Help put an end to junk trading

[slay_revenge]

ok guys, i was flipping through the forum, and i saw this thread.

 

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=143&t=772792&p=6393863#p6393863

 

 

 

And as far as i can tell, its the worst thing i have ever heard.

 

 

 

here is the premis.

 

 

 

"Lets get rid of the trading system and just use the GE."

 

 

 

the OP is crying because he decided to sell his party hat for 108Mil junk instead of cash. according to him, he HAD to sell it. Can we please convince him otherwise, or at least make him stop whining? Hes saying, "No trading what so ever. I saw a guy buy 65 d chains on the ge, and sell them again for 18mil profit on the GE. he shouldnt be allowed to do this because i didnt think of it first. Lets limit the number of expensive items you can buy to 1 a day." If you agree with this, quit runescape and go suck your thumb somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

Lulz what a........... noob! :ohnoes:

 

 

 

 

 

taking away trading is a bad idea, it limits convince ( buying a dds at bh) and player to player interaction. and its his fault he had to sell for all of the junk, he should of either never bought it or keep it , wait for any rebound, or just leave it in ge and overa long period of time it will sell. but the other guy who bought 65 d chain, why shouldn't he be able to do it? if he had the money good for him, are you just jealous that you don't or you haven't?

 

 

 

" he shouldnt be allowed to do this because i didnt think of it first."

 

 

 

PereGrin that is the dumbest statement i've ever heard, worst than Magzar's first page. i can't believe people like you are allowed to use these forums ,seeing you don't add anything logical for discussion value.

 

 

 

 

 

all i want for Christmas is this topic to be locked :D

 

 

 

magzar afraid of replying on my post on page 16, stating why this topic is just for attention and nothing more?

[Will H]

Nice idea, but it will never happen. As long as the GE's faulty prices remains, junk trade will stay. The only way for Jagex to fix this is to pay A LOT more attention to the market and actually update prices accordingly.

 

The first part is true, the second part is not. Ideally, Jagex shouldn't need to pay attention to the market, it is not their job to push around the prices how they wants. They need to set up a program which tracks the street prices more accurately and faster, the current one is not good enough. As long as the two are within the GE % limit, it will be fine.

[magzar]

ok guys, i was flipping through the forum, and i saw this thread.

 

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=143&t=772792&p=6393863#p6393863

 

 

 

And as far as i can tell, its the worst thing i have ever heard.

 

 

 

here is the premis.

 

 

 

"Lets get rid of the trading system and just use the GE."

 

 

 

the OP is crying because he decided to sell his party hat for 108Mil junk instead of cash. according to him, he HAD to sell it. Can we please convince him otherwise, or at least make him stop whining? Hes saying, "No trading what so ever. I saw a guy buy 65 d chains on the ge, and sell them again for 18mil profit on the GE. he shouldnt be allowed to do this because i didnt think of it first. Lets limit the number of expensive items you can buy to 1 a day." If you agree with this, quit runescape and go suck your thumb somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

Lulz what a........... noob! :ohnoes:

 

 

 

 

 

taking away trading is a bad idea, it limits convince ( buying a dds at bh) and player to player interaction. and its his fault he had to sell for all of the junk, he should of either never bought it or keep it , wait for any rebound, or just leave it in ge and overa long period of time it will sell. but the other guy who bought 65 d chain, why shouldn't he be able to do it? if he had the money good for him, are you just jealous that you don't or you haven't?

 

 

 

" he shouldnt be allowed to do this because i didnt think of it first."

 

 

 

PereGrin that is the dumbest statement i've ever heard, worst than Magzar's first page. i can't believe people like you are allowed to use these forums ,seeing you don't add anything logical for discussion value.

 

 

 

 

 

all i want for Christmas is this topic to be locked :D

 

 

 

magzar afraid of replying on my post on page 16, stating why this topic is just for attention and nothing more?

 

 

 

 

 

OK a few points that need to be made.

 

 

 

1. Learn to use reading comprehension skills. Peregrine wasn't suggesting that, he was talking about someone else who suggested it, and saying how absolutely stupid the suggestion was. The thread he linked to was posted by 123yourgone. So I can't believe people like you are allowed to use these forums, considering you have no reading comprehension skills.

 

2. I did not create this thread because I'm having a hard time buying or selling a rare. I did not create this thread to create controversy or a hot topic. I did not create this thread for any other reason than to share knowledge and opinions on what I believe to be a horribly flawed system. I did this in the hopes that awareness would lead to ending the practice and promoting healthier trading practices.

 

3. I didn't respond to your ridiculous post because it had no discussion value. We weren't talking about buying bolts and poisoning them, which was very very profitable at the time, or anything close to that. Your post was useless fodder, and as such I ignored it. Stop whining for my attention and get a life.

[yuriqiu]

Nice idea, but it will never happen. As long as the GE's faulty prices remains, junk trade will stay. The only way for Jagex to fix this is to pay A LOT more attention to the market and actually update prices accordingly.

 

The first part is true, the second part is not. Ideally, Jagex shouldn't need to pay attention to the market, it is not their job to push around the prices how they wants. They need to set up a program which tracks the street prices more accurately and faster, the current one is not good enough. As long as the two are within the GE % limit, it will be fine.

 

The part that Jagex provide in this RS economy is that they play the role of the government. In that role, they create taxes (N/A to RS) and Price Controls (Grand Exchange/Trade Limit). Don't get me wrong, the GE made my life a lot easier, I'm sure people will all agree to that. However, for the special items such as rares/discontinued/3rd age, the price control has to be either extremely well monitored, or not controlled at all. In real life, price controls are used for political advantage (rent control). In RS, price control is used to prevent RWT. Theses price controls all will cause excess demand/supply causing erratic price changes and a second form of market being formed (black market, junk trade, bribe, etc etc). With a Price ceiling predicted at the right place, Jagex will require a hiring of a brand new department to not only conduct surveys to predict a supply and demand curve, but also predicting where the price will land. It just comes down to if Jagex wants to spend the money and keep the RS market up or just leave it as it is and hope for time to erase their mistakes.

[magzar]

Nice idea, but it will never happen. As long as the GE's faulty prices remains, junk trade will stay. The only way for Jagex to fix this is to pay A LOT more attention to the market and actually update prices accordingly.

 

The first part is true, the second part is not. Ideally, Jagex shouldn't need to pay attention to the market, it is not their job to push around the prices how they wants. They need to set up a program which tracks the street prices more accurately and faster, the current one is not good enough. As long as the two are within the GE % limit, it will be fine.

 

The part that Jagex provide in this RS economy is that they play the role of the government. In that role, they create taxes (N/A to RS) and Price Controls (Grand Exchange/Trade Limit). Don't get me wrong, the GE made my life a lot easier, I'm sure people will all agree to that. However, for the special items such as rares/discontinued/3rd age, the price control has to be either extremely well monitored, or not controlled at all. In real life, price controls are used for political advantage (rent control). In RS, price control is used to prevent RWT. Theses price controls all will cause excess demand/supply causing erratic price changes and a second form of market being formed (black market, junk trade, bribe, etc etc). With a Price ceiling predicted at the right place, Jagex will require a hiring of a brand new department to not only conduct surveys to predict a supply and demand curve, but also predicting where the price will land. It just comes down to if Jagex wants to spend the money and keep the RS market up or just leave it as it is and hope for time to erase their mistakes.

 

 

 

That's what the GE system was designed to do. Jagex didn't anticipate players refusing to use it and stalling out prices. Jagex did their job by installing a system that would work if it were used. The have no responsibility to hold our hands because we don't use the system they gave us to keep prices where they should be. We were supposed to do it ourselves, just like we always have.(just by different systems)

[yuriqiu]

Nice idea, but it will never happen. As long as the GE's faulty prices remains, junk trade will stay. The only way for Jagex to fix this is to pay A LOT more attention to the market and actually update prices accordingly.

 

The first part is true, the second part is not. Ideally, Jagex shouldn't need to pay attention to the market, it is not their job to push around the prices how they wants. They need to set up a program which tracks the street prices more accurately and faster, the current one is not good enough. As long as the two are within the GE % limit, it will be fine.

 

The part that Jagex provide in this RS economy is that they play the role of the government. In that role, they create taxes (N/A to RS) and Price Controls (Grand Exchange/Trade Limit). Don't get me wrong, the GE made my life a lot easier, I'm sure people will all agree to that. However, for the special items such as rares/discontinued/3rd age, the price control has to be either extremely well monitored, or not controlled at all. In real life, price controls are used for political advantage (rent control). In RS, price control is used to prevent RWT. Theses price controls all will cause excess demand/supply causing erratic price changes and a second form of market being formed (black market, junk trade, bribe, etc etc). With a Price ceiling predicted at the right place, Jagex will require a hiring of a brand new department to not only conduct surveys to predict a supply and demand curve, but also predicting where the price will land. It just comes down to if Jagex wants to spend the money and keep the RS market up or just leave it as it is and hope for time to erase their mistakes.

 

 

 

That's what the GE system was designed to do. Jagex didn't anticipate players refusing to use it and stalling out prices. Jagex did their job by installing a system that would work if it were used. The have no responsibility to hold our hands because we don't use the system they gave us to keep prices where they should be. We were supposed to do it ourselves, just like we always have.(just by different systems)

 

The problem with the GE is that it turned RS from a free trade economy into an Oligopoly. If say Jagex decide one day to decrease an item such as the ags to a price of 100k, you would not sell it on the GE, you would try get the junk to sell it or hold it because it will no longer be worth it to sell. That is what has happend to items such as 3rd age that has huge demand yet a lower price than what people are willing to sell them at.

[holst15]

People worry too much about junk trading, and also underestimate its usefulness in certain cases. Say you've fletched your way to 99 on maple longs and you got a hundred thousand of them in the bank. Worth nothing to you. But lets say you get dclaws as a drop, suddenly you can get some of your money back on those bows. Now of course, buying 100k maple liongs on the GE at market price and using them for junk trading is stupid, but in the case where you've gotten junk through training and gaining xp, using it to get some money back is great- I did it for my dagon-hai and black elite.

 

 

 

Furthermore, certain things like book of magic, can be bought at min instantly on ge. So people that say "oh if you sell dclaws for 30 mil + 60 mil junk you only make 30 mil", thats not true if you know how to work the system.

 

 

 

And when the system's screwed up, I don't give a damn about exploiting it to the fullest extent for my own personal benefit. I have no vindictive motives against other players to try to prevent them from buying something, but hey, Jagex has created this, its how markets work. Price controls/floors always do this, they just don't remember Econ 101...

[Omar]

The first person to get the item doesn't decide. The buyer willing to spend the most does.

 

Junk trading isn't a problem, new items being set at restupidiculame prices is. :roll:

[Lep]

In my opinion, all of the GE Prices are completely correct, although Blue Phat should be lowered a bit. The way I see it is that the real problem is that there are a small handfull of players out there with amazingly high amounts of cash who real world traded, faked stakes and sold brand new items ridiculously high, such as when Whips first came out. There's got to be about what, 100 or less extremely rich people out there with 400m+? Most of this money wasn't even gained fairly, but few were. So the way I see it, Runescape has roughly 100 rich idiots that constantly sell and resell items amongst each other over and over and not selling items in the GE because they are too stuck up to sell their items for a price which their group of 100 people doesn't think is the right price, even though most of the money they have wasn't gained fairly in the first place.

 

 

 

The GE price of Spirit Shields for example, that price is perfect. However, the 100 idiots all agree that 130M is way too cheap. :roll: So they decide to price it at 500M, which is the price that only the 100 idiots can buy at.

 

 

 

Many people out there can't even afford a Whip, and the average rich player has only enough to buy a Godsword and some good armor. The actual rich people, the 100 idiots who gained their money unfairly, need to stop being stuck up and sell in the GE. Seriously, 130M or whatever is a perfectly reasonable price for a stupid shield which has less stats than a DFS but has some stupid special with it. The AGS is only about 60M because of it's special... are you seriously telling me that because a shield can block 25% damage, it adds 500M to it's value? No, it doesn't, but the 100 idiots seem to think so. Yes, 3rd Age is very rare, but it's stats are also worse than Barrows which should be kept into factor even though this is Runescape and things are different here. A full set of 3rd Age Melee that is worse than Torags shouldn't cost almost 1 Billion, but the 100 idiots think it is. However, even amongst those 100 idiots, maybe only 50 of those idiots can even afford something that high.

 

 

 

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

In my opinion, all of the GE Prices are completely correct, although Blue Phat should be lowered a bit. The way I see it is that the real problem is that there are a small handfull of players out there with amazingly high amounts of cash who real world traded, faked stakes and sold brand new items ridiculously high, such as when Whips first came out. There's got to be about what, 100 or less extremely rich people out there with 400m+? Most of this money wasn't even gained fairly, but few were. So the way I see it, Runescape has roughly 100 rich idiots that constantly sell and resell items amongst each other over and over and not selling items in the GE because they are too stuck up to sell their items for a price which their group of 100 people doesn't think is the right price, even though most of the money they have wasn't gained fairly in the first place.

 

 

 

The GE price of Spirit Shields for example, that price is perfect. However, the 100 idiots all agree that 130M is way too cheap. :roll: So they decide to price it at 500M, which is the price that only the 100 idiots can buy at.

 

 

 

Many people out there can't even afford a Whip, and the average rich player has only enough to buy a Godsword and some good armor. The actual rich people, the 100 idiots who gained their money unfairly, need to stop being stuck up and sell in the GE. Seriously, 130M or whatever is a perfectly reasonable price for a stupid shield which has less stats than a DFS but has some stupid special with it. The AGS is only about 60M because of it's special... are you seriously telling me that because a shield can block 25% damage, it adds 500M to it's value? No, it doesn't, but the 100 idiots seem to think so. Yes, 3rd Age is very rare, but it's stats are also worse than Barrows which should be kept into factor even though this is Runescape and things are different here. A full set of 3rd Age Melee that is worse than Torags shouldn't cost almost 1 Billion, but the 100 idiots think it is. However, even amongst those 100 idiots, maybe only 50 of those idiots can even afford something that high.

 

 

 

QFT. I feel that everything you've said here reflects a lot about the market.

 

 

 

As it turns out, the only items that appear to be "stuck" or are "untraded" on the GE are the items on both sides of the bell curve, namely low-use items and expensive items. Everything else is just fine.

[Sam]

I support this 100%, this true value determination gets on my nerves :wall:

[jenova1692]

Most of you people don't seem to understand economics. Prices are not only set by the seller. Yes they have the final say in how much they sell it for, but if no one is willing to pay that much then they will never sell it. For example, Lep claims that 500m is too much for a Spirit Shield. If it truly was, then no one would buy it and the price would end up dropping. Also, you blame the high prices on 100 "rich idiots". So are you saying that only those 100 people are able to obtain Spirit Shields? Lep, your rant-like post only made you look like an ignorant fool. Stop complaining because you can't afford something. I can't even believe that this stupid thread is still being used. The only people who seem to be in support of this idea are the whiners and the commies who want a Jagex controlled economy.

[holst15]

Most of you people don't seem to understand economics. Prices are not only set by the seller. Yes they have the final say in how much they sell it for, but if no one is willing to pay that much then they will never sell it. For example, Lep claims that 500m is too much for a Spirit Shield. If it truly was, then no one would buy it and the price would end up dropping. Also, you blame the high prices on 100 "rich idiots". So are you saying that only those 100 people are able to obtain Spirit Shields? Lep, your rant-like post only made you look like an ignorant fool. Stop complaining because you can't afford something. I can't even believe that this stupid thread is still being used. The only people who seem to be in support of this idea are the whiners and the commies who want a Jagex controlled economy.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you!!! :thumbsup:

[Madmanpur3]

In my opinion, all of the GE Prices are completely correct, although Blue Phat should be lowered a bit. The way I see it is that the real problem is that there are a small handfull of players out there with amazingly high amounts of cash who real world traded, faked stakes and sold brand new items ridiculously high, such as when Whips first came out. There's got to be about what, 100 or less extremely rich people out there with 400m+? Most of this money wasn't even gained fairly, but few were. So the way I see it, Runescape has roughly 100 rich idiots that constantly sell and resell items amongst each other over and over and not selling items in the GE because they are too stuck up to sell their items for a price which their group of 100 people doesn't think is the right price, even though most of the money they have wasn't gained fairly in the first place.

 

 

 

The GE price of Spirit Shields for example, that price is perfect. However, the 100 idiots all agree that 130M is way too cheap. :roll: So they decide to price it at 500M, which is the price that only the 100 idiots can buy at.

 

 

 

Many people out there can't even afford a Whip, and the average rich player has only enough to buy a Godsword and some good armor. The actual rich people, the 100 idiots who gained their money unfairly, need to stop being stuck up and sell in the GE. Seriously, 130M or whatever is a perfectly reasonable price for a stupid shield which has less stats than a DFS but has some stupid special with it. The AGS is only about 60M because of it's special... are you seriously telling me that because a shield can block 25% damage, it adds 500M to it's value? No, it doesn't, but the 100 idiots seem to think so. Yes, 3rd Age is very rare, but it's stats are also worse than Barrows which should be kept into factor even though this is Runescape and things are different here. A full set of 3rd Age Melee that is worse than Torags shouldn't cost almost 1 Billion, but the 100 idiots think it is. However, even amongst those 100 idiots, maybe only 50 of those idiots can even afford something that high.

 

This is honestly one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. Less than 100 "idiots" with 400m+? There's probably 100 tif users alone with more than 400m, and there's thousands if not 10s of thousands of players with 400m+. On top of that, you think that everyone who has money made it unfairly - which tells me that either you're jealous, or simply aren't very well educated on how money is made.

 

 

 

*Side note* - The real world traders on the purchasing end are very poor in game, and the real world traders on the selling end are extremely rich in game and they make that money in-game, fairly. So using real world traders as an example was poor in itself.

 

 

 

Anywho, you think that prices are correct as they are? The reason Divine/Elysian spirit shields are stuck in the GE is not because there's "100 idiots" stock piling them...it's because they are WORTH more than their GE price, and people are WILLING to pay as much as 300m+ for them...just like how people are willing to sell their partyhats for 50m but the GE won't let them.

 

 

 

As for the the usefullness of those shields, if you feel the DFS is better, then you go right ahead and be happy that it's hundreds of millions cheaper - but that's an opinion, not a fact. The stronger opinion however, is that the Divine shield is the best shield for the money bosses (gwd/kq) and the Eylysian shield is better for killing higher level non-boss npcs, and rune defender is better for low-medium level npcs. Now don't get me wrong...for it's price, the DFS probably is the best shield, but for those who have money and want the best of the best equipment, those 2 shields are better than DFS. Also, DFS is the best shield against dragons/wyverns still obviously.

 

 

 

Individuals can't change prices, small groups can't change prices...supply and demand is what runs the economy (even in rs) and as of right now, the GE prices are completely failing to reflect the supply and demand of a lot of items properly.

 

 

 

P.S. - was writing this before jenova posted...it's nice to see some people have a basic understanding for how things work.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Most of you people don't seem to understand economics. Prices are not only set by the seller. Yes they have the final say in how much they sell it for, but if no one is willing to pay that much then they will never sell it. For example, Lep claims that 500m is too much for a Spirit Shield. If it truly was, then no one would buy it and the price would end up dropping. Also, you blame the high prices on 100 "rich idiots". So are you saying that only those 100 people are able to obtain Spirit Shields? Lep, your rant-like post only made you look like an ignorant fool. Stop complaining because you can't afford something. I can't even believe that this stupid thread is still being used. The only people who seem to be in support of this idea are the whiners and the commies who want a Jagex controlled economy.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you!!! :thumbsup:

 

The word of the day is "monopoly". Consider that getting one of those Shields is beyond a royal pain, and consider that not many people actually want one of them (think "Why the hell would I pay this much for an item that I could lose?").

 

 

 

[And no, I will not take an economics class unless you pay for the tuition. I'm not spending my own tuition to understand such a mundane subject for a game.]

 

 

 

@Jenova: I'm no whiner, and I can afford pretty much anything that I want. I have a decent bank, enough cash to satisfy, and I don't want a Jagex-controlled economy. I'd sure love an economy which isn't ruled by merchants, though, which happens to be the 100 players that Lep mentioned.

[jenova1692]

to understand such a mundane subject

 

For such a mundane subject you don't know very much about it. What does that make you?

 

 

 

Oh and who ever said anything about taking an economics class? I haven't taken one, I'm still in high school.

 

 

 

I'd sure love an economy which isn't ruled by merchants

 

The merchants don't rule the economy, the consumers do. The merchants only raise their prices when the consumers are willing to pay more for an item. Again, its about supply and demand. You clearly don't understand anything about economics.

[magzar]

to understand such a mundane subject

 

For such a mundane subject you don't know very much about it. What does that make you?

 

 

 

Oh and who ever said anything about taking an economics class? I haven't taken one, I'm still in high school.

 

 

 

I'd sure love an economy which isn't ruled by merchants

 

The merchants don't rule the economy, the consumers do. The merchants only raise their prices when the consumers are willing to pay more for an item. Again, its about supply and demand. You clearly don't understand anything about economics.

 

 

 

 

 

the consumers you mention, that are willing to pay such outrageous prices, are other merchants. The general population neither can, nor is willing to pay these prices, therefore merchants trade among themselves. This is the point Lep was making, and it is a good one. Prices aren't set by the public, they're set by merchants. If you honestly have 400m to buy a spirit shield, then you've been doing something horribly wrong.

[jenova1692]

the consumers you mention, that are willing to pay such outrageous prices, are other merchants. The general population neither can, nor is willing to pay these prices, therefore merchants trade among themselves.

 

 

 

/facepalm

 

 

 

 

 

...do you realize how stupid that sounds? You're saying the merchants basically just buy and sell the shields back to each other. What would be the point in that? Maybe a few could gain money from the others, but the majority of them would end up going bankrupt. That or the price would always remain the same and no one would gain anything. Why am I bothering to argue with you? You all are obviously just idiots who will never understand how the economy really works.

[walka92]

the consumers you mention, that are willing to pay such outrageous prices, are other merchants. The general population neither can, nor is willing to pay these prices, therefore merchants trade among themselves.

 

 

 

/facepalm

 

 

 

 

 

...do you realize how stupid that sounds? You're saying the merchants basically just buy and sell the shields back to each other. What would be the point in that? Maybe a few could gain money from the others, but the majority of them would end up going bankrupt. That or the price would always remain the same and no one would gain anything. Why am I bothering to argue with you? You all are obviously just idiots who will never understand how the economy really works.

 

your arguing because you dont want to give up and appear weak, despite the fact that they are like brick walls. they wont listen and they wont move unless hit with a hammer. just give up. they'll never understand so why waste your time

[Obtaurian]

 

 

 

the consumers you mention, that are willing to pay such outrageous prices, are other merchants. The general population neither can, nor is willing to pay these prices, therefore merchants trade among themselves. This is the point Lep was making, and it is a good one. Prices aren't set by the public, they're set by merchants. If you honestly have 400m to buy a spirit shield, then you've been doing something horribly wrong.

 

 

 

On the contrary, the Elysian and Divine Spirit Shields are worth every penny of their street price. They are really that good. If I were to magically obtain one from the GE, I would count my blessings and praise Allah.

 

 

 

Merchants are not buying the best combat equipment in the game from other merchants. Players like me, who love combat, are buying them.

 

 

 

As Walka said, I wont argue with anyone in this thread who feels compelled to believe that merchants are to blame for junk trading. When people are buying ESS's in the street for 400m+, but the GE price is 1/4 of that, there's obviously a problem.

[bedman]

In my opinion, all of the GE Prices are completely correct, although Blue Phat should be lowered a bit. The way I see it is that the real problem is that there are a small handfull of players out there with amazingly high amounts of cash who real world traded, faked stakes and sold brand new items ridiculously high, such as when Whips first came out. There's got to be about what, 100 or less extremely rich people out there with 400m+? Most of this money wasn't even gained fairly, but few were. So the way I see it, Runescape has roughly 100 rich idiots that constantly sell and resell items amongst each other over and over and not selling items in the GE because they are too stuck up to sell their items for a price which their group of 100 people doesn't think is the right price, even though most of the money they have wasn't gained fairly in the first place.

 

 

 

The GE price of Spirit Shields for example, that price is perfect. However, the 100 idiots all agree that 130M is way too cheap. :roll: So they decide to price it at 500M, which is the price that only the 100 idiots can buy at.

 

 

 

Many people out there can't even afford a Whip, and the average rich player has only enough to buy a Godsword and some good armor. The actual rich people, the 100 idiots who gained their money unfairly, need to stop being stuck up and sell in the GE. Seriously, 130M or whatever is a perfectly reasonable price for a stupid shield which has less stats than a DFS but has some stupid special with it. The AGS is only about 60M because of it's special... are you seriously telling me that because a shield can block 25% damage, it adds 500M to it's value? No, it doesn't, but the 100 idiots seem to think so. Yes, 3rd Age is very rare, but it's stats are also worse than Barrows which should be kept into factor even though this is Runescape and things are different here. A full set of 3rd Age Melee that is worse than Torags shouldn't cost almost 1 Billion, but the 100 idiots think it is. However, even amongst those 100 idiots, maybe only 50 of those idiots can even afford something that high.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I lost all my respect for you (not that I really knew you, but I've browsed here enough to see that you were a respectable member who makes interesting posts).

 

 

 

100 idiots with 400m +, and most of them have gotten it unfairly? I hope you are being sarcastic...

 

 

 

Even I, and I dont consider myself uber rich, have over 400m. I havent gottan a single GWD drop, besides some shards. Imagine if I did GWD regularly too...

 

 

 

I'm not gonna try and explain everything, cause Madman has already did that for me.

 

 

 

Only thing I might wanna add, is that I kind of agree with third age being hoarded by merchants. Before the GE third age was like 30-50M or so for a set. After the GE, and price controls, merchanters stopped doing partyhats and jumped on third age. HOWEVER, since merchants jumped on it, other people got interested in it too, so demand raised. People realised it IS really rare, and compared to partyhats, actually useful. So there is demand for this third age, also by not-merchants.

 

It's just that, once an item is on the rise and it's hard to get (cause of the frikking price controls, and the rarity ofc), prices have the tendency to totally inflate. Even more so cause of the fact that junk isnt worthless. So yes, third age street prices are stupidly high. But no, it's not just merchants that buy them.

 

 

 

I think you just underestimate the amount of cash people have. A lot of people have 100m + cash that they can't do anything with. So what do they do? They buy this item that is supposed to go up.

 

 

 

Remember when slayer came out and Oddball and some others got incredibely rich? Well, that was the time partyhats totally [bleep]ed. Oddball had gained like 1Bil and he could do nothing with it (no GS's, no bandos, no ...), so he and other slayers invested in dicontinued items.

 

 

 

Now, we have new rares, since partyhats have lost their fate: Third age and Spirit shields and even more rich people.

[Lep]

In my opinion, all of the GE Prices are completely correct, although Blue Phat should be lowered a bit. The way I see it is that the real problem is that there are a small handfull of players out there with amazingly high amounts of cash who real world traded, faked stakes and sold brand new items ridiculously high, such as when Whips first came out. There's got to be about what, 100 or less extremely rich people out there with 400m+? Most of this money wasn't even gained fairly, but few were. So the way I see it, Runescape has roughly 100 rich idiots that constantly sell and resell items amongst each other over and over and not selling items in the GE because they are too stuck up to sell their items for a price which their group of 100 people doesn't think is the right price, even though most of the money they have wasn't gained fairly in the first place.

 

 

 

The GE price of Spirit Shields for example, that price is perfect. However, the 100 idiots all agree that 130M is way too cheap. :roll: So they decide to price it at 500M, which is the price that only the 100 idiots can buy at.

 

 

 

Many people out there can't even afford a Whip, and the average rich player has only enough to buy a Godsword and some good armor. The actual rich people, the 100 idiots who gained their money unfairly, need to stop being stuck up and sell in the GE. Seriously, 130M or whatever is a perfectly reasonable price for a stupid shield which has less stats than a DFS but has some stupid special with it. The AGS is only about 60M because of it's special... are you seriously telling me that because a shield can block 25% damage, it adds 500M to it's value? No, it doesn't, but the 100 idiots seem to think so. Yes, 3rd Age is very rare, but it's stats are also worse than Barrows which should be kept into factor even though this is Runescape and things are different here. A full set of 3rd Age Melee that is worse than Torags shouldn't cost almost 1 Billion, but the 100 idiots think it is. However, even amongst those 100 idiots, maybe only 50 of those idiots can even afford something that high.

 

This is honestly one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. Less than 100 "idiots" with 400m+? There's probably 100 tif users alone with more than 400m, and there's thousands if not 10s of thousands of players with 400m+. On top of that, you think that everyone who has money made it unfairly - which tells me that either you're jealous, or simply aren't very well educated on how money is made.

 

 

 

*Side note* - The real world traders on the purchasing end are very poor in game, and the real world traders on the selling end are extremely rich in game and they make that money in-game, fairly. So using real world traders as an example was poor in itself.

 

 

 

Anywho, you think that prices are correct as they are? The reason Divine/Elysian spirit shields are stuck in the GE is not because there's "100 idiots" stock piling them...it's because they are WORTH more than their GE price, and people are WILLING to pay as much as 300m+ for them...just like how people are willing to sell their partyhats for 50m but the GE won't let them.

 

 

 

As for the the usefullness of those shields, if you feel the DFS is better, then you go right ahead and be happy that it's hundreds of millions cheaper - but that's an opinion, not a fact. The stronger opinion however, is that the Divine shield is the best shield for the money bosses (gwd/kq) and the Eylysian shield is better for killing higher level non-boss npcs, and rune defender is better for low-medium level npcs. Now don't get me wrong...for it's price, the DFS probably is the best shield, but for those who have money and want the best of the best equipment, those 2 shields are better than DFS. Also, DFS is the best shield against dragons/wyverns still obviously.

 

 

 

Individuals can't change prices, small groups can't change prices...supply and demand is what runs the economy (even in rs) and as of right now, the GE prices are completely failing to reflect the supply and demand of a lot of items properly.

 

 

 

P.S. - was writing this before jenova posted...it's nice to see some people have a basic understanding for how things work.

 

 

 

I highly, highly doubt 10s of thousands of people have over 400M+. I made that post because I've played quite a few other games and Runescape is no different. MANY more people real world trade and buy cash than they are given credit for. These GP selling "companies" don't advertise and keep staying open because no one buys GP from them, it's because people buy GP from them constantly. (Or at least used to, before all of the limits) Tons of the people with amazingly high amounts of cash have bought it, and don't tell me most havn't, because they have. I've played a few games where only a few HUNDRED people play, and people spend thousands buying in game cash. People are not nearly as good as they are given credit for, they will real world trade and buy in game cash by the millions and they will act as if it's nothing, and they will lie constantly about it and others will believe that they are telling the truth. Even now with the limits, people real world trade Godswords, do that 10 times and you have almost 1 Billion GP, for what, only a few hundred $? That is not very much money to spend at ALL whatsoever for that amount of in game cash. I've seen this type of thing many times, and I've even been part of it before in another game, but when a new company finally took over, the main people making the game unfair and real world trading all got banned and now when I read the forums there, it is slightly friendlier and there's less arguing and bickering going on.

 

 

 

@Bedman

 

I'm sorry to hear that, but I stick with my opinion. However, yes I was being slightly sarcastic with that and sort of meant it to be a little comedic, but you probably understand generally what I'm trying to get at. I do understand that people have more money today than a few years ago, but 100M is still an extremely large amount of cash, even 10M is. There really isn't that many people with over 400M and higher, that is an extremely high amount of money. If 10s of thousands of people had over 400M like the other guy was suggesting, then this game would just be ridiculous. Nothing would be the prices they are now and merchanting would be far out of control. If 10,000 people had 400M each, that's 4,000,000,000,000 GP. That's just ridiculous, that many people don't have over 400M. :wall:

 

 

 

However, as I'm writing this I feel like this is starting to get a little off topic...

[bedman]

If 10s of thousands of people had over 400M like the other guy was suggesting, then this game would just be ridiculous. Nothing would be the prices they are now and merchanting would be far out of control. If 10,000 people had 400M each, that's 4,000,000,000,000 GP. That's just ridiculous, that many people don't have over 400M. :wall:

 

 

 

I'm afraid you need a reality check.

 

 

 

Merchanting is "far out of control". Clans can EASILY buy out an item and make it rise for a week straight.

 

 

 

I might be a bit naieve in how people get their cash, and I might underestimate the amount of real world traders, but even then.

 

 

 

Just count the amount of godswords in game. Hard thing to do, but just try. The think of all the profit those pro GWD'ers made.

 

That's just one example of how people get rich.

 

• Besides that you have people who just played a long time and had 1 or more partyhats and decided to sell it. (kind of my situation, I "made" over 100M asleep like that).
   
  Then we have the the slayer riches, when Whips were still good money.
   
  There's ofcourse the merchanters too.
   
  Maybe the source of the quickest richness: Staking (allthough, a lot of them seem to have the tendency to be banned, or is that just me?)
   
  While we're at it, dont forget the 91 + rcers. If you play enough for 91 rcing, you can also do another 400 hours of crafting to get 400M, right?
   
  And I could continue.

..

 

 

 

This game is bigger than you think, and people play more/make more money than you think.

 

 

 

/off topic

 

:-)

[canu44]

I do blame merchants for 3a prices.

 

 

 

About a month ago before the GE was installed, Third age itself was worth between 2mil-25mil(i had merched with third age back then). The third age platebody was the highest. Then Jagex put in the world 2 prices of third age into ge. Right after the Trade limit was put in, the Merchants bought out the whole stocks of third age. Since there input of third age is very little , the current clue rate for a individual piece is 1 in 10,000 clues, The merchants themselves know their third age items will never fail, so they made up the street prices that are up now.

 

 

 

The same was with animal masks, They were bought out with little input. The Animal masks failed because they were almost 1 in 750 clue scrolls of 2nd level, too common to mark a high Ge price.

 

 

 

I strongly support the street price of Dragon Claws, and spirit shields, as they are pretty much worth their money. You can easily earn 50mil pking with dragon claws within month. As for spirit shields There rarity, i estimate at 50 of each spirit shield in the game, and use makes them worth 500mil ( Not 1 billion gp that is worth in street price now, Again some merchanters happen to get hold of spirit shields to drive prices up)

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

@Jenova and Walka: I've got to tell you, we're not ignorant nor unknowing. Giving up this debate won't make you look weak, but calling the OP or myself (who so happens to be in the OP's corner) "brick walls" will. Funnily enough, the same could be said about you from my standpoint, but for the sake of simplicity, I'll just give this whole thing up.

 

 

 

The point here is to get rid of junk trades. Creating some sort of black-hole in which one can get some amount of cash back for their junk (between 50 and 70%) is half the battle; fixing stuck items, like 3A, Party Hats, or Divine Shields is the other half. The major issue here is that no one here can agree on what exactly needs to be done, and that's unfortunate.

 

 

 

Perhaps one day we'll finally agree that junk trades aren't beneficial to the game, and we'll end them of our own volition. Until that day, I'll be pushing for some updates to the GE to allow players to sell en masse to Gen stores.