two young boys beaten up. really appalling

[Skull]

Wow what motivates you to ever do something like that, especially at such a young age.

 

They were foster children if I read correctly, you can't put the blame on that entirely, but it could have been a factor. Unless it was the kids who got beat up who were, in which case I have no idea why.

[Zierro]

I don't believe in the an eye for an eye mentality on punishment.

 

 

 

Do you think they would have done it if they knew someone was going to do it back to them?

 

 

 

It would have made no difference. Think about how the murder rate is just as high in states with the death penalty.

 

 

 

That's probably because people would rather die than be in prison. And the death penalty in no way is supposed to teach anyone a lesson - they're going to be dead. That's not to say I disagree with the death penalty. I think some people are better off not on this planet, but that's another story.

 

 

 

And as for it making a difference, it's a tough call. It might or it might not. But the worse the consequence is, the less likely they are to do it. It's just that they probably don't see death as a worse consequence... or that those "death penalty is not a deterrent" statistics were cherrypicked for the sake of the argument, which makes a lot more logical sense than people not caring about their own self-interest. Not to mention, correlation doesn't imply causation.

 

 

 

Ever heard the saying: Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right?

 

 

 

Yeah, and it's stupid. There's nothing wrong with preventing torture.

 

 

 

There's a thing called operant conditioning. Basically, if you do something bad, and suffer a negative consequence for it, you're less likely to do it again. And the same applies for positive behavior and positive consequences - you'll be more likely to do it. It's self-interest. It's the same reason why parents ground their kids for doing something bad. Kids don't like being grounded, so they're less likely to do that action again than if there parents were indifferent to their actions and never punished them. It's in the kid's own self-interest to not do that bad action.

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

just thinking, if someone got there adress and sent it put on the Internet.

[Me_Hate_Libs]

Really it serves as a reminder that when it comes to being terribly cruel to innocent people, the Americans don't have crap on the British. #-o

[fastortoise]

So if any of you got the kid's address, you'd just walk in and punch him in the face? Kick his nose in? Then what? Does that solve any [bleep]ing thing? THINK A LITTLE

[Me_Hate_Libs]

So if any of you got the kid's address, you'd just walk in and punch him in the face? Kick his nose in? Then what? Does that solve any [bleep] thing? THINK A LITTLE

 

 

 

I'd fell better. :

[kingbrooks]

Yeah I thought this was disgusting, but our Justice system is [cabbage]. Personally I would give them 60 years in prison but they'll probably be given a new passport with a nice house and family in a foreign country, maybe 3 years in a juvenile detention center. I hate this country when it comes to crime.

 

 

 

Also theres the serial killer who got what, 15 years for 2 murders? 15 YEARS! god I wanna punch that judge in the face.

[kingbrooks]

I have a feeling those two kids could kick your [wagon], and that's if I blindfolded them and tied two hands behind their backs.

 

 

 

Anyways, why should we care? There are 13 year olds that do it, too. And 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, etc. -year olds that beat kids up all the time. I don't understand the big deal. The kids lived. This isn't gonna cause an uproar where people - do what, exactly? Cut off the fists of everyone until they're judged nice enough to have them?

 

 

 

 

 

These kids got almost beaten to death and raped, they'll most likely suffer from shock and distress for the rest of their lives and I wouldn't be surprised if the one who was knocked out gets a shortened life due to long term injuries. So why should we care? Because every mother in the country won't feel safe leaving their children alone in a park anymore. It appears that the already silly idea of fearing every 14-20 year old has just become 11-20.

[Zierro]

This is why I hate the internet. People trying to be "different" flaunting their extreme(ly arrogant) views in your face, everyone thinking theirs is the golden way, that organized government is evil...

 

 

 

We're all just giving our opinions. If you don't like it, why are you even on the internet to begin with?

 

 

 

By the way, the best aspect about the government is that it's ever-changing and nothing has to be permanent. What's so wrong about making suggestions for how we think we can make it better? That's the whole idea behind a government for the people.

[i_love_burritos]

Only real debatble thing here is how the hell could 10, and 11 year old kids do this.

 

 

 

I'm still asking myself that. Parents were probably cokeheads, or something.

[Giordano]

So if any of you got the kid's address, you'd just walk in and punch him in the face? Kick his nose in? Then what? Does that solve any [bleep] thing? THINK A LITTLE

 

With that logic, nothing really matters then. Unless we invited time travel, we are powerless to create consequences of the past.

 

 

 

But that does bring a interesting point. Justice is a large paradox, while you want to servilely punish the criminal, it really won't do anything to change the crime.

 

 

 

Our taste for justice surpasses our logic. But, what is a logical choice in punishments?

[i_love_burritos]

So if any of you got the kid's address, you'd just walk in and punch him in the face? Kick his nose in? Then what? Does that solve any [bleep] thing? THINK A LITTLE

 

With that logic, nothing really matters then. Unless we invited time travel, we are powerless to create consequences of the past.

 

 

 

But that does bring a interesting point. Justice is a large paradox, while you want to servilely punish the criminal, it really won't do anything to change the crime.

 

 

 

Our taste for justice surpasses our logic. But, what is a logical choice in punishments?

 

 

 

Less of a paradox and more of a dilemma, in my opinion.

[RpgGamer]

It's appalling, yes. But what I don't understand is

 

1) How did a nine year old pick up and then drop a sink on another kid?

 

2) How is an 11 year old the uncle of a 9 year old?

 

3) Why did said 11 year old possess a cell phone? No one under 16 needs a god damn cell phone.

[Erk02]

I too, like to treat whole forums the same way I'd treat a Twitter feed/Facebook status.

[nerdboyxxx]

Life Sucks.

 

 

 

I'm sorry to break the news to you, but I doubt you could stand in front of two young kids and bash their brains in with something like a hammer. Unless you are evil of course...

 

 

 

Personally? They'll die one day. Death is enough, but the fact that they'll live their lives with that horrible memory is enough for me to go to bed every night.

 

 

 

As my PDH teacher says, "suck eggs" :P

[VEGHATERMEATLOVER]

It's appalling, yes. But what I don't understand is

 

1) How did a nine year old pick up and then drop a sink on another kid?

 

2) How is an 11 year old the uncle of a 9 year old?

 

3) Why did said 11 year old possess a cell phone? No one under 16 needs a god damn cell phone.

 

erm... all 11 year olds have a cellphone nowdays. eight year old sister has a cellphone and my five year old brother had one at some point. the reason they have cell phones is incase of dillema's like that.

[assassin_696]

For a start, this kind of thing doesn't happen every day. Reading the details of the case what those boys did to the others boys is uncommon and made me deeply sick. Secondly, as repulsive as what they did is punishing the boys does little to address the problem. Their mother was a cannabis addict and their father a violent alcoholic who would make them fight each other for entertainment, if they didn't he'd beat them. They were never fed or washed and instead would have to scavenge the streets for food. Do you honestly think boys of that age would do what they did if they didn't come from one hell of a broken home?

 

 

 

They'll be sent to prison for long enough that they'll lose their childhood, whatever was left of it. Hopefully with enough counselling and care they might begin to be reformed, but it might not be possible. Asking for violent retribution is childish and doesn't make you any better than the children themselves. The problem doesn't lie with isolated feral children, it lies with a society that allows families and communities to get into such a state. The children were notorious where they lived, but police were largely indifferent before this case (they'd previously almost murdered another child) and social workers clearly hadn't done enough to help them.

[Zierro]

Asking for violent retribution is childish and doesn't make you any better than the children themselves.

 

 

 

The children that beat those kids up are guilty. The kids that got beaten up were innocent. There is clearly a difference.

 

 

 

The problem doesn't lie with isolated feral children, it lies with a society that allows families and communities to get into such a state.

 

 

 

That just sounds like a big excuse to me. Just because you had a bad life does not serve as a justification in the least.

[kingbrooks]

Yeah I thought this was disgusting, but our Justice system is [cabbage]. Personally I would give them 60 years in prison but they'll probably be given a new passport with a nice house and family in a foreign country, maybe 3 years in a juvenile detention center. I hate this country when it comes to crime.

 

 

 

Also theres the serial killer who got what, 15 years for 2 murders? 15 YEARS! god I wanna punch that judge in the face.

 

I thought the kids didn't die?

 

 

 

And, wow, you're [bleep] kidding me. This is why I hate the internet. People trying to be "different" flaunting their extreme(ly arrogant) views in your face, everyone thinking theirs is the golden way, that organized government is evil...

 

 

 

And do you know how long 15 years is? Because it seems like everyone in these threads doesn't.

 

 

 

 

 

They didn't die, I was referring to another case on BBC news at the minute that shows the failure of our justice system.

 

 

 

And yes I do know that 15 years is a long time, longer than I have lived, but I also know that the man who was killed had about 45 years left to live (presuming he dies around the life expectancy) and that was not including the other murders he committed, plus the effects this will give to his family and friends.

[kingbrooks]

Life Sucks.

 

 

 

I'm sorry to break the news to you, but I doubt you could stand in front of two young kids and bash their brains in with something like a hammer. Unless you are evil of course...

 

 

 

Personally? They'll die one day. Death is enough, but the fact that they'll live their lives with that horrible memory is enough for me to go to bed every night.

 

 

 

As my PDH teacher says, "suck eggs" :P

 

I honestly doubt they regret what they did, if they did they wouldn't have done it a second time (they committed the same thing the previous week and were meant to be in custody at this time)

[XxTearGodxX]

It's people like that I want to hit with the hammer of Thor and send their [wagon] flying into oblivion.

[RpgGamer]

It's appalling, yes. But what I don't understand is

 

1) How did a nine year old pick up and then drop a sink on another kid?

 

2) How is an 11 year old the uncle of a 9 year old?

 

3) Why did said 11 year old possess a cell phone? No one under 16 needs a god damn cell phone.

 

erm... all 11 year olds have a cellphone nowdays. eight year old sister has a cellphone and my five year old brother had one at some point. the reason they have cell phones is incase of dillema's like that.

 

 

 

And look how much it helped them. :roll: .

 

I will never understand why anyone under 16 would need a cell phone. 14 and 15 are pushing it, but anything under that is completely unnesesary. It's a huge waste of money, and all of that communication is going to do is lead to situations like this. Communication causes conflict. I don't even now where to begin explaining how wrong it is when a pre-teen discovers texting...

[meol]

Asking for violent retribution is childish and doesn't make you any better than the children themselves.

 

 

 

The children that beat those kids up are guilty. The kids that got beaten up were innocent. There is clearly a difference.

 

 

 

The problem doesn't lie with isolated feral children, it lies with a society that allows families and communities to get into such a state.

 

That just sounds like a big excuse to me. Just because you had a bad life does not serve as a justification in the least.

 

It's not a justification. Nobody is saying "forget about the kids, for they had a bad childhood". But physically harming them (just like torturing torturers) won't prevent that from happening again and it won't solve the original problem that caused violence in the first place. There is a difference between revenge and justice. This kind of aggression is a symptom of something bigger, and the kids need serious counselling, not a beating up.

[Zierro]

It's not a justification.

 

 

 

Then excuses shouldn't be brought up in the first place. Whether someone's wife divorced them and took their money or if their dog crapped on the floor, nothing excuses committing that crime. It's entirely irrelevant. It comes down to the person consciously choosing to commit a crime, not things "leading" them to do it.

 

 

 

There are plenty of people that have been in the same situations and yet they have not felt the need to commit atrocities like this. What does that tell us? It doesn't come down to the things that "lead" you to do it. In the end, it comes down to the person.

 

 

 

PS: I noticed I quoted the wrong thing from Assassin. I meant to quote how he said the parents were drug addicts. My bad.

[Returned3]

"...one had a sink dropped on his head..."

 

I personally would have used a toilet.

 

 

 

That is a terrible idea. According to HL2: Deathmatch, a toilet flying towards one is an instant death.

 

 

 

To be honest, I'm really more surprised that a 10 and 11 year old could pull this off. Now I'm not the strongest person here, but I do believe that I'd be able to escape after shoving them away. The 11 year old victim should've been able to fight them off.

 

 

 

And I do agree that giving children under 14 cellphones (Or handphones as we call it in Singapore) is pushing it. Most of the time all they do is stay up late and text each other about useless stuff. Call me anti-social if you want, but the only time I turn my cell on is before/after school and when I go out with my friends. Most of the time it's turned off.