Suicide (Statistics, Philosophy, etc)

[killerbeer0]

I can say that reaching out to people when you're having a crisis is good for you. Some random guy from a game I used to play talked me out of it tonight. Can't say whether that makes me feel good or bad... but I'm still here.

[mmmcannibalism]

What exactly makes suicide immoral? I understand if you have children it will definetely be harmful to them(therefore immoral) but excluding dependant people is their anything wrong with it?

[Deiophobus]

What exactly makes suicide immoral? I understand if you have children it will definetely be harmful to them(therefore immoral) but excluding dependant people is their anything wrong with it?

 

 

 

I think it stems from christian beliefs that it isn't your body to kill, and every life is sacred.

 

It might also be based on our culture, where you are supposed to live your life in ways that pleases others, and always be thinking about other people's happiness and feelings.

[Madmanpur3]

What exactly makes suicide immoral? I understand if you have children it will definetely be harmful to them(therefore immoral) but excluding dependant people is their anything wrong with it?

It could all stem from the big question "what's the meaning/purpose of life?" and in the end I think it's safe to say that most will agree that killing yourself isn't included in that.

[killerbeer0]

What exactly makes suicide immoral? I understand if you have children it will definetely be harmful to them(therefore immoral) but excluding dependant people is their anything wrong with it?

It could all stem from the big question "what's the meaning/purpose of life?" and in the end I think it's safe to say that most will agree that killing yourself isn't included in that.

 

 

 

How can there be purpose for something that is a chemical accident and nothing more?

[Lenticular_J]

An accident has to have a cause.

[raven_gaurd0]

What exactly makes suicide immoral? I understand if you have children it will definetely be harmful to them(therefore immoral) but excluding dependant people is their anything wrong with it?

It could all stem from the big question "what's the meaning/purpose of life?" and in the end I think it's safe to say that most will agree that killing yourself isn't included in that.

 

 

 

How can there be purpose for something that is a chemical accident and nothing more?

 

 

 

I've intended to point this out, but you're pretty emo, mate. At least, that's the vibe I'm getting.

 

 

 

Anywho. Goddess, I admonish that I haven't read the whole thread. I haven't had the time. I've been running ragged the past few days.

 

 

 

I think that America still believes in a degree of sanctity of life, at least of the widely defined Human Being. When somebody is so grieved that killing themselves is a better action than living on, it's morally offensive that A: anything could bring them down to that level, and B: that by violating their own right to life they harm those around them, which, while some people insist isn't the case when a bachelor/ette kills themselves, I have to point out that every human being on earth has social ties in some shape and form which will be painfully cut in the act of suicide.

 

 

 

P.S. I never understood why 'suicide' wasn't 'autocide'. The Latin prefix 'auto' means 'self,' and 'cide' is the Latin suffix for kill. Maybe 'auto' only applies for the body, and not the mind, which I believe that Latin prefix 'sui' more directly addresses?

[mmmcannibalism]

P.S. I never understood why 'suicide' wasn't 'autocide'. The Latin prefix 'auto' means 'self,' and 'cide' is the Latin suffix for kill. Maybe 'auto' only applies for the body, and not the mind, which I believe that Latin prefix 'sui' more directly addresses?

 

 

 

sui also means self correct? Its possible we just chose suicide for the aesthetics, at least I think it sounds better.

[Shinjula]

I personally fully support suicide as a final option. None of us agreed to be born and we are given a way out should we choose to use it so I see nothing wrong with doing so.

 

 

 

To those who believe it selfish consider this, grief from the death of a love one usually takes six months to over come, the average number of close friends a person has is around a dozen, thats a total of six years unhappiness caused by the suicide, compare that to the duration left for the suicidal person in their life. It is not selfish to commit suicide it is selfish to refuse suicide (when genuine), especially as most people are not even looking at the numbers and the cumulative effect, they are in fact only looking at themselves

 

 

 

Its almost (in at least all the cases of people I have spoken to) always just a case of "Your going to make me upset for 6 months and no I dont care that you've been upset for over ten years and look like you will continue to be that way for the rest of your life"

 

 

 

Now which one is really the selfish one?

[l0l0lpur34]

Suicide is a permanent solution to a (most of the time) temporary problem.

[Rien]

Suicide is a permanent solution to a (most of the time) temporary problem.

I think this is probably the case in most incidents. It's truly unfortunate; many suicide victims often struggle with depression/seemingly irremediable problems which could have been treated or otherwise resolved beforehand.

 

 

 

However, it's important to note that not all suicides are committed on an impulse by the irrational. For some--myself included--suicide is viewed merely as an alternative to the monotony of living. It may be that I just don't attach the same meaning and importance to life as do others, but I've certainly never found suicide to be a particularly unappealing choice; it's something I've considered almost everyday for several years. I've long since decided to refrain from killing myself, as my doing so would cause my family a great deal of undeserved grief and essentially wouldn't be worth the price to be paid by everyone I'd leave behind, but I can understand and easily relate as to why a generally apathetic person would decide to commit suicide for no apparent reason to those remaining.

 

 

 

I'll be able, though, to forego the ridiculous indecision faced by many of the terminally ill in taking their own lives should I ever contract a terrible disease or develop cancer. I'd much rather end my life sooner than succumb and die in excruciating pain latter on, so I suppose I can take comfort in the fact that I will not die as a direct result of a terminal illness. :lol:

[D Jay99]

Suicide is a permanent solution to a (most of the time) temporary problem.

I think this is probably the case in most incidents. It's truly unfortunate; many suicide victims often struggle with depression/seemingly irremediable problems which could have been treated or otherwise resolved beforehand.

 

 

 

However, it's important to note that not all suicides are committed on an impulse by the irrational. For some--myself included--suicide is viewed merely as an alternative to the monotony of living. It may be that I just don't attach the same meaning and importance to life as do others, but I've certainly never found suicide to be a particularly unappealing choice; it's something I've considered almost everyday for several years. I've long since decided to refrain from killing myself, as my doing so would cause my family a great deal of undeserved grief and essentially wouldn't be worth the price to be paid by everyone I'd leave behind, but I can understand and easily relate as to why a generally apathetic person would decide to commit suicide for no apparent reason to those remaining.

 

 

 

I'll be able, though, to forego the ridiculous indecision faced by many of the terminally ill in taking their own lives should I ever contract a terrible disease or develop cancer. I'd much rather end my life sooner than succumb and die in excruciating pain latter on, so I suppose I can take comfort in the fact that I will not die as a direct result of a terminal illness. :lol:

 

Wow, that was worded very well. I completely agree with it, I feel that way too. Suicide isn't as bad as people make it out to be in my opinion, but unless you have a really good reason you should first try to solve your problems another way.

[lobsta]

My Dad committed suicide just before christmas by hanging himself in the garage with a choke chain (which I now know, does what it is supposed to) attached to the fixture that holds my boxing bag. Unfortunately my younger sister saw him - so did my mum. I can not understand why he did it, as there was no suicide note (and it was very much out of the blue), but also the way in which he did it. He had a shotgun, he should have gone to some woods somewhere and blown his head off, because the image of seeing a dead parent or loved one is something that will stay with you for the rest of your life (I know someone else would have seen him). But I think this is testament to the irrationality of it - in this case anywhere. My opinion, is that we should not try to think of it too simply. The multiplicity of causations should not be overlooked. Perhaps genetics lead to a greater propensity for suicide in certain individuals. Certainly events in individuals lives can lead to it.

 

 

 

Saying that suicide is not as bad as people say it is - is not correct. Until you get the phone call telling you that a loved one has killed themselves, until you see the emotional harm it causes on others, until you see the coffin that contains the dead body that used to be someone you know and until you wonder why someone chose death over living with you - might be the day that you change your view.

 

 

 

Suicide as an alternative to the monotony of living? - Disgraceful.

[Rien]

'My sincerest condolences. I've never lost a family member or friend to suicide, so I cannot imagine what it must be like.

 

 

 

But, and since you've opened this door yourself, I would say that your father's suicide falls under the "irrational impulse category" I described. Rational, caring people will rarely choose to commit suicide in the knowledge that they will be leaving behind their family and friends in states of confusion and grief. Few will do so despite whatever problems they may be facing; it requires either a very selfish or very unsettled person to do otherwise. I won't pretend to know, but I'll assume that your father was the latter. Those struggling with depression can often appear to be perfectly normal (even to the people closest to them); it's a mask they wear for fear of others mocking their insecurities or self-styled "failings." I suspect that your father may have been clinically depressed and therefore not fully capable of making rational decisions, but, again, I don't know the circumstances.

 

 

 

I have to object to your concluding comment. :|

 

I'm probably misinterpreting the statement, but it seems that you're calling me...disgraceful? Whatever your intent, I can't change the way I am. Life has always seemed dull and wearisome to me. At times, I feel profoundly "alive" and joyous, but, more often than naught, I feel merely tired and languid--the quote in my signature, I believe, will give you the general idea. Some people such as yourself, I daresay, have formed a strong opinion on the matter of suicide based on powerfully negative influences. To people such as myself, however, suicide is just another option to be duly considered at the start of each day. I wouldn't say there is anything wrong or disgraceful about us; we just take a "softer," and, what I'd consider to be a more reasonable and open, stance on the topic than do you.

[killerbeer0]

The past few posts have been very interesting.

 

 

 

I am a person who has gradually come to realize that life isn't the valuable, sacred thing we're taught to believe it is. I am incompatible with human society and see suicide not only as an increasingly attractive solution to my massive depression but also as a defiant withdrawal from the world I have come to hate. I don't know if I'll just go and off myself, but I know I'm going to live however I wish and if something I do kills me, then so be it. I guess it's called a deathwish.

 

 

 

Think. Think long and hard before you call suicide the worst possible choice... Some people have simply realized that there are really very few options in life, even fewer that are at all desirable - these people are bold enough to opt out. Why settle when you can select?

[venomai]

Some people have simply realized that there are really very few options in life, even fewer that are at all desirable

 

You are a youthful and healthy person living in extremely fortunate conditions and a very tolerant society (relatively speaking).

 

 

 

The reality of the situation is that there are many good options and many more good reasons for you (and others like you) to continue living.

 

 

 

Depression can make it difficult to see this, but it must be understood that you will get over it.

[Shinjula]

Some people have simply realized that there are really very few options in life, even fewer that are at all desirable

 

You are a youthful and healthy person living in extremely fortunate conditions and a very tolerant society (relatively speaking).

 

 

 

The reality of the situation is that there are many good options and many more good reasons for you (and others like you) to continue living.

 

 

 

Depression can make it difficult to see this, but it must be understood that you will get over it.

 

How on earth can you know any of that?

[l0l0lpur34]

I suffered from depression for basically around 6 years (extremely severe for the last 2 years of it) and I can tell you there is light at the end of the tunnel, however pointless things may feel.

[Joes_So_Cool]

Thank you for posting the topic, it was interesting and it does have a very good discussion level.

 

 

 

On topic:

 

 

 

I don't personally know anyone who's committed suicide but I have heard a few dumb (to me at least) reasons for committing suicide.

 

1.) Teen breakups.

 

2.) Loosing a job.

 

3.) Loosing a (large) bet.

 

4.) Divorce.

 

5.) Can't keep up with a sibling.

 

 

 

Those are just a few I can think of off the top of my head and I don't think are worth ending my life over. I have experienced 3/5 of those and I have never even considered suicide as an option, or hurting myself for that matter.

 

 

 

I can't see how someone would have the courage to kill themselves. I know for a fact I get preeeety nervous when I even have a knife near my wrist for cutting something for example, never mind working up the balls to cut my own wrists, or hang myself, or any of those "tactics". I'll leave it at this, if I was ever going to kill myself, I'd make sure it was over fast, probably a gunshot to the temple or something. Do you have any idea on what the ways of killing onesself are? Like uhhh.. What percent of teenagers used a gun compared to hanging themselves compared to cutting their wrists?

 

 

 

Again - thanks for the topic, should be a good discussion one which I look forward to following.

[venomai]

Some people have simply realized that there are really very few options in life, even fewer that are at all desirable

 

You are a youthful and healthy person living in extremely fortunate conditions and a very tolerant society (relatively speaking).

 

 

 

The reality of the situation is that there are many good options and many more good reasons for you (and others like you) to continue living.

 

 

 

Depression can make it difficult to see this, but it must be understood that you will get over it.

 

How on earth can you know any of that?

 

A few educated guesses...

 

a) He has regular access to the internet (and, at least for a time, Runescape). This implies that he has enough money and freedom to afford such a luxury.

 

B) He is writing on a Runescape fanboard, and he only recently came to understand his own sexuality. It seems very likely that he is under 30.

 

c) He is living in the 21st century, an extremely tolerant period in time compared to recent history.

 

 

 

Assuming the above assumptions stand true, then he does indeed have many desirable reasons to continue living. People would kill to be in his place.

[venomai]

Those are just a few I can think of off the top of my head and I don't think are worth ending my life over. I have experienced 3/5 of those and I have never even considered suicide as an option, or hurting myself for that matter.

 

Rarely is suicide the result of an individual losing their job. Suicide comes about because the loss of a job and/or a slew of other stressful events triggers in that person a clinical depression.

 

 

 

What percent of teenagers used a gun compared to hanging themselves compared to cutting their wrists?

 

It depends on a number of factors, such as gender, media exposure and availability to firearms.

 

 

 

Canada, 2003[1]

 

Males - 46% use hanging, 20% use firearms, 20% use poisons

 

Females - 42% use poisons, 37% use hanging, 18% use other (including 'slashing' to the wrist)

 

 

 

United States, 2004[2]

 

Males - 56.8% use firearms, 23.4% use hanging/suffocation, 12.5% use poisons

 

Females - 32.4% use firearms, 37.8% use poisons, 19.7% use hanging/suffocation

 

 

 

The more aggressive and more lethal methods used by males seems to account for the higher rate of suicide among males than females.

[killerbeer0]

 

a) He has regular access to the internet (and, at least for a time, Runescape). This implies that he has enough money and freedom to afford such a luxury.

 

My parents struggle to make ends meet now, they try to hide it but I can see it. I pay for my RS subscription myself and the internet access is really only good because my father often works from home and he needs it. My parents unfortunately make too much money for me to get any financial help for attending college (even though they have trouble with money anyway) and for the next few years my internet access will be mostly because it is free it the university I'll be attending (and working my [wagon] off to do so).

 

B) He is writing on a Runescape fanboard, and he only recently came to understand his own sexuality. It seems very likely that he is under 30.

 

You're right, I'm 17

 

c) He is living in the 21st century, an extremely tolerant period in time compared to recent history.

 

It's still a long way from being tolerant of me though...

 

 

 

Assuming the above assumptions stand true, then he does indeed have many desirable reasons to continue living. People would kill to be in his place.

 

 

 

Responses in quote.

[Yes_Its_Ross]

Well I guess if your worst worry is that society won't accept you, then you have a pretty damn good life compared to some people.

[killerbeer0]

Well I guess if your worst worry is that society won't accept you, then you have a pretty damn good life compared to some people.

 

 

 

Yeah, I'll give you that. But you don't fully get it, my secret is killing me... mental pain and self-hatred I can't control makes my life hell. Sure, other people in my economic situation would have a great life.

[Madmanpur3]

Well I guess if your worst worry is that society won't accept you, then you have a pretty damn good life compared to some people.

Yeah, I'll give you that. But you don't fully get it, my secret is killing me... mental pain and self-hatred I can't control makes my life hell. Sure, other people in my economic situation would have a great life.

I guarantee there are people who would gladly accept all of your circumstances, because some people don't care so much about what others think of them to the point where it drives them insane.

 

 

 

It's not like people are gonna kill you if they find out your secret, and if you're afraid of that then you obviously don't want to commit suicide.