Help put an end to junk trading

[xpx]

Mazgar- prices are decided by the laws of supply and demand, and no merchant can actually price those items unless he owns the monopoly which is impossible for any rs item.

 

 

 

No- junk trading is NOT good, in the same way cars are actually not good for our planet, but junk trading happens to be the best(arguably) means of trading for under/overvalued items, in the same way cars are the best means of transport. Since the only alternative to junk trading is BH trades, that are actually against jagex rules junk trades are not actually that bad. People do not usually go about making junk- only a very small percentage of all undervalued items are actually sold with junk and most people just follow the old guidelines- wait for prices to update and trade undervalued items for other items- but this very thing causes the problem- even without junk trades people wouldn't sell their items in the GE and the GE has no hope for ever being correct without some serious tweaking. Jagex made a system far too complicated to control and now they are paying the price- the more you junk trade, the more hope we have for jagex to realize this can't go on forever.

[Will H]

Geez.......it was quite interesting to read all that. And that quote chain was ridiculous.

 

 

 

I see what you both are saying, and i think you both have valid points. To sum up:

 

 

 

Mazgar: Junk trading is worthless, because the price you pay is the price of the junk+the price of the rare. So basically, its not worth it because your not getting any more for your money. Your just getting junk when you buy a rare. Also, the seller is just selling his junk at the GE price anyway, so its not actually that good.

 

 

 

Soma2035: Junk trading is good, because it allows a player to cash in on all the worthless crap that Jagex has overpriced in the GE, or that no one uses. Its a great way to liquidate assets and make a nice cash pile. Junk is annoying, but worth it, because a junk trade will allow you to instantly earn far above the GE price for the main item, and it allows you clear alot of bank space that is used from when you spent time skilling.

 

 

 

I almost agree with both of you. I have felt for a while that it would be nice if we could somehow get all the rares and other prices up to where they should be to reflect demand. But also, this would require many thousands of people to take many millions of loss to do. This is a good demonstration of the problems that arrise when the government institutes price controls. The government never does a good job about it, and it normally results in the almost total collapse of the economy, over time. Apparently, the Rich rule the world, and the rest of us poor saps have to dance to their tune.

 

 

 

If you watch the market tho, you will see something that both of you missed. Both of your arguments are founded on the supply. Soma2035 says in a nut shell that the suppliers must lower prices for a short time, in order to gradually raise them to where they should be. Mazgar says that suppliers should continue to maintain prices, because it will keep the ammounts of GP in the market stable, thus keeping the already flimsy market as shored up as can be achieved. From where I stand, I think I might see a third possible solution.

 

 

 

Here is my idea. Do not change anything about the selling process of rares. The owners get to decide what to sell the rares for, and there is really nothing anyone can do about it. Rather, the much larger masses of not so rich people need to start changing. They may not have any rares, but they are working their way up to them. So, do not change the supply, change the demand. Let the players who scrimp and save and pull all thier money together refuse to buy the junk trades. Operate through the GE. When you want that santa, or that mask set, don't pay the money in a junk trade, put it in the GE and wait. Yeah, it might take a while, but then again, you will end up saving money. Post for the max price, and sit there and wait for it to go up. In and of themselves, rares are worthless. A player who wants to sell his santa for 45mil when the GE says 19mil is allowed to charge that much for his santa. But no one has to buy it. If he cant get rid of it, it will become worth less in his eyes. He will see it sitting in his bank, and think

 

 

 

"hmmm.....if I could sell that for 25mil, I would have enough to get the Armadyl GS of my dreams, and I would be able to make money with the GS." A little later, "hmmm....the GS is going down, and the santa's are going up slowly. The GE price for the Santa is now 22mil, which is exactly what I need to buy the GS and still have a respectable amount left over."

 

 

 

So he puts the santa in the GE, and it gets sold at the max price, thus driving the max price up, and getting him his GS. While everyone may not be completely happy, it is a workable solution. The GE price will slowly crawl up to where it should be, and for the most part, people will be able to go on living. The little guy will get a better shot at the rare he has always wanted, and the rich guys will get the high prices for rare items that they want. It will take more time then the other proposed solutions, but it will keep everyone happier.

 

 

 

In closing, screwing around with supply makes alot of demanding people mad, but screwing with demand only makes a few suppliers mad. Please consider :)

 

I like this idea, but there is an issue that remains. Every time a new medium to high 'value' item enters the game, which is fairly frequent, the prices will almost certainly be inaccurate from the start. After all, Jagex have no way of actually knowing what people will pay for an item, it's a case of typing in a guestimated number, holding your breath and hitting enter.

 

Instead, there should be a period of 'correction' for these items, which I'd define as a guestimated worth over 30,000gp (the non-GE trade limit, where junk trading starts to occur), where the GE price starts at the pre-set number, but the limits are relaxed to ±20% (and gradually shrink to ±5%, the more steady the GE price becomes) to get the prices really responsive to a relatively tiny market due to small initial supply.

 

If nothing happens even with this ±20% limit, the GE item price should be reviewed.

 

This would also work for already existing items where the street value is different to the GE value.

 

 

 

 

 

That's a good idea in theory, but I still don't know if people could curb their greed long enough to implement it. If the first people to get the items decide they want them to be 100x the G.E. price and go around telling everyone that's what they're worth, then the gullible players of runescape will fall in behind it like sheep obeying the hounds. Somehow I think that even if Jagex took major strides in making items G.E. prices match their street value and placed new items at much higher starting prices, players would still choose to set their prices much higher. For instance, imagine if Jagex released Divine or Elysian armor, and valued each piece at 100m starting price, do you think players would be satisfied, or do you think the players who got their hands on it first would decide it should be worth 500m per piece because they want more out of it. I really do believe that the best way to stop players from doing that is to bring in a system to liquidate junk for, or slightly below, G.E. prices.

 

 

 

Off Topic: Will is Alien intentionally spelled wrong in your sig?

 

 

 

If the people who get the item want to set ridiculously high prices for new items, that is fine. Really low supply, really high demand, that's what is supposed to happen. And Jagex shouldn't set the initial price any higher than they are now, they should just let the market move faster by temporarily loosening the GE trade limit. Eventually people won't buy the item because it's too high, but the sellers will lower their offer price because it's not unreasonable for them. This will then lower gradually enough to be tracked by the ±5% margin.

 

 

 

Off Topic:Lol, sorry, it's action, not alien. I need to do my sig again, the image quality has degraded a bit.

[magzar]

Geez.......it was quite interesting to read all that. And that quote chain was ridiculous.

 

 

 

I see what you both are saying, and i think you both have valid points. To sum up:

 

 

 

Mazgar: Junk trading is worthless, because the price you pay is the price of the junk+the price of the rare. So basically, its not worth it because your not getting any more for your money. Your just getting junk when you buy a rare. Also, the seller is just selling his junk at the GE price anyway, so its not actually that good.

 

 

 

Soma2035: Junk trading is good, because it allows a player to cash in on all the worthless crap that Jagex has overpriced in the GE, or that no one uses. Its a great way to liquidate assets and make a nice cash pile. Junk is annoying, but worth it, because a junk trade will allow you to instantly earn far above the GE price for the main item, and it allows you clear alot of bank space that is used from when you spent time skilling.

 

 

 

I almost agree with both of you. I have felt for a while that it would be nice if we could somehow get all the rares and other prices up to where they should be to reflect demand. But also, this would require many thousands of people to take many millions of loss to do. This is a good demonstration of the problems that arrise when the government institutes price controls. The government never does a good job about it, and it normally results in the almost total collapse of the economy, over time. Apparently, the Rich rule the world, and the rest of us poor saps have to dance to their tune.

 

 

 

If you watch the market tho, you will see something that both of you missed. Both of your arguments are founded on the supply. Soma2035 says in a nut shell that the suppliers must lower prices for a short time, in order to gradually raise them to where they should be. Mazgar says that suppliers should continue to maintain prices, because it will keep the ammounts of GP in the market stable, thus keeping the already flimsy market as shored up as can be achieved. From where I stand, I think I might see a third possible solution.

 

 

 

Here is my idea. Do not change anything about the selling process of rares. The owners get to decide what to sell the rares for, and there is really nothing anyone can do about it. Rather, the much larger masses of not so rich people need to start changing. They may not have any rares, but they are working their way up to them. So, do not change the supply, change the demand. Let the players who scrimp and save and pull all thier money together refuse to buy the junk trades. Operate through the GE. When you want that santa, or that mask set, don't pay the money in a junk trade, put it in the GE and wait. Yeah, it might take a while, but then again, you will end up saving money. Post for the max price, and sit there and wait for it to go up. In and of themselves, rares are worthless. A player who wants to sell his santa for 45mil when the GE says 19mil is allowed to charge that much for his santa. But no one has to buy it. If he cant get rid of it, it will become worth less in his eyes. He will see it sitting in his bank, and think

 

 

 

"hmmm.....if I could sell that for 25mil, I would have enough to get the Armadyl GS of my dreams, and I would be able to make money with the GS." A little later, "hmmm....the GS is going down, and the santa's are going up slowly. The GE price for the Santa is now 22mil, which is exactly what I need to buy the GS and still have a respectable amount left over."

 

 

 

So he puts the santa in the GE, and it gets sold at the max price, thus driving the max price up, and getting him his GS. While everyone may not be completely happy, it is a workable solution. The GE price will slowly crawl up to where it should be, and for the most part, people will be able to go on living. The little guy will get a better shot at the rare he has always wanted, and the rich guys will get the high prices for rare items that they want. It will take more time then the other proposed solutions, but it will keep everyone happier.

 

 

 

In closing, screwing around with supply makes alot of demanding people mad, but screwing with demand only makes a few suppliers mad. Please consider :)

 

I like this idea, but there is an issue that remains. Every time a new medium to high 'value' item enters the game, which is fairly frequent, the prices will almost certainly be inaccurate from the start. After all, Jagex have no way of actually knowing what people will pay for an item, it's a case of typing in a guestimated number, holding your breath and hitting enter.

 

Instead, there should be a period of 'correction' for these items, which I'd define as a guestimated worth over 30,000gp (the non-GE trade limit, where junk trading starts to occur), where the GE price starts at the pre-set number, but the limits are relaxed to ±20% (and gradually shrink to ±5%, the more steady the GE price becomes) to get the prices really responsive to a relatively tiny market due to small initial supply.

 

If nothing happens even with this ±20% limit, the GE item price should be reviewed.

 

This would also work for already existing items where the street value is different to the GE value.

 

 

 

 

 

That's a good idea in theory, but I still don't know if people could curb their greed long enough to implement it. If the first people to get the items decide they want them to be 100x the G.E. price and go around telling everyone that's what they're worth, then the gullible players of runescape will fall in behind it like sheep obeying the hounds. Somehow I think that even if Jagex took major strides in making items G.E. prices match their street value and placed new items at much higher starting prices, players would still choose to set their prices much higher. For instance, imagine if Jagex released Divine or Elysian armor, and valued each piece at 100m starting price, do you think players would be satisfied, or do you think the players who got their hands on it first would decide it should be worth 500m per piece because they want more out of it. I really do believe that the best way to stop players from doing that is to bring in a system to liquidate junk for, or slightly below, G.E. prices.

 

 

 

Off Topic: Will is Alien intentionally spelled wrong in your sig?

 

 

 

If the people who get the item want to set ridiculously high prices for new items, that is fine. Really low supply, really high demand, that's what is supposed to happen. And Jagex shouldn't set the initial price any higher than they are now, they should just let the market move faster by temporarily loosening the GE trade limit. Eventually people won't buy the item because it's too high, but the sellers will lower their offer price because it's not unreasonable for them. This will then lower gradually enough to be tracked by the ±5% margin.

 

 

 

Off Topic:Lol, sorry, it's action, not alien. I need to do my sig again, the image quality has degraded a bit.

 

 

 

I'm just saying I don't think players would be satisfied even if new items were ridiculously expensive from the start. I think people would still assert that they're worth far more than the set price, regardless of what that set price is.

 

 

 

Off Topic: Haha, wow that makes sense now, I just saw the planet and couldn't see the cross on the t, so naturally I thought alien. To be honest it would only take one alien to change everything though. What format is your sig in? You might want to try PNG it tends to avoid the blurriness and pixelation that jpegs end up with.

[Will H]

Geez.......it was quite interesting to read all that. And that quote chain was ridiculous.

 

 

 

I see what you both are saying, and i think you both have valid points. To sum up:

 

 

 

Mazgar: Junk trading is worthless, because the price you pay is the price of the junk+the price of the rare. So basically, its not worth it because your not getting any more for your money. Your just getting junk when you buy a rare. Also, the seller is just selling his junk at the GE price anyway, so its not actually that good.

 

 

 

Soma2035: Junk trading is good, because it allows a player to cash in on all the worthless crap that Jagex has overpriced in the GE, or that no one uses. Its a great way to liquidate assets and make a nice cash pile. Junk is annoying, but worth it, because a junk trade will allow you to instantly earn far above the GE price for the main item, and it allows you clear alot of bank space that is used from when you spent time skilling.

 

 

 

I almost agree with both of you. I have felt for a while that it would be nice if we could somehow get all the rares and other prices up to where they should be to reflect demand. But also, this would require many thousands of people to take many millions of loss to do. This is a good demonstration of the problems that arrise when the government institutes price controls. The government never does a good job about it, and it normally results in the almost total collapse of the economy, over time. Apparently, the Rich rule the world, and the rest of us poor saps have to dance to their tune.

 

 

 

If you watch the market tho, you will see something that both of you missed. Both of your arguments are founded on the supply. Soma2035 says in a nut shell that the suppliers must lower prices for a short time, in order to gradually raise them to where they should be. Mazgar says that suppliers should continue to maintain prices, because it will keep the ammounts of GP in the market stable, thus keeping the already flimsy market as shored up as can be achieved. From where I stand, I think I might see a third possible solution.

 

 

 

Here is my idea. Do not change anything about the selling process of rares. The owners get to decide what to sell the rares for, and there is really nothing anyone can do about it. Rather, the much larger masses of not so rich people need to start changing. They may not have any rares, but they are working their way up to them. So, do not change the supply, change the demand. Let the players who scrimp and save and pull all thier money together refuse to buy the junk trades. Operate through the GE. When you want that santa, or that mask set, don't pay the money in a junk trade, put it in the GE and wait. Yeah, it might take a while, but then again, you will end up saving money. Post for the max price, and sit there and wait for it to go up. In and of themselves, rares are worthless. A player who wants to sell his santa for 45mil when the GE says 19mil is allowed to charge that much for his santa. But no one has to buy it. If he cant get rid of it, it will become worth less in his eyes. He will see it sitting in his bank, and think

 

 

 

"hmmm.....if I could sell that for 25mil, I would have enough to get the Armadyl GS of my dreams, and I would be able to make money with the GS." A little later, "hmmm....the GS is going down, and the santa's are going up slowly. The GE price for the Santa is now 22mil, which is exactly what I need to buy the GS and still have a respectable amount left over."

 

 

 

So he puts the santa in the GE, and it gets sold at the max price, thus driving the max price up, and getting him his GS. While everyone may not be completely happy, it is a workable solution. The GE price will slowly crawl up to where it should be, and for the most part, people will be able to go on living. The little guy will get a better shot at the rare he has always wanted, and the rich guys will get the high prices for rare items that they want. It will take more time then the other proposed solutions, but it will keep everyone happier.

 

 

 

In closing, screwing around with supply makes alot of demanding people mad, but screwing with demand only makes a few suppliers mad. Please consider :)

 

I like this idea, but there is an issue that remains. Every time a new medium to high 'value' item enters the game, which is fairly frequent, the prices will almost certainly be inaccurate from the start. After all, Jagex have no way of actually knowing what people will pay for an item, it's a case of typing in a guestimated number, holding your breath and hitting enter.

 

Instead, there should be a period of 'correction' for these items, which I'd define as a guestimated worth over 30,000gp (the non-GE trade limit, where junk trading starts to occur), where the GE price starts at the pre-set number, but the limits are relaxed to ±20% (and gradually shrink to ±5%, the more steady the GE price becomes) to get the prices really responsive to a relatively tiny market due to small initial supply.

 

If nothing happens even with this ±20% limit, the GE item price should be reviewed.

 

This would also work for already existing items where the street value is different to the GE value.

 

 

 

 

 

That's a good idea in theory, but I still don't know if people could curb their greed long enough to implement it. If the first people to get the items decide they want them to be 100x the G.E. price and go around telling everyone that's what they're worth, then the gullible players of runescape will fall in behind it like sheep obeying the hounds. Somehow I think that even if Jagex took major strides in making items G.E. prices match their street value and placed new items at much higher starting prices, players would still choose to set their prices much higher. For instance, imagine if Jagex released Divine or Elysian armor, and valued each piece at 100m starting price, do you think players would be satisfied, or do you think the players who got their hands on it first would decide it should be worth 500m per piece because they want more out of it. I really do believe that the best way to stop players from doing that is to bring in a system to liquidate junk for, or slightly below, G.E. prices.

 

 

 

Off Topic: Will is Alien intentionally spelled wrong in your sig?

 

 

 

If the people who get the item want to set ridiculously high prices for new items, that is fine. Really low supply, really high demand, that's what is supposed to happen. And Jagex shouldn't set the initial price any higher than they are now, they should just let the market move faster by temporarily loosening the GE trade limit. Eventually people won't buy the item because it's too high, but the sellers will lower their offer price because it's not unreasonable for them. This will then lower gradually enough to be tracked by the ±5% margin.

 

 

 

Off Topic:Lol, sorry, it's action, not alien. I need to do my sig again, the image quality has degraded a bit.

 

 

 

I'm just saying I don't think players would be satisfied even if new items were ridiculously expensive from the start. I think people would still assert that they're worth far more than the set price, regardless of what that set price is.

 

 

 

Off Topic: Haha, wow that makes sense now, I just saw the planet and couldn't see the cross on the t, so naturally I thought alien. To be honest it would only take one alien to change everything though. What format is your sig in? You might want to try PNG it tends to avoid the blurriness and pixelation that jpegs end up with.

 

They would, that's what the seller is supposed to do, but buyers will not buy when it's too high. When that happens, the buyers will take control and realise they can push the price down. Hype does that, but it's relatively harmless in the long term.

 

 

 

Off Topic: It's a JPEG, but for a good reason. I originally formatted in PNG and the size rocketed to 174KB, well over the 100KB limit, as pointed out by a passing mod whom I can't remember the name of right now. Problem is, my sig is near uncompressable, and I suspect that reformatting back to JPEG caused the serious degredation. In any case, I made a new one out of the same picture straight into JPEG and it's much better.

[Madmanpur3]

[hide=quotes]

Magzar....in real life, would you rather have a car and a thousand clothes pins that the government tells you are worth a thousand dollars each - or a car, a nicely furnished house, a boat, and all the food you want? The first option is worth let's say $1,050,000 while the second option is only worth $1,000,000.

 

 

 

Now keep in mind, these clothes pins can't be used as currency and literally nobody is willing to do business with you if you only offer clothes pins alone.

 

 

 

You're entire argument is that the first option is better than the second...which is RIDICULOUS. Do you profit from junk trades in terms of how much the game tells you all your stuff is worth? Nope. Does anybody care about how much the game tells us our stuff is worth when it's wrong? Nope.

 

Madmanpur3 i think pretty much everyone agrees that you don't know what you're talking about, especially since you in essence just asked me if i'd rather have a rare and a ton of junk, or a group of rares. That analogy doesn't even come close to making sense in this argument.

 

I tried to stupify it down to your level, but it looks like I'll have to go even lower. Attempt number two...

 

 

 

You have a rare gem and a thousand clothes pins, the real life GE values the gem at $100,000 and the clothes pins at $1,000 each. You have 1 of two options....

 

 

 

1) You sell the gem on the real life GE for $105,000 and are left with $105,000 cash and 1,000 clothes pins - with that $105,000 you purchase a very nice car. Total value in the end - $1,105,000.

 

 

 

2) You trade the gem alongside the clothes pins to someone for $1,100,000 cash. Then using that cash, you are able to purchase a very nice car, a house, a boat, and all the food you want. Total value in the end - $1,100,000.

 

 

 

Now to repeat myself, you are arguing that option 1 is better since you are left with $5,000 more in the end according to the GE prices....which is (another repeat coming up) RIDICULOUS.

 

 

 

Scenario 1 is selling a divine sigil in the ge, scenario 2 is junk trading the divine sigil...you are telling us that scenario 1 is the better choice so we are telling you that you're argument is very, very dumb.

[/hide]

 

hey genius i've already said multiple times, if you have the junk, it's better to initiate a junk trade to rid yourself of it, and then start using the G.E.

 

If I had a gem, and 1000 clothes pins, and could sell them together for 1,100,000 i would. However, if I only had the gem, I would sell it by itself rather than trying to find 1000 clothes pins.

 

I don't get what you haven't gotten about that, because I've repeated it multiple times.

 

I'll tell you what I don't get about selling that gem on the ge, the fact that there are many way better options out there - which other players do and would choose to do versus your suggestion of selling it on the ge.

 

 

 

Option 1) They sell the gem to a friend because if they're gonna make someone's day, they'd rather make their friend's day versus some random player. Plus, as noted previously in this thread, friends can find ways to pay you back through time.

 

 

 

Option 2) Save it and wait until you can get a better price for it. This may take a very long time, but in not selling it for a horrible price you are saving yourself money.

 

 

 

Option 3) Train some skills/kill some monsters in order to obtain some junk. All it takes is the difference from the max price of the rare and the market price of the rare in junk in order for that to be more worth it than selling it on the ge.

 

 

 

Option 4) Trade your underpriced rare for a different underpriced rare that is more useful to you.

 

 

 

If none of those options are available to you, say you absolutely need the cash immediately and don't have a friend willing to buy it and have no junk...then yes, it makes sense to sell it on the ge - otherwise any one of those options is a better, more intelligent alternative than selling it on the ge (and you don't seem to get this).

[acenator]

i agree with this solution wholeheartedly. This is actually basically what I was originally trying to suggest before the thread became a massive debate over whether junk trading makes profit or not.

 

The thread became a debate over whether or not junk trading is actually profitable because that was one of your main arguments in support of your idea to just forget junk trading completely without fixing the GE.

 

 

 

Now, I will agree that junk trading is a problem; it is a problem created by the GE. Fix the GE (Soma's ideas being some of the best I've seen yet), and junk trading will go away.

[magzar]

i agree with this solution wholeheartedly. This is actually basically what I was originally trying to suggest before the thread became a massive debate over whether junk trading makes profit or not.

 

The thread became a debate over whether or not junk trading is actually profitable because that was one of your main arguments in support of your idea to just forget junk trading completely without fixing the GE.

 

 

 

Now, I will agree that junk trading is a problem; it is a problem created by the GE. Fix the GE (Soma's ideas being some of the best I've seen yet), and junk trading will go away.

 

 

 

 

 

Acenator, even if the GE was adjusted, people would still say it's wrong because, they will always want more and more for their items. I really don't think simply changing the GE will have nearly the effect that you think it would. I also never said the GE prices were right. I said that if people traded on the GE the prices would adjust overtime. The biggest thing that needs to be done is to institute a way to get rid of your junk as no one in their right mind would junk trade if they knew they could get the same amount by dumping onto NPCs. It would be quicker and much less hassle all around. I do think that the GE needs adjustments though. However, I think that if Jagex only changed the GE, and did not add a new way to get rid of junk, that players would either raise their prices in turn, or come up with another scheme to dump their junk off on other people.

 

 

 

@Madmanpur3: In your #3 you suggest it being a good idea to go gather junk. Please, catch up. If you don't have the junk already you're better off selling for max on the GE if that item's price isn't moving.(if you intend to make a profit that is.)

 

If you already have 99 in those "junk producing skills," why in the name of all that is holy would you go waste your time doing them to make junk when you could be out doing something profitable like runecrafting? We've reached a consensus thatm if you don't have junk to get rid of you're better off selling a stagnant rare for max on the GE.

 

As far as your #2, Holding a stagnant rare and hoping for a miracle is no better than holding junk and hoping it high alchs itself for free. 1 and 4 I'm cool with.

[lordkafei]

... If the first people to get the items decide they want them to be 100x the G.E. price and go around telling everyone that's what they're worth, then the gullible players of runescape will fall in behind it like sheep obeying the hounds. ...

 

 

 

Which is exactly the situation we already have, when you really think about it.

[magzar]

... If the first people to get the items decide they want them to be 100x the G.E. price and go around telling everyone that's what they're worth, then the gullible players of runescape will fall in behind it like sheep obeying the hounds. ...

 

 

 

Which is exactly the situation we already have, when you really think about it.

 

 

 

Yeh, which is why people say some items are underpriced in the first place. There's no real reason that they're "worth" that much. That's just the prices the first sellers decided they would like to sell them for. Not that it's all their fault though. We, as buyers shouldn't be quite so to pay ridiculous prices to get our hands on the items before anyone else that we allow sellers to gouge prices at will. Smart buying and selling is the key to being wealthy in life, and an in runescape.

[slay_revenge]

i quote one part that is flawed

 

 

 

first page, topic

 

"while i know a lot of players are thinking "why would i want to lose (insert amount) gold by doing this when i can use junk"

 

think about it, the junk you gather has the same value as the extra gold being added to the rare item's cost

 

you're not increasing your profit, you're just selling your rare for its market price and the a ton of junk for its respective price

 

nothing is gained by this, and it is in turn one of the biggest problems with the g.e." first page (i'm never learning how to quote properly :thumbsup: )

 

 

 

Well just for a history lesson, when black bolts come into runescape, during the early days of acidy's cc, the super poisoned bolts were bought out, along with black bolt. now with black P++ at 2k+ each, it was possible to buy black bolts and super poison in a pot and mix them together to make a staggering profit, and these P++ were sold as junk with rares easily reaching high numbers for a short period of time before they got out into the ge and crashed. So why would i not take advantage of paying a little amount of money for the bolts , mix them, sell it with 3rd age and make a lot more money? and after have the P++ crash so i could still retain the full value of my rares, and have utilized that junk for the period of time it was good :D .

 

 

 

and junk also drives lending, if you choose to lend out for money. say i fletch maple longs (u) they will never sell,or take weeks, so i might as well get my money back by lending it out with a rare item , and charging the recipient by putting up my maple bow's. how can you even say it isn't a gain? sure the lovey ge says its a balanced even trade, but go to a general store and try to buy a addy pl8 , will it sell for bows or money...

 

 

 

 

 

imo: this is a very stupid topic the worst i've seen so far :twisted: . just by asking tip it players,--and not even all of them,since not all of them do junk trades or deal with them, its very pointless, so what if you honestly get a few tip it players to refuse junk? like its going to dent a fully running part of the rs economy, its merly common scence. unless you posted this on every major rs forum, and went around w2 talking about it, this thread doesn't have a legitimate motive. are you looking for a hot topic ? or attention, because as it said in the title very clearly, "help put an end to junk trading", and you won't even dent it. :roll:

[buzz_knight]

aha I remember you on clan chat talking and arguing about this!

 

I have to agree though we should all just conform and use the g.e!

 

You don't make any profit out of using junk you get Xgp worth of junk + Ygp of an item and you get X+Ygp..

 

 

 

A blog post on zybez talks about this as well:

 

 

 

[hide=]My first experience with this piece of junk ironically known as junk trading was a few months ago. I was trying to buy a leaf-bladed sword in order to train slayer on some Turoths, when I realized not even the highest offer in the Grand Exchange was successful in purchasing one. After browsing the forum, I realized that someone was selling a leaf-bladed sword for around 200K higher than the regular Grand Exchange price. Intrigued, I gathered that they were selling the leaf-bladed sword and some "junk" in order to sell it at a higher price, giving them some sort of control of the market. When I traded them, I found that their junk was a bunch of spirit graahk pouches. I was actually trying to buy those in Grand Exchange, too, since I was runecrafting! I decided that I liked junk trading after that incident.

 

 

 

Alas, no decision is final. A few days ago, I was trying to sell my ruined dragon shard in World 2 and the Grand Exchange when I realized that everyone was selling this piece...the very REASON I did the quest in the first place...for millions less. Eventually, after hours of standing there, I was able to sell it. However, it was right then and there that I realized that this junk trading that we thought helped us keep control over our game is actually the slow death of our fragile economy.

 

 

 

I'm going to fabricate a little scenario for you guys to imagine with me to help you understand how stupid it all is. Imagine that you just got dragon claws from one of those tormented demons after hundreds of kills. Excited, you go to Grand Exchange to sell them. You become ecstatic when you realize that people are buying them for around 80M each! However, you realize you don't have that much junk. Searching and searching, you start buying the junk. After you got your 79M worth of junk, you take those dragon claws, run up to a guy, put the junk and claws in, and you have your 80M! Yay you're SUPER SUPER RICH!

 

 

 

Wait...

 

 

 

No...you're not.

 

 

 

You had to spend that 79M, as in already have it IN THE BANK, on the junk required for you to sell those dragon claws, worth 1M. You got the 80M as a result of the 79M and 1M. In other words, after subtracting the losses you sustained from the profit you generated, you have 80M - 79M...that's 1M. That's the mid price of the dragon claws. You wasted your time for nothing and could've sold them higher and MUCH more quickly at max price in the Grand Exchange.

 

 

 

Okay. Let's imagine another scenario after this one. You're thinking, "Okay, Teddy, so buying them all at once for 79M was a major flop. So what? I'm going to go buy a bunch of junk right now and hope it rises so later I did make more money!" If it drops, well, you just got owned really badly in the hopes of a good future junk trade. If it does rise...so what? That's basically just merchanting. Besides, the amount of profit would be quite small and insignificant compared to the down payment. If you were able to turn tens of millions on junk trade, you'd probably not have to rely on junk trading anyway since you'd likely be rich enough.

 

 

 

Well, what about the junk that people make simply because it's the best they can to level or make money? Maybe you're one of those people that buys eyes of newts for a few GP each from a magic shop and sell them for around 50 GP each in the Grand Exchange. Maybe you're someone who makes maple longbows (u) because you want to level your fletching to make yew longs and mage longs. That's all well and good for the people that are actually dependent on such methods to really make their money or level in the game. But for someone with millions in the bank to be making these maple longs or merchanting these eyes of newts from store to GE? Less than 150K an hour and 50K an hour, respectively? I certainly hope that by the time you're trading items that are being junk traded, you have better ways of making money than this.

 

 

 

Think of all the inaccuracies in the prices of items as a result! A notable example in the past was a cat mask, being around 4M within World 2 but only a few hundred K at the GE price. Someone trying to buy a cat mask to wear around would be wasting their time. They'd either wait hours and hours until someone finally sells it in the Grand Exchange, or they'd have to go and waste their money on a cat mask and literally junk that they'd have to sell later.

 

 

 

Someone once tried to explain to me that junk trading was merely used to fix the differences in price when the Grand Exchange messes up its. The time it fails is when it apparently does not reach the equilibrium price. The thing is, if we just give the Grand Exchange a chance and stop being so stubborn in the thoughts that our price is right with junk trading, the values will reach equilibrium price. Almost all trading aside from junk trading exists in the Grand Exchange. The trades that sell more than a limit would allow are the only other real ones that could effect the supply and demand. However, these trades pale in comparison to the Grand Exchange so much that they're almost insignificant. The other trades, spur-of-the-moment trades, are those resulting in the extreme need for an item as soon as possible, such as buying a law rune or an item for a quest. The prices paid will be much more than the item is worth by default only so they can get their item and move on, so they'd be inaccurate.

 

 

 

That supposed equilibrium price is not being reached by the Grand Exchange for some items because a lot of people are siding with junk trading. If more of us decided to rebel against this and choose the Grand Exchange for our trades, you'd be surprised how quickly the prices will become accurate.

 

 

 

Junk trading is definitely a problem in RuneScape. The only help it gives to anyone is to the minority of people that are low enough in skills that they'd have to make that junk to level and/or make money. Otherwise, everyone's preoccupied with the thought of "Finally, free trade!" although their time and possible profit is being squandered in World 2 and the RSOF alike. This junk trading is destroying our already fragile economy, and we continue to do it without hesitation! I guess in the case of RuneScape, one man's junk is everyone's treasure.

 

 

 

Source: http://www.zybez.net/blog.php?type=2&id=128&runescape_junk.htm[/hide]

[magzar]

aha I remember you on clan chat talking and arguing about this!

 

I have to agree though we should all just conform and use the g.e!

 

You don't make any profit out of using junk you get Xgp worth of junk + Ygp of an item and you get X+Ygp..

 

 

 

A blog post on zybez talks about this as well:

 

 

 

[hide=]My first experience with this piece of junk ironically known as junk trading was a few months ago. I was trying to buy a leaf-bladed sword in order to train slayer on some Turoths, when I realized not even the highest offer in the Grand Exchange was successful in purchasing one. After browsing the forum, I realized that someone was selling a leaf-bladed sword for around 200K higher than the regular Grand Exchange price. Intrigued, I gathered that they were selling the leaf-bladed sword and some "junk" in order to sell it at a higher price, giving them some sort of control of the market. When I traded them, I found that their junk was a bunch of spirit graahk pouches. I was actually trying to buy those in Grand Exchange, too, since I was runecrafting! I decided that I liked junk trading after that incident.

 

 

 

Alas, no decision is final. A few days ago, I was trying to sell my ruined dragon shard in World 2 and the Grand Exchange when I realized that everyone was selling this piece...the very REASON I did the quest in the first place...for millions less. Eventually, after hours of standing there, I was able to sell it. However, it was right then and there that I realized that this junk trading that we thought helped us keep control over our game is actually the slow death of our fragile economy.

 

 

 

I'm going to fabricate a little scenario for you guys to imagine with me to help you understand how stupid it all is. Imagine that you just got dragon claws from one of those tormented demons after hundreds of kills. Excited, you go to Grand Exchange to sell them. You become ecstatic when you realize that people are buying them for around 80M each! However, you realize you don't have that much junk. Searching and searching, you start buying the junk. After you got your 79M worth of junk, you take those dragon claws, run up to a guy, put the junk and claws in, and you have your 80M! Yay you're SUPER SUPER RICH!

 

 

 

Wait...

 

 

 

No...you're not.

 

 

 

You had to spend that 79M, as in already have it IN THE BANK, on the junk required for you to sell those dragon claws, worth 1M. You got the 80M as a result of the 79M and 1M. In other words, after subtracting the losses you sustained from the profit you generated, you have 80M - 79M...that's 1M. That's the mid price of the dragon claws. You wasted your time for nothing and could've sold them higher and MUCH more quickly at max price in the Grand Exchange.

 

 

 

Okay. Let's imagine another scenario after this one. You're thinking, "Okay, Teddy, so buying them all at once for 79M was a major flop. So what? I'm going to go buy a bunch of junk right now and hope it rises so later I did make more money!" If it drops, well, you just got owned really badly in the hopes of a good future junk trade. If it does rise...so what? That's basically just merchanting. Besides, the amount of profit would be quite small and insignificant compared to the down payment. If you were able to turn tens of millions on junk trade, you'd probably not have to rely on junk trading anyway since you'd likely be rich enough.

 

 

 

Well, what about the junk that people make simply because it's the best they can to level or make money? Maybe you're one of those people that buys eyes of newts for a few GP each from a magic shop and sell them for around 50 GP each in the Grand Exchange. Maybe you're someone who makes maple longbows (u) because you want to level your fletching to make yew longs and mage longs. That's all well and good for the people that are actually dependent on such methods to really make their money or level in the game. But for someone with millions in the bank to be making these maple longs or merchanting these eyes of newts from store to GE? Less than 150K an hour and 50K an hour, respectively? I certainly hope that by the time you're trading items that are being junk traded, you have better ways of making money than this.

 

 

 

Think of all the inaccuracies in the prices of items as a result! A notable example in the past was a cat mask, being around 4M within World 2 but only a few hundred K at the GE price. Someone trying to buy a cat mask to wear around would be wasting their time. They'd either wait hours and hours until someone finally sells it in the Grand Exchange, or they'd have to go and waste their money on a cat mask and literally junk that they'd have to sell later.

 

 

 

Someone once tried to explain to me that junk trading was merely used to fix the differences in price when the Grand Exchange messes up its. The time it fails is when it apparently does not reach the equilibrium price. The thing is, if we just give the Grand Exchange a chance and stop being so stubborn in the thoughts that our price is right with junk trading, the values will reach equilibrium price. Almost all trading aside from junk trading exists in the Grand Exchange. The trades that sell more than a limit would allow are the only other real ones that could effect the supply and demand. However, these trades pale in comparison to the Grand Exchange so much that they're almost insignificant. The other trades, spur-of-the-moment trades, are those resulting in the extreme need for an item as soon as possible, such as buying a law rune or an item for a quest. The prices paid will be much more than the item is worth by default only so they can get their item and move on, so they'd be inaccurate.

 

 

 

That supposed equilibrium price is not being reached by the Grand Exchange for some items because a lot of people are siding with junk trading. If more of us decided to rebel against this and choose the Grand Exchange for our trades, you'd be surprised how quickly the prices will become accurate.

 

 

 

Junk trading is definitely a problem in RuneScape. The only help it gives to anyone is to the minority of people that are low enough in skills that they'd have to make that junk to level and/or make money. Otherwise, everyone's preoccupied with the thought of "Finally, free trade!" although their time and possible profit is being squandered in World 2 and the RSOF alike. This junk trading is destroying our already fragile economy, and we continue to do it without hesitation! I guess in the case of RuneScape, one man's junk is everyone's treasure.

 

 

 

Source: http://www.zybez.net/blog.php?type=2&id=128&runescape_junk.htm[/hide]

 

 

 

That's a good read. Unfortunately it's the same as my argument so I doubt it's going to do much good. Those for junk trading will just say we don't understand how it works, and that the junk is overpriced, and that it's actually worth 0.

 

 

 

The only real problem(mechanics wise) with the G.E. is that people don't use it, and because they don't use it the prices don't change, and so people think it's broken. How could anyone possibly expect it to work when there are hundreds of thousands of offers, but probably no more than 100 sellers per week, if that.

 

 

 

I honestly don't even understand how people accumulate so much junk, I'm level 106, all of my stats are above level 50, most are in at least the 60's and I have never accumulated junk. With a total level of over 1600 and no junk to show for it It's pretty apparent to me that levelling can be done without junk trading.

 

 

 

Some of the biggest junk producers are summoning and fletching

 

many summoning pouches are sellable on the G.E. and others can be exchanged for shards.

 

For some reason that I don't understand people seem to make A LOT of unstrung maple longbows. Personally I can't even begin to understand why. My fletching level is 65. How many maple longbows did i produce? 258. So, how, you ask, did I get 65 fletching with so little junk? Well I'll tell you!

 

 

 

During my "quest" for the Quest Cape(pardon the pun) I looked at some of the requirements. "Wow," I thought, "I need 69 smithing." This was soon after the release of Stealing creation and I had a few morphic tools. So I mined myself some mithril(eventually getting bored and buying ores instead) and I used those tools to smith mithril bolts due to the fact that, at the time, the bonus they provided was greatest for items made from a single bar. I accumulated a ton of mithril bolts, and so I thought, "Hey! Feathers are cheap. I'll get some and feather my bolts so I get the most out of them." Then since I had a bunch of uncut gems saved up(for some reason I still collect every gem I see, including sapphires) i cut them into bolt tips and tipped my bolts. I even enchanted them. So, during the course of getting the required smithing level I got to 65 fletching, where I can easily make yew bows. What's more is I did it while making an item that sells easily, and is really one of the smallest losses in smithing.

[Vezon Dash]

Personally I like the junk trades. It helps to get rid of useless items such as willow logs or spirit shards. But it can get out of hand....such as animal masks before they crashed.

[magzar]

Personally I like the junk trades. It helps to get rid of useless items such as willow logs or spirit shards. But it can get out of hand....such as animal masks before they crashed.

 

 

 

i do have like 1k willow logs -.- but i can always burn them

 

if i'm not mistaken teak is better xp these days and teak sells so yeh

[acenator]

Acenator, even if the GE was adjusted, people would still say it's wrong because, they will always want more and more for their items. I really don't think simply changing the GE will have nearly the effect that you think it would. I also never said the GE prices were right. I said that if people traded on the GE the prices would adjust overtime. The biggest thing that needs to be done is to institute a way to get rid of your junk as no one in their right mind would junk trade if they knew they could get the same amount by dumping onto NPCs. It would be quicker and much less hassle all around. I do think that the GE needs adjustments though. However, I think that if Jagex only changed the GE, and did not add a new way to get rid of junk, that players would either raise their prices in turn, or come up with another scheme to dump their junk off on other people.

 

Were the GE adjusted, you'd see the normal players start using it again. Also, did you even read Soma's ideas? There was mroe to them then just adjusting prices. And the ability to liquidate junk would come along with the removal of price floors and dependencies/ties simply because the prices of junk would fall to where people would actually buy it from the GE.

 

 

 

Implement both those changes at the same time and you will end up with what you want: people using the GE and the ability to liquidate junk. That said, there is still the chance for the GE to go off-track again, so I suggest you reread Soma's ideas because he offered some loical solutions to this problem.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

The only real problem(mechanics wise) with the G.E. is that people don't use it, and because they don't use it the prices don't change, and so people think it's broken. How could anyone possibly expect it to work when there are hundreds of thousands of offers, but probably no more than 100 sellers per week, if that.

 

And how can you expect people to use it when doing so means a loss of potential millions? Let's say there's an item worth 10 mill on the GE and 100 mill on the "street" and that the prices have not moved for 30+ days. You are out training and get one of these items ("item x"), do you sell it on the GE in order to help "fix" the GE or do you hold onto it? Selling it helps the GE, sure, but now that the GE's got the correct price, you don't have the item any more and, because the price leveled out at about 65 mill and you sold at 10 mill, you just took a 55 mill hit.

 

 

 

Yeah, real smart.

[Zaaps1]

Well junk trading has its benefits. Think about it like this:

 

 

 

Villager Sandals make roughly 800k of junk per hour.

 

 

 

Chef Delight Kegs make about 300k of junk per 2 minutes of work per day (and cooking xp, and like 10x the junk per keg if you get it to be mature).

 

 

 

So first you can stockpile Chef Delight Kegs and whip them all out when you DO get something you can junk trade (d claws, for example).

 

 

 

And if you don't have enough junk, if you don't make more than 800k per hour, you'll still "profit".

 

 

 

Think of it this way: 91 rc makes about 800k per hour, give or take.

 

 

 

You get a d claw drop. That's about 76m you need in junk to get the most out if it.

 

 

 

Now let's say you've got 10m in CDK, then that's 66m you need to come up with.

 

 

 

Now if you were 91 rc, there would be no point in collecting junk using Villager Sandals, since you can make 800k per hour ANYWAY with RC xp. However what if you don't? What if your best way of making money only gets 500k per hour? Then you have been saved, since you can now effectively be a "91 rc'er" until you make 66m. That's because collecting junk would make 300k more money per hour than you could of, except without xp.

 

 

 

The concept would remain the same if the prices changed at all.

[magzar]

Acenator, even if the GE was adjusted, people would still say it's wrong because, they will always want more and more for their items. I really don't think simply changing the GE will have nearly the effect that you think it would. I also never said the GE prices were right. I said that if people traded on the GE the prices would adjust overtime. The biggest thing that needs to be done is to institute a way to get rid of your junk as no one in their right mind would junk trade if they knew they could get the same amount by dumping onto NPCs. It would be quicker and much less hassle all around. I do think that the GE needs adjustments though. However, I think that if Jagex only changed the GE, and did not add a new way to get rid of junk, that players would either raise their prices in turn, or come up with another scheme to dump their junk off on other people.

 

Were the GE adjusted, you'd see the normal players start using it again. Also, did you even read Soma's ideas? There was mroe to them then just adjusting prices. And the ability to liquidate junk would come along with the removal of price floors and dependencies/ties simply because the prices of junk would fall to where people would actually buy it from the GE.

 

 

 

Implement both those changes at the same time and you will end up with what you want: people using the GE and the ability to liquidate junk. That said, there is still the chance for the GE to go off-track again, so I suggest you reread Soma's ideas because he offered some loical solutions to this problem.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

The only real problem(mechanics wise) with the G.E. is that people don't use it, and because they don't use it the prices don't change, and so people think it's broken. How could anyone possibly expect it to work when there are hundreds of thousands of offers, but probably no more than 100 sellers per week, if that.

 

And how can you expect people to use it when doing so means a loss of potential millions? Let's say there's an item worth 10 mill on the GE and 100 mill on the "street" and that the prices have not moved for 30+ days. You are out training and get one of these items ("item x"), do you sell it on the GE in order to help "fix" the GE or do you hold onto it? Selling it helps the GE, sure, but now that the GE's got the correct price, you don't have the item any more and, because the price leveled out at about 65 mill and you sold at 10 mill, you just took a 55 mill hit.

 

 

 

Yeah, real smart.

 

 

 

 

 

ok but imagine if people used the g.e. and prices did hit 65m, and then you were lucky enough to get another of the item. If people never sold the prices would have stayed at 10m. So by not selling everyone is taking a 55m hit. If no one ever sells, the price will never rise.

 

 

 

It's kind of like D claws which are now 19.7m since people are selling them on the G.E. instead of junking them prices are rising VERY quickly. Would you have preferred if people junked them and they were still only worth 150k?

[Zaaps1]

Acenator, even if the GE was adjusted, people would still say it's wrong because, they will always want more and more for their items. I really don't think simply changing the GE will have nearly the effect that you think it would. I also never said the GE prices were right. I said that if people traded on the GE the prices would adjust overtime. The biggest thing that needs to be done is to institute a way to get rid of your junk as no one in their right mind would junk trade if they knew they could get the same amount by dumping onto NPCs. It would be quicker and much less hassle all around. I do think that the GE needs adjustments though. However, I think that if Jagex only changed the GE, and did not add a new way to get rid of junk, that players would either raise their prices in turn, or come up with another scheme to dump their junk off on other people.

 

Were the GE adjusted, you'd see the normal players start using it again. Also, did you even read Soma's ideas? There was mroe to them then just adjusting prices. And the ability to liquidate junk would come along with the removal of price floors and dependencies/ties simply because the prices of junk would fall to where people would actually buy it from the GE.

 

 

 

Implement both those changes at the same time and you will end up with what you want: people using the GE and the ability to liquidate junk. That said, there is still the chance for the GE to go off-track again, so I suggest you reread Soma's ideas because he offered some loical solutions to this problem.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

The only real problem(mechanics wise) with the G.E. is that people don't use it, and because they don't use it the prices don't change, and so people think it's broken. How could anyone possibly expect it to work when there are hundreds of thousands of offers, but probably no more than 100 sellers per week, if that.

 

And how can you expect people to use it when doing so means a loss of potential millions? Let's say there's an item worth 10 mill on the GE and 100 mill on the "street" and that the prices have not moved for 30+ days. You are out training and get one of these items ("item x"), do you sell it on the GE in order to help "fix" the GE or do you hold onto it? Selling it helps the GE, sure, but now that the GE's got the correct price, you don't have the item any more and, because the price leveled out at about 65 mill and you sold at 10 mill, you just took a 55 mill hit.

 

 

 

Yeah, real smart.

 

 

 

 

 

ok but imagine if people used the g.e. and prices did hit 65m, and then you were lucky enough to get another of the item. If people never sold the prices would have stayed at 10m. So by not selling everyone is taking a 55m hit. If no one ever sells, the price will never rise.

 

 

 

Actually that's not true. The GE DOES "detect" if an item is "frozen" or not and will adjust the price. How it does this, I don't know, but there's a way it does as you can see with: Party hats, Halloween Masks, AGS and SGS before they fell like 50m.

[acenator]

[hide=quotes]

Acenator, even if the GE was adjusted, people would still say it's wrong because, they will always want more and more for their items. I really don't think simply changing the GE will have nearly the effect that you think it would. I also never said the GE prices were right. I said that if people traded on the GE the prices would adjust overtime. The biggest thing that needs to be done is to institute a way to get rid of your junk as no one in their right mind would junk trade if they knew they could get the same amount by dumping onto NPCs. It would be quicker and much less hassle all around. I do think that the GE needs adjustments though. However, I think that if Jagex only changed the GE, and did not add a new way to get rid of junk, that players would either raise their prices in turn, or come up with another scheme to dump their junk off on other people.

 

Were the GE adjusted, you'd see the normal players start using it again. Also, did you even read Soma's ideas? There was mroe to them then just adjusting prices. And the ability to liquidate junk would come along with the removal of price floors and dependencies/ties simply because the prices of junk would fall to where people would actually buy it from the GE.

 

 

 

Implement both those changes at the same time and you will end up with what you want: people using the GE and the ability to liquidate junk. That said, there is still the chance for the GE to go off-track again, so I suggest you reread Soma's ideas because he offered some loical solutions to this problem.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

The only real problem(mechanics wise) with the G.E. is that people don't use it, and because they don't use it the prices don't change, and so people think it's broken. How could anyone possibly expect it to work when there are hundreds of thousands of offers, but probably no more than 100 sellers per week, if that.

 

And how can you expect people to use it when doing so means a loss of potential millions? Let's say there's an item worth 10 mill on the GE and 100 mill on the "street" and that the prices have not moved for 30+ days. You are out training and get one of these items ("item x"), do you sell it on the GE in order to help "fix" the GE or do you hold onto it? Selling it helps the GE, sure, but now that the GE's got the correct price, you don't have the item any more and, because the price leveled out at about 65 mill and you sold at 10 mill, you just took a 55 mill hit.

 

 

 

Yeah, real smart.

[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

ok but imagine if people used the g.e. and prices did hit 65m, and then you were lucky enough to get another of the item. If people never sold the prices would have stayed at 10m. So by not selling everyone is taking a 55m hit. If no one ever sells, the price will never rise.

 

 

 

Actually that's not true. The GE DOES "detect" if an item is "frozen" or not and will adjust the price. How it does this, I don't know, but there's a way it does as you can see with: Party hats, Halloween Masks, AGS and SGS before they fell like 50m.

 

@ magzar: Not if Jagex did what they said they'd do and kept prices up to date. Then everyone would get the full 65 mill. And even if you did manage to get a second item x after the price hit 65 mill (without Jagex doing anything), you still missed out on 55 mill (had you kept it, you would have ended up being able to sell both of them at 65 mill each for a total of 130 mill instead of one for 10 mill and the other for 65 mill for a total of 75 mill).

 

 

 

@ Zaaps1: I believe Jagex actually just lowered the required number of completed trades for a price update so that only like 1-10 (only Jagex knows the actual amount) have to go through now for the prices to update. I could be wrong, though (I can't remember for sure if this was officially announced or just a rumor).

[Zaaps1]

[hide=quotes]

Acenator, even if the GE was adjusted, people would still say it's wrong because, they will always want more and more for their items. I really don't think simply changing the GE will have nearly the effect that you think it would. I also never said the GE prices were right. I said that if people traded on the GE the prices would adjust overtime. The biggest thing that needs to be done is to institute a way to get rid of your junk as no one in their right mind would junk trade if they knew they could get the same amount by dumping onto NPCs. It would be quicker and much less hassle all around. I do think that the GE needs adjustments though. However, I think that if Jagex only changed the GE, and did not add a new way to get rid of junk, that players would either raise their prices in turn, or come up with another scheme to dump their junk off on other people.

 

Were the GE adjusted, you'd see the normal players start using it again. Also, did you even read Soma's ideas? There was mroe to them then just adjusting prices. And the ability to liquidate junk would come along with the removal of price floors and dependencies/ties simply because the prices of junk would fall to where people would actually buy it from the GE.

 

 

 

Implement both those changes at the same time and you will end up with what you want: people using the GE and the ability to liquidate junk. That said, there is still the chance for the GE to go off-track again, so I suggest you reread Soma's ideas because he offered some loical solutions to this problem.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

The only real problem(mechanics wise) with the G.E. is that people don't use it, and because they don't use it the prices don't change, and so people think it's broken. How could anyone possibly expect it to work when there are hundreds of thousands of offers, but probably no more than 100 sellers per week, if that.

 

And how can you expect people to use it when doing so means a loss of potential millions? Let's say there's an item worth 10 mill on the GE and 100 mill on the "street" and that the prices have not moved for 30+ days. You are out training and get one of these items ("item x"), do you sell it on the GE in order to help "fix" the GE or do you hold onto it? Selling it helps the GE, sure, but now that the GE's got the correct price, you don't have the item any more and, because the price leveled out at about 65 mill and you sold at 10 mill, you just took a 55 mill hit.

 

 

 

Yeah, real smart.

[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

ok but imagine if people used the g.e. and prices did hit 65m, and then you were lucky enough to get another of the item. If people never sold the prices would have stayed at 10m. So by not selling everyone is taking a 55m hit. If no one ever sells, the price will never rise.

 

 

 

Actually that's not true. The GE DOES "detect" if an item is "frozen" or not and will adjust the price. How it does this, I don't know, but there's a way it does as you can see with: Party hats, Halloween Masks, AGS and SGS before they fell like 50m.

 

@ magzar: Not if Jagex did what they said they'd do and kept prices up to date. Then everyone would get the full 65 mill. And even if you did manage to get a second item x after the price hit 65 mill (without Jagex doing anything), you still missed out on 55 mill (had you kept it, you would have ended up being able to sell both of them at 65 mill each for a total of 130 mill instead of one for 10 mill and the other for 65 mill for a total of 75 mill).

 

 

 

@ Zaaps1: I believe Jagex actually just lowered the required number of completed trades for a price update so that only like 1-10 (only Jagex knows the actual amount) have to go through now for the prices to update. I could be wrong, though (I can't remember for sure if this was officially announced or just a rumor).

 

 

 

That may be true, but to my knowledge there's no forum or main page announcement. Besides the amount of Coin Shares would take care of that 1-10 anyway.

[acenator]

[hide=quotes]

Acenator, even if the GE was adjusted, people would still say it's wrong because, they will always want more and more for their items. I really don't think simply changing the GE will have nearly the effect that you think it would. I also never said the GE prices were right. I said that if people traded on the GE the prices would adjust overtime. The biggest thing that needs to be done is to institute a way to get rid of your junk as no one in their right mind would junk trade if they knew they could get the same amount by dumping onto NPCs. It would be quicker and much less hassle all around. I do think that the GE needs adjustments though. However, I think that if Jagex only changed the GE, and did not add a new way to get rid of junk, that players would either raise their prices in turn, or come up with another scheme to dump their junk off on other people.

 

Were the GE adjusted, you'd see the normal players start using it again. Also, did you even read Soma's ideas? There was mroe to them then just adjusting prices. And the ability to liquidate junk would come along with the removal of price floors and dependencies/ties simply because the prices of junk would fall to where people would actually buy it from the GE.

 

 

 

Implement both those changes at the same time and you will end up with what you want: people using the GE and the ability to liquidate junk. That said, there is still the chance for the GE to go off-track again, so I suggest you reread Soma's ideas because he offered some loical solutions to this problem.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

The only real problem(mechanics wise) with the G.E. is that people don't use it, and because they don't use it the prices don't change, and so people think it's broken. How could anyone possibly expect it to work when there are hundreds of thousands of offers, but probably no more than 100 sellers per week, if that.

 

And how can you expect people to use it when doing so means a loss of potential millions? Let's say there's an item worth 10 mill on the GE and 100 mill on the "street" and that the prices have not moved for 30+ days. You are out training and get one of these items ("item x"), do you sell it on the GE in order to help "fix" the GE or do you hold onto it? Selling it helps the GE, sure, but now that the GE's got the correct price, you don't have the item any more and, because the price leveled out at about 65 mill and you sold at 10 mill, you just took a 55 mill hit.

 

 

 

Yeah, real smart.

[/hide]

 

 

 

 

 

ok but imagine if people used the g.e. and prices did hit 65m, and then you were lucky enough to get another of the item. If people never sold the prices would have stayed at 10m. So by not selling everyone is taking a 55m hit. If no one ever sells, the price will never rise.

 

 

 

Actually that's not true. The GE DOES "detect" if an item is "frozen" or not and will adjust the price. How it does this, I don't know, but there's a way it does as you can see with: Party hats, Halloween Masks, AGS and SGS before they fell like 50m.

 

@ magzar: Not if Jagex did what they said they'd do and kept prices up to date. Then everyone would get the full 65 mill. And even if you did manage to get a second item x after the price hit 65 mill (without Jagex doing anything), you still missed out on 55 mill (had you kept it, you would have ended up being able to sell both of them at 65 mill each for a total of 130 mill instead of one for 10 mill and the other for 65 mill for a total of 75 mill).

 

 

 

@ Zaaps1: I believe Jagex actually just lowered the required number of completed trades for a price update so that only like 1-10 (only Jagex knows the actual amount) have to go through now for the prices to update. I could be wrong, though (I can't remember for sure if this was officially announced or just a rumor).

 

 

 

That may be true, but to my knowledge there's no forum or main page announcement. Besides the amount of Coin Shares would take care of that 1-10 anyway.

 

Whatever it may be, prices are moving (although very slowly for 3rd age and phats; I highly doubt either's price will level out before I head off to college next fall).

[PereGrin]

ok guys, i was flipping through the forum, and i saw this thread.

 

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=143&t=772792&p=6393863#p6393863

 

 

 

And as far as i can tell, its the worst thing i have ever heard.

 

 

 

here is the premis.

 

 

 

"Lets get rid of the trading system and just use the GE."

 

 

 

the OP is crying because he decided to sell his party hat for 108Mil junk instead of cash. according to him, he HAD to sell it. Can we please convince him otherwise, or at least make him stop whining? Hes saying, "No trading what so ever. I saw a guy buy 65 d chains on the ge, and sell them again for 18mil profit on the GE. he shouldnt be allowed to do this because i didnt think of it first. Lets limit the number of expensive items you can buy to 1 a day." If you agree with this, quit runescape and go suck your thumb somewhere.

[magzar]

ok guys, i was flipping through the forum, and i saw this thread.

 

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=143&t=772792&p=6393863#p6393863

 

 

 

And as far as i can tell, its the worst thing i have ever heard.

 

 

 

here is the premis.

 

 

 

"Lets get rid of the trading system and just use the GE."

 

 

 

the OP is crying because he decided to sell his party hat for 108Mil junk instead of cash. according to him, he HAD to sell it. Can we please convince him otherwise, or at least make him stop whining? Hes saying, "No trading what so ever. I saw a guy buy 65 d chains on the ge, and sell them again for 18mil profit on the GE. he shouldnt be allowed to do this because i didnt think of it first. Lets limit the number of expensive items you can buy to 1 a day." If you agree with this, quit runescape and go suck your thumb somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

Lulz what a........... noob! :ohnoes:

[yuriqiu]

Nice idea, but it will never happen. As long as the GE's faulty prices remains, junk trade will stay. The only way for Jagex to fix this is to pay A LOT more attention to the market and actually update prices accordingly.

[Omali]

If you agree with this, quit runescape and go suck your thumb somewhere.

 

 

 

I can really tell that you just joined. You really have no place telling someone else to go away.