A REAL Solution to Price Manipulation

llVIU · June 23, 2009

Price manipulation is legal

no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

n64jive · June 23, 2009

Price manipulation is legal

no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

You just proved his point. No where on that page, or on Jagex's page is their an official statement about Price Manipulation in Runescape. Sorry, but merch clans are doing nothing wrong...as of now

llVIU · June 23, 2009

Price manipulation is legal

no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

You just proved his point. No where on that page, or on Jagex's page is their an official statement about Price Manipulation in Runescape. Sorry, but merch clans are doing nothing wrong...as of now

Price manipulation IS price fixing. That's like saying America is not USA

n64jive · June 23, 2009

Price manipulation is legal

no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

You just proved his point. No where on that page, or on Jagex's page is their an official statement about Price Manipulation in Runescape. Sorry, but merch clans are doing nothing wrong...as of now

Price manipulation IS price fixing. That's like saying America is not USA

either way runescape is runescape, and there are no rules against price fixing/manipulating for the game of RUNESCAPE. (People are so thick)

sadukar123 · June 23, 2009

Price manipulation is legal

no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

You just proved his point. No where on that page, or on Jagex's page is their an official statement about Price Manipulation in Runescape. Sorry, but merch clans are doing nothing wrong...as of now

Price manipulation IS price fixing. That's like saying America is not USA

It's actually cornering the market.

Or this in case of stocks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

bedman · June 23, 2009

I don't think this is a good idea. The power to solve this problem shouldn't be put in more restrictions. The root problem of buy-outs lies in the GE mechanics. THOSE should be changed.

The biggest problem in the GE buy-outs lies, in my opinion, in the fact that the GE updates so slowly. People can hold onto items for days, even weeks, and totally destroy that market. Same goes for when it gets dumped. You don't want a dumped item when it's still high, so you wait.

Imagine a GE that updated every 20 minutes. Now, a buy-out happens. The price [bleep]es, and after 2 hours (6 updates), it reaches a limit and crashes again. After 4 hours, it's as if nothing happened.

Sure, there would still be buy-outs, but I think the influence will be much smaller.

Another thing where the GE is lacking, is of course price freezing, when no item gets sold because it is either under or overpriced. That's why the GE should be based on offers too. I'm not sure how they could implement this, without being susceptible for manipulation (they could drive prices up without even buying items), but I'm sure there could be some sort of system that prevents this more or less.

jonni · June 23, 2009

limiting the GE to a few worlds would be a spammy lagfest that nobody wants or enjoys

So do you have anything to contribute, or a better solution? Or are you just here to troll?

If I was trolling I'd have told you your post was a good idea

llVIU · June 23, 2009

[hide=]

Price manipulation is legal

no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

You just proved his point. No where on that page, or on Jagex's page is their an official statement about Price Manipulation in Runescape. Sorry, but merch clans are doing nothing wrong...as of now

Price manipulation IS price fixing. That's like saying America is not USA

either way runescape is runescape, and there are no rules against price fixing/manipulating for the game of RUNESCAPE. (People are so thick)

[/hide]

Sorry, but that doesn't protect you from the law.

Truth is, merchants are criminals, and if jagex supports merchanting, then what jagex does is a crime, and you can complain in court about it.

Oh and they don't care about the silly little jagex rules or their game.

n64jive · June 23, 2009

^^you're seriously an idiot...

tyluke · June 23, 2009

Great Idea but Lassiez-Faire is still the best (current method)

1. The problem with allowing clans to control the prices is commodities could rise in price significantly. and if several large clans control the bulk of resources, it will choke the economy.

2. No group of clans will always agree because no one will gain money because everyone will be buying and selling at the same time. there needs to be constant buying and selling to keep prices stable. other wise Runescape will have two economic cycles, dumping and launching

Good idea though, but its best not to fix something that isn't broken

lordkafei · June 24, 2009

Price manipulation is legal

no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

You just proved his point. No where on that page, or on Jagex's page is their an official statement about Price Manipulation in Runescape. Sorry, but merch clans are doing nothing wrong...as of now

Price manipulation IS price fixing. That's like saying America is not USA

either way runescape is runescape, and there are no rules against price fixing/manipulating for the game of RUNESCAPE. (People are so thick)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Murder is against the law too, yet Runescape lets you kill guards, other players, etc. ...

And it's illegal in the real world, so therefore we should all be up in arms and demanding Jagex do something about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide

Where are the righteously indignant as far as this is concerned?

:lol:

Keep repeating to yourselves... the GE is not a store... prices can go up or down based on the whims of the market...

Dirkmetal · June 24, 2009

What do you think about removing all caps on the GE, and allowing players to set things at what ever price they want?

All the would remain is a recommenced price based on trades happening, so that could be the only thing that the Scamming clans (merching) could manipulate in this recommended price, which would have very little effect.

It would be extremely hard for RWT to take place do to the anonymity of the GE.

At best a RWT, could do is try and, buy a a rarely traded item for a very high price, but such a trade could cause a red flag to go off.

Ravenkana · June 24, 2009

[hide=]
Price manipulation is legal

no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_fixing

You just proved his point. No where on that page, or on Jagex's page is their an official statement about Price Manipulation in Runescape. Sorry, but merch clans are doing nothing wrong...as of now

Price manipulation IS price fixing. That's like saying America is not USA

either way runescape is runescape, and there are no rules against price fixing/manipulating for the game of RUNESCAPE. (People are so thick)
[/hide]

Sorry, but that doesn't protect you from the law.

Truth is, merchants are criminals, and if jagex supports merchanting, then what jagex does is a crime, and you can complain in court about it.

Oh and they don't care about the silly little jagex rules or their game.

At Rockstar Games HQ:

"You're under arrest, insert President's name here, for murder, gambling, grand theft auto, grand theft, homicide, vehicular homicide, manslaughter, owning a gun without a permit, owning illegal weaponry, encouraging others to break the law, and public nudity."

"Um... but those are games?"

"Sorry, but that doesn't protect you from the law.

Truth is if you support these actions, then what happens in the game is a crime, and you can complain in court about it.

Oh, and the Public Nudity charge occurred this afternoon. When you went out to lunch without your pants. Sorry."

Earth_Poet · June 24, 2009

Dirk, the problem is Jagex won't even consider that, because they put them there to stop RWT. Opening caps does open up opportunity for RWT again. While I don't mind the caps so much, I really hate the price floors and ceilings.

[hide=lordkafei]

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Murder is against the law too, yet Runescape lets you kill guards, other players, etc. ...

And it's illegal in the real world, so therefore we should all be up in arms and demanding Jagex do something about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide

Where are the righteously indignant as far as this is concerned?

:lol:

Keep repeating to yourselves... the GE is not a store... prices can go up or down based on the whims of the market...

[/hide]

There is no murder in the game. All of those guards that you kill...they are codes put there for that very purpose in the game. Same goes in PVP worlds. If you are in pking, you are following exactly what was designed in the game. What happened when Jagex decided against luring though? The built the Ditch of Stupidity to make their point.

I don't follow the relevance to your argument. I'm not sure there is even one. It's just a distraction. "What about...what about thieving?" Is that next?

For those that are saying it's not explicitly written in the rules that it price manipulation is illegal, you're right. It doesn't explicitly say it is legal either. And we've already presented evidence that Jagex doesn't favor price manipulation. So that's one of the things I'm pushing for. I want Jagex to make an official post either way, because this current argument isn't favorable to either side.

[hide=tyluke]

Great Idea but Lassiez-Faire is still the best (current method)

1. The problem with allowing clans to control the prices is commodities could rise in price significantly. and if several large clans control the bulk of resources, it will choke the economy.

2. No group of clans will always agree because no one will gain money because everyone will be buying and selling at the same time. there needs to be constant buying and selling to keep prices stable. other wise Runescape will have two economic cycles, dumping and launching

Good idea though, but its best not to fix something that isn't broken

[/hide]

We must be playing two different games, because everything you point out as a reason not to change is exactly what I'm already seeing in the game. Large clans are buying out bulks of resources. There isn't constant buying and selling, it's constantly getting disrupted, because of constant cycles dumping and launching.

[hide=bedman]

I don't think this is a good idea. The power to solve this problem shouldn't be put in more restrictions. The root problem of buy-outs lies in the GE mechanics. THOSE should be changed.

The biggest problem in the GE buy-outs lies, in my opinion, in the fact that the GE updates so slowly. People can hold onto items for days, even weeks, and totally destroy that market. Same goes for when it gets dumped. You don't want a dumped item when it's still high, so you wait.

Imagine a GE that updated every 20 minutes. Now, a buy-out happens. The price [bleep]es, and after 2 hours (6 updates), it reaches a limit and crashes again. After 4 hours, it's as if nothing happened.

Sure, there would still be buy-outs, but I think the influence will be much smaller.

Another thing where the GE is lacking, is of course price freezing, when no item gets sold because it is either under or overpriced. That's why the GE should be based on offers too. I'm not sure how they could implement this, without being susceptible for manipulation (they could drive prices up without even buying items), but I'm sure there could be some sort of system that prevents this more or less.

[/hide]

I don't see how updating the GE faster will do anything but lower the risk even further for merchant clans and quicken the rate of rises and falls. It'd further disrupt any true value of an item, because it would be harder to tell how much it is with the constant shifts in the graphs.

[hide=xxxgod]

idk if this has been written yet as i dont have the time to scrutinize every single post, but wouldnt eliminating set prices eliminate manipulation? also, they could just have (m)SRP for all items so sellers and buyers have a sort of guideline on how to sell an item, but you dont have to follow those rules? like if someone really wanted 5 prayer pots really bad, they are free to pay 10k for each if they like, rather than pay the SRP of ~6k (i believe).

and the GE can still be here, just no price caps. of course expensive items (1m+) could be set to not be allowed to be sold for an insanely low amount (maybe just keep bottom caps for them) to make it so RWT cannot do their nefarious exchanges

[/hide]

It would help some to lift trade caps, but 1) Jagex wouldn't listen to that idea since they put trade caps in to stop RWT, which only keeping bottoms wouldn't eliminate, and 2) as long as everybody is on a one-world order trading system like GE, the potential for manipulation becomes magnified.

Dirkmetal · June 24, 2009

Oh opps, I forgot the most important part of my idea.

There will still be trade caps on player to player trading, it shall be based on the "recommenced" (market price) of the GE, like it is now with trade caps, but the GE's caps will have been changed.

*edit*

I should proofread before I post instead of; posting > proofreading > editing :?

lordkafei · June 24, 2009

There is no murder in the game. All of those guards that you kill...they are codes put there for that very purpose in the game. Same goes in PVP worlds. If you are in pking, you are following exactly what was designed in the game. What happened when Jagex decided against luring though? The built the Ditch of Stupidity to make their point.

I don't follow the relevance to your argument. I'm not sure there is even one. It's just a distraction. "What about...what about thieving?" Is that next?

The point is: if you are going to pull real-world comparisons (as many in this thread are doing), then you open the door to throw the entire game out to the rubbish heap.

So when people start throwing in Wikipedia links about cornering the market and such being illegal in the real world, those notions deserve to have scorn poured all over them. IT'S NOT THE REAL WORLD. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

Dirkmetal · June 24, 2009

There is no murder in the game. All of those guards that you kill...they are codes put there for that very purpose in the game. Same goes in PVP worlds. If you are in pking, you are following exactly what was designed in the game. What happened when Jagex decided against luring though? The built the Ditch of Stupidity to make their point.

I don't follow the relevance to your argument. I'm not sure there is even one. It's just a distraction. "What about...what about thieving?" Is that next?

The point is: if you are going to pull real-world comparisons (as many in this thread are doing), then you open the door to throw the entire game out to the rubbish heap.

So when people start throwing in Wikipedia links about cornering the market and such being illegal in the real world, those notions deserve to have scorn poured all over them. IT'S NOT THE REAL WORLD. :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

Its wrong in game, because it is a scam, and scamming IS against the rules.

[hide=>_>]I almost started to 'mini-mod'. Stop SPAMMNG!

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