST be calculated. Although I disagree with some of your numbers, good post overall. And the average player can EASILY make 500k; killing avansies with 90+ range is 600k + 60k XP by itself.

[Moad14]

RS players are stupid. Hence all the slayer capes. Opportunity cost is correct and MUST be calculated. Although I disagree with some of your numbers, good post overall. And the average player can EASILY make 500k; killing avansies with 90+ range is 600k + 60k XP by itself.

Yes to opportunity costs, those are extremely important in a game like RuneScape.

 

I do question your money-making method though, since "the average player" does not have 90+ range. I'm still waiting for someone to explain how "the average player" goes about making 500k an hour. :|

[x1992x]

if you want the avage player, i think you should takke nr.2m on hiscore and and the highest(99) and the take the middle :P then he is between and is avage(i know in some cases it may change, i would calculate it that way ;) )

[Moad14]

if you want the avage player, i think you should takke nr.2m on hiscore and and the highest(99) and the take the middle :P then he is between and is avage(i know in some cases it may change, i would calculate it that way ;) )

 

If I understood you properly, then you recommend that I find the median player on the high-score list, not the average overall member, then ask him how much money he makes an hour? I'm so confused.

[x1992x]

if you want the avage player, i think you should takke nr.2m on hiscore and and the highest(99) and the take the middle :P then he is between and is avage(i know in some cases it may change, i would calculate it that way ;) )

 

If I understood you properly, then you recommend that I find the median player on the high-score list, not the average overall member, then ask him how much money he makes an hour? I'm so confused.

 

 

 

sorry if you did't understand me :oops: what i mean is that you take the last on the highscore and the first, then take the lvl en between, i believe that is the avage player, in a case of range, where the lvl was 90(above discusion) if you nr.2m on the highscore is 80 then the avage player got 90 range, but that is not the case.

 

 

 

heres an exsample:

 

number 2m is lvl 60.

 

number 1 is lvl 99.

 

then the lvl in middle is 80, and i believe that is the avage players lvl, when only taking the players on the highscore into the calculation.

 

 

 

i sorry if it's hard to understand, its 1.30 am here and i'm very tired :|

 

 

 

edit: i am only talking about finding the avage lvl, not how the make money ;)

[Laura]

the typical rs gamer may only average say 350k gp/hour

 

but you have to take into account several things:

 

experience has a value, so income can be defined as profit + value of xp gained

 

also that income should be boosted slightly by farming, manage thy kingdom, and zaff's battlestaffs

 

all of which earn much more than 500k gp/hour and will boost a player's average income

 

finally it isnt always fair to take it from the perspective of the poorest RS gamers

 

 

 

How can you tell us that xp counts as money, then not tell us at what value you put each skill's xp? Also, I have a rather decent character (though some may disagree) but even counting xp as cash, my rate is nowhere near 500k/hour. At least reduce it down to 400k an hour, though I'd prefer even further, a sum that will be more applicable to the general population.

 

Technically, it is money. The same can be said for the reverse. Independently, they are what the are, GP and XP. However, when you connect and relate the two, they are only means of seting a value for the other. This is why I disagree with your statement of lowering his 500k average. Sure, you may only be getting 350k GP per hour, but in relations to XP, you're probably earning 500k.

[magmaguard3]

good data. I'll save it for the future. \

[NukeMarine]

For people moaning about his use of 500k - It's a baseline figure. "YOU" can use the exact same calculations for "YOUR" choice of income and time to skill.

 

 

 

It's a good chart, it plays off popular threads that wanted players opinion on GP per hour tasks and XP per hour tasks. It helps you decide - should I go the slow route which cost less gp to advance a skill (chop and burn willows), or just chop willows and burn maples. Should I fish monks for more xp, less profit or sharks for less xp, more profit?

 

 

 

For it to be more detailed would take the effort of more than one person. One guy may like to bank his logs, another guy may like to burn them. One may bank gold items from Pyramid Plunder, another may just drop them. One may smith items at the blast furnace, another at the bank. To make matters worse, little changes and updates will radically alter the equation (big duh there).

 

 

 

So again, good chart. If you have a problem with the numbers, he gave you how he got it so make your own changes to fit your needs.

[bbjoe282]

hunter is wrong. 400 red chins per hour cannot be sustained for very long and requires an almost empty spot and complete concentration. also, only an idiot would spent money raising hunter you can get 99 spending less then 5k easily.

[Grimy_Bunyip]

thanks for the input guys, it finally occured to me to simply create a diagram with several training methods and the associated costs at several incomes

 

 

 

i'll remake my spreadsheet and post a screenshot of what i get

 

i'll be able to add several magic training methods and runecrafting hopefully

 

im sorry i didnt think of this earlier

 

 

 

PS thanks for the input bbjoe but i believe i mentioned in my assumptions that 400 red chins/hour is taken from the perspective of a heartless robot who conveniently stumbled accross an empty chin world

 

 

 

also... what do you mean spend money raising hunter? are you referring to a different skill?

[bbjoe282]

Sorry completely skipped over the section on how this was based off of opportunity cost. although the number of 400 chins per hour can still only be reached at the upper 90s so if you were to make a blanket average for 63-99 it would be around 300 per hour.