Determining if SC tools\armor are worth using

[compfreak847]

I've seen a lot of confusion as to what skills are worth training or not worth training with Stealing Creation items, so I thought I'd post this as food for a thought, so to speak.

 

 

 

Now, in the average game of Stealing Creation, most players get around 25-35k point points per game. It works on a very changing scale; from 1-25k points, you get a large amount of 'reward points' at the end of the game (http://www.runescape.com/kbase/viewarticle.ws?article_id=836), but beyond that you get very few points; while 22 points (25k in game points) is easily gotten in the first 10-12 minutes, getting the current maximum seen of 145k points will only net you 25 end game points! As such, the most usually gotten in a game is 24 points, and most players choose to get the 'easy' 22 ponts at the beginning, or even less, and spend the rest of the game PKing. A game is 20 mintues game time + 2 minutes waiting time, so 22 minutes per game. For simplicity's sake, we will assume that 22 points are an average, and not count the time taken to get too\from the minigame location, as these vary widely by player. As such, we will obtain exactly 3 tools per hour.

 

 

 

Each tool offers double XP for 60k XP in a skill. This means that 1 tool = 30k XP for free, with only the time taken to obtain the tool as a draw back. Therefore, stealing creation = 90k XP\hour. This allows us to use a very simple method for determining if a skill is worth using SC items on:

 

 

 

If you can obtain over 90k XP\hour in that skill, it is not worth using. If you can only obtain less under 90k XP\hour ini that skill, SC tools are worth using. Sample calculations:

 

 

 

Melee can be trained at 100k XP\hour with 190k profit at Armored Zombies. Stealing Creation armor is not worth using.

 

Range can be trained at 160k XP\hour with 0 profit using a combination of Chinchompas and Avansies. Stealing Creation armor is not worth using.

 

Smithing can be trained at 60k per hour using addy bars to make bolts. Stealing Creation items are worth using.

 

 

 

Now, this does not cover a fairly important point: Profit. On a skill that loses money, SC is more likely to be useful; it shortens the time losing money training the skill. The reverse is also true; on a skill that makes money, SC is less likely to be useful. However, this is not as much of an issue for most skills; the tools SC provides are for more intermediate skills which neither lose nor gain large amounts of GP during training. Smithing is somewhat of an exception in that it loses large amount of money; this makes SC tools very good for smithing. This also does not account for how enjoyable a skill or SC is; if you find a particular skill like mining very tedious, but enjoy SC, it will make it more likely that you will do SC for your tools, even if it means a small amount of time lost, simply because you can spend less time doing something you dislike (mining) and more time doing something you like (SC).

 

 

 

Some of you may consider this common sense, but I felt like posting it after all the incorrect info I saw being given on SC items.

 

 

 

Mods, please move if this is in the wrong section.

 

 

 

[hide=]In other unrelated news, I lost my void range to a d clawer in a PVP world an hour ago. I'm not happy.[/hide]

 

 

 

EDIT: Posters have been saying that they get XP amounts different then 60k per tool. In that case, the required XP to break even is (XP per tool / 2) X 3.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

1. Can you confirm that the tools last for 60K experience all around? This would make calculations of how many Iron plates that I have to make very easy. :D

 

 

 

2. Take into account that combat isn't what would benefit the best from SC tools, but the more tedious or expensive skills, namely Crafting and Mining. With four to five tools, mining Granite, with an enhanced Water tiara, one could gain between 150K to 300K mining experience very quickly.

[compfreak847]

1. Can you confirm that the tools last for 60K experience all around? This would make calculations of how many Iron plates that I have to make very easy. :D

 

 

 

2. Take into account that combat isn't what would benefit the best from SC tools, but the more tedious or expensive skills, namely Crafting and Mining. With four to five tools, mining Granite, with an enhanced Water tiara, one could gain between 150K to 300K mining experience very quickly.

 

Yes, I'm almost positive. I haven't tested the exact XP, but it's very close to 60k. I'm assuming it's exact, as it would make more sense then some random number. And yes, mining granite is 120k+ XP\hour. Which is amazing for me, as I love SC but hate mining. And I have to get 80 for SC, so it's even better. I'm smithing in a PVP world hotspot as we speak, getting 130k XP\hour 8-)

[Angelic]

Not all of them last for 60k experience. My axes lasted for approx. 32k xp each.

[compfreak847]

Not all of them last for 60k experience. My axes lasted for approx. 32k xp each.

 

Ehh? I can testify that smithing hammer lasts for 60k. Perhaps others don't. This might require further testing...

[Angelic]

Check: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=774739&start=60

 

 

 

Quite a few posts with people saying how much extra xp they got with them.

[walka92]

edit. nvm

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Yes, I'm almost positive. I haven't tested the exact XP, but it's very close to 60k. I'm assuming it's exact, as it would make more sense then some random number. And yes, mining granite is 120k+ XP\hour. Which is amazing for me, as I love SC but hate mining. And I have to get 80 for SC, so it's even better. I'm smithing in a PVP world hotspot as we speak, getting 130k XP\hour 8-)

 

Okay, flex calculations can be done to accommodate between 50 and 60K experience. Of course, you can consider smithing in the Wilderness (north of the Green Dragons or near the Pirates' hideout), which will net you easily 260K experience. Then, you'll just need an efficient way to get from there and back.

[Th3_Crusader]

I thought using a SC Scimitar would help me in strength training since I'm on my last level before 99. Wow. lol I don't think it even lasted 30 minutes to be honest. Yes it was a fast 15k-ish but I don't think I want to run back and forth to recharge it. Some would think otherwise but its a pain to run back and forth from the top floor of the slayer tower. :|

[muggiwhplar]

Yes, I'm almost positive. I haven't tested the exact XP, but it's very close to 60k. I'm assuming it's exact, as it would make more sense then some random number. And yes, mining granite is 120k+ XP\hour. Which is amazing for me, as I love SC but hate mining. And I have to get 80 for SC, so it's even better. I'm smithing in a PVP world hotspot as we speak, getting 130k XP\hour 8-)

 

 

 

Are you using the brawling gloves or something in combination with them?

 

 

 

Or do you get some sort of bonus XP for skilling in PvP worlds that I'm unaware of?

 

 

 

Also, how do the armor sets work? Couldn't you get more melee XP than 100k if you wore like a clay torso and legs at the monkey zombies? Would this double your chinning XP if you wore range clay? Mage XP if you were barraging rock lobs?

[Kekek]

With 90k/hour speed my SC pick lasted for 6-7mins, so it is far away from 60k xp.

[wolfmon56]

Yes, I'm almost positive. I haven't tested the exact XP, but it's very close to 60k. I'm assuming it's exact, as it would make more sense then some random number. And yes, mining granite is 120k+ XP\hour. Which is amazing for me, as I love SC but hate mining. And I have to get 80 for SC, so it's even better. I'm smithing in a PVP world hotspot as we speak, getting 130k XP\hour 8-)

 

 

 

Are you using the brawling gloves or something in combination with them?

 

 

 

Or do you get some sort of bonus XP for skilling in PvP worlds that I'm unaware of?

 

 

 

Also, how do the armor sets work? Couldn't you get more melee XP than 100k if you wore like a clay torso and legs at the monkey zombies? Would this double your chinning XP if you wore range clay? Mage XP if you were barraging rock lobs?

 

 

 

 

 

The first day I did some tests with the stuff.

 

No you can't wear the plate & legs or what ever and get double double exp.

 

On defense mode, I was getting 10k~ def exp every 5 mins. so in 30mins I got 60k~ exp and it went from 100% to 0% in 30mins.

 

 

 

A few days later, it seem'd to go from 100% to 0% A LOT faster, so I think they made them go down faster.

 

 

 

With the hat, I was doing 7 rock lobs, each cast on 3-7 rock lobs, it was taking away 1% charge per cast. I went through 3 hats in ~30mins and got 150k~ exp.

 

 

 

With the hammer, it takes away .6% per steel bar. (dunno if type of bar makes a difference)

 

 

 

That's all I figured out so far

[acenator]

I can confirm that the morphic tool doesn't alwasy net 60k exp each tool. I took some granite mining and got about 16k exp per tool (I got 15,819 from one and 16237 from another; maybe it goes by how many times it's used and not the exp gained :-k ).

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

I can confirm that the morphic tool doesn't alwasy net 60k exp each tool. I took some granite mining and got about 16k exp per tool (I got 15,819 from one and 16237 from another; maybe it goes by how many times it's used and not exp :-k ).

 

I think that's about the same rate that I got from Granite mining. Do you know how many rocks you collected? If not, perhaps this will help:

 

 

 

I went to the Coal mines and got about 120 coal. The tool is at 19%. The mining level may have a bearing too; mine's 74 right now. Anyway, the differential now is that 19%/100% = x/120. In summation, the tool will last another 22 ores before it gives out completely; I'll test that later to determine it. If that theory holds up, it drained .81% of its power from one ore.

 

 

 

I'm thinking also that the experience from the object may have to do with how fast it degrades. .6% for a single steel bar seems like a lot, which means it goes down 3% per plate, and lasts only 16 plates. Each steel bar is between 17.5 (raw bar) and 55 (smelt+smith) experience. I'll need to know which to determine how fast it'll degrade on a Steel scale, and from that, it's simple to figure out how fast the proto-tool *may* degrade. I'm guessing that this confirms the experience->degradation theory.

 

 

 

[EDIT] Alright, so I found some more stuff out about these things. According to the post from the RSOF, 15-16-84-58083232, each tool has a *set* experience amount. In effect, it doesn't matter what you use or harvest, or what your level is, the tool lasts only until you hit that max experience cap.

 

 

 

Note that the values are from the normal experience values. [Thanks to Samoht Gnir, Djmoody and Sport 0 for this.]

 

 

 

Hammer 32,063

 

Hatchet 9,450 or 18,900

 

Pickaxe 7,140

 

Harpoon 13,750

 

Needle 21,500

 

Fletching is 46,875

 

 

 

I can practically vouch for the data here since it matches up with a test of mine -- Mining in particular. The proto-tool *will* last 142 coal.

[SirHartlar]

I'm hitting around 90k exp/hr at AZ so these are perfect for me, I think the items are a great implementation and offer a really nice way of varying your training. :thumbup:

[bedman]

I can confirm that the morphic tool doesn't alwasy net 60k exp each tool. I took some granite mining and got about 16k exp per tool (I got 15,819 from one and 16237 from another; maybe it goes by how many times it's used and not exp :-k ).

 

I think that's about the same rate that I got from Granite mining. Do you know how many rocks you collected? If not, perhaps this will help:

 

 

 

I went to the Coal mines and got about 120 coal. The tool is at 19%. The mining level may have a bearing too; mine's 74 right now. Anyway, the differential now is that 19%/100% = x/120. In summation, the tool will last another 22 ores before it gives out completely; I'll test that later to determine it. If that theory holds up, it drained .81% of its power from one ore.

 

 

 

I'm thinking also that the experience from the object may have to do with how fast it degrades. .6% for a single steel bar seems like a lot, which means it goes down 3% per plate, and lasts only 16 plates. Each steel bar is between 17.5 (raw bar) and 55 (smelt+smith) experience. I'll need to know which to determine how fast it'll degrade on a Steel scale, and from that, it's simple to figure out how fast the proto-tool *may* degrade. I'm guessing that this confirms the experience->degradation theory.

 

 

 

[EDIT] Alright, so I found some more stuff out about these things. According to the post from the RSOF, 15-16-84-58083232, each tool has a *set* experience amount. In effect, it doesn't matter what you use or harvest, or what your level is, the tool lasts only until you hit that max experience cap.

 

 

 

Note that the values are from the normal experience values. [Thanks to Samoht Gnir, Djmoody and Sport 0 for this.]

 

 

 

Hammer 32,063

 

Hatchet 9,450 or 18,900

 

Pickaxe 7,140

 

Harpoon 13,750

 

Needle 21,500

 

Fletching is 46,875

 

 

 

I can practically vouch for the data here since it matches up with a test of mine -- Mining in particular. The proto-tool *will* last 142 coal.

 

 

 

A hammer lasted me more than 500 addy bars, which is over 60k xp, not 32k.

[999134]

i used 1 hammer and a bit of the next one for 74-75 construction ( around 80k i think) awesome tools - 2% per larder

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

A hammer lasted me more than 500 addy bars, which is over 60k xp, not 32k.

 

 

 

Didn't I say that those numbers were the normal experience and not the double experience?

[Wot]

Only 35k an hour?

 

That sounds a little low, my only good levels are mining (89) and fletching (85)

 

From makeing lvl 5 arrows i can get 100k+ points/game :shock: 8-)

[Lets_3ekout]

Only 35k an hour?

 

That sounds a little low, my only good levels are mining (89) and fletching (85)

 

From makeing lvl 5 arrows i can get 100k+ points/game :shock: 8-)

 

With the points nerf at higher points value (difference between 80k and 100k is almost non-existant, for example, while 1k-10k makes for your bulk of points) people find it preferable to get your points up to the point where your point reward starts getting nerfed alot, and then just enjoy the game for a change.

[999134]

um i just used helm for ranging at yaks

 

quick exp but only lasted 35k exp, less than 30mins

[Bouwzie]

513 adamantite bars = one hammer. Going to test using the hammer with construction too today.

[Lep]

Those values are wrong. I am making Teak Wardrobes for training Construction which normally give 500 XP but give 1000 with Clay Hammer. (They should give 1000 but Tip.it is wrong, it is more than 500 XP because I get slightly over 1000 XP with Clay Hammer) But anyhoo, every hammer I have used lasted roughly 50k. I have gained 2.2M XP using the hammers.

[nyyankees588]

Does anyone know the values for pieces of armour aka how much exp they last. I have quite a few ideas where these could be really good for range exp (especially anywhere with a cannon).

[superj75]

When using the SC platebody and legs they went from 100% to 50% ea. when I was fightin Green Dragons, this took place over the course of around 20 minutes. I have no clue how much xp i gained from them considering i was doing slayer, but i could bet you it wasnt what it should have been.