I kind of assumed that barrows was better than Bandos for safe PVP, but it's interesting to see it proven mathematically. For the slayer comparison, your proselyte setup should have a fire cape. It would raise the costs by a negligible amount while closing the DPS gap. That said, I do believe that Bandos is worth it *if you have overloads and turmoil*. It's just one of the many examples of paying huge prices for small advantages. And, of course, Bandos is useful for most boss hunting.

I kind of assumed that barrows was better than Bandos for safe PVP, but it's interesting to see it proven mathematically. For the slayer comparison, your proselyte setup should have a fire cape. It would raise the costs by a negligible amount while closing the DPS gap. That said, I do believe that Bandos is worth it *if you have overloads and turmoil*. It's just one of the many examples of paying huge prices for small advantages. And, of course, Bandos is useful for most boss hunting.

prossy /firecape is a pretty good setup where you need to pray protection

 

i dont really see a reason to bring bandos on task where u protection pray but the only task i do is............spiritual mages i guess abberant specters too but ima blocking n00b lol...maybe black demons when u have 2 on u...

 

or if u feel like afking a task of dragons but im usually to busy banking bones and killing next.

 

also for max hit i find that i am hitting above my old max in kuradel 650 prossy/sw cape quite often enough that it is worth it to have bandos/firecape max i seen so far is like 686

 

so im really not a fan of dividing max hit by 2 to get avarage hit maybe i will do 100 hits on dusties and put them in excel to get avarage hit =p

 

but on othe places such as mithril dragons avarage hit is less cuz of more 0s

I kind of assumed that barrows was better than Bandos for safe PVP, but it's interesting to see it proven mathematically. For the slayer comparison, your proselyte setup should have a fire cape. It would raise the costs by a negligible amount while closing the DPS gap. That said, I do believe that Bandos is worth it *if you have overloads and turmoil*. It's just one of the many examples of paying huge prices for small advantages. And, of course, Bandos is useful for most boss hunting.

prossy /firecape is a pretty good setup where you need to pray protection

 

i dont really see a reason to bring bandos on task where u protection pray but the only task i do is............spiritual mages i guess abberant specters too but ima blocking n00b lol...maybe black demons when u have 2 on u...

 

or if u feel like afking a task of dragons but im usually to busy banking bones and killing next.

 

also for max hit i find that i am hitting above my old max in kuradel 650 prossy/sw cape quite often enough that it is worth it to have bandos/firecape max i seen so far is like 686

 

so im really not a fan of dividing max hit by 2 to get avarage hit maybe i will do 100 hits on dusties and put them in excel to get avarage hit =p

 

but on othe places such as mithril dragons avarage hit is less cuz of more 0s

 

Yeah, I use proselyte and fire cape on protect prayer tasks, too. ;)

An interesting read to be quite honest. :-k

 

I knew Torags had its advantages, but in the long run I wasn't quite expecting that.

Oh well happy i sold my bandos for 99 smithing :)

If you are pro at prayer switching at TDs, and are using a steel titan, I think bandos might be best.

Void melee has higher dps, right? So the only thing bandos has going for it is +3 (or what is it?) to prayer.

 

To the OP: maybe you should include the profits of flipping the 45m you invest in bandos as costs. Should tip the scales, at 5% per day that's 2.25m in a few minutes, so you'd have to save 25 mins on slayer to make bandos worth it. Save 25 minutes PER DAY. At your 1.75 mins saved per hour, that is 16 hours of slaying per day to make bandos worth it, right?

I kind of assumed that barrows was better than Bandos for safe PVP, but it's interesting to see it proven mathematically. For the slayer comparison, your proselyte setup should have a fire cape. It would raise the costs by a negligible amount while closing the DPS gap. That said, I do believe that Bandos is worth it *if you have overloads and turmoil*. It's just one of the many examples of paying huge prices for small advantages. And, of course, Bandos is useful for most boss hunting.

prossy /firecape is a pretty good setup where you need to pray protection

 

i dont really see a reason to bring bandos on task where u protection pray but the only task i do is............spiritual mages i guess abberant specters too but ima blocking n00b lol...maybe black demons when u have 2 on u...

 

or if u feel like afking a task of dragons but im usually to busy banking bones and killing next.

 

also for max hit i find that i am hitting above my old max in kuradel 650 prossy/sw cape quite often enough that it is worth it to have bandos/firecape max i seen so far is like 686

 

so im really not a fan of dividing max hit by 2 to get avarage hit maybe i will do 100 hits on dusties and put them in excel to get avarage hit =p

 

but on othe places such as mithril dragons avarage hit is less cuz of more 0s

 

Yeah, I use proselyte and fire cape on protect prayer tasks, too. ;)

Prossy + fire cape sucks. Compare it with bandos + SW cape. Same prayer, yet more strength (and defence).

Prossy + fire cape sucks. Compare it with bandos + SW cape. Same prayer, yet more strength (and defence).

 

Wow, I can't believe I never knew that. :eek: Two more strength for one less prayer is a pretty good deal. I've thoroughly (though not thoroughly enough, apparently) researched all kinds of slayer setups for using turmoil, and I never once compared those two for a protection prayer task.

 

Mind = blown.

In the pvp part, you dont take into the account that it isnt always about DPS, KO power is very important too. If you hit a 300 with barrows on, and leave your opponent with 10 lp, the fight continues. If you had bandos on and had hit the 610, you would have won the fight.

Prossy + fire cape sucks. Compare it with bandos + SW cape. Same prayer, yet more strength (and defence).

How's prossy legs + bcp and ardy cloak 3? You lose 2 prayer to get +6 accuracy, sweet deal?

Prossy + fire cape sucks. Compare it with bandos + SW cape. Same prayer, yet more strength (and defence).

How's prossy legs + bcp and ardy cloak 3? You lose 2 prayer to get +6 accuracy, sweet deal?

 

There are very few tasks where you need the extra accuracy (I actually wouldn't use the Ardy cape for slayer at all). It's also worth noting that a Verac's skirt has one less prayer bonus than proselyte legs, but much more defense.

Prossy + fire cape sucks. Compare it with bandos + SW cape. Same prayer, yet more strength (and defence).

How's prossy legs + bcp and ardy cloak 3? You lose 2 prayer to get +6 accuracy, sweet deal?

 

There are very few tasks where you need the extra accuracy (I actually wouldn't use the Ardy cape for slayer at all). It's also worth noting that a Verac's skirt has one less prayer bonus than proselyte legs, but much more defense.

OK, thanks. I was thinking, if we value strength at 1, prayer at .5 and accuracy at .25, then we get:

• Soul Wars cape: 6. Fire cape: 5.25. Ardougne cloak: 4.5.
  
• Bcp: 4.5, torso & proselyte 4.
  
• Tassets: 2.5, Verac's skirt 2, proselyte skirt 2.5 (value defence at ~1/50th, Verac wins).
  
• Defender: +9.75 (+10 with rapier), DFS +7. With the defence rule, DFS has about 8.5.
  

 

Am I reinventing the wheel, wrong, or is this a decent rule of thumb?

Bandos + sw cape = win. I use that for most tasks.

 

I would only use an ardy cloak for like mithril dragons or something.

Yeah, soul wars cape is pretty much beast - it's a lot more important to get it for slaying than full B

 

And like I said about KO's before: Sure, Bandos will hit like 3% more damage on each hit - but he will also get hit a lot more often. It's a lot easier to tank a single strong hit than a couple slightly weaker hits back to back. If we were talking about a smaller difference in accuracy I would agree with you, but 6-7% is pretty substantial.

 

As for the point about flipping: Flipping an item doesn't mean you have to use it. Plus you can flip non-Bandos items

The slayer part of the story was pathetic really, in which you just proved that any decent player(most people can make atleast 1m an hour with 3m+ not out of reach) should use bandos instead of proselyte for slayer, Not to mention you forgot to accurately value the extra experience you are to receive, or the drops. Prayer bonus is just ridiculously overrated, I personally use either fire or ardy cape combined with bandos because my time is worth well over 6m an hour(any item, you can get back, but not the time).

 

The part about extra defense and pvp might seem impressive, until you discover that, in any case possible, fighting a melee tank with melee is....stupid. It's borderline relevant when even considering an armors effectiveness and shouldn't be put under such investigation. The only time you are going to fully use the extra defense of barrows is training, and we all know how useless it is even then, not to mention the repairing. What you should have considered, however, is how well either of those armors does against the other two classes or how well they would work in a hybrid setup, and in those situations, bandos is actually BETTER than barrows(more range def, less negative magic attack, prayer ~the same, more strength). Not to even mention the looks, which, undoubtedly, are much, much better(i seem to recall the CLS camps biggest argument about picking their teeth).

The slayer part of the story was pathetic really, in which you just proved that any decent player(most people can make atleast 1m an hour with 3m+ not out of reach) should use bandos instead of proselyte for slayer, Not to mention you forgot to accurately value the extra experience you are to receive, or the drops. Prayer bonus is just ridiculously overrated, I personally use either fire or ardy cape combined with bandos because my time is worth well over 6m an hour(any item, you can get back, but not the time).

 

You can't ignore the fact that on cannoned and familiar tasks (which should be a large proportion of your tasks) the figure approximately doubles. Also the figure is only a baseline - you should include a roughly 1.25 - 1.5X multiplier to incorporate losses associated with getting the task, walking around during the task, picking up drops, etc - all time that isn't combat. Adding any protection prayers also introduces a 1.5X multiplier.

 

I think I made it clear that my point is Bandos is good for people with soul wars cape and turmoil but NOT piety and no soul wars cape. A lot of people don't make 1M/hr yet they still use Bandos.

 

The part about extra defense and pvp might seem impressive, until you discover that, in any case possible, fighting a melee tank with melee is....stupid. It's borderline relevant when even considering an armors effectiveness and shouldn't be put under such investigation. The only time you are going to fully use the extra defense of barrows is training, and we all know how useless it is even then, not to mention the repairing. What you should have considered, however, is how well either of those armors does against the other two classes or how well they would work in a hybrid setup, and in those situations, bandos is actually BETTER than barrows(more range def, less negative magic attack, prayer ~the same, more strength). Not to even mention the looks, which, undoubtedly, are much, much better(i seem to recall the CLS camps biggest argument about picking their teeth).

You'd be surprised at how many people fight melee vs melee. Stupid, I agree, but it happens a LOT.

Plus even for bridding you will get into lulls of melee vs melee, when both brids need to rest a bit. It's important to know what the best setup is for those lulls too.

Also, I brid a lot better with torag's than Bandos. It's really a matter of personal preference. The only two selling points for Bandos are ranged defense and strength bonus. The ranged defense is only 1 more than each barrows counterpart, and whether or not the strength bonus makes up for the defense loss is personal preference and has to do with when you switch into melee gear.

nice research, interesting thread. i always prefer defense over str bonus, especially since i'm 58 str -.-

I like to read these "pro" threads for the lulz. :D

But, I'll leave you with something instead of just laughing at you and the other "pros".

 

Waterfiend Camping Gear

 

Head: Guthix Halo

Neck: Fury

Body: Karil Body

Legs: Karil Skirt

Feet: Dragon Boots

Ring: Dragonstone (i) {don't have onyx for the meager +1}

Weapon: CLS (CR not recommended)

Off-Hand: Rune Defender

Cape: Ardouge Cloak

 

Use 160 Stab with turmoil and stats potted above 115 takes care of waterfiends like you were using a crush weapon, but you aren't. 100+ crims an hour, familiar not necessary like usual. ;)

I like to read these "pro" threads for the lulz. :D

But, I'll leave you with something instead of just laughing at you and the other "pros".

 

Waterfiend Camping Gear

 

Head: Guthix Halo

Neck: Fury

Body: Karil Body

Legs: Karil Skirt

Feet: Dragon Boots

Ring: Dragonstone (i) {don't have onyx for the meager +1}

Weapon: CLS (CR not recommended)

Off-Hand: Rune Defender

Cape: Ardouge Cloak

 

Use 160 Stab with turmoil and stats potted above 115 takes care of waterfiends like you were using a crush weapon, but you aren't. 100+ crims an hour, familiar not necessary like usual. ;)

 

What why don't you just get a maul... also I'm pretty sure rapier would be better

 

Also you can get 100+ charms/hr with a ZS lol

 

This isn't a "pro" thread, lol.

As for the point about flipping: Flipping an item doesn't mean you have to use it. Plus you can flip non-Bandos items

I think you mean: "Flipping an item doesn't mean you can't use it."? So you mean to say you can flip Bandos while using it?

I like to read these "pro" threads for the lulz. :D

But, I'll leave you with something instead of just laughing at you and the other "pros".

 

Waterfiend Camping Gear

 

Head: Guthix Halo

Neck: Fury

Body: Karil Body

Legs: Karil Skirt

Feet: Dragon Boots

Ring: Dragonstone (i) {don't have onyx for the meager +1}

Weapon: CLS (CR not recommended)

Off-Hand: Rune Defender

Cape: Ardouge Cloak

 

Use 160 Stab with turmoil and stats potted above 115 takes care of waterfiends like you were using a crush weapon, but you aren't. 100+ crims an hour, familiar not necessary like usual. ;)

 

You could get double the crims (~200) with a chaotic maul and steel/iron titan in CT. :rolleyes:

Dont kill me for asking, but how many prayer points does turmoil use if you have it activated for 60 minutes (1 hour) without turning it off?

(Only turmoil, no other prayers)

Turmoil drains one point every 1.8 x (1 + 3.5% [prayer bonus]) seconds.

 

So in one hour, it drains:

 

2,000 points with 0 prayer bonus

1,481 points with 10 prayer bonus

1,176 points with 20 prayer bonus

975 points with 30 prayer bonus

833 points with 40 prayer bonus

727 points with 50 prayer bonus

 

As you can see, the more prayer bonus you have, the less useful more prayer bonus becomes.

Turmoil drains one point every 1.8 x (1 + 3.5% [prayer bonus]) seconds.

 

 

As you can see, the more prayer bonus you have, the less useful more prayer bonus becomes.

 

This is why SW cape makes Bandos better

 

As for the point about flipping: Flipping an item doesn't mean you have to use it. Plus you can flip non-Bandos items

I think you mean: "Flipping an item doesn't mean you can't use it."? So you mean to say you can flip Bandos while using it?

 

No lol. What I mean is that you can own and flip and item and not use it. So you can own Bandos and flip it without using it for slayer.

As for the point about flipping: Flipping an item doesn't mean you have to use it. Plus you can flip non-Bandos items

I think you mean: "Flipping an item doesn't mean you can't use it."? So you mean to say you can flip Bandos while using it?

 

No lol. What I mean is that you can own and flip and item and not use it. So you can own Bandos and flip it without using it for slayer.

Then how is that relevant to my argument? If you put 45m into buying Bandos, you can't use that same 45m to flip and make money, right? So it's costing you?