Assisting suicide?

[Zygimantas]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,500449,00.html

 

 

 

ATLANTA A wide-ranging investigation into an alleged suicide assistance ring led to charges against four people and raids in nine states as authorities looked into how many deaths might have been involved.

 

 

 

Four members of the Final Exit Network were charged Wednesday with helping a 58-year-old Georgia man end his life by inhaling helium. The group assigns those seeking to end their lives a guide who instructs them to purchase two new helium tanks and a hood, known as an "exit bag," the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said.

 

 

 

It wasn't immediately clear how many deaths were being investigated by law enforcement agencies that include the FBI, but authorities in Arizona were looking into whether a death there involved the group.

 

 

 

Group members Thomas E. Goodwin, who was identified as the organization's president, and Claire Blehr, a member, were both arrested Wednesday at a home in northern Georgia, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation said. The arrests came after a sting operation in which an undercover agent posed as a member of the group.

 

 

 

Maryland authorities arrested the organization's medical director, Dr. Lawrence D. Egbert, 81, of Baltimore, and Nicholas Alec Sheridan, a Baltimore man who is a regional coordinator for the group.

 

 

 

The four were charged with assisted suicide, tampering with evidence and a violation of Georgia's anti-racketeering act.

 

 

 

Their charges stem from the June 2008 death of John Celmer in an assisted suicide in Cumming, about 35 miles north of Atlanta, said GBI spokesman John Bankhead.

 

 

 

Betty Celmer, the man's mother, said her son had suffered for years from cancer of the throat and mouth and that he had undergone extensive surgery with several more rounds to go.

 

 

 

"I know he was depressed, he called me every single Sunday," said Celmer, who is 85. She said she was suspicious of his death, but his siblings have denied it could have been suicide.

 

 

 

She contended that the group shouldn't face charges if they helped her son.

 

 

 

"If they helped John to die, that is what he wanted. I would never find them guilty for helping him," she said.

 

 

 

Authorities were executing search warrants at 14 sites in Arizona, Georgia, Florida, Maryland, Michigan, Ohio, Missouri, Colorado, and Montana, according to the GBI and the Maricopa County Attorney's Office in Arizona. Included in the searches were a group office in Georgia and a company in Montana that authorities said supplied items used in suicides.

 

 

 

Also raided were the homes of group volunteers in the other seven states.

 

 

 

Maricopa County Attorney Andrew Thomas said Arizona detectives are investigating whether the group assisted in a Phoenix woman's death.

 

 

 

Bankhead said new members of the group pay a $50 fee and follow an application process. When ready to commit suicide, the member is led through the process by two guides, he said.

 

 

 

The group's vice president said it supports those with irreversible illnesses who choose to end their lives, but its volunteers don't actively participate in the life-ending procedures. The group started in 2004 and has 3,000 dues-paying members.

 

 

 

"When they choose to exit, as we call it, we just hold their hand. That's about it," said Jerry Dincin, who's also a clinical psychologist in Chicago.

 

 

 

He said members are given a book, "The Final Exit," that outlines how they can end their lives. He said volunteers never encourage the members to commit suicide, but support them if that's their choice.

 

 

 

So, do you think these people should be charged with assisting suicide?

 

 

 

I personally think that if the club did not urge others to take their lives then they should not be charged, but for some reason I doubt that no one urged the victims.

 

 

 

What do you think?

[warri0r45]

I can't really tell from that article whether they urged them or not, so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. For me this is one of the reasons why assisted suicide should be legalised. If it is, we can regulate it with strict oversight by doctors and psychologists and only allow it for people with terminal illnesses or something of that ilk.

 

 

 

When it comes down to it I don't think anyone should have the right to tell me I can't end my life should I be on my death bed going through pain every moment of every day.

[mmmcannibalism]

it does seem they assist in the suicide process to an extent.

 

 

 

IMO assisted suicide should be legal but with strict ethical restrictions ie person cant have underage kids have to offer counseling for non terminal patient etc.

[doomy]

I agree that assisted suicide should be legal, but if it is it should be from doctors, not a business or whatever set up to do it, as they might pressure the people into doing it.

[Pinkbullet3]

I don't know too much about 'assisted suicide,' but how come these people want to be apart of ending someone else's life? I know they want to "help," but there are many other positive ways to do so.

 

 

 

:? :?:

[Lateralus]

Legalise it, legislate it, done.

 

 

 

I'm going out like Hemingway should I ever end up in a situation where I'd prefer death. Both barrels of a shotgun between the eyes.

[mmmcannibalism]

Legalise it, legislate it, done.

 

 

 

I'm going out like Hemingway should I ever end up in a situation where I'd prefer death. Both barrels of a shotgun between the eyes.

 

 

 

I prefer the build a giant funeral pyre and burn myself method personally.

 

 

 

That aside, what is the legal reason for not allowing assisted suicide? Not referring to pressuring someone as that should be illegal I mean like helping an elderly person that wants to die inject whatever into their arm.

[How2PK]

Legalise it, legislate it, done.

 

 

 

I'm going out like Hemingway should I ever end up in a situation where I'd prefer death. Both barrels of a shotgun between the eyes.

 

 

 

The heming way. :thumbup:

 

 

 

Stuff like this should be legalised. Those who won't make use of it because of religion (or whatever) can choose not to make use of it, those who don't go religion (or do go for religion and still want to make an end to their lives) should be able to do it in this way.

 

 

 

It's crazy stuff like this is being debated.

[ElkNight]

Legalise it, legislate it, done.

 

 

 

I'm going out like Hemingway should I ever end up in a situation where I'd prefer death. Both barrels of a shotgun between the eyes.

 

 

 

I prefer the build a giant funeral pyre and burn myself method personally.

 

 

 

That aside, what is the legal reason for not allowing assisted suicide? Not referring to pressuring someone as that should be illegal I mean like helping an elderly person that wants to die inject whatever into their arm.

 

Or like that guy from LOTR, set yourself on fire and jump off a cliff.

[warri0r45]

 

That aside, what is the legal reason for not allowing assisted suicide? Not referring to pressuring someone as that should be illegal I mean like helping an elderly person that wants to die inject whatever into their arm.

 

 

 

Religion/social conservatism. The church doesn't like it, basically.

[Zygimantas]

 

That aside, what is the legal reason for not allowing assisted suicide? Not referring to pressuring someone as that should be illegal I mean like helping an elderly person that wants to die inject whatever into their arm.

 

 

 

Religion/social conservatism. The church doesn't like it, basically.

Seriously? Is that it? What is this? The middle-ages?

[Lenticular_J]

Legalise it, legislate it, done.

 

 

 

I'm going out like Hemingway should I ever end up in a situation where I'd prefer death. Both barrels of a shotgun between the eyes.

 

I think it'll be tough to get a shotgun in Abercrombie and Fitch these days.

 

 

 

I dunno. I don't think I could help someone kill themselves. But, I dunno. Maybe it's To Kill a Mockingbird.

 

 

 

EDIT: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, rather.

[Necrobean]

Bah, suicide, pathetic.

[aspokaspofkjsopfkapo]

Legalise it, legislate it, done.

 

 

 

I'm going out like Hemingway should I ever end up in a situation where I'd prefer death. Both barrels of a shotgun between the eyes.

 

 

 

I prefer the build a giant funeral pyre and burn myself method personally.

 

 

 

That aside, what is the legal reason for not allowing assisted suicide? Not referring to pressuring someone as that should be illegal I mean like helping an elderly person that wants to die inject whatever into their arm.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, because assisted suicide can be regulated so easily and there's no way something like that could be used in a deceitful way [/sarcasm]

[How2PK]

I dunno. I don't think I could help someone kill themselves. But, I dunno. Maybe it's To Kill a Mockingbird.

 

 

 

EDIT: One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, rather.

 

 

 

 

 

haha. :thumbup:

[Joes_So_Cool]

I personally think this is a touchy topic to talk about, when it comes down to do it, I really don't think I'd be able to help someone end their life.

[Why_Not]

We knew John Celmer and we had been wondering where he had been for a while. He would always say hello to us when he delivered our laundry. :(

 

 

 

It's really hard for me to really decide on one way though..

[Will H]

This is something that I think should be legalised, but extensively controlled by experts in the field. Personally, I wouldn't assist a suicide if asked because I am not prepared or qualified to make that judgement, however I do believe that there are situations where people are.

 

For example, a terminally ill patient diagnosed by three separate qualified doctors without doubt, who declares a desire to end their life, again without doubt, should be allowed and assisted by qualified people to end his/her own life in a humane manner.

 

The most important thing is that people can be assured officially whether or not suicide is the correct course of action, instead of it being a completely personal judgement with an unacceptable risk of someone losing their life when they could have chosen a different path without suffering.

 

 

 

I'm not going to comment on the article because there's so many things which aren't mentioned which are vital to confidently saying whether it was right or wrong.

[Mikaleh]

This is something that I think should be legalised, but extensively controlled by experts in the field.

 

 

 

You my man have a new fan!

 

 

 

It's me!

 

 

 

I believe there's nothing wrong if someone wants to end their journey so long as they deeply consider it.

[Riku3220]

People need help commiting suicide? Seriously how hard is it to drive a knife into your heart?

[Mikaleh]

People need help commiting suicide? Seriously how hard is it to drive a knife into your heart?

 

 

 

That's a bit extreme. I'd assume that some people would fear the pain although short lived. And that some would like to die cleanly instead of impacting on others.

 

 

 

Having a lethal injection sounds alot more appealing than blowing your brains out or jumping off a building.

[pureprayer]

It should be illegal. Suicides are bad. Many suicides are stopped because the "death-ee" cant go through with it or changes their mind last minute. Or even doesn't fully kill them self. With assisted suicide you take (or reduce) most of those factors out of the equation.

[bluehooloovo]

I believe, like others on this thread, that assisted suicide should be legalized but heavily regulated. I was reading something the other day about laws in Washington and Oregon (sorry, no link or quote) where it is allowed (or maybe the law was just being discussed and hasn't passed). The guidelines set down for it seemed, to me, to be reasonable. Two different doctors have to certify that the patient has less than 6 months to live, and the patient has to have a statement witnessed by 2 (or maybe 3) people saying that they wish to die. One of the witnesses can not be a relative, an heir, or somebody connected with the medical facility. Also, doctors are allowed to not participate in it, and pharmacists are allowed to refuse to dispense life-ending drugs.

 

 

 

On the topic of the article in the original post, the people involved with the group did break the law, and not just the assisted suicide one. So yes, they should go to jail or pay heavy fines. But if they did not pressure anyone into killing themselves, then I don't think that the necessarily did wrong by helping these people end their lives.

[EdgedThesis]

Suicide booths. Have to slide three electronic prescriptions from three different doctors, fill out a couple forms, press a button, and let the knockout gas and incinerating flames wipe your pain from the Earth.

[XSniperX]

If the person wants to die and is in a fit state to make a decision then it should be allowed