Why can't F2P have...?

[SirIzenhime]

rune arrows + yew bow (can gravite use rune arrows?)

 

The yew bows have the same bonus as gravite, that would make it completely useless (and it's already useless)

[vandennn]

seeming as though f2p get green dragonhide they should at least be given the option to make it rather than having to buy it.. we should also be granted access to dragon bones.. prayer is ridiculously long and tedious to train so we should atleast be given some way of making it better.. not to mention that the green dragons do occur in parts of the map that are f2p... it will also make the game more interesting for f2p with the re-introduction of the wilderness.. u might see a few more people in there and have the wildy serve another purpose

[vandennn]

green dragons :mrgreen:

[Youmu]

You don't need to make a whole new topic for this... could have just copy pasted that post of yours into the "why can't f2p have" thread.

 

As for green drags, I don't care for them.

[vandennn]

A Boss more exciting than Elvarg.

We have dungeoneering bosses and in some cases monsters.

 

I think KBD might be a tad bit on the difficult side for f2p though.

 

 

 

i agree.. given the weapons f2p r limited too ill find it very interesting to see someone wearing such items and using very basic weapons defeating a KBD.. thats just my opinion though..

[vandennn]

just thought it would gain more publicity here sorry

[anonymouse_]

why

[Legionwizard]

I support actually, hoping long term prices will drop. I know pure f2p's that have to level prayer burying a ridiculous amount of big bones, the gap between f2p's best way and that for p2p is overwhelming (as in too overwhelming).

[Pluckey]

Giving green dragons to f2p would lower prices way too much.

 

 

I do support them being able to craft green d'hide and bury d bones.

[pulli23]

Giving green dragons to f2p would lower prices way too much.

 

 

I do support them being able to craft green d'hide and bury d bones.

Actually: I think the prices would rise.. F2p suddenly got a 3 times as cheap, 2 times as fast prayer training method..

[foursideking]

Meh...I'm truly against this. P2p is ridiculously cheap ($ wise) now, and with the market the way it is, do you really want another moneypile for merch clans? I would, however, be in favor of a daily event in f2p that gives you pray xp...something like 15x your combat level per day....

[Omali]

seeming as though f2p get green dragonhide they should at least be given the option to make it rather than having to buy it.. we should also be granted access to dragon bones.. prayer is ridiculously long and tedious to train so we should atleast be given some way of making it better.. not to mention that the green dragons do occur in parts of the map that are f2p... it will also make the game more interesting for f2p with the re-introduction of the wilderness.. u might see a few more people in there and have the wildy serve another purpose

 

There are enough bots on p2p at green dragons, the last thing we need is for all the f2p worlds to be swamped by green dragon bots as well.

 

And free to play has the option to craft dragonhide. It costs $7 a month.

[being_true]

seeming as though f2p get green dragonhide they should at least be given the option to make it rather than having to buy it.. we should also be granted access to dragon bones.. prayer is ridiculously long and tedious to train so we should atleast be given some way of making it better.. not to mention that the green dragons do occur in parts of the map that are f2p... it will also make the game more interesting for f2p with the re-introduction of the wilderness.. u might see a few more people in there and have the wildy serve another purpose

 

There are enough bots on p2p at green dragons, the last thing we need is for all the f2p worlds to be swamped by green dragon bots as well.

 

And free to play has the option to craft dragonhide. It costs $7 a month.

exactly :thumbup:

[amitoz]

Honestly, the more f2p gets, the more they beg.

 

Don't turn this into a Germany of a Munich.

[Pluckey]

Honestly, the more f2p gets, the more they beg.

 

Don't turn this into a Germany of a Munich.

 

 

 

Not always.

 

 

 

 

F2P should be updated more honestly.

[Zaaps1]

Tbh I'm tired of every thread with the word "f2p" in it evolving into posts saying "just get p2p" or something similar. Everyone knows that playing in p2p is more efficient, and it is besides the point. It's safe to say that every f2p'er who complains or argues for something new for f2p acknowledges the fact that the grass is greener on the p2p side (content-wise). Is there really a reason to mention it each and every time?

 

People are people. They have lives that are complex. Sometimes, it's just not as simple as "for $6 a month you can be 10x more efficient". Obviously, if the player wanted to have membership and was able to do so, he or she would already have it? Obviously, players know that members is far more efficient and better content-wise than nonmembers. Why bring this up at all? What do any of us know about each player's personal lives? Do any of us know why certain players have chosen or have been forced to remain f2p?

 

Of course, we can think up of various reasons. Then we could go ahead and refute those reasons. Does this give us any further jurisdiction over someone else's life and decisions?

 

I wouldn't waste my breath.

 

I apologize for my mini-rant. It just seems that everyone these days immediately go ahead and say that getting p2p is the answer to every f2p'ers problems, ignoring the actual discussion at hand. I'm not pointing out anyone in this thread; it's just a general trend I've observed and tbh, it's not a very enjoyable thing to see.

 

Anyways, back on topic:

 

If the question is whether or not to give dbones and green dhide to nonmembers, I say that it would have to follow that green dragons be given to nonmembers. There's got to be a huge influx of supply to counteract that demand. Personally, I think this is risky territory. We can guess, but I don't think anyone can say for sure whether or not the new f2p supply will outpace the new f2p demand or not.

[Omali]

I apologize for my mini-rant. It just seems that everyone these days immediately go ahead and say that getting p2p is the answer to every f2p'ers problems, ignoring the actual discussion at hand. I'm not pointing out anyone in this thread; it's just a general trend I've observed and tbh, it's not a very enjoyable thing to see.

 

Perpetual free players are there to be cannon fodder for paying members, this is an attribute that most Western companies will deny, but a lot of free to play Asian cash shoppers will admit this, some quite openly.

 

In "buy to win" models, the perpetual freeloaders (as I've heard one company refer to them) act as fodder for paying players. That guy who is willing to spend hundreds of dollars every month for high powered equipment? The free players are there to be his victim, to give him a gigantic e-pen0r, and get him to continue spending each month so he can be better than someone at a video game by paying his way rather than using skill. In freemium games like Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest II Extended, and Dungeons and Dragons Online, free players are there to fill in the world. They populate the game, and not only bring in new users through word of mouth, but they allow for PR news stories to bring in more players by showcasing how many hundred thousand/million accounts they have registered.

 

Jagex uses free players as a method of populating the game, and because the perpetual free players will aid them in bringing in potential customers, as well as inflating their "registered user" number so they can get in the news every couple years, or the Guinness Book. And with the advertising being how it is, Jagex is in a rare position where free players are not a money sink.

 

Jagex releases things to free players because, increasingly nowadays, it gets them in the gaming press and gets people coming back to try the game out, and hopefully resubscribe or just be a source of ad revenue. I've seen more Runescape news on MMO news websites based around game updates in 2010 than I've seen in the years leading up to it.

 

They want free to play to be a "complete game" because they've embraced the perpetual freeloaders as a bigger in quantity, if far lower in quality (in terms of revenue) customer base. However, in no way is it a necessity based relationship. Jagex has a pretty good grasp on how to entice free players to become members, and they've generally managed to maintain a system that seduces potential customers into becoming customers by throwing freebies, while at the same time ensuring that the perpetual freeloaders are never spoiled.

 

Of course, we can think up of various reasons. Then we could go ahead and refute those reasons. Does this give us any further jurisdiction over someone else's life and decisions?

 

You're talking about a service. There aren't very many MMOs that offer the amount of gameplay Jagex offers completely free.

[Ichimaru]

A f2p asking for more content is like a kid going to the gas stop and asking for a coke and a bag of chips for free. The cashier will say "kid, just go get the 6$ or gtfo, we don't give things away for free here". Kid then proceeds to get a low wage part-time job and at his first check receives enough money to buy a yearly supply of cokes and chips and stops complaining. The end.

[Zaaps1]

I apologize for my mini-rant. It just seems that everyone these days immediately go ahead and say that getting p2p is the answer to every f2p'ers problems, ignoring the actual discussion at hand. I'm not pointing out anyone in this thread; it's just a general trend I've observed and tbh, it's not a very enjoyable thing to see.

 

Perpetual free players are there to be cannon fodder for paying members, this is an attribute that most Western companies will deny, but a lot of free to play Asian cash shoppers will admit this, some quite openly.

 

In "buy to win" models, the perpetual freeloaders (as I've heard one company refer to them) act as fodder for paying players. That guy who is willing to spend hundreds of dollars every month for high powered equipment? The free players are there to be his victim, to give him a gigantic e-pen0r, and get him to continue spending each month so he can be better than someone at a video game by paying his way rather than using skill. In freemium games like Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest II Extended, and Dungeons and Dragons Online, free players are there to fill in the world. They populate the game, and not only bring in new users through word of mouth, but they allow for PR news stories to bring in more players by showcasing how many hundred thousand/million accounts they have registered.

 

Jagex uses free players as a method of populating the game, and because the perpetual free players will aid them in bringing in potential customers, as well as inflating their "registered user" number so they can get in the news every couple years, or the Guinness Book. And with the advertising being how it is, Jagex is in a rare position where free players are not a money sink.

 

Jagex releases things to free players because, increasingly nowadays, it gets them in the gaming press and gets people coming back to try the game out, and hopefully resubscribe or just be a source of ad revenue. I've seen more Runescape news on MMO news websites based around game updates in 2010 than I've seen in the years leading up to it.

 

They want free to play to be a "complete game" because they've embraced the perpetual freeloaders as a bigger in quantity, if far lower in quality (in terms of revenue) customer base. However, in no way is it a necessity based relationship. Jagex has a pretty good grasp on how to entice free players to become members, and they've generally managed to maintain a system that seduces potential customers into becoming customers by throwing freebies, while at the same time ensuring that the perpetual freeloaders are never spoiled.

 

Of course, we can think up of various reasons. Then we could go ahead and refute those reasons. Does this give us any further jurisdiction over someone else's life and decisions?

 

You're talking about a service. There aren't very many MMOs that offer the amount of gameplay Jagex offers completely free.

You've answered the question of why Jagex has f2p and it's function brilliantly, but my problem is with people just telling f2p'ers to go out and buy p2p and leaving it at that to end all their problems.

 

Here's what I mean: People know p2p is better. However, some people are still f2p despite this. Why? It is not up to us to judge or even to know, but considering that fact there's certainly no point in reminding them of this fact, since all it does it lead the discussion off-topic and fails to answer any question or contribute to any discussion started by said player.

 

It's just how I feel on the matter, sorry for bringing it away from the main point about green dragons.

[vandennn]

that is exactly my point.. obviously there is reason that f2p remain f2p and it is none of our business to know.. for me however i choose to remain f2p because i simply dont play enough runescape to feel a need to upgrade and feel as though its just money wasted.. plus the fact that i havent completely mastered the free version of the game so y is there a need to upgrade anyway?? and because im happy with the f2p system in place atm y would i pay for membership for a whole range and variety of upgrades when all im really asking for is one measly little green dragon..

 

i was a member for a few months (2-3) and just felt as though i wasnt satisfied with the amount of actual time i speant playing.. so decided to just play casual f2p..

 

one solution i have pondered on throughout the years is to have 2 different member systems.. one being the premium membership which offers all there is to offer now and the other being basic membership which essentially offers more than f2p but not as much as there is to offer with complete membership.. thats something i believe many ppl would invest in because they simply do not feel the need to upgrade to something they will never use.. y not buy membership that offers satisfaction rather than meaningless quests, items, adventures that most players will never see useful..

 

just my opinion but yea feel free to flame me (i know its going to happen none the less)

[Omali]

Here's what I mean: People know p2p is better. However, some people are still f2p despite this. Why? It is not up to us to judge or even to know, but considering that fact there's certainly no point in reminding them of this fact, since all it does it lead the discussion off-topic and fails to answer any question or contribute to any discussion started by said player.

 

It's just how I feel on the matter, sorry for bringing it away from the main point about green dragons.

 

In business, companies don't care why you can't pay, just that you aren't paying (insurance/banks notwithstanding). Whenever this discussion is brought up, I attack the fact that the person does not/can not pay for membership, without regard as to why they don't/can't. At the end of the day, you are using a service, and "I can't pay/don't want to pay" is not a valid excuse for why a company should release something for free, ever. Compared to Western MMOs, Jagex is very giving. Find most MMOs that are freemium and none of them offer the same experience Runescape does, without the big stick beating you about the face to subscribe.

 

I mentioned Asian free to play MMOs in an earlier post, and I want to expand upon that. When my MMO website was still in its infancy, I managed to get a talk in with a few Asian MMO publishers (many of these are republished in the West by companies like Frogster and Hanbitsoft). One of them told me that the longer an account is active without buying in-game tokens, the more likely they are to be banned for minor infractions. Why? Because after two years of playing without paying for service, the company decides you are no longer a prospective buyer, and therefore a liability rather than a potential customer. One of them, when I asked if they were worried the player would quit rather than start a new account, said that a good percentage of players (mainly ones with guilds) would set up a new account, and would actually start buying cash shop items (generally double exp and gear) to catch up to their old toons. As for the ones that quit entirely? "[bleep] 'em" is the response.

 

You'll notice I keep away from using certain catchphrases that a lot of members use. Giving free players green dragonhide isn't going to dilute the value of membership, nor is anyone going to say "hey, green dragonhide is free. Guess I don't need this membership *cancel*," because the update is too small to have that any kind of overall effect on the game other than "hey, there's some better armor for rangers/mages/melee hybrids." What I am concerned with is how badly maintained the green dragons are already, with enough bots on members worlds camping them as it is, without a hundred more worlds filled with botters bringing down green dragonhide prices.

 

I suggest you take a look at my website, because despite what you may take from this thread, I've always been a major supporter of subscription games going freemium ala Runescape (in fact, it's something of a highlight), and have a growing database with the purpose of helping people pay as little as possible for their games. I imagine even harder to believe is I have an initiative starting in February called "How Free Can You Be?" where I will be looking at various triple-a MMOs, as well as putting up interviews, with the sole purpose of finding MMOs with the best content for absolutely free.

 

So perhaps this is just me spending far too much of my time in a business frame of mind, but I do have issues with how this would imbalance the green dragonhide market.

[vandennn]

Here's what I mean: People know p2p is better. However, some people are still f2p despite this. Why? It is not up to us to judge or even to know, but considering that fact there's certainly no point in reminding them of this fact, since all it does it lead the discussion off-topic and fails to answer any question or contribute to any discussion started by said player.

 

It's just how I feel on the matter, sorry for bringing it away from the main point about green dragons.

 

In business, companies don't care why you can't pay, just that you aren't paying (insurance/banks notwithstanding). Whenever this discussion is brought up, I attack the fact that the person does not/can not pay for membership, without regard as to why they don't/can't. At the end of the day, you are using a service, and "I can't pay/don't want to pay" is not a valid excuse for why a company should release something for free, ever. Compared to Western MMOs, Jagex is very giving. Find most MMOs that are freemium and none of them offer the same experience Runescape does, without the big stick beating you about the face to subscribe.

 

I mentioned Asian free to play MMOs in an earlier post, and I want to expand upon that. When my MMO website was still in its infancy, I managed to get a talk in with a few Asian MMO publishers (many of these are republished in the West by companies like Frogster and Hanbitsoft). One of them told me that the longer an account is active without buying in-game tokens, the more likely they are to be banned for minor infractions. Why? Because after two years of playing without paying for service, the company decides you are no longer a prospective buyer, and therefore a liability rather than a potential customer. One of them, when I asked if they were worried the player would quit rather than start a new account, said that a good percentage of players (mainly ones with guilds) would set up a new account, and would actually start buying cash shop items (generally double exp and gear) to catch up to their old toons. As for the ones that quit entirely? "[bleep] 'em" is the response.

 

You'll notice I keep away from using certain catchphrases that a lot of members use. Giving free players green dragonhide isn't going to dilute the value of membership, nor is anyone going to say "hey, green dragonhide is free. Guess I don't need this membership *cancel*," because the update is too small to have that any kind of overall effect on the game other than "hey, there's some better armor for rangers/mages/melee hybrids." What I am concerned with is how badly maintained the green dragons are already, with enough bots on members worlds camping them as it is, without a hundred more worlds filled with botters bringing down green dragonhide prices.

 

I suggest you take a look at my website, because despite what you may take from this thread, I've always been a major supporter of subscription games going freemium ala Runescape (in fact, it's something of a highlight), and have a growing database with the purpose of helping people pay as little as possible for their games. I imagine even harder to believe is I have an initiative starting in February called "How Free Can You Be?" where I will be looking at various triple-a MMOs, as well as putting up interviews, with the sole purpose of finding MMOs with the best content for absolutely free.

 

So perhaps this is just me spending far too much of my time in a business frame of mind, but I do have issues with how this would imbalance the green dragonhide market.

 

 

 

 

not going to bother reading that but im guessing ur just argument is u want us to pay.. which i completely understand..

 

just remember this is a "rant" forum so expect some pretty wild and far fetched arguments and topics being posted and discussed.. i honestly feel as though this topic is completely reasonable..

[Zaaps1]

Here's what I mean: People know p2p is better. However, some people are still f2p despite this. Why? It is not up to us to judge or even to know, but considering that fact there's certainly no point in reminding them of this fact, since all it does it lead the discussion off-topic and fails to answer any question or contribute to any discussion started by said player.

 

It's just how I feel on the matter, sorry for bringing it away from the main point about green dragons.

 

In business, companies don't care why you can't pay, just that you aren't paying (insurance/banks notwithstanding). Whenever this discussion is brought up, I attack the fact that the person does not/can not pay for membership, without regard as to why they don't/can't. At the end of the day, you are using a service, and "I can't pay/don't want to pay" is not a valid excuse for why a company should release something for free, ever. Compared to Western MMOs, Jagex is very giving. Find most MMOs that are freemium and none of them offer the same experience Runescape does, without the big stick beating you about the face to subscribe.

 

I mentioned Asian free to play MMOs in an earlier post, and I want to expand upon that. When my MMO website was still in its infancy, I managed to get a talk in with a few Asian MMO publishers (many of these are republished in the West by companies like Frogster and Hanbitsoft). One of them told me that the longer an account is active without buying in-game tokens, the more likely they are to be banned for minor infractions. Why? Because after two years of playing without paying for service, the company decides you are no longer a prospective buyer, and therefore a liability rather than a potential customer. One of them, when I asked if they were worried the player would quit rather than start a new account, said that a good percentage of players (mainly ones with guilds) would set up a new account, and would actually start buying cash shop items (generally double exp and gear) to catch up to their old toons. As for the ones that quit entirely? "[bleep] 'em" is the response.

 

You'll notice I keep away from using certain catchphrases that a lot of members use. Giving free players green dragonhide isn't going to dilute the value of membership, nor is anyone going to say "hey, green dragonhide is free. Guess I don't need this membership *cancel*," because the update is too small to have that any kind of overall effect on the game other than "hey, there's some better armor for rangers/mages/melee hybrids." What I am concerned with is how badly maintained the green dragons are already, with enough bots on members worlds camping them as it is, without a hundred more worlds filled with botters bringing down green dragonhide prices.

 

I suggest you take a look at my website, because despite what you may take from this thread, I've always been a major supporter of subscription games going freemium ala Runescape (in fact, it's something of a highlight), and have a growing database with the purpose of helping people pay as little as possible for their games. I imagine even harder to believe is I have an initiative starting in February called "How Free Can You Be?" where I will be looking at various triple-a MMOs, as well as putting up interviews, with the sole purpose of finding MMOs with the best content for absolutely free.

 

So perhaps this is just me spending far too much of my time in a business frame of mind, but I do have issues with how this would imbalance the green dragonhide market.

 

I read all that, and I see what you're trying to say about the necessity of such tactics to make free players pay. But I feel you are looking at it too much from a buisness standpoint here, and not a player-to-player standpoint. No accusations here, just how I feel.

 

From a business standpoint (ignoring the fact that f2p ads generate slight revenue), f2p is extremely unimportant compared to p2p existing solely to create p2p customers. Thus there's little reason for Jagex to care about new f2p content.

 

This is most likely an outdated figure, but I believe 7% of Jagex's income comes from f2p ads. It's more likely about 5% now. By this logic, 5% of all updates should be made to be f2p-compatible, outside of game-engine updates with obviously affect both unconditionally. Therefore there's logic to players suggesting new f2p content, because unlike completely free games they carry a little weight. I know this isn't a point you brought up at all, but I just wanted to establish the fact that f2p does deserve some updates, in case this fact needed to be called on later.

 

From a business standpoint, you're right. There's no reason for Jagex to care why you can't pay. They just want you to pay.

 

But looking at it from a player-to-player standpoint, the "why" is never part of the issue. If someone is suggesting "bring green dragons to f2p wildy", the correct response is "no, because..." or "yes, because...", not "get p2p and stop complaining".

[Omali]

But looking at it from a player-to-player standpoint, the "why" is never part of the issue. If someone is suggesting "bring green dragons to f2p wildy", the correct response is "no, because..." or "yes, because...", not "get p2p and stop complaining".

 

I already gave a "no, because..." my because was due to the already existing issue of green dragon bots that would only become exponentially worse by opening up a hundred new worlds and getting rid of one hurdle of membership.

[Zaaps1]

But looking at it from a player-to-player standpoint, the "why" is never part of the issue. If someone is suggesting "bring green dragons to f2p wildy", the correct response is "no, because..." or "yes, because...", not "get p2p and stop complaining".

 

I already gave a "no, because..." my because was due to the already existing issue of green dragon bots that would only become exponentially worse by opening up a hundred new worlds and getting rid of one hurdle of membership.

Oh yes, I know, that's why I said I wasn't actually referring or accusing anyone in this thread. Everyone here has given their opinion on the matter. It was just a general statement on how many people are acting nowadays.

 

"I think f2p should get X because of Y"

"Get p2p"