The Hegemony (12th Feb = 2018, Part 2)

[Wisp]

Well eventually I have some plans to help limit that even further. Well, one good thing is subs are pretty much immune to icbm's.

[archimage_a]

Note to self, figure out a way to destroy subs if attacking Doom...

Frankly why I would is beyond me but still.

ICBM Depth Charges?

Orbital Sonar?

No, got it, Massive Orbital X-Ray Cannon...It can scan, it can incinerate, its the new wonder tool from JML!

 

 

Going to bed:

[Retech]

Well, if I'm allowed to, I gift my fleet to Doom. Probaly won't be of much use in the new world, but might be useful.

[archimage_a]

It probably got destroyed by the RFGs and the remainder was sent to Indonesia.

[Retech]

It probably got destroyed by the RFGs and the remainder was sent to Indonesia.

 

Not the subs :P

[archimage_a]

It probably got destroyed by the RFGs and the remainder was sent to Indonesia.

 

Not the subs :P

 

:rolleyes:

[Nero]

You know a place which from you launch spacecrafts and satelites (is there even a word for it?), I'm building a heaviley protected one.

I have zero interest in space with this game. We did that last game enough.

[Guest Mrmegakirby]

Yeah, I'll play again... I think I'll take south africa, assumung the map is to date.

 

Orginising things now, i'll come up with a full post in a bit.

[ThurinEthir]

Hegemony is one of my vocab words for English. I laughed. People stared. I laughed some more.

That is all. (the staring might also have been due to me yelling "PETER WIGGINNNNNN," and coincidentally, I'm reading Shadow of the Hegemon now...)

[Nero]

Good book.

[Earth]

wait... is hegenomy a real life word, not a name? if so.. its defenition?

[The_Mather1]

We are doing a hegemony here, it's somewhere in the line of domination.

[Earth]

ohh... hm. i could look it up. but later. dungeoneering FTW!~

[Nero]

wait... is hegenomy a real life word, not a name? if so.. its defenition?

Hegemony (Greek: ἡγεμονία hēgemonía, English: [uK] /hɨˈɡɛməni/, [uS]: pronounced /hɨˈdʒɛməni/; "leadership" or "hegemon" for "leader") [1] is the political, economic, ideological or cultural power exerted by a dominant group over other groups, regardless of the explicit consent of the latter. While initially referring to the political dominance of certain ancient Greek city-states over their neighbors, the term has come to be used in a variety of other contexts, in particular Marxist philosopher Antonio Gramsci's theory of cultural hegemony.

[Earth]

thanks for the info.

[archimage_a]

Course this game was never really about Hegemony, it was about Multi-Polarity...everyone would be powerful and thus when they fought there would be sparks and explosions and cool stuff...that doesn't really happen in a Hegemony...In a hegemony everyone cowers while someone presses a button to release bombs from an unshoot-downable plane...

[Retech]

I think that the ICBMs were more of an example of that, since people really had no idea that I was at a point where I was going to use the anthrax. Miscommunication I guess.

[archimage_a]

I think it was more a case of people being stupid...since Japan losing Indonesia, which it hadn't lost at the time, to a foreign power that didn't want it, after the crisis had finished, and the national cake was being divided up, decided to launch genocidal weapons.

Rocco, comparatively, launched weapons which, yes they killed lots of people, but were not actually genocidal...or particually effective, since your own estimate places them at setting you back 10 years at most...My, somewhat less generous, assessment stated that you would have to pull back for a while while you rebuilt... Which was fairly reasonable, since France did not start another war just WW1, or experiance glorious periods of renewed economic strength, which was probably on a similar scale to this conflict...

 

In any case the main problem here was people building insane sized armies, fleets and what have you...Example, Japanese Fleet of 600 ships... America, at the height of stupidity, suggested a 600 ship navy...Great Britian NEVER contemplated a 600 ship navy...They balked at the proposal to build 4 ships instead of 2, per year, when Germany was building 4 per year(Though GB eventually hit back with some 15 ships over 2 years, massively overwhelming the German production capacity(See 1909 Naval Scare)....So the prospect of turning 119 ships into 600(or 400, even) was ridiculous to start with...

As, of course, was the prospect of annexing nations in 5 years...

 

I think the main main issue is that there are no defined rules, outside of the silly 1% rule, which renders the game completely unrealistic... Britian had a budget of £25 Billion(400 million at the time) in 1909, so by our rules would not have been able to pass 'People's Budget' of a 40 million spending on the aforementioned ships, nor the mere 7 million on giving people a pension...

Not only that but when they did pass these changes they had to cut funding to other areas and increase taxation...So the prospect of having a spare 28 Billion a year, or whatever, is ludicrous at the best of times.

 

Thus if a proper version of Hegemony was ever going to be put forward, which didn't break down into uber technology and ridiculous project building, then clear rules would need to be established which everyone could agree on...

 

http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf

 

 

Anywho, my main main main point is that when people throw their weight around things are, innevitably, going to get knocked over...unless we are going to nerf just about everything...

[The_Mather1]

[spoiler='Income]

Population

70 000 000

 

Avarage income

$125 000

 

Tax level

45 %

 

Tax income

$3 937 500 000 000

 

Spendable

$39 375 000 000

 

 

[Retech]

I think it was more a case of people being stupid...since Japan losing Indonesia, which it hadn't lost at the time, to a foreign power that didn't want it, after the crisis had finished, and the national cake was being divided up, decided to launch genocidal weapons.

Rocco, comparatively, launched weapons which, yes they killed lots of people, but were not actually genocidal...or particually effective, since your own estimate places them at setting you back 10 years at most...My, somewhat less generous, assessment stated that you would have to pull back for a while while you rebuilt... Which was fairly reasonable, since France did not start another war just WW1, or experiance glorious periods of renewed economic strength, which was probably on a similar scale to this conflict...

 

In any case the main problem here was people building insane sized armies, fleets and what have you...Example, Japanese Fleet of 600 ships... America, at the height of stupidity, suggested a 600 ship navy...Great Britian NEVER contemplated a 600 ship navy...They balked at the proposal to build 4 ships instead of 2, per year, when Germany was building 4 per year(Though GB eventually hit back with some 15 ships over 2 years, massively overwhelming the German production capacity(See 1909 Naval Scare)....So the prospect of turning 119 ships into 600(or 400, even) was ridiculous to start with...

As, of course, was the prospect of annexing nations in 5 years...

 

I think the main main issue is that there are no defined rules, outside of the silly 1% rule, which renders the game completely unrealistic... Britian had a budget of £25 Billion(400 million at the time) in 1909, so by our rules would not have been able to pass 'People's Budget' of a 40 million spending on the aforementioned ships, nor the mere 7 million on giving people a pension...

Not only that but when they did pass these changes they had to cut funding to other areas and increase taxation...So the prospect of having a spare 28 Billion a year, or whatever, is ludicrous at the best of times.

 

Thus if a proper version of Hegemony was ever going to be put forward, which didn't break down into uber technology and ridiculous project building, then clear rules would need to be established which everyone could agree on...

 

http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp99/rp99-111.pdf

 

 

Anywho, my main main main point is that when people throw their weight around things are, innevitably, going to get knocked over...unless we are going to nerf just about everything...

 

Well I wasn't exactly going to let Turkey go unpunished for setting me back at all. I'm sure France would have retaliated against Germany (they did, that's why it was a war), and I just happened to have no access to Turkey via the Suez Canal (Big carriers stuffing through small canal isn't that good). So I figured that if he was going to launch more ICBMs, then I was just going to strike once and get it over with. Just so everyone knows my view point, I'd rather have both people get wtfpwned than having me set back the way Archi was describing, since pulling back (I was already pulling back) was not an option.

 

Besides, my navy was pretty unsustainable even at the GDP level I was at, since lots of my military budget (I'd say 80%) was going to my navy. Then when you calculated that report about Italy successfully invading Indonesia, despite encountering naval patrols twice as large as their fleet, I was just thinking "Okay, I'm going to lose out either way on this war, so I might as well get them back too, so that there's a price to pay, rather than just fighting a conventional war where Italy isn't being blamed for invading a country that I control, but Japan was being blamed for invading a country to win it back.

 

It's like the Germans in world war 2 saying that the allies should not try to take back France, because it would cause more civilian casualties.

 

 

 

Oh yes, for the 1% system thing, do you suggest a 0.1% thing? If we have spreadsheets, then that would be very easily exploitable. For example, Japan had a trillion dollar surplus the first time the spreadsheet was going through, and ya had to add things to the budget to take it down. :P

[archimage_a]

Just so everyone knows my view point, I'd rather have both people get wtfpwned than having me set back the way Archi was describing, since pulling back (I was already pulling back) was not an option.

You were not already pulling back, you had decided that your empire was going to exist, regardless of what people would have realistically though about such an empire existing...

 

Besides, my navy was pretty unsustainable even at the GDP level I was at, since lots of my military budget (I'd say 80%) was going to my navy

Means absolutely nothing....Its like saying 3/5ths of all thingums is cheese...Your 'Military Budget' didn't exist so saying 80% went on the navy is meaningless...

 

Then when you calculated that report about Italy successfully invading Indonesia, despite encountering naval patrols twice as large as their fleet

As explained at the time, your fleets were around 160 miles apart, with a 50 mile radar...So 80 miles out of every 480 were unpatrolled for around 8 hours at a time...

Also having 90 patrols twice the size of another countries fleet is unrealistic in of its self...

 

Oh yes, for the 1% system thing, do you suggest a 0.1% thing? If we have spreadsheets, then that would be very easily exploitable. For example, Japan had a trillion dollar surplus the first time the spreadsheet was going through, and ya had to add things to the budget to take it down

...It was the first draft of an idea... Far more reasonable that we had a realistic system where everything you tried to do involved raising taxes or something...

[Retech]

Just a quick post, since what was done was done (or rather, not done).

 

 

-Rocco

 

Huh?

 

-Archi

 

That was my definition of pulling back: staying in Asia.

 

Third thing: It doesn't mean that the ships weren't going to go to the site of the battle when the patrol was destroyed. Generally an invasion isn't something that's overlooked.

 

 

 

 

Anyways, the post was from my perspective at the time, and even if I accept something, I'm often too stubborn to actually totally accept it, if that makes any sense.

[Nero]

Anyways ty for killing the game Arch =D>

[archimage_a]

Anyways ty for killing the game Arch

 

No one forced you to play Sere's version, and nothing stops you creating your own...

 

Actually Dusty is probably right, I have stood in the way of far too many schemes for the game to work...The game is usually driven forwards by people being totally outrageous, screaming alot, then everyone accepting their own compromise...Leading, innevitably, to nations which were simultanously rich and poor, spent heavily on military and socially, focusing both of air and land and sea and space, while being completely uncompetitive in all fields, before eventually announcing that they have being building a super star destroyer for the last 2 years and are now producing twenty a year...And of course with billions of invisible troops stationed across the entire globle and a comfortable majority of 110%.

 

Reminds me of a conversation I was having the other day when I and a friend saw people mopping a carpet...naturally this seemed odd to us, and thus my friend suggested that perhaps it would be of benefit(I often have a very fluted way of speaking, especially when being sardonic) if someone was to invent some kind of device for sucking dirt out of the fibres of the carpet, on which point I observed that they happened to be leaning on thier mops and talking, thus some sort of device that sucked the dirt from the fibres of the carpet would be of the upmost detriment, since then they could not lean, nor could they hear each other, and indeed, if such a device were to be in operation then only one fellow should need to be present for the preceedings. Far better, I ventured, that some kind of brush, with a long handle, could thus be created, which would innevitably lead to less wet carpets, while maintaining the slovanly workload so endering to those of the lower orders. Upon which point my friend retorted that then others of the lower orders could not discuss the moisture of the carpets, which I furthered as a most worthwhile venture when considering the difficulties of the lower classes in petite talk, indeed that I had oft observed one noting the wetness of the carpet by the sound that it made, then bending down to feel the carpet, drawing comment of his or her peers, which began the most illuminating of discussions. My friend agreed that it was most gratifying to watch such conversations being carried out, and thus that our foolishness at expressing surprise of the mopping of the carpets must, indeed, have come from out public school upbringing(Private school for the American's amongst us).

I agreed and suggested that I had heared papa talking of a new device for just such occassion being developed across the pond, to which my friend inquired as to the nature, which I responded that I did not know thusly, though papa had said that it was called a 'Sprinkler', and it would protrude from the ground so as to project water in a radius of variable sizes. My friend nodded thusly and said that she knew of such a device and had seen it exhibited at royal ascot, to which the Prince of Wales had shown most frightful interest in its nature of erupting with water whenever anyone passed within its range.

At which point we just giggled for some minutes, waiting for the other to turn up so that we could start work on the assignment we needed to write.

 

(Clarification on the above:

I am not, and hopefully never shall be, a member of the upper classes, it was purely fiction we were spouting, created by the seeming insanity of two people mopping a carpet)

[Retech]

Ummmm, what?

 

Good night everyone. :)