Biological weapons, total war with genocide, two moderators with different views, munchkinism, errrr...can't think of anything else, but there's definitely more.

 

I guess the major flaw would be that no one here present would ever make it to controlling a county....Realism took a major whack there, possible exception og Dusty in a peaceful mood.

 

Anyway, Bio weapons are fine, as long as the users don't act like berks.

Total war with genocide is what makes the game fun.

Two moderators is a mjaor flaw...Sere is just too weak willed, all you lot have to do is scream how unfair it is that things didn't go exactly according to plan and he changes things... <_<

Munchkinism is perfectly fine....the only problem is that some people(Retech) don't know how to win....Generally speaking you win by crushing your enemies, not by destroying the planet, yourself and your enemies in a blaze of super glory which means no one actually won, but you managed to kill the most people..

Like saying the Nazis won World War Two....

 

 

Switzerland begins work on the Intra-Sphere.

Biological weapons, total war with genocide, two moderators with different views, munchkinism, errrr...can't think of anything else, but there's definitely more.

 

I guess the major flaw would be that no one here present would ever make it to controlling a county....Realism took a major whack there, possible exception og Dusty in a peaceful mood.

 

Anyway, Bio weapons are fine, as long as the users don't act like berks.

Total war with genocide is what makes the game fun.

Two moderators is a mjaor flaw...Sere is just too weak willed, all you lot have to do is scream how unfair it is that things didn't go exactly according to plan and he changes things... <_<

Munchkinism is perfectly fine....the only problem is that some people(Retech) don't know how to win....Generally speaking you win by crushing your enemies, not by destroying the planet, yourself and your enemies in a blaze of super glory which means no one actually won, but you managed to kill the most people..

Like saying the Nazis won World War Two....

 

 

Switzerland begins work on the Intra-Sphere.

 

I'd just like to remind you that I wasn't trying to kill everyone, and I wasn't trying to win. I'm just so munchkin that I refused to let the people that attacked me gain anything from the attack. I was saving up that project for the day when I'd feel like I couldn't do anything to retaliate, so it was better to wipe them off the board than lose territory, especially when they weren't exactly using conventional warfare themselves.

*sigh*

 

This is what happens when I'm not the evil arch enemy of everyone in the thread. You guys picked Japan to be yours then Retech flipped out and virus-bombed the planet.

 

Idk why I bothered to play (relatively) peacefully. -.-

Don't worry, we'll always remember you as the true arch nemesis in hegemony.

Ah yes, I remember it well

'Sir, we have lost Paris'

'Deploy the nukes'

'Sir?'

'Deploy them'

'But sir, the French people!'

'I am not letting Aether profit from their invasion!'

'But the mod said we would get them back in 5 years'

'NUKE THEM'

'Sir I must object;

'Right where is the button?'

'Sir!'

'Are you still here? Good, go to the nearest prison and get me a psychopath, I need a new minister of war...all of you standing around telling me what I can't do, how about some action!'

[spoiler='Income]Population

62 000 000

 

Avarage income

$125 000

 

Tax level

45 %

 

Tax income

$3 487 500 000 000

 

Spendable

$34 875 000 000

 

 

 

Project Virtual mass is now done, several large cannisters of oxygen, a drilling platform and a lot of CO2 is being stored on a large external harddrive and it and the equipment to turn it back into mass is being requested to be allowed to Mars.

Failing orders from Sere I am going to say:

Hesienburg Uncertainty Principle

As well as the fact that, assuming you had 3 settings, rather than 2, so that each proton, neutron and electron were a single bit. (And no other information was stored)

Then you would have 6.*10 to the 23

Or

600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 bits per mole of material. Saying this was Carbon, that would be 12 grams.

Now, in bytes thats 75,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Or 75 zettabytes..

Or

75,000,000,000 Terrabytes

 

 

 

Not to mention, the fastest current technology can transfer information is 14 Terrabytes per second... With a perfect connection.

http://www.ntt.co.jp/news/news06e/0609/060929a.html

 

Which means it will take 5,357,142,858 seconds

Or

169.8 Years....

 

Though since you are storing this on an external hard-drive(presumably the size of the moon...) this is not too much of a concern.

 

That is transfering 1 mole...not even 100 grams of most materials.

 

 

So, I will say again, failing instructions to the contray, this technology is unfeasible...even given the highly generous 1 bit per sub atomic particle, with no location, spin or other information stored, it is entirely unfeasible...so with all of that, it would be even less feasible still.

 

 

Sorry Mather, isn't happening.

Why the hell can't you complain when I start the research, next time I won't care a [cabbage] aboutr what you say about something fininshed.

 

 

Scandinavia starts researching a way to store matter in a dematerialized state, allowing for recreating the matter in question faultlessly. 20 years.

Because you don't tell me at the beginning...Or you drop it in in the middle of a massive argument with me or someone else.

Also you do have some responsibility yo work these things out for yourself...Its relatively obvouis that Underwater Cities were going to cost more than 5 Billion and the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle was thrown around alot in the last game, it is just a catch-all anti-transporter technology saying...So you could be pretty sure that you were not going to get away with either of them without some maths to back you up...

 

It might possibly be able to discover away to beam a couple of atoms at a time...But anything beyond that would require a moon sized computer....

 

Hehe, well maybe not moonsized, but a flashdrive(by whenever it is now) should be about 1 Terrabyte.

http://www.techradar.com/news/computing-components/upgrades/how-to-fit-1tb-of-data-on-one-tiny-thumbdrive-153126

So 75,000,000,000 of them for a mole of whatever...

How fast could you write them?

http://jjap.ipap.jp/link?JJAP/41/1650/

According to this 1000 GB per second

So it would be 1 Terabyte per second...so you are still talking about 75,000,000,000 or 2,378 years

 

 

Supposing you had some sort of controlling system which split the data down into packets and sent them to the individual hard-drives, then you could store the whole lot in a second, but thats not including time to catalogue the files into packets...a packet needs 160 bytes to be written to it, and would take some 1 picosecond per packet, if all the packets were exactly 1 TB(-160 bytes for write space) in size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_(information_technology)#Example:_IP_packets

If this would take just 0.075 seconds to catagorise, and then, if you had 75,000,000,000 seperate connections, the information could be stored in about a second.

 

The problem is that all this data would be stored in 75,000,000,000 seperate blocks, which would all need to be read by 1 machine so they could be reconstituted as a single mass, not 75,000,000,000 blocks of carbon atoms(Which is what this calculation is for, let me remind you, 12 grams of carbon, without any data about each subatomic particle).

So you are in pretty much the same position as you were before, it will take 2,378 years to read all the data and reconstitute it.

 

The only real way round this would be to have 75,000,000,000 seperate systems for reconstituting the mole at the other end, all working in tandem. Which would mean the whole thing would need to be put into some sort of stasis to make sure the atoms, nay, electrons, or even quarks, from going walkabouts, which would completely destablise the object. If there was some way to overcome that then you could do it.

 

Safety would be another concern, since a single speck of dust or fault in the wiring or burn out or whatever could destroy a number of atoms, or even corrupt the entire store, if it turned out to be one of the 160 bytes...

 

 

All of this in the face of E=MC2

So 12 grams(of carbon) would be 1,078,506,214,484,181,168 Joules or 1 Trillion(long scale), 1 Quintillion(Short scale)...1 exajoule or, 1,000,000 Tera Joules- 62,500 times Earth's current generational capacity...

(Energy of the Sun)100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

(Energy required for 12 grams of carbon)1,000,506,214,484,181,168

So, if you harnessed the full power of the sun you could transfer 399,797,616.65 12 grams or 4,797,571,400 grams, 4,787 Tonnes(of carbon)....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_platform#Particularly_large_examples

The largest oil driving platform, in the world, weights 1.2 Million Tonnes...Even if the platform you wanted to send was tiny by comparison...a mere 1% of the size, that would still be 12,000 Tonnes(and composed entirely out of carbon, other atoms would be heavier or lighter). Even harnessing the full power of the sun you could not generate the energy to convert the platform.

 

 

So, assuming you built a 75,000,000,000 emitter system, encased the sun and used the energy(Since it is beyond conventional capacity) to turn the 12 grams of carbon into energy(Or skipped this bit and used a carbon sample on record, since it would be easier) filed that into your 75,000,000,000 hard drive system, prayed for no corrupted files, transported your small moon of hardrives to Mars, built another 75,000,000,000 emitter system, hooked into the sun system again, converted the energy back into the 12 grams of carbon.....

In total you have probably wasted a couple of quadtrillion dollars in building the two 75,000,000,000 emitter system, and have definately wasted a hell of alot of energy.

 

If you had some sort of limitless power source, along with a nice fast 1(or 14, it doens't make a huge difference at this point) terrabyte cable and a pre-existing emitter system, you could transport humans from one side of the planet to the other, in just 8 seconds(time taken for light to travel halfway round the world)....

But since you don't have a limitless power source, and current game logic indicates you never will, as well as pre-existing emitter system not existing....You are pretty stuffed on that front.

 

So realistically speaking, you are gonna be limited to a couple of atoms at a time for the foreseeable future.

 

If Doom does't blow my head off for ignoring the Hesienburg Uncertainty Principle...or I ignored the fact that I said protons, neutrons and electrons, then proceeded to work from the number of atoms, with no referance to the number of protons, neutrons or electrons....or, for that matter, the lack of any locational information. Guess I didn't want to labour the point that your technology is unfeasible in the extreme.

For the program to transform the data into pockets the right size for the drives then send it there, WinRAR would work.

Also the Heinsenberg uncertainty principle is just something Heisenberg threw at Einstein to mock one of his theories about how gravity affects time I think, it's not really any closer to be proven valid than ascention.

 

But beaming allowed you say...

 

SIRO TEMP starts a project to make it possible to make out what quarks and electrons are made of.

I have a theory that all matter may be constructed out of photons (since they're so small we are unable to actually detect them, they might actually be the smallest kind of particle and maybe the fundamental building block of all else).

Completely unproven and purely speculative theory.

 

You aren't building atoms out of light any time soon, and the energy required to do so if it were possible would likely be enormous.

The Texan government has formed (or rather, re-formed) the House of Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC). It invokes a McCarthyist policy and goes after Socialists.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_jD8DwsMz4

 

"Ladies and Gentlemen, God is on our side!"

Completely unproven and purely speculative theory.

 

You aren't building atoms out of light any time soon, and the energy required to do so if it were possible would likely be enormous.

That is why I am researching it at the moment, if it proves to be "true" then I'll open up new possibillities for travell, imagine a devide which, when pointed at another and turned on, uses some sort of directional EM-field to destabilize you, turning you into some sort of light (vissible or not) and sends you through a EM tube that keeps you contained in that sub-atomic state until you are released in the other device where your light will restabilize into matter.

 

Only one will need power, seeing how the other only recieves the EM tube and ends it, though that ammount of power no one here will be able to determine through math, not even Archi.

But it wont prove true because testing it would be so ludicrously difficult that it is near impossible, let alone unfeasible.

 

And I have no idea the amount of power it would use, but I would estimate somewhere between "Too much" and "Holy [bleep]". Destabilising a person into light? Oh please.

 

Next!

I say we let the dice decide as there is no way of proving wether it's right or wrong, after all dice ain't biased (unless Earth rolls as his dice loved me).

For the program to transform the data into pockets the right size for the drives then send it there, WinRAR would work.

I thought about that, and spent about 20 minutes finding out how wrong I was... Basically for you to do that you would need to A) Store all the information first...so you still have the 75,000,000,000 second problem there.

Second, you would need to compress it, which would take some years...supposing you compressed at 1 Terrabyte per second it would take 2,378 years, on top of the 2,378 to store all the information in the first place. So we are up to 4,756 years...

The compression size would also factor quite highly. For instance:

 

(This is using the system that each time you take 2 numbers and create a new number to represent them...So:

400200

123

12

1

(Notice how even when a number exists on its own it still has to be counted? I forgot that, so these numbers are actually somewhat smaller than they should be...)

 

Another system would be to use 1 number to represent 2 digits, then 4 digits, then 8 digits...Which is basically 2^2, 4^4, 16^16, 256^256, Err^Err because Excel is not as robust as the calculator....But both systems grow extremely fast...though this system would actually be quicker, I am writing this as an after though, and the fact that it would take 2378 years, regardless, means it would take 4756 days...13 years...real time for the compression to begin... Thus is not really important)

 

If you have something, which in binary equals 1000 bits, you could compress it so that it equaled 63 bits in hexpentpenttrihex(65536).

However the translator program would have to be some 32,768 times larger, but you only save 15.87 times the space.

So you would need to be sending something that was 2064.77 times larger than the number of compression, in this case...which is fine, in this case...but 6.3% of 2,378 is still 149.814 years.

Compressing it again would leave you with 32 bits(since you have to round up to the nearest bit...since you can't have half a bit) per 1000, but 4,294,967,296 bits on the decompression program. (536,870,912 bytes, or 536 megabytes)

 

You would save 31.25 times the space, but the program would be 2,147,483,648 times the size.

So you would need to send something 68,719,477 times larger than the number of compression...and it would still take 74.3125 years....

 

Compressing it again would save 15.625 times the space, but the program would be 18,446,744,073,709,551,616 bits...thats 2,305,843,009,213,693,952 bytes or 2.5 Exabytes... We are 3 zeros away from the compressing program being larger than the thing it is compressing...

Anyway, it would still take 37.15625 years.

 

Compressing it again, saves 7.8125 times the space, but the program would be 3.4e+38 bits....4.e+37 Bytes....or 4 Undecillion Bytes...Wikipedia and the SI system doesn't cover this level of memory, but somewhere else does....4 Udabytes

http://jimvb.home.mindspring.com/unitsystem.htm

Anyway, even with this ungainly mass of programming, it would still take 18 and a half years...This is on top of the 2,378 years you spent compressing it to this size(Actually it should be 7 times this, since it was compressed 7 times...so 16,646 years...Or 16 Kiloyears if you want to be SI about it....Or would it be smaller, since each compression is dealing with a smaller number? Yeah, 4737 years.)

 

So, we can safely say that compression is off the agenda?

 

 

Also the Heinsenberg uncertainty principle is just something Heisenberg threw at Einstein to mock one of his theories about how gravity affects time I think, it's not really any closer to be proven valid than ascention.

Key phrase there....I think...

The Uncertainty Principle is pretty simple.

Imagine you are in a pitch black room, with a long pole in your hand. There is a ballon somewhere in the room and you can't move. You have to find out the position and momentum of the ballon.

As long as you don't hit the ballon you know that the momentum of the balloon is 0. If you hit the ballon you know its position, but its momentum is now an unknown.

If you had some sort of a machine which hit the balloon with an exact amount of energy, you are still no better off because you don't know where on the balloon you hit, so it could fly off in any direction.

If you gently felt around the room with the pole until you found the balloon with the stick then the momentum of the ballon would still be in flux because of the vibrations of your arm. If you had your mechanical system with ultra shock protectors, so there was no shaking at all, then you have the repulsion of the atoms between the pole and the balloon, if you calculate this, then how? You have no idea what the balloon is made of, what size or shape it is, what is inside it, if anything...So your calculations are thus impossible. If you then removed your metal pole from the vicinity of the balloon you now no longer know that it is there, since it might have moved due to unknown factors, you can 'think' its there, but that doesn't mean it is....

 

Its not a perfect experiment mind, I am not a quantum physist by trade so don't quote me...but that is my understanding of the Uncertainty Principle and that is the one that the game applies.

 

SIRO TEMP starts a project to make it possible to make out what quarks and electrons are made of.

I have a theory that all matter may be constructed out of photons (since they're so small we are unable to actually detect them, they might actually be the smallest kind of particle and maybe the fundamental building block of all else).

Basic thing... A photon has no mass...How does something that does not have mass create something that does have mass?

It would be like two women giving birth to a male child... It is statistically impossible(Practically anyway, genetic mutations and such aside neither woman would have the Y chromosome in their genes, and thus could not pass it on to the child...any more than they could pass on the ability to summon fire out of nowhere)

 

I say we let the dice decide as there is no way of proving wether it's right or wrong, after all dice ain't biased (unless Earth rolls as his dice loved me).

Three things...

Statistically you would have a 1 in 20 chance...So therefore if you proposed that time reversed when you dropped a Higgs Boson out of a plane, then that time stopped, time slowed down by 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, 1/6, 1/7, 1/8, 1/9, 1/10, 1/11, 1/12, 1/13, 1/14, 1/15, 1/16, 1/17, 1/18, 1/19 and 1/20, then at least one of them is certain(Probabalistically) to occur...Yet, in the real world, this is considerably unlikely, since it goes against everything we understand about the universe, yet there is no way to prove or disprove it (mainly because hte Higgs Boson doesn't exist...Silly Scientists, when will they learn that I am always right!)....

Second, we have a fairly good understanding the the world, as it is...As it was said 'Is it not enough to enjoy a beautiful garden...without believing their are pixies at the bottom of it?'

Thirdly:

God Does Not Play Dice With The Universe.

~Albert Einstein

 

 

That is why I am researching it at the moment, if it proves to be "true" then I'll open up new possibillities for travell, imagine a devide which, when pointed at another and turned on, uses some sort of directional EM-field to destabilize you, turning you into some sort of light (vissible or not) and sends you through a EM tube that keeps you contained in that sub-atomic state until you are released in the other device where your light will restabilize into matter.

You know, something like this already exists, but you have to stand at the top of the machine to let it work

[hide]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_wIApjqLIo[/hide]

Photons have no mass as far as we know, probably due to being the smallest known particle, we know that it has some as it is pulled in by the gravitational forces of a black hole.

 

Also god does not play dice with the universe, a game mod/engine however is supposedly required to. Especially when unprovable things are sugguested, let's say only 18, 19 or 20 is enough for my theory to be correct, then, if correct, the dice would decide the energy required 1 the power of one thousand suns, 20 two nuclear powerplants.

You don't fear me being correct do you? Everyone would gain from it as it is a SIRO TEMP project.

No one would gain from the game crashing when you stick energy destablisers on your aircraft and disintergrate a town...

 

Photons have no mass as far as we know, probably due to being the smallest known particle, we know that it has some as it is pulled in by the gravitational forces of a black hole.

Ah...no. Blackholes bend space time and light travels through space time...

In much the same way a ball travels over a snooker table until it reaches the hole...It does not fundermentally mean that the ball is a snooker table...

 

 

Also god does not play dice with the universe, a game mod/engine however is supposedly required to.

Dice are an aid when you are unsure of what will happen...I am certain of what will happen....Nada, because there is no scientific...or even speculative evidence...for the theory.

Y'know, I think I've learnt more from Archi's physics rants than I have in an entire year of physics lessons.

 

Heh.

I'm pretty sure that the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle has no bearing on this conversation. It refers to the fact that you cannot determine the momentum and position of an electron at the same time, as determining the position would require the electron to be a fixed object, while the momentum would require that the electron would be seen as a wave. An electron is both, but you cannot deduce both at the same time. Furthermore, you cannot look at the electron as a wave in one test and a fixed object in another test and combine them, as that would still (for some reason) be also inaccurate.

Archi, space-time bends are the same as gravitational fields, thus anything that is attracted to them has weight, just like Earth is a small, shallow bend a black hole is a medium, extremely deep one. Nothing has no mass except for void/vacuum, anything else than that has some mass, however little and hard to detect, else light would be called light and magnetism magnetism, they wouldn't be cathegorized as a prticle if else.

 

Also I don't see why you don't wish for travell to Mars at light-speed (not FTL) to be denied when it is available to anyone.

Archi, space-time bends are the same as gravitational fields, thus anything that is attracted to them has weight, just like Earth is a small, shallow bend a black hole is a medium, extremely deep one. Nothing has no mass except for void/vacuum, anything else than that has some mass, however little and hard to detect, else light would be called light and magnetism magnetism, they wouldn't be cathegorized as a prticle if else.

 

Sigh...

Note that light can have an energy that is equivalent to having a given rest mass.(P is Momentum) E=pc=mc^2, so m=p/c. A photon with a given momentum therefore can, under certain circumstances, act as though it has a certain mass. It does not really have mass though. According to relativity, all particles without mass always move at the speed of light and nothing with mass can ever move that fast.

 

Also, gravity is not exactly caused by two objects with mass. In General Relativity, Einstein showed that gravity is the warping of space-time by a single massive object. Light travels on a straight path along this curved space, allowing it to be bent along with space. This was a complete departure from Newton's theory of gravity where a massless object would not react at all to gravity. The difference is small, but measurable and it has been observed many times since.

 

Also I don't see why you don't wish for travell to Mars at light-speed (not FTL) to be denied when it is available to anyone.

 

Mr. President, I don't see why you oppose give everyone an unlimited amount of food.

Because it is impossible.

I still don't see why you are against it...Surely you want to give everyone unlimited food.

Yes, of course....

Fine, lets do it.

But we can't!

You just said you wanted to!

Its just not possible.

You just don't believe hard enough!!

Did this work when you wanted China to lose its nuclear weapons?

Yes!

Then why do they still have nuclear weapons...

They don't.

They do...I can see them on this spy sat photo

They are not real, they are wooden

They look pretty real

Thats because you want them to be real!!

No, its because they are real.

If you don't believe in them they don't exist!

 

And on and on and on...

The fact is that it is impossible, whether I want it or not is neither here nor there.

As it happens I don't, because it would be a silly idea which would innevitabitably lead to you blowing up Mars or insta-colonising the Solar System.

The photon is currently believed to be strictly massless, but this is an experimental question. If the photon is not a strictly massless particle, it would not move at the exact speed of light in vacuum, c. Its speed would be lower and depend on its frequency. Relativity would be unaffected by this; the so-called speed of light, c, would then not be the actual speed at which light moves, but a constant of nature which is the maximum speed that any object could theoretically attain in space-time.[18] Thus, it would still be the speed of space-time ripples (gravitational waves and gravitons), but it would not be the speed of photons.

 

There's an answer for ya. We do not know, whe have no way of testing it IRL, the only option that would truly be unbiased would be to let chance decide...

Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.

At no point does it say 'randomly stab in the dark at an idea which has alot of evidence against it and no evidence for it.'

Yes, it is true that no amount of evidence can prove something, while 1 peice of evidence can still undo it...but it doesn't mean 'If you jump off a cliff 20 times and say 'I believe I can fly'' that it will suddenly become possible.

 

The main problem I have is that there is no proof for your idea, yet rather alot against it, thus there is no way in hell that anyone can ever calculate the variables, and therefore it would be a matter me rolling a die each time you tried to do something. The game would thus have no element of stratagy or intelligence, it would just me 'Mather tries to use his uber weapon...Mather kills 6 Billion people when it fails'

It would also disprove the entire model of physics, so the game would degenerate to 'He rolls a dice....Titanium is now the weakest metal'

 

Anyway, the Unbiased Hand of God says 'No Dice'

Just one question, what's the evidence you're talking of, it's one known theori against one unknown, the later behind another theori sayimg the known theori can't be right as it would then mean our knowledge of was severely flawed.

 

Remember that this is so new to us that no evidence but of it's existance is available.

 

Also why no dice, that's the only way this can be decided unless the smallest particle is found very soon.

 

And a joke answer:

Jumping of cliffs and hoping gives you the abillity to fly, that's why Salamance (a pokemon) grew wings during it's time as a Shellgon, the first generation of it did that.

im guessing no dungeoneering archi? well. i may start overlording when i get back. but i might not.