In my humble opinion, Jagex has ruined the Runescape economy. I mean, look at the Grand Exchange. In the days pre-GE, you had to advertise, find a buyer, and haggle. You had to build a system of steady buyers. Now, it's like we're robots. Sell to the GE, buy from the GE, no more player interaction. It's impossible to start a real company. Back pre-GE, when I would sell Rune Essence, i would start a company here on the forums, take out contracts and sell Essence to real people. Now, well it has increased my profits, it is no fun. The other Jagex "Improvement" I hate is the charity limit. I don't really do quests, keeping my limit very low. Before the limit, you could set up a mining/running/smelting system with 5-8 people, and make a good profit. I really think they should take the limit away. II remember on one of my earlier accounts in the days pre-limit, I was like level 13, and some guy was quitting and gave me 100k and a host of good stuff just randomly. Now charity is neigh impossible. Do you think that Jagex's "Improvements" are a step forward or back for the RS economy?

A step forward. I hated wasting seven hours in World 2 (4 to get in, 3 to conduct actual business) under that old scheme. Now I can just drop my items off, and get them later.

 

 

 

As for the human interaction, there's still plenty of that around. You just have to look for it.

Try buying a rare through the GE... I've never had much success with it. So there is still interaction.

 

Also, most of those measures were to cut down on rule-breaking. I think Jagex did a pretty good job with that.

 

Oh, and as far as this "economy" is concerned, I have no idea what you're referencing. Before the GE it was near impossible to gain a macro prospective of the "economy"... well, whatever.

I didn't find out about trade limit when i started rune scape again and i told my friend to mine lots of iron ore and give it to me so i could buy a santa hat and we could split the profits when it goes up.

 

 

 

Trade limits Shattered =(.

 

 

 

Unfortunately there isn't much you can do. Jagex want to stop real world trading and thats that. Could always clan merchant tho.

Merchanting is still possible, in a sense. It would be better to call it "investing". You simply purchase a rare item, which is your investment. Wait for it to go up, if it goes up, you make a profit on your investment, if it goes down, you lose on your investment. Though the principal of buying low and selling high still goes, no longer do you set the price you buy and sell, you instead must wait for Jagex to rise the price higher or lower to suit your needs.

you and i are on the same page. I understand why Jagex made the changes. But as a classic and rs2 player for 5 years i do miss all the old companies you could set up, haggling and charity. admittedly it has taken some fun from the game.

Thank you Cuppy. See that's what I am, a 'classic Rs2' player. I much preferred the days when Jagex added new content (quests, skills, etc.) instead of making drastic changes to the way you play the game. In response to the people who think the changes are a step forward, I believe that they are, if you are a solo player. If you go out and do quests, fight monsters, and train skills (all by yourself), then I do think the GE would be useful to earn money. In fact, even for me, the GE makes it much easier to sell things. But that just makes the game even more robotic and repetitive! All I have to do to make money now is mine Rune Essence and take it to the GE. This is more boring than you can imagine. The human element is gone! Also, I don't believe in training combat skills. Why would I care if I am a 'noob' or if I can kill 'level 98 dragon' or whatever. All I want to do is start a corporation and make some serious cash. I can buy fancy clothes, and stuff that I think I need. But a 'Dragon Hally'?!? Who gives a flying @#%&! All I am saying is that for a player who doesn't care about quests, or dragons, or being noobish, Jagex has made it very hard for me to enjoy the game. And I know RS wasn't made for people like me. But back during Rs2 Classic, people like me could still enjoy the game! Not any more.

 

 

 

Also, if anyone could tell me ONE GOOD REASON for the trade limit, it would be greatly appreciated.

[hide=Good reasons for the trade limit]

• Makes scamming almost impossible and makes it so you can't lose too much from it.
   
  Prevents the transfer of items between people's accounts.
   
  Makes begging is hardly worth it.
   
  Kills RTW (part of it at least) and with it must autoers.
   
  Make it so you actually have to EARN the money you get instead of someone giving things to you.

[/hide]

 

 

 

Now the discussion I think it's a step forwards, while I do remember the old companies I don't miss them, I don't miss haggling, I don't miss getting sometimes horrible deals for some items because it was the only way to get them, I don't miss standing in Falador world 1 screaming :"Selling 1k iron ore 80k" (not sure if that's the price it sold for at the time but it's around there). All of this is made unnecessary because of the changes that Jagex has done to the game.

 

 

 

As to the lost of the "human element" it is still there, just no longer in the same way it was. If the "human element" as you call it is what drew you to this game and is the thing that you like about it, then adapt your gameplay to form part of it. Raise your combat and go to GWD, or the Corporeal Beast or whatever.

 

 

 

To me the game has always been about 3 different aspects: the combat, the skilling and the economy. If you found the combat part fun, then you are now better off, if you found the skilling part fun, the your life is now easier thanks to the Grand Exchange if you found the economy aspect fun (merchanting, investing) the adapt and learn to use the G.E. to your advantage.

 

 

 

If you really hate combat but wish to feel the "human element" then join a skilling clan, a merchanting clan, a star hunting clan, a minigame clan or form one. You just need to adapt to the changes to the game and use them to your advantage.

 

 

 

As to you preferring the time Jagex added new content over making changes, they still do add new things. This last year of 2008 is considered by many to be one of the best years when it comes to updates. This year we got summoning, the first grandmaster quest, various minigames, high definition, the partial return of player killing, various quests, the bank interface ect, ect. However the "drastic changes to the way you play the game" were necessary to the continuation of the game. If they had not fought as fiercely as they did against RTW the game would have been ruined. You ,a skiller, have to understand that. Your life is much easier now that there are practically no bots. Your life is much easier now that you can't get forced to selling your things at a low price. Easier now that I'm running out of things to say so I'm going to shut up.

 

 

 

PS:Cuppy didn't say that he was a "classic rs2 player". He said that he played both in classic and in Rs2. The term "classic Rs2 player' is a bit confusing.

In some way's the grand exchange seems almost "fake" and unnatural. I mean in our modern age we haven't got a system as fancy as the grand exchange. How can medieval idiots do it?

 

 

 

Its convenient, but i still miss receiving gifts from friends or even handing them out.

[hide=Good reasons for the trade limit]

• Makes scamming almost impossible and makes it so you can't lose too much from it.
   
  Prevents the transfer of items between people's accounts.
   
  Makes begging is hardly worth it.
   
  Kills RTW (part of it at least) and with it must autoers.
   
  Make it so you actually have to EARN the money you get instead of someone giving things to you.

[/hide]

 

 

 

Now the discussion I think it's a step forwards, while I do remember the old companies I don't miss them, I don't miss haggling, I don't miss getting sometimes horrible deals for some items because it was the only way to get them, I don't miss standing in Falador world 1 screaming :"Selling 1k iron ore 80k" (not sure if that's the price it sold for at the time but it's around there). All of this is made unnecessary because of the changes that Jagex has done to the game.

 

 

 

As to the lost of the "human element" it is still there, just no longer in the same way it was. If the "human element" as you call it is what drew you to this game and is the thing that you like about it, then adapt your gameplay to form part of it. Raise your combat and go to GWD, or the Corporeal Beast or whatever.

 

 

 

To me the game has always been about 3 different aspects: the combat, the skilling and the economy. If you found the combat part fun, then you are now better off, if you found the skilling part fun, the your life is now easier thanks to the Grand Exchange if you found the economy aspect fun (merchanting, investing) the adapt and learn to use the G.E. to your advantage.

 

 

 

If you really hate combat but wish to feel the "human element" then join a skilling clan, a merchanting clan, a star hunting clan, a minigame clan or form one. You just need to adapt to the changes to the game and use them to your advantage.

 

 

 

As to you preferring the time Jagex added new content over making changes, they still do add new things. This last year of 2008 is considered by many to be one of the best years when it comes to updates. This year we got summoning, the first grandmaster quest, various minigames, high definition, the partial return of player killing, various quests, the bank interface ect, ect. However the "drastic changes to the way you play the game" were necessary to the continuation of the game. If they had not fought as fiercely as they did against RTW the game would have been ruined. You ,a skiller, have to understand that. Your life is much easier now that there are practically no bots. Your life is much easier now that you can't get forced to selling your things at a low price. Easier now that I'm running out of things to say so I'm going to shut up.

 

 

 

PS:Cuppy didn't say that he was a "classic rs2 player". He said that he played both in classic and in Rs2. The term "classic Rs2 player' is a bit confusing.

 

 

 

 

 

lol who considers 2008 the best year for updates all they did was summoning and pvp worlds which were fails

In my humble opinion, Jagex has ruined the Runescape economy. I mean, look at the Grand Exchange. In the days pre-GE, you had to advertise, find a buyer, and haggle. You had to build a system of steady buyers.

 

 

 

For this reason, I hated trade skills such as Fletching and Herblore. I like how it saves time. You can put up offers and leave instead of standing in a bank and shouting the same thing all day.

 

 

 

Sell to the GE, buy from the GE, no more player interaction.

 

 

 

Like Phoenix said, you just have to look for it. If player interaction is what you're after then why not play some mini-games? Plus you can still make regular trades, but most people prefer GE.

 

 

 

The other Jagex "Improvement" I hate is the charity limit. I don't really do quests, keeping my limit very low. Before the limit, you could set up a mining/running/smelting system with 5-8 people, and make a good profit. I really think they should take the limit away. II remember on one of my earlier accounts in the days pre-limit, I was like level 13, and some guy was quitting and gave me 100k and a host of good stuff just randomly. Now charity is neigh impossible. Do you think that Jagex's "Improvements" are a step forward or back for the RS economy?

 

 

 

Yes, I did miss those days but Jagex was facing a lose-lose situation. They decided that making a trade limit was the lesser of two evils when compared to RWTers ruining RS.

ge is the best thing in runescape

 

i hated sitting around for hours wasting time trying to sell lame things

step forward...u can always look up what the price of an item is. You don't have to sit around trying to sell something thus it saves time i dont like how the price of lots of items went drastically up or drastically down but hey its all fair in the end. Runecrafting for example nats went waaaaaaaay down ess but you save a ton of time selling them..i remember when 10k nats took about 5-10 trades to sell :P or like 20-30 minutes if you didnt wanna go in world 2 to shout.

On the human interaction part, I am admittedly not much of a mini-gamer, as most of them require good skills, which I am not really interested in wasting hours getting. Many of you argue that the GE saves time. That it does. That, however is only good for people who want to do something other than make money with their time (like go kill 700 monsters for no apparent reason). But i'm not interested in menial tasks, so that's the problem.

 

 

 

You might tell me, "Just go to some other game with your hare-brained schemes you wack-jawed lunatic (had a little too much fun with the insults there)"

 

 

 

Well the problem is there are really no browser-based 3d MMORPGs out there. So i'd rather someone would fix this one.

 

 

 

It's probably never going to happen, and this whole thing is pointless (but of course it was anyway).

The interactions of a trade prior to the GE was as impersonal and robotic as human interaction can get. Buy, sell, get the heck out of there. Or waste countless hours trying to sell 100k worth of (insert items here). As a "corporate businessman" you should comprehend the concept of time equalling cash. You wanted to make serious cash? The GE was the way to do it. It is here for you, and you whine like a little girl. (no offense to little girls). The GE allows you to place your items for sale and it will sell and hold your income for you while you are off acquiring additional inventory to sell.

 

 

 

Jagex has also given you countless ways to interact with people and it is not their fault you fail at all of those. Last I checked while you are mining ess, you can use your fingers on that thing called a keyboard and say hi to people and thus causing the interactions with humans you have been so deprived of by the incorporation of the GE into this game.

 

 

 

that is all.. Have a swirvy day

Having never played RS Classic, I can't comment how good the "old days" were.......

 

 

 

The GE does make good use of time .... heres an example:

 

 

 

I fletched 180 odd Maple Short bows, ( at the time I couldn't high alch ) - I put them on the GE, it took 2 weeks to sell them. The point being is they did sell, without me having to invest any additional time standing arround trying to move them on. Would I have been able to sell them pre GE, without going from Bank to Bank advertising them for countless hours?

Jagex changed the economy. That's all. There's no such thing as ruining the economy. People still sell and trade, that means the economy is working.

it lived now the trade limit killed it ... and then took it to OT to eat glass... nuff said

The Grand Exchange is awesome, in my opinion, but really really poorly implemented. I said it somewhere else but now i've found a topic specifically for it, so I'll say it again.

 

 

 

They've screwed the economy so badly that, with the contribution to this effect from the mass amount of skillers, finished items like armour sell for less than the resources it took the make them. The game was designed around the idea that, as you progress and get your levels up higher, you are rewarded with the ability to craft, smith, feltch, etc. more valuable items. It costs more to make a mith platebody than the mith platebody is worth, so really you're better off selling the ores rather than smelting and smithing. It's a joke.

 

 

 

Can you imagine what would happen if, in the real world, peopel starting selling items for less than their expenses? Every store would go out of business within weeks because they'd show such huge profit loss. It's ridiculous.

 

 

 

As an example, think of it like this: The banks are now selling houses for less than the houses are worth. They lent money out to people to buy houses when they couldn't pay it back, and now they're stuck with these houses that they paid for through the bad mortgages and now they're selling them for whatever they can trying to get as much of their moeny back as possible. THey're sellign them for less than the mortgage.

 

 

 

And BOOM! Mortgage crisis, economic crisis, banks go bankrupt, government bailouts with $300 Billion of taxpayer money money, people get laid off work, big companies close down because everybody stops spending which eliminates more jobs, yata yata yata. You get the point. (by the way, that's one way to help the economy - don't slow down your purchases unless you're makign less money, but make sure you're buying domestic: if everybody stops spending jobs will be cut and it will actually make the economic condition worse [though unfortunately alot of people haven't realized that yet]).

 

 

 

IMO Jagex needs to jack up the price of all items to above what it costs to make them. The prices were always like that before - I remember when it cost like 32K for a rune scimmy at one point - and since everythings so easiyl accessible now the prices have gone down and everything is way out of wack.

 

 

 

As a side note I'd like to point out my support for the Grand Exchange - I've made roughly 500k in two days with no effort at all, and I'll have made over 1 mil in another day or two.

[hide=]

The Grand Exchange is awesome, in my opinion, but really really poorly implemented. I said it somewhere else but now i've found a topic specifically for it, so I'll say it again.

 

 

 

They've screwed the economy so badly that, with the contribution to this effect from the mass amount of skillers, finished items like armour sell for less than the resources it took the make them. The game was designed around the idea that, as you progress and get your levels up higher, you are rewarded with the ability to craft, smith, feltch, etc. more valuable items. It costs more to make a mith platebody than the mith platebody is worth, so really you're better off selling the ores rather than smelting and smithing. It's a joke.

 

 

 

Can you imagine what would happen if, in the real world, peopel starting selling items for less than their expenses? Every store would go out of business within weeks because they'd show such huge profit loss. It's ridiculous.

 

 

 

As an example, think of it like this: The banks are now selling houses for less than the houses are worth. They lent money out to people to buy houses when they couldn't pay it back, and now they're stuck with these houses that they paid for through the bad mortgages and now they're selling them for whatever they can trying to get as much of their moeny back as possible. THey're sellign them for less than the mortgage.

 

 

 

And BOOM! Mortgage crisis, economic crisis, banks go bankrupt, government bailouts with $300 Billion of taxpayer money money, people get laid off work, big companies close down because everybody stops spending which eliminates more jobs, yata yata yata. You get the point. (by the way, that's one way to help the economy - don't slow down your purchases unless you're makign less money, but make sure you're buying domestic: if everybody stops spending jobs will be cut and it will actually make the economic condition worse [though unfortunately alot of people haven't realized that yet]).

 

 

 

IMO Jagex needs to jack up the price of all items to above what it costs to make them. The prices were always like that before - I remember when it cost like 32K for a rune scimmy at one point - and since everythings so easiyl accessible now the prices have gone down and everything is way out of wack.

 

 

 

As a side note I'd like to point out my support for the Grand Exchange - I've made roughly 500k in two days with no effort at all, and I'll have made over 1 mil in another day or two.

[/hide]

 

 

 

its a given rule for mmo's that experience has value; therefore, items can have a tendency to be worth less then their components.

[hide=]

The Grand Exchange is awesome, in my opinion, but really really poorly implemented. I said it somewhere else but now i've found a topic specifically for it, so I'll say it again.

 

 

 

They've screwed the economy so badly that, with the contribution to this effect from the mass amount of skillers, finished items like armour sell for less than the resources it took the make them. The game was designed around the idea that, as you progress and get your levels up higher, you are rewarded with the ability to craft, smith, feltch, etc. more valuable items. It costs more to make a mith platebody than the mith platebody is worth, so really you're better off selling the ores rather than smelting and smithing. It's a joke.

 

 

 

Can you imagine what would happen if, in the real world, peopel starting selling items for less than their expenses? Every store would go out of business within weeks because they'd show such huge profit loss. It's ridiculous.

 

 

 

As an example, think of it like this: The banks are now selling houses for less than the houses are worth. They lent money out to people to buy houses when they couldn't pay it back, and now they're stuck with these houses that they paid for through the bad mortgages and now they're selling them for whatever they can trying to get as much of their moeny back as possible. THey're sellign them for less than the mortgage.

 

 

 

And BOOM! Mortgage crisis, economic crisis, banks go bankrupt, government bailouts with $300 Billion of taxpayer money money, people get laid off work, big companies close down because everybody stops spending which eliminates more jobs, yata yata yata. You get the point. (by the way, that's one way to help the economy - don't slow down your purchases unless you're makign less money, but make sure you're buying domestic: if everybody stops spending jobs will be cut and it will actually make the economic condition worse [though unfortunately alot of people haven't realized that yet]).

 

 

 

IMO Jagex needs to jack up the price of all items to above what it costs to make them. The prices were always like that before - I remember when it cost like 32K for a rune scimmy at one point - and since everythings so easiyl accessible now the prices have gone down and everything is way out of wack.

 

 

 

As a side note I'd like to point out my support for the Grand Exchange - I've made roughly 500k in two days with no effort at all, and I'll have made over 1 mil in another day or two.

[/hide]

 

 

 

its a given rule for mmo's that experience has value; therefore, items can have a tendency to be worth less then their components.

 

 

 

Doesn't sound wholly logical to me - what value has experience got if it can't be converted into cash? And I don't mean that in a greedy money hungry sort of way; if getting your skill up higher has such a limited number of benifits then what value does it hold? Being able to wear a special cape or the ability to say you have highest level just isn't enough motivation.

value is relative, as long as some people value experience an effect on the economy would show.

I'm disappointed (but not really surprised) that no one mentioned the competitiveness of Runescape itself. The MMORPG market has evolved greatly since the initial launch of Runescape Classic. Today, even the most poorly implemented free MMORPG has some form of centralized marketplace to facilitate exchanges. Anyone who has any decent amount of playing experience now comes to expect such features.

 

 

 

Est0rrath

 

 

 

In some way's the grand exchange seems almost "fake" and unnatural. I mean in our modern age we haven't got a system as fancy as the grand exchange. How can medieval idiots do it?

 

 

 

The Stock Exchange. The Shanghai Composite even has margin limits similar to the G.E. (as do several other I'm not familiar with, I'm sure).

Honestly Jagex has destroyed any player interaction with the economy. They have even made it next to nothing to obtain items worth actual money anymore with PvP. PvP is just two friends killing each other until they get a good item. It completely killed the idea of killing monsters and training skills to earn rare items.

[hide=]

The Grand Exchange is awesome, in my opinion, but really really poorly implemented. I said it somewhere else but now i've found a topic specifically for it, so I'll say it again.

 

 

 

They've screwed the economy so badly that, with the contribution to this effect from the mass amount of skillers, finished items like armour sell for less than the resources it took the make them. The game was designed around the idea that, as you progress and get your levels up higher, you are rewarded with the ability to craft, smith, feltch, etc. more valuable items. It costs more to make a mith platebody than the mith platebody is worth, so really you're better off selling the ores rather than smelting and smithing. It's a joke.

 

 

 

Can you imagine what would happen if, in the real world, peopel starting selling items for less than their expenses? Every store would go out of business within weeks because they'd show such huge profit loss. It's ridiculous.

 

 

 

As an example, think of it like this: The banks are now selling houses for less than the houses are worth. They lent money out to people to buy houses when they couldn't pay it back, and now they're stuck with these houses that they paid for through the bad mortgages and now they're selling them for whatever they can trying to get as much of their moeny back as possible. THey're sellign them for less than the mortgage.

 

 

 

And BOOM! Mortgage crisis, economic crisis, banks go bankrupt, government bailouts with $300 Billion of taxpayer money money, people get laid off work, big companies close down because everybody stops spending which eliminates more jobs, yata yata yata. You get the point. (by the way, that's one way to help the economy - don't slow down your purchases unless you're makign less money, but make sure you're buying domestic: if everybody stops spending jobs will be cut and it will actually make the economic condition worse [though unfortunately alot of people haven't realized that yet]).

 

 

 

IMO Jagex needs to jack up the price of all items to above what it costs to make them. The prices were always like that before - I remember when it cost like 32K for a rune scimmy at one point - and since everythings so easiyl accessible now the prices have gone down and everything is way out of wack.

 

 

 

As a side note I'd like to point out my support for the Grand Exchange - I've made roughly 500k in two days with no effort at all, and I'll have made over 1 mil in another day or two.

[/hide]

 

 

 

its a given rule for mmo's that experience has value; therefore, items can have a tendency to be worth less then their components.

 

 

 

Doesn't sound wholly logical to me - what value has experience got if it can't be converted into cash? And I don't mean that in a greedy money hungry sort of way; if getting your skill up higher has such a limited number of benifits then what value does it hold? Being able to wear a special cape or the ability to say you have highest level just isn't enough motivation.

 

 

 

The value of experience can be compared to the value of knowledge in real life. How much one pays for further education and their degrees/doctorates can be seen as skill capes. In skilling, there are points in which you can obtain or create more valuable resources. Such as a degree enabling a person to obtain better riches through working.