Spirit Shields - They won't be beaten

[Danqazmlp]

Spirit shields, the strongest shields in the game for each respective use. The most expensive shields dropped by what is probably the most powerful creature in the game. So, why is it whenever we get an update which brings a new shield into the game, does it get compared to these shields?

 

The spirit shields are arguably the hardest items to get in this game. Not only are they only attainable from the strongest enemy outside of quests, it can only be attained in separate parts which need putting together. The shields were the first to offer extra bonus damage reduction added onto their regular defence. In a way, they were an experiment by Jagex. The problem with the shields however is that they were released too soon. Being the first with these extra bonuses, you can expect more in the future. And more did come, as rewards for the Dungeoneering skill. These new shields therefore got compared to the spirit shields because of them both having extra bonuses. Of course, it has been found out that these shields are not as good as the ones released earlier, which brings people to complain.

 

Is it however, fair? It is fair to compare items which are incredibly hard to get, which take the highest of stats or massive amounts of money, to items which require much less effort to attain and much less time to attain. Here is the problem. Jagex released the best items first, which will always lead to the rest being inferior. This in turn brings complaints. Jagex made the mistake of making something super powerful and releasing it when they could have released something much less powerful, but still enough to satisfy people and their hunger for stronger items.

 

This brings problems for the future. Jagex can either:

 

• Create something even stronger which will then dwarf the spirit shields, but would be even harder to get. These would then have to be worth billions in todays market and could unbalance the game.
  
• Create shields which are inferior which then get thrown to the floor in disgust as they can't stand up to the current best. This then, as I have said brings complaints.
  

 

They are stuck in a hole as far as shields are now concerned. Their mistake was to create something incredibly strong instead of a slow gradual change and increase.

 

What I am saying, in short, is that it is unfair to compare spirit shields to others and then complain when the other shields can't stand up to them. Jagex have made the mistake which they now cannot undo.

[Den]

I do think they should release stuff gradualy instead of releasing something great, then adding worse stuff later.

I also think however that Jagex are too focused on balancing things these days, that they end up having such a little impact compared to older items that people just cba getting them.

 

Like many things with RS2, its legacy issues. (Viewing people from different height levels but buildings not being tall enough, the most powerful items, etc)

[green9090]

I'm not comparing the CKS to the divine and ely when I say it's worthless. Its damage reduction is so low that it can be safely ignored, meaning that it must be judged based solely on its defensive stats. Its stats are okay, but not better than the relatively cheap DFS for anything.

 

Similarly, eagle eye is inferior to the again relatively inexpensive spectral, and farseer falls short of the affordable arcane.

 

What COULD have been niche shields are instead crap shields. With the time it takes a player to save up enough tokens to get all the weapons they want (the weapons being tens of times more useful than the shields) and then start in on the shields, everyone who couldn't afford the better shields is weeded out. I highly doubt anyone who couldn't afford the superior counterpart to a shield will ever buy one. They have worse stats, negligible damage soaking, and cost money to use to boot. Of course they're worse than divine and ely, but they could at least be arguably better than the next tier down.

[Hegelstad]

I think it's very important to keep value / power at the same ratio. The value and power should be determined by how hard it is to acquire the item. So in this case you would suggest that Corporeal beast either should be released later, dungeoneering should be harder (and give the shields better stats) or make corporeal beast and the SS's weaker. If jagex go out and nerf an item (like Nexon likes to do with Maplestory) it would, might even ruin the game. Maplestory is so messed up now, leaving former high lvl equip worthless, and they add low lvl equip that becomes very rare to compensate. I dont think it works. So jagex made a right decision, they needed a boss monster of that difficulty, and therefore they needed that reward. They weren't ready with dungeoneering, and they cant make dung too hard either, because people will get bored. I see no reason why its bad to release the most powerful equip first. Adds more goals to the serious players, and they might put in something in between for the casual ones. A good flow.

 

(sorry if my english is unclear, I'm from norway :P)

[Jehosaphat]

We don't want another divine/ely from the Chaotic Shields. We want something that actually justifies its cost - an alternative to the Spirit Shields that's not as good, but relatively cheaper.

 

Right now, though, Chaotic Shields are pretty much a big fat flop - their main selling point has been retracted from numerous times to the point where most people see it as not doing much of anything, and the stat bonuses compared to the alternatives aren't worth the opportunity cost of a chaotic weapon.

[stonewall337]

Even 10% base damage reduction might be worth it TBH, 10% of all melee, 5% range, 0% mage, etc.

[TheAncient]

Jagex is pretty terrible at game balance. The solutions to this problem are plentiful:

-- Instead of the DG shields, Make a DG reward an attachment to spirit shields which allow for damage soaking.

-- Buff the DG shield damage soaking while reducing their stats.

-- Use different combinations of stats.

 

We NEED damage reduction.

[PereGrin]

I think the issue that most people have with the shields is that in the KB, it claimed 20% reduction on hits over 200lp (for the main style of reduction). Because there was nothing to confirm or deny this claim, lots of players bought them thinking they would be good. Then, it recently came out that this shield does not do this at all, or anywhere close to this. Instead, it has 14% damage reduction on all damage recieved past 200lp damage. This means that if you would have gotten hit for a 300, you first subtract 200 from that, and then the shield reduces damage by 14% of what is left. So you save a whopping 14lp, which is 4.6% total damage reduction.

 

Even letting Jad max on you, the shield only blocks up to about 11.1% of the damage, which isn't even close to 14%, which is what your equipment screen currently claims in game.

 

And that is the maximum they will ever block. Because essentially nothing else hits 980s, the average damage blocking you will get from using the shield is about 5%. And that is only against one style of attack. For bosses that use multiple styles, (GWD, TDs, and elsewhere) the averate % damage reduction is far lower. For those people that bought this shield to use, it does not even do close to what Jagex claimed it did.

 

The small damage reduction is not worth the time it took to get the shield, and anyone in position to use the shield has many better options available, such as sepctral, arcane, DFS, and rune defender. All those shields are better then their chaotic counterpart, they are relatively affordable, and none of them cost any money to use.

[Cheefoo]

The concept of the dungeoneering kiteshields was almost what I was expecting. The divine spirit shield reduces all damage by 30%, it's rather hard to top that without potentially unbalancing the game. The part of the DG shields I like is their reduction of specific types of damage, unlike the DSS reduction of all damage. The mage shield absorbs melee attacks, melee absorbs range, and range absorbs magic. The concept had potential, but the fundamental flaw was the incredibly low percent of reduced damage.

 

Instead of trying to "outclass" the DSS in at least one aspect, these shields only reduce "up to 20%" (which is now said to only be 14%), and only work against specific kinds of attacks. So these dungeoneering kiteshields not only work against specific attacks, but also reduce damage less. However, this is offset by their other combat bonuses, and they're much easier to obtain. The combat bonuses of the chaotic kite have quite a few defense points up on the DSS, the farseer kite has almost as much magic attack as an arcane spirit shield, and the eagle eye kite has almost as much magic defence as a spectral kiteshield.

 

The dungeoneering kiteshields aren't "useless", but in the case of damage reduction, they are greatly outshone by the divine spirit shield. It makes sense though, factoring in the availability, and the other stats/bonuses. However, I think if there are to be new shields to, in any way, shape, or form, beat the DSS in damage reduction, it would have to be limited to certain combat styles, or have some other kind of drawback, such as reduced stats.

[Bladewing]

if you have used a divine you would know know how ridiculously overpowered they are

 

it will be hard for a shield to surpass divine

[TheKoolKandy]

If a shield is ever made that is more powerful than a divine I will be amazed. Especially if it makes the divine look like a CKS in comparison because divines are.... divine.

 

If they were to introduce a more powerful shield if would have to have major ristrictions on use (like extreme potions in pvp).

[Blutters]

• Create something even stronger which will then dwarf the spirit shields, but would be even harder to get. These would then have to be worth billions in todays market and could unbalance the game.
  
• Create shields which are inferior which then get thrown to the floor in disgust as they can't stand up to the current best. This then, as I have said brings complaints.
  

 

They are stuck in a hole as far as shields are now concerned. Their mistake was to create something incredibly strong instead of a slow gradual change and increase.

 

What I am saying, in short, is that it is unfair to compare spirit shields to others and then complain when the other shields can't stand up to them. Jagex have made the mistake which they now cannot undo.

Why not mention Abyssal Whips and Barrows armor in the same argument?

They basically have taken your first bulleted point and applied it to Abyssal Whips - the Chaotic weapons are unbalancedly overpowered, but harder to get than their counterparts.

[Kimberly]

They are compared to because they're the best. Everyone's looking for what will trump them or what will be acceptable, cheaper alternatives. And it's completely fair to do so. We might be playing this game with a very short term focus, at times, but everything will be surpassed eventually. The day when gear and complexities stop improving is the day the game ends. And with Jagex's profits ever-increasing, that's not bound to happen any time soon. So when you see people comparing gear to the existing high-tier combat gear--gear they've been using for years, which feel like a long time--it's only normal. And it's normal to hope that you'd be playing to see the next tier to be pushed through. It's not going to stop. And it's not wrong.

 

It's normal. It's the progression of time. And it's certainly not a mistake. Deal with it.

[Sir_Squab]

The concept of the dungeoneering kiteshields was almost what I was expecting. The divine spirit shield reduces all damage by 30%, it's rather hard to top that without potentially unbalancing the game. The part of the DG shields I like is their reduction of specific types of damage, unlike the DSS reduction of all damage. The mage shield absorbs melee attacks, melee absorbs range, and range absorbs magic. The concept had potential, but the fundamental flaw was the incredibly low percent of reduced damage.

 

Instead of trying to "outclass" the DSS in at least one aspect, these shields only reduce "up to 20%" (which is now said to only be 14%), and only work against specific kinds of attacks. So these dungeoneering kiteshields not only work against specific attacks, but also reduce damage less. However, this is offset by their other combat bonuses, and they're much easier to obtain. The combat bonuses of the chaotic kite have quite a few defense points up on the DSS, the farseer kite has almost as much magic attack as an arcane spirit shield, and the eagle eye kite has almost as much magic defence as a spectral kiteshield.

 

The dungeoneering kiteshields aren't "useless", but in the case of damage reduction, they are greatly outshone by the divine spirit shield. It makes sense though, factoring in the availability, and the other stats/bonuses. However, I think if there are to be new shields to, in any way, shape, or form, beat the DSS in damage reduction, it would have to be limited to certain combat styles, or have some other kind of drawback, such as reduced stats.

 

Problem is, as it has been pointed it, it's damage absorbing effect is so low it has virtually no effect. If they did what players thought they did in the first place, might be useful. Or take the 14% and 7% or whatever reduction % it is, but apply that to all hits. Either that, or honestly BOOST ALL THE DEFENSIVE STATS INTO THE 100 RANGE to make them worth it. K, maybe less for mage, but still. Give them uber stats OR make the damage absorption do something.

[Zaaps1]

Nerf Corp -> Option A

 

Not saying its a good route, but you all know Jagex would do it.

[green9090]

Nerf Corp -> Option A

 

Not saying its a good route, but you all know Jagex would do it.

They've been slowly doing this since corp came out. Corp was EXTREMELY difficult to kill when it was first released, but with modern gear, prayers, and potions, it's a joke. Soloing isn't even that hard anymore (though still prohibitively expensive). As our combat abilities grow, corp will become more and more accessible as a boss, and more farmable for high level teams.

 

To be honest, we're FAR overdue for a boss equal to or harder than corp. It's getting pretty boring.

[Star_Fox]

People are overlooking the prayer soak that comes with the Divine. This is ultimately the deal breaker in many situations. First, you

cannot camp at certain monsters because without prayer, the shield acts like a normal 3rd age kite, making it relatively useless against

DFS or defender. Secondly, going into safe pvp like soul wars will be difficult since you constantly have to refill prayer points.

Lastly, they are expensive. This persuades most people to look into alternatives such as the chaotic shield or even rune defender

giving "some" balance to the game. Jagex has done a good job in making these shields incredibly hard to get. These shields should

only be accessed by the elite and it strengthens the boundrie between the strong and weak because without them, we would all

be basically the same.

[green9090]

People are overlooking the prayer soak that comes with the Divine. This is ultimately the deal breaker in many situations. First, you

cannot camp at certain monsters because without prayer, the shield acts like a normal 3rd age kite (Which is relatively useless against

DFS or defender). Secondly, going into safe pvp like soul wars will be difficult since you constantly have to refill prayer points.

Lastly, they are expensive. This persuades most people to look into alternatives such as the chaotic shield or even rune defender

giving "some" balance to the game. Jagex has done a good job in making these shields incredibly hard to get. These shields should

only be accessed by the elite and it strengthens the boundrie between the strong and weak because without them, we would all

be basically the same.

A couple points: first, the prayer drain feature of the divine should not be a deal breaker anywhere where you'd be using a tank shield. If you're taking little enough damage that drinking the extra prayer potion is more a hindrance than the damage soak is a help, you should almost certainly be using a rune defender or other offensive shield instead.

 

Second, chaotic kite is not the second choice here. If you're for whatever reason not able or willing to use a divine or elysian shield, DFS will be the runner up rather than the chaotic kite 99% of the time. The DG shields are REALLY BAD, not just "bawww not better than divine."

[TheAncient]

overall rankings for shields

 

PvP (Tribrid): Div>Ely>Arc>FKS>DFS>CKS>Spec>EEKS. Defender is useful but in a different way so it is not ranked.

PvM (Slayer): Defender > All

PvM (MH exlcuding Rex): Div>Ely>Spec>DFS>CKS>EEKS. EEKS is higher against arma. Defender is useful but in a different way so it is not ranked.

PvM (Rex): Div>Ely>Arc>FKS

[Bladewing]

if you are just doing rex i think arcane > divine to be honest

[TheAncient]

if you are just doing rex i think arcane > divine to be honest

 

scrubs do rex alone

i mean for tribing/2.5

 

but yea for solo rex arc>div

[Blutters]

I gotta ask why you consider DFS better than CKS...

[TheAncient]

I gotta ask why you consider DFS better than CKS...

 

Strength bonus; +7 is hardly insignificant

+15 Magic defense is also huge. ~10 ranged isnt.

Also CKS is usually lost on death

 

CKS>DFS only in range vs range.

[green9090]

I gotta ask why you consider DFS better than CKS...

 

Strength bonus; +7 is hardly insignificant

+15 Magic defense is also huge. ~10 ranged isnt.

Also CKS is usually lost on death

 

CKS>DFS only in range vs range.

+1, especially the magic defense. People don't realize how few places you don't need magic defense in addition to ranged/melee. All of the major potential uses for the CKS in PvM fail due to horribly inferior magic defense.

[NastyJenny]

I think they had good intentions, aka our poor noobs can't afford Spirit Shields and whine et's give them a downgrade version and try to make them look semi-decent in KB... I didn't even consider getting any of the chaotic shields even with the KB been right. Blocking some damage over 200 really doesn't sound great at all.

A shield is a niche use anyway for a high level like me that doesn't boss-hunt often, i mostly do slayer which means i wear a shield once in a blue moon for Wyverns lol.

 

They did imo at least a good job with how chaotics degrade, rapier pe beating up whip for a reasonnable cost in single combat with the drawback of being exponentially more expensive to use in multi. Make it degrade just by time spend in combat and you destroyed completly the slayer skill.

 

Balance is hard to get and i sure more often than not wonder what Jagex smokes after updates :wall: