The Current Trading System.

[Serens_Hero]

I guess this will be a small wall of text. However, I hope you read it and have some feedback!

 

Because of RWT JaGex decided a while ago to limit trading with being the maximum unbalanced only to up to 240k coins if you have been friends for 3 months. Because of this measure players had to find ways to trade their items against market value instead of the GE value, which could differ very much. This is currently been done with junk trading.

 

However, I think this is the opposite world. This is not correct. This is an unhealthy economic situation.

 

I believe that RWT can be stopped not by making it impossible, but by making it not worth the effort. So I would like to suggest this idea:

 

500 total + all F2P quests done: 100k unbalanced trade possible

1000 total + 100 quests done: 500k unbalanced trade possible

1500 total + 120 quests done: 3M unbalanced trade possible

1750 total + 140 quests done: 10M unbalance trade possible

2000 total + 166 quest done: Infinite unbalanced trade possible

 

I can imagine this seems very heavy for you all. But let's have a look at this. I'm nearly at 2000 total and 166 quests. This has taken me 5 years, but due to temporarily quitting an effective playtime of 4 years. Let's say a RWT worker is twice as fast (he also makes longer days), and is able to get 2000 total and 166 quests in 2 year.

 

According to this article a goldfarmer earns €0.30 per hour. Let's say he works 12 hours a day, that makes €3.60 a day. He has to work 2 years grinding on the account, so that would be 365*2 = 730 days (I don't know whether goldfarmers have weekends and holidays, but I don't think so)

 

The employer would need to pay him a salary of 730*€3.60= €2628,- for him to have an account which he can use to freely trade. He will assumably not have much money by then, because of the speed he needed to level up.

 

Furthermore, 2 years of Runescape membership cost €5.95*24 = €142.8 (holy, that's really what we're spending!). I haven't even mentioned the cost of a reliable internet connection and the deprecation of the computer, the accomodation etc.

 

So the employer spends at least €2800,- for such an account. If 1M money = €10,-, the employee has to gain 280M (probably even more, due to still getting salary) to break even. Not really efficient, huh? Especially for the Asian people who in general cannot miss such a chunk of cash for a long while.

 

Of course, there still will be done some RWT trading on a small scale, probably with lower level accounts. But I honestly think it's impossible to cancel RWT out, especially because there are loads of people who sell their entire account when they quit, which is still possible with the current anti-RWT rules.

 

The advantages:

- Runescapers are able to trade what they want yet again.

- There is no need for junk trading anymore, which was very time-costly and not very RS-related; you can now spend that time doing whatever you like in RS!

- There is an extra incentive for people to increase their total level and quests.

 

The disadvantages

- Enables RWT'ing slightly, but on a very small scale.

- Functions like Lootshare and Coinshare would become less used.

 

But isn't that unfair to players who don't like questing/skilling? No. It should be seen as an extra reward; players who do not like questing and skilling still have the same Runescape, and players who like questing and skilling have the advantage to make trades easier.

 

I hope I didn't waste your time!

[Obtaurian]

Number of quests required is very, very low. Only players with quest capes should be allowed unrestricted trade. Even the total level requirement for unrestricted trade seems kind of low with the advent of Dungeoneering. Anyway, I agree that these requirements would make RWT a very risky practice, but I don't pretend to know much about how it's done these days, so I'll wait for someone who does know to offer their input.

 

EDIT: D'oh, you're right, I was thinking of quest points. #-o

[tortilliachp]

sadly, this seems as a waste of time:

 

look at merchanting. rich merchants have high total. these players also tend to quit, or in the past, have had a tendency to sell off all their money to "start over" in terms of merchanting.

 

This is also where the major RWT can happen: merchanting. it's so much more effective than botting it's not even funny. even just item flipping, you can easily make a 1% increase in wealth every single day. Say i start with 3 billion (not a far call for an experienced merchant). If i were happy with my 3 billion, that's 30m profit to RWT with every single day. converts to at least $30 a day, which would tempt a LOT of people. A few traders like this could saturate the market for high level players to buy their expensive 99s. I could easily save time overall, by mowing the neighbor's then RWTing to get 99 prayer, or herblore or whatever, and it'd be more sastisfying than actual rs.

 

500k a trade means 500k every 15 minutes. that is already basically limitless in terms of RWT, but very restrictive in terms of partyhat trades.

 

majorly flawed system. please continue thinking though :)

 

 

high lvl rwt, when done right, never got you banned in the past. Scythe used to prosper off high level traders. I don't know of anyone who got banned for selling cash, only foolish stuff. faking a stake etc. then trading the "stake" over and things made it impossible for jagex to see what was real and fake

[Serens_Hero]

Number of quests required is very, very low. Only players with quest capes should be allowed unrestricted trade. Even the total level requirement for unrestricted trade seems kind of low with the advent of Dungeoneering. Anyway, I agree that these requirements would make RWT a very risky practice, but I don't pretend to know much about how it's done these days, so I'll wait for someone who does know to offer their input.

The number of quests could be altered of course, but just so you know: 166 quests = Quest Cape. Guess you were thinking in Quest Points. :blink:

[Serens_Hero]

sadly, this seems as a waste of time:

 

look at merchanting. rich merchants have high total. these players also tend to quit, or in the past, have had a tendency to sell off all their money to "start over" in terms of merchanting.

 

This is also where the major RWT can happen: merchanting. it's so much more effective than botting it's not even funny. even just item flipping, you can easily make a 1% increase in wealth every single day. Say i start with 3 billion (not a far call for an experienced merchant). If i were happy with my 3 billion, that's 30m profit to RWT with every single day. converts to at least $30 a day, which would tempt a LOT of people. A few traders like this could saturate the market for high level players to buy their expensive 99s. I could easily save time overall, by mowing the neighbor's then RWTing to get 99 prayer, or herblore or whatever, and it'd be more sastisfying than actual rs.

 

500k a trade means 500k every 15 minutes. that is already basically limitless in terms of RWT, but very restrictive in terms of partyhat trades.

 

majorly flawed system. please continue thinking though :)

 

 

high lvl rwt, when done right, never got you banned in the past. Scythe used to prosper off high level traders. I don't know of anyone who got banned for selling cash, only foolish stuff. faking a stake etc. then trading the "stake" over and things made it impossible for jagex to see what was real and fake

You forget one point I think. Because of unlimited trades, GE values will become the market values very fast. This way merchanting will be a lot harder. However, you do have a point about merchanting. I'm sure there is a solution to that as well, but that needs more thinking from my side.

[Trey]

2k + total

quest cape

XX days of game time

member account

 

I would love to see unbalanced trade back in runescape. They just need to set the reqs high enough so it doesn't make sense for gold farmers.

[Serens_Hero]

Moreover, Jagex stated they implemented balanced trading because of fake credit cards in Asia. At least my idea cancels out goldfarming.

[Den]

I feel this would just encourage them to hack accounts who have access to free trade. :unsure:

[Dire_Wolf]

Number of quests required is very, very low. Only players with quest capes should be allowed unrestricted trade. Even the total level requirement for unrestricted trade seems kind of low with the advent of Dungeoneering. Anyway, I agree that these requirements would make RWT a very risky practice, but I don't pretend to know much about how it's done these days, so I'll wait for someone who does know to offer their input.

 

EDIT: D'oh, you're right, I was thinking of quest points. #-o

I agree, Quest cape should give unlimited trade.

I feel this would just encourage them to hack accounts who have access to free trade. :unsure:

Good point, but that's a risk we have to take.

 

 

EDIT:

Welcome to TIF SH, your username is cool which is why i bother welcoming lol.

[Shelby_Polo]

Jagex has given us evidence that skilled players bot; so I'd imagine some would rwt too. So totally bringing back unbalanced trading, even with top notch restrictions, is a bad idea.

 

But it's a good idea to increase the current limit, especially to friends.

 

2k + total

quest cape

XX days of game time

member account

This looks like great restrictions to use.

[schmuall]

 

According to this article a goldfarmer earns 0.30 per hour. Let's say he works 12 hours a day, that makes 3.60 a day. He has to work 2 years grinding on the account, so that would be 365*2 = 730 days (I don't know whether goldfarmers have weekends and holidays, but I don't think so)

 

The employer would need to pay him a salary of 730*3.60= 2628,- for him to have an account which he can use to freely trade. He will assumably not have much money by then, because of the speed he needed to level up.

 

Furthermore, 2 years of Runescape membership cost 5.95*24 = 142.8 (holy, that's really what we're spending!). I haven't even mentioned the cost of a reliable internet connection and the deprecation of the computer, the accomodation etc.

 

So the employer spends at least 2800,- for such an account. If 1M money = 10,-, the employee has to gain 280M (probably even more, due to still getting salary) to break even. Not really efficient, huh? Especially for the Asian people who in general cannot miss such a chunk of cash for a long while.

 

 

Or they could just buy a ready made account with those stats (or close to those stats) for about $200.

[Serens_Hero]

Jagex has given us evidence that skilled players bot; so I'd imagine some would rwt too. So totally bringing back unbalanced trading, even with top notch restrictions, is a bad idea.

 

But it's a good idea to increase the current limit, especially to friends.

 

2k + total

quest cape

XX days of game time

member account

This looks like great restrictions to use.

Jagex tracks botting players, but there will be always macroing players; balanced trade or not.

 

But what if Jagex implemented a rule that items bought via the GE can only be re-sold after 5 days? This would hurt merchanting a big deal.

[Dire_Wolf]

Another thing to think of is the electric bill. Surely a computer being on 24/7 would be costly?

[tortilliachp]

sadly, this seems as a waste of time:

 

look at merchanting. rich merchants have high total. these players also tend to quit, or in the past, have had a tendency to sell off all their money to "start over" in terms of merchanting.

 

This is also where the major RWT can happen: merchanting. it's so much more effective than botting it's not even funny. even just item flipping, you can easily make a 1% increase in wealth every single day. Say i start with 3 billion (not a far call for an experienced merchant). If i were happy with my 3 billion, that's 30m profit to RWT with every single day. converts to at least $30 a day, which would tempt a LOT of people. A few traders like this could saturate the market for high level players to buy their expensive 99s. I could easily save time overall, by mowing the neighbor's then RWTing to get 99 prayer, or herblore or whatever, and it'd be more sastisfying than actual rs.

 

500k a trade means 500k every 15 minutes. that is already basically limitless in terms of RWT, but very restrictive in terms of partyhat trades.

 

majorly flawed system. please continue thinking though :)

 

 

high lvl rwt, when done right, never got you banned in the past. Scythe used to prosper off high level traders. I don't know of anyone who got banned for selling cash, only foolish stuff. faking a stake etc. then trading the "stake" over and things made it impossible for jagex to see what was real and fake

You forget one point I think. Because of unlimited trades, GE values will become the market values very fast. This way merchanting will be a lot harder. However, you do have a point about merchanting. I'm sure there is a solution to that as well, but that needs more thinking from my side.

 

for rares, which is where merchanting is the most profitable, it won't. the expensive rares are only traded via trades, not the GE. only GE trades change GE price. if anything, GE prices will adjust a lot more slowly.

 

manipulation would continue. Item flipping isn't affected by the relationship of GE values vs. real values (which is already merchanting based ONLY on daily fluctuations in things like armour and other expensive items), flipping would be even easier with the new system, as you could GE buy, and w2 sell or vice versa, GE prices changing more seldom.

 

RWT will not be risky, people will fake duels, and not get banned. Just like in the past. they could even use dice-rolls from the gaming tools, or "find the bush placed by a third party first" or whatever. it'd be even easier to get away with it from before.

[Will H]

I feel this would just encourage them to hack accounts who have access to free trade. :unsure:

Good point, but that's a risk we have to take.

 

Not really. I like the fact that there's no significant financial reason why someone else would hack my account. If I get a Quest Cape, which I plan to fairly soon now, my account becomes one of the relatively few that's both active (and therefore susceptible to keyloggers) and worth a lot for gold farmers with bot networks. It's a great big white and blue sign saying 'hack me if you can'.

 

However, I would appreciate it if you could break the trade limit by a margin of up to 40x over it, but on the condition that you can't transfer further wealth until the 'trade debt' is paid back in the normal 15 minute chunks. Normally, if you give a present to a friend, it's going to be a single or two high value items, and you won't give any more wealth to them for a fairly long time. The rate of wealth transfer limit is still there, but it just compensates for cases where you give a one-off gift to a friend.

 

EDIT: Looking at my post, what I suggested probably didn't make much sense. Here's an example:

 

Player A and B both have the maximum possible trade limit, 240,000 gp per 15 minutes. Neither have traded in the last 15 minutes, so their limits are at their normal state.

 

It's B's birthday, so A gives a Saradomin Sword to B, worth approximately 8,900,000 coins. Terrifyingly unbalanced this trade may be, they both agree to a 'trade debt' to do this. This means that after this single trade, A can't give away any more wealth to anyone or B receive any more wealth from anyone else until the value of 8,900,000gp has been reduced to 0 at a rate of -240,000gp per 15 minutes, their trade limit. This will take about 9 and a half hours to complete.

 

You can only trade up to 40x the limit, which in this case is 40*240,000 = 9,600,000 gp at the maximum requirements. Alternatively, for new accounts that don't know each other, it's only at 40*5,000 = 200,000. It might seem a lot, after that trade, the receiver can't receive and the giver can't give any more for another 10 hours. Trading with bots are no faster than they were before.

[stonewall337]

Gold is about 2.5 dollar per mill, and a level 114 acc sells for around 600 dollars, with ~125m gp and decent stats. RWT would occur more. However, it would be nice to have a few unlimited trades a month, maybe 2 max. THAT would really limit RWT, but allow splits easier, as well as helping friends.

 

And I have no trouble getting cash without merching, never did. Herb runs and stuff.

[Ellac]

To those of you saying quest cape should be a requirement: Gtfo.

You guys should stop thinking about mains and start thinking about the whole spectrum of players. If it's made that quest cape is a requirement then that means only mains and tanks can have free trade. I'm a pure, and I can only get ~260 quest points. Does not being able to get a quest cape make you a RWTer? HELL NO.

[timmmmm83]

As said, this would bring a greater incentive to hack our accounts as hackers can trade away everything on it, so no thank you... :unsure:

 

And if that goldfarmer spent 2 whole years grinding on a particular account, he probably merched himself into the billions. It takes +-5 minutes/day to merch.

 

I don't mind the current trade limit, the limit is high/low enough for me.

(if a friend needs a piece of armour/weapon, I can lend it to him/her)

 

The only problems I see nowadays are items that can't be sold/bought with pure cash and merch scams.

Won't a sell-limit (on ge and in trade) solve the problem of merch scams? A clanchat owner usually buys a merched item weeks in advance, to gradually unload his stock on his "followers" afterwards. This would not be possible anymore, or it would take weeks to dump his items, which by then probably crashed.

A normal Scaper won't be hurt by this, he can sell 10k logs/4h, 2 rares/4h, 10 weapons/4h, ...

[ccesssu]

This would work, but another requirement for unlimited trade: friends for 6 months+

 

Now hacked accounts would be useless. RWT couldn't sell to anyone except friends, and the player would have time to recover their account.

You can give presents to good friends.

Even if RWT friended costumers and waited 6 months, this would be INSANELY easy to track.

[Dire_Wolf]

To those of you saying quest cape should be a requirement: Gtfo.

You guys should stop thinking about mains and start thinking about the whole spectrum of players. If it's made that quest cape is a requirement then that means only mains and tanks can have free trade. I'm a pure, and I can only get ~260 quest points. Does not being able to get a quest cape make you a RWTer? HELL NO.

Noone forced you to be a pure?

This would work, but another requirement for unlimited trade: friends for 6 months+

Could do it like this:

 

Either wait one year friends - unlimited

 

or Quest cape+6 months!

[friedtomato7]

To those of you saying quest cape should be a requirement: Gtfo.

You guys should stop thinking about mains and start thinking about the whole spectrum of players. If it's made that quest cape is a requirement then that means only mains and tanks can have free trade. I'm a pure, and I can only get ~260 quest points. Does not being able to get a quest cape make you a RWTer? HELL NO.

pures chose to limit themself. They know when they enter the game that they will be limited in what they do. Other players should not be punished because of their choices.

[stonewall337]

To those of you saying quest cape should be a requirement: Gtfo.

You guys should stop thinking about mains and start thinking about the whole spectrum of players. If it's made that quest cape is a requirement then that means only mains and tanks can have free trade. I'm a pure, and I can only get ~260 quest points. Does not being able to get a quest cape make you a RWTer? HELL NO.

Except jagex SAID they don't give a crap about pures?

 

Pures chose to give up certain stats to have higher bonuses at lower combat levels. They aren't MADE to play that way.

[Bladewing]

Should I be surprised by all the "omgf rwt will come bak and rune rs no wildy back rwt"? Oh well.

 

Fine with me. Quest cape and like 100m xp or something seems reasonable.

[tortilliachp]

you're ignoring the structural flaws that have been pointed out in this topic.

 

like how RWT would roam completely free with even a 500k free trade, in such ways that Jagex couldn't dream of banning the perpetrators. duels etc. are very easy to fake.

[ZorathZ]

Free trade completely undermines the grand exchange. You can't have free and unlimited trade and the grand exchange at the same time.

 

Why? Because it would create seperate prices in GE and between players. You MUST keep strict restrictions in order to keep item values consistent between trade and GE.

If unlimited trade was possible, people would no longer be bound by GE prices for rares and the entire economy could revert to pre-GE making the entire thing useless.