Welcome F2P! (To the forums)

[Bini]

Well it's already begun, the Free to Players on the Rants forum posting about how they want Skill Capes for Free Players. As sad as it is I expect more of these topics to come from them.

 

 

 

So you have seen 1 useless thread by F2P'ers, I have seen 2 since they got access to RSOF.

 

 

 

But they have no chance to outnumber the whiny Members that post about how bad it is to let F2P'ers on the forum.

[lorddayu]

This is the first time I can recall that i have jumped into this F2P v. P2P argument, but some of the things that I have been reading on this thread and others lately have left me completely befuddled, but here goes:

 

 

 

I am P2P and have been for a very long time, here's a few things that I have picked up from my experiences:

 

 

 

1. The people that I LEAST want to post on RSOF are the members who are so closed minded that they think F2Pers who have the patience to get 12.5 million exp are spamming whiny twelve year olds who will make the forums worse than the disgustingly bad state it is already in. I am completely in favor of making a level or experience requirement for all players, regardless of paying status to use the forums.

 

2. Only extremely selfish people are upset when F2P gets one of its few updates per year. That is like buying an expensive car with a high tech computer system, 500 horsepower and a jet engine, and then getting upset when Toyota decides to give the Camry like three extra cupholders.

 

3. When F2P thrives, P2P thrives. I'm sure Jagex can attest to that. I know that membership fees generate a vast majority of the company's profits, but pure monetary profit is not the only way to look at it. Everyone's first experience is F2P, the reason that they become members is because F2P is such a good game in itself. Nobody in their right mind puts off getting P2P because they can have teleblock, or they can have adamant arrows, or they can post on the forums. People don't get members because they don't want to pay the money, because they have no means to pay, or because they play enough.

[Racheya]

Well it's already begun, the Free to Players on the Rants forum posting about how they want Skill Capes for Free Players. As sad as it is I expect more of these topics to come from them.

 

To be honest skill capes are not a bad idea for F2P.

 

 

 

Yes, the F2P have a suggestion, lets ignore them and look at constructive P2P posts like... 'omg f2p r spammin us' or 'giv wildy bak'...

[Bini]

I know my wish can't come true but I truly wish that RSOF was more like Tip.it where Moderators had more powers, For example: Abbility to lock threads that already exist and I wish that the users had more freedom like we have here in Tip.it. Here nobody goes free without a punishment if they behave like they do in RSOF. People don't post like that here because they would get so criticised it'd make them cry.

 

 

 

Long live Tip.it Forums, without you there is no forum good enough for me.

 

 

 

 

 

Even if RSOF is like it is, I will continue to read and post there. If Jagex wants my positive and constructive inputs that's what they will get.

[Tim]

Crap. My F2P Account only has 3m Exp. Then again I never worked on it seriously for the past 5 years since I made it.

[mario_sunny]

How funny... the F2pers on the forum now appear to be more mature than the P2pers.

 

 

 

Perhaps this 12.5M exp requirement should extend to members too? :)

[la la la]

How funny... the F2pers on the forum now appear to be more mature than the P2pers.

 

 

 

Perhaps this 12.5M exp requirement should extend to members too? :)

 

That would sound like a great idea if it had been the rule in the first place, but they can't take away posting privileges from those members who do not have 12.5m xp and already commonly post.

[Sir_Kurity]

Good luck f2p, enjoy those forums while your sane, because it will make you insane.

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Well it's already begun, the Free to Players on the Rants forum posting about how they want Skill Capes for Free Players. As sad as it is I expect more of these topics to come from them.

 

...and members have generally agreed to this idea for how many years before F2P showed up to the forums? C'mon, they're just capes. It's not like they're getting Thieving or Agility...

[Racheya]

How funny... the F2pers on the forum now appear to be more mature than the P2pers.

 

 

 

Perhaps this 12.5M exp requirement should extend to members too? :)

 

That would sound like a great idea if it had been the rule in the first place, but they can't take away posting privileges from those members who do not have 12.5m xp and already commonly post.

 

I think it's a good idea in practice to move it onto members too, but you can imagine the [cabbage] storm that would ensue =/

[JAMjE]

12.5m exp

 

I barely got that in P2P lol

 

just get 91 wc + fm :)

[Fey_Warrior]

I feel some users here might be interested in reading a response I posted to a discouraged F2Per, who like many on the forums may have been browbeaten into believing they don't have a place on the forums, and sadly might not use the chance to improve things RuneScape which Jagex wanted them to do.

 

 

 

I'd like to say that isn't the case. The argument that F2P doesn't pay for itself, let alone wouldn't pay it's way handsomely on the RSOF is a misleading one I've attempted to debunk here:

 

* Forum Feedback > Avoid Spam by F2P

 

* Quick find code: 28-29-75-58659538

 

The claim that F2P isn't paying it's way is likely false.

 

 

 

Anyone who reads the business news knows that the channel advertising for Jagex websites is very large source of income for both RuneScape and Fun Orb.

 

 

 

While it used to be Wild Tangent, I'm not sure what the current channel advertiser is now. Who ever has the deal to supply advertising for Jagex's Free-Players is huge news in the online gaming industry news sites. It's no small pennies, and in fact might qualify as big bikkies in the online advertising world.

 

 

 

Free-Players do pay by proxy, when viewing ads on free worlds, which uses their bandwidth and their system resources. While that isn't a significant amount for the end-user, all the users viewing that advertising is enough to pay for the the services used by an estimated 5 Million Free-to-Play users, including the servers, hosting/bandwidth as well as the costs of support staff; and if business articles regarding this are correct, enough to give Jagex a quite tidy profit from running the F2P game too.

 

 

 

Jagex isn't silly, and it would've factored those costs into bringing F2P onto the RuneScape forums as well; so as a Member I simply don't buy the argument that I'm paying for free-users. If anything, in these troubled economic times the Free-to-Play side of RuneScape is set to expand as some Members find that they need to cut costs, which might mean their RuneScape subscription side is the part of the game that isn't growing as usual. The Free-to-Play model is gaining a lot of attention in the MMO industry, which is why a number now are trying to follow in Jagex's footsteps by releasing games using a similar model. So to claim it's actually costing Members money is very likely not the case at all.

 

 

 

So the argument used that Members are paying for services F2P get for 'free' is a disingenuous one in my view (i.e. it's not telling the truth).

 

 

 

This to my mind is why allowing F2P access to the forums isn't in fact taking away from Members.

 

 

 

While I'm not 100% on the details, the fact is that the channel advertising deal with Jagex *is* a substantial one, and in these hard economic times when fewer might be likely to find the money for an online game in increasingly tight budgets, the F2P side of RuneScape could become an even bigger earner for Jagex.

 

 

 

Sadly, there are Members on the forums who don't read the MMO Industry News, and aren't aware of just how valuable the F2P player is to Jagex, and that's more than likely why Jagex has added forum access given Jagex wants to promote and improve it's free game.

 

 

 

Please don't let the short-sightedness of a few disgruntled members, stunt the game, and as a result potentially harm both the growth of F2P and Member games.

[Omali]

Well it's already begun, the Free to Players on the Rants forum posting about how they want Skill Capes for Free Players. As sad as it is I expect more of these topics to come from them.

 

 

 

Jagex brought F2P into the forums partially to get their ideas on what f2p wants/needs, so shut up about f2p making suggestions for content. That's what Jagex wants, suggestions.

[Bally]

I really do not understand why P2P don't like this. They don't loose anything and there are some nice f2p outthere with an nice opinion, that want to get out. Now i only got 9 Mio. XP and that has taken some time to get. I would say 12.5 is enough!

[Weiyao]

Also, not every F2P is actually gonna just train cooking and firemaking to whatever it is you need to get into the forums to spam and get banned etc... So don't think the F2P who do have 12.5mil exp are all spamming noobs.

 

 

 

I happen to agree with a part F2P skillcapes in the way you can wear and take off in F2P but you still have to buy it in P2P first. I don't know but it is a good suggestion and some F2P for x is actually made by members...

[Fey_Warrior]

This is why the RSOF won't get updates given the member response to a recent poll:

 

 

 

* Community > Polls > Poll Archive > Forum Focus (21-Jan-2009)

 

Question 1 -

 

How often do you visit the RuneScape forums?

 

Occasionally 23% (10219 votes)

 

Rarely 20% (9165 votes)

 

 

 

Question 2 -

 

How often do you post on the RuneScape forums?

 

Rarely 30% (13460 votes)

 

I have never posted on the RuneScape forums 25% (11360 votes)

 

Occasionally 21% (9589 votes)

 

 

 

Question 3 -

 

Which of the following RuneScape forums do you visit most often?

 

Any of the marketplace forums 11% (4775 votes)

 

I have never visited the RuneScape forums 10% (4326 votes)

 

 

 

Option to include an image of your in-game character when creating threads 25% (11367 votes)

 

I do not want anything adding to the forums 11% (5109 votes)

 

Ability to adjust formatting of posts (text style and colour) 11% (4929 votes)

 

 

Members with their low, and decreasing forum usage (ever since the GE update), plus their responses to polls like this, have expressed to Jagex they don't want their member dollar being spent on updates for the forums. Yet the complain about the RSOF not being attractive enough and lacking interesting features. So obviously they're giving Jagex contrary messages: they want updates to the forum, but they don't want their membership dollar spent on updating them?

 

 

 

So when Jagex decides it needs to do something about the under-utilisation of the forums, in order to justify giving them more funding, the response is sadly as contradictory.

 

 

 

This is what blows my mind here since it does not make sense to then protest against a measure to increase forum usage, by the way of bringing on board F2P users, who do come with funding:

 

 

 

* http://www.marketwire.com/press-release ... 48054.html

 

Leading industry analyst Wanda Meloni, president of DFC Intelligence, agrees that the advertising dollars will continue to increase in the coming years. "Ad spending in the online PC gaming market is expected to reach more than $600 million by 2010, illustrating the opportunity for game publishers to maximize revenues by incorporating advertising into their business models," Meloni said. "By partnering with the leading properties to provide a single network for advertisers looking to invest in this channel, WildTangent is driving the market forward and creating new revenue streams for the industry."

 

* http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/featu ... 017/?biz=1

 

The last time that Ad Watch discussed WildTangent, it related to the recent deal the company signed with Jagex for RuneScape. Since that time, the number of subscribers has increased to over 1 million and the number of overall users exceeded 10 million. RuneScape has also furthered its lead (in terms of web interest at least) over MMO powerhouses like World of Warcraft and EverQuest according to Google Trends, so clearly the company made a very keen move.

 

* http://www.developmag.com/interviews/20 ... -RuneScape

 

RuneScapes average revenue per paying subscriber, at $5 to $6 per month, suggests annualised sales of some $60m to $66m. In its last available accounts (2006) Jagex reported a pre-tax profit margin of some 61 per cent (£10.2m) making it one of the most profitable independent games companies in the UK.

 

Being the most searched for and visited MMO site on the web (yes, even more than WoW) potentially makes the 'free' game of RuneScape a very large share of that 600 million (USD) spent in the online gaming market. And given Membership fees make a maximum of around 60 to 66 million (USD), there's a definitely potential that as the rated No. 1 MMO the loins share of that 600 million is going to Jagex, making F2Ps contribution likely self-funding if not a net contributor to RuneScape as a whole.

 

 

 

Sadly it seems the message Members are sending to Jagex, is don't want anything but a few crumbs spent on the forums, but in a twisted irony now they don't want anyone else using them either? Crummy huh?

 

 

 

So if these disgruntled Members to either succeed in driving the new F2P users or getting Jagex to remove them, any funding part of a funding pie that may have come with F2P user will evaporate leaving members with their crumbs in tact.

 

 

 

So the result may again be there is little or no development funding allocated to updating them, and the RSOF will wallow as the most underutilised and least updated 'member' features. It's clear example of not wanting something, unless someone else wants it; then when they get it back, they toss it in the corner again :wall:

[Makoto_the_Phoenix]

Fey, as much as I hate to say it, the only message [the majority of immature players] are sending is that Members are spoiled rotten brats who have a superiority complex, and refuse to share their dusty old toy, even if they haven't played with it in the last decade, and they know that the poor kid down the block would appreciate the opportunity to play with it.

 

 

 

That, in and of itself, depresses the hell out of me. I don't understand how a group of players can be so damn immature about this...

 

 

 

I agree that we haven't even really bothered with the forums, which is true - the polls don't lie. A lot of players simply don't use the forums, ironically because of immaturity expressed during updates (especially F2P updates).

 

 

 

I'm going to go over there and post a simple, but clear message - it's time for them to grow up and share. Paying for something means only so much, but if you honestly want to throw it back in someone's face like that, perhaps it's best if they didn't pay at all.

[Stonepilot]

Wow, this is so different then when I was in 3rd grade and RS was in the top ten 'unknown' MMO's.

 

 

 

All I have to say on this update: RSOF is full of noobs. It's the fate of every MMO to evenually grow down- many idiots flock to the game and the better players band together and let no one in. I'm not saying all newbies are idiots- Just that a lot of them are.

 

I think there should be a 5m exp limit for members, too. If they couldn't post there's no [cabbage] storm. ;) Just so that we wouldn't have so much spam on RSOF.

 

Nice update though. 12.5m seems a little too high for F2P players.. I'd get bored after too long.

[Witherslick]

Yay! F2P needed this for years! (im member for 3 years and I always thought high levels should get them)

[awesome400]

i just think its funny because the majority of the people who are saying f2p gtfo our forums grrr have like 10mil or less xp WITH members skill xp included...

[Smithy93]

I can't tell whose who, at least can F2P have like a different color background post than members?

[FooK-A-Ji]

I can't tell whose who, at least can F2P have like a different color background post than members?

 

What relevance does that have? It only furthers the segregation.

[Smithy93]

I can't tell whose who, at least can F2P have like a different color background post than members?

 

What relevance does that have? It only furthers the segregation.

 

Exactly, I can tell the stupid suggestion posts that USUALLY come from the free players wanting what members get.

[FooK-A-Ji]

I can't tell whose who, at least can F2P have like a different color background post than members?

 

What relevance does that have? It only furthers the segregation.

 

Exactly, I can tell the stupid suggestion posts that USUALLY come from the free players wanting what members get.

 

 

 

Stupid suggestions come from both members and nonmembers.

 

 

 

like yours :lol:

[Laxaria]

It is indeed a good move by Jagex to further add to the already badly trolled and populated community of the RSOFs.

 

 

 

Official forums form the backbone for many MMOs, especially games that are quite society-centered. RS is not a very society centered game, seeing as to how strongly it reinforces rules such as filter avoiding or swearing, which is normally more lenient on many other MMOs.

 

 

 

That being said, I am glad to see that Jagex are taking the measures to further include F2Pers into its community and acknowledge that they have their own reasons to remain F2P and not pay. Some F2Pers, like me, and many others, have been around since the game was about 1-2 years old. I do remember classic. I was here during the early stages of RS2.

 

 

 

I think it is about time that F2Pers are not set apart from P2P because they are whiny or trolls or spammy. Just because F2Pers do not pay for the game, does not mean that they are whiny or trolly. Its a common stereotype set because of the many elitist attitudes of P2Pers. I believe it is obvious who such people are.

 

 

 

Anyways, it is nice to see Jagex finally looking into the F2P aspect of the game and focusing on improvements that help it. For the record, many P2P made items, like arrows, bows, maple logs, runes and the like, all have F2P demand. With F2P supply like lobsters, willow logs, yew logs and the like, P2Pers also benefit. If we entirely remove F2P from the game, the economy is likely to collapse. F2Pers contribute a lot the the running of RS, and it is high time they get greater recognition.