Oh wow this thread is going fast.

 

Now repeat that calculation for the avarage Joe that uses mystic, full rune and dhides

 

The average joe isn't going around one-hitting people with Dragon Claws.

 

No, but other people do; and when they can 1hit Joe I think that is not anywhere near acceptable.

 

Then ban Dragon Claws, because you can already get a level 70 with Dragon Claws able to one-hit other level 70s, with or without Extremes. Ban Dark Bow. Ban AGS. Ban Vesta's Longsword (which is more of a 2-hit than 1-hit, but still really deadly). Our gap between offense and defense lies in how strong our equipment is, NOT in what potions we're using.

Oh wow this thread is going fast.

 

Now repeat that calculation for the avarage Joe that uses mystic, full rune and dhides

 

The average joe isn't going around one-hitting people with Dragon Claws.

 

No, but other people do; and when they can 1hit Joe I think that is not anywhere near acceptable.

 

Then ban Dragon Claws, because you can already get a level 70 with Dragon Claws able to one-hit other level 70s, with or without Extremes. Ban Dark Bow. Ban AGS. Ban Vesta's Longsword (which is more of a 2-hit than 1-hit, but still really deadly). Our gap between offense and defense lies in how strong our equipment is, NOT in what potions we're using.

I'm not even against considering removing (or 'nerfing') those weapons you mentioned, but allowing extremes/overloads is a very sizable jump in dps/max hit.

 

I have used strong range potions from dungeoneering and i can tell you that near-1-hitting hits are very common.

Hmmm how big of a jump is it?

Hmmm how big of a jump is it?

 

Just like a 50% increase in the potential of a one hit ko from a dark bow. aint much.

No, because they are overpowered. I don't want people hitting 750s with handcannons and 700-700 with dbow specs.

 

 

Don't go in the wilderness then. The wilderness is ment to be and I quote from Jagex "A dangerous place."

Very stupid thing to say.

 

A dangerous place is NOT somewhere that people can 1 hit you with something like a DDS.

 

Dangerous place != Certain death.

 

Also, i never assumed max offense. I assumed PKing gear, in which people easily hit 350s+ with a gmaul, without extremes. How the [bleep] would extreme attack accuracy be fair on any level? I have successfully maul rushed people with 90 attack and strength from 900+lp, do you really want me to have extremes?

 

... you do realize the difference between Super Attack and Extreme Attack / Overload is only 7 levels, even at level 99?

 

Again, you do realize that the difference between Super Strength and Extreme Strength / Overload is only 7 levels, even at level 99?

 

You also realize that while Extreme Magic potions are prohibited, Wolpertingers can be used (it won't even increase your CB level anymore) for exactly the same boost?

 

Also, if you're already mauling people to death with 90 Attack and Strength, I don't think Extremes will really change that up a whole bunch. Attack is just chance to hit - it's like saying now, 3 sides of the dice will kill you instead of 2. Sure, it makes you more powerful, but the possibility of being one hit was always there. Strength is a slightly bigger issue, but even then things like Turmoil add a lot more to damage than Extreme Strength does.

 

If any potion is really a threat, it's Extreme Ranging, since normal Ranging Potions are so weak.

7 levels can make a big difference, if it doesn't why bother getting the extra 150m worth of herblore levels?

 

Magic can't be used to instantly KO someone. Yes, it can be powerful, but a max hit of 450ish is hardly something to fear in comparison to instant death via dark bows, hand cannons and granite mauls.

 

Granite mauls are VERY inaccurate, the extra attack levels will make a big difference. The possibility of being one hit was always there, but it is a very, very small possibility. With extremes it would be edging on likely.

 

Extremes wouldn't make the wilderness dangerous, they would make it somewhere that unless you had extreme defence potions and hella good armour you could simply NOT enter with any sort of risk. PKing would be dead.

If you dont like to see or deal with high hits go pk in f2p. I'm telling you. It seems like all these "old" pkers dont want extremes because it makes the fights shorter. Go back and freaking fight max melees in f2p in full rune if u wana long fight ffs.

If you dont like to see or deal with high hits go pk in f2p. I'm telling you. It seems like all these "old" pkers dont want extremes because it makes the fights shorter. Go back and freaking fight max melees in f2p in full rune if u wana long fight ffs.

 

Ikr, one shotting and normal hits with a hit above 600 are a perfectly reasonable standard for a fight. Hell, one shotting isn't fast enough, we need like, magic spells that have 50% chance of an instant kill too.

 

Stupid old school nubs l2 play brokenscape.

That potential 1hit chance is increased by much more than 50% lol.

 

If you dont like to see or deal with high hits go pk in f2p. I'm telling you. It seems like all these "old" pkers dont want extremes because it makes the fights shorter. Go back and freaking fight max melees in f2p in full rune if u wana long fight ffs.

 

That 'go f2p if you don't like' attitude is a fallacy just like 'go duel arena and set potions to OFF' and sadly I've seen jmods use it.

(regarding summoning in pvp)

Allow the pots and make them visable if they want, but PLEASE don't allow spec restore potions!

I wana see someone one hit me while im wearing armor...because it has honestly never happened.

I'm not even against considering removing (or 'nerfing') those weapons you mentioned, but allowing extremes/overloads is a very sizable jump in dps/max hit.

 

Really? Why don't we look at how big of a jump this max hit really is.

 

Since you want to look at a "strong" player versus the "average" joe, let's use this situation. You have a level 70 pure, meant for hunting and killing other players, up against a level 70 player who's relatively balanced combatwise.

 

Your level 70 pure has the following stats:

 

60 Attack

90 Strength

70 Constitution

31 Prayer

 

Your level 70 "average" player has the following stats:

 

56 Attack/Strength/Defense

58 Constitution

43 Prayer (Assume he doesn't get protect melee on in time though, because if you assume they're using the right prayer, you're never one-hitting anyone.)

 

With Super Strength Potions, the Pure is doing up to 659 with D Claw specials. Even with damage soaking, your average joe is very, very dead.

 

Now let's put in Extreme Strength Potions. The Pure is now doing up to 693 with D Claw specials. That's a big hike now? An extra 40 points of damage when the Pure is already overkilling you by twice that? And that's with a special attack that amplifies the effect of the potion, too, because the damage hike is being represented through multiple hits.

 

Let's look at the converse. Let's say we ban all special attacks and melee weapons stronger than a D Scimitar. What do you know, now the Pure is only doing up to 346 damage. The "average joe" is still probably going to die very quickly, but at least it's not a one-hit. What happens if we add Extremes? 364. Whoop-dee-f-ing-doo. Not even 20 damage.

 

This is why picking on extremes of all things as being responsible for one-hit kos is ridiculous. Good weapons backed with good PvP stats are going to demolish mediocre equipment and average stats. Extremes are not going to change that. Good equipment and good defensive stats are going to save you from OHKOs. Again, extremes are not doing to change that.

It's ridiculous that those who actively to train their skills in order to attain benefits shouldn't receive an advantage in PvP combat. Anyone can get extremes, it's your fault if you don't have them, and everyone else shouldn't have to suffer because of it.

It's ridiculous that those who actively to train their skills in order to attain benefits shouldn't receive an advantage in PvP combat. Anyone can get extremes, it's your fault if you don't have them, and everyone else shouldn't have to suffer because of it.

 

Dude i know, I'm suffering so much because i can't use extremes. It's like, impossible for me to ko and win fights without broken potions.

It basically comes down to the fact that PVP is currently terribly unbalanced in terms of skill vs luck, DPS vs LP. Do we really want to make it worse?

 

Just because it is already bad doesn't mean it should be made worse.

It basically comes down to the fact that PVP is currently terribly unbalanced in terms of skill vs luck, DPS vs LP. Do we really want to make it worse?

 

Just because it is already bad doesn't mean it should be made worse.

Not made worse, perhaps. But why extremes and not special attacks? Removing special attacks would be the more obvious choice imo.

Because (forgive me if I'm wrong) but aren't extremes already disallowed from PVP? Special attacks have always been allowed. Adding extremes would only make things worse, it has no benefit.

It basically comes down to the fact that PVP is currently terribly unbalanced in terms of skill vs luck, DPS vs LP. Do we really want to make it worse?

 

Just because it is already bad doesn't mean it should be made worse.

 

Is it? As I already pointed out, optimal defense matches optimal offense pretty well. The only reason it's imbalanced is that optimal defense is harder to achieve right now. This could change. In fact, I'm sure it will change, if only because no one is really hunting Nex right now.

 

And of course you have to consider that even if Extremes make it worse, there are benefits.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, I've hunted Chaos Elemental many times with my new potions. It's a boss, and my primary reason for earning Extreme Potions was to use them against bosses. In my case, I like Herblore as a skill, but I know many people who detest it, yet sunk 100M+ into it so they could be more effective against bosses. Now you're telling them, without much of a warning, that one of the bosses is about to become more rewarding, yet you can not use the potions you spend 100M to access against it? When it's part of the reason they sunk that 100M in the first place? Chaos Elemental isn't the only thing in the Wilderness, either. There are plenty of great spots for Slayer that carried the risk of Revenants, and now PKers. But now you're adding additional penalties to using those spots? Why use them then? Why do they even exist?

 

Because (forgive me if I'm wrong) but aren't extremes already disallowed from PVP? Special attacks have always been allowed. Adding extremes would only make things worse, it has no benefit.

 

But that's the point, it DOES have a benefit.

Soma, that extra 20-40 damage might not be much, but when you mathematically calc all possible hit combinations, you will see that the amount of extra KO's will be very significant.

 

It's like 1% and 0.1%. Might be only 0.9% difference, but the first one is 10x more likely.

I'm not even against considering removing (or 'nerfing') those weapons you mentioned, but allowing extremes/overloads is a very sizable jump in dps/max hit.

 

Really? Why don't we look at how big of a jump this max hit really is.

 

Since you want to look at a "strong" player versus the "average" joe, let's use this situation. You have a level 70 pure, meant for hunting and killing other players, up against a level 70 player who's relatively balanced combatwise.

 

bla bla bla

 

This is why picking on extremes of all things as being responsible for one-hit kos is ridiculous. Good weapons backed with good PvP stats are going to demolish mediocre equipment and average stats. Extremes are not going to change that. Good equipment and good defensive stats are going to save you from OHKOs. Again, extremes are not doing to change that.

Sub 80-combat is already very biased towards pures. That does not mean it is right to boost (I have the most problems with ext range) a 48-48 dbow special to 56-56.

It basically comes down to the fact that PVP is currently terribly unbalanced in terms of skill vs luck, DPS vs LP. Do we really want to make it worse?

 

Just because it is already bad doesn't mean it should be made worse.

 

Is it? As I already pointed out, optimal defense matches optimal offense pretty well. The only reason it's imbalanced is that optimal defense is harder to achieve right now. This could change. In fact, I'm sure it will change, if only because no one is really hunting Nex right now.

 

And of course you have to consider that even if Extremes make it worse, there are benefits.

 

Like I mentioned earlier, I've hunted Chaos Elemental many times with my new potions. It's a boss, and my primary reason for earning Extreme Potions was to use them against bosses. In my case, I like Herblore as a skill, but I know many people who detest it, yet sunk 100M+ into it so they could be more effective against bosses. Now you're telling them, without much of a warning, that one of the bosses is about to become more rewarding, yet you can not use the potions you spend 100M to access against it? When it's part of the reason they sunk that 100M in the first place? Chaos Elemental isn't the only thing in the Wilderness, either. There are plenty of great spots for Slayer that carried the risk of Revenants, and now PKers. But now you're adding additional penalties to using those spots? Why use them then? Why do they even exist?

 

I'm sorry to say, but PVP is the main point of the wilderness. There may well be very good things in the wilderness not related to PVP, but the main point of it is to have some PVP addition. There are also many places outside of the wilderness you can use your extremes, you are by no means being forced to never use them. The chaos elemental is such a limited boss (in that it is rarely killed) that PVP has to take priority over it.

 

I'm sorry to say, but max defence is never going to be balanced with max offence in PVP simply because the risk is made much higher. With Offence, you can use one item, but for defence you need multiple. Because of this, people end up going for offence over defence.

I wana see someone one hit me while im wearing armor...because it has honestly never happened.

That's because extremes are currently not allowed in pvp.

Soma, that extra 20-40 damage might not be much, but when you mathematically calc all possible hit combinations, you will see that the amount of extra KO's will be very significant.

 

It's like 1% and 0.1%. Might be only 0.9% difference, but the first one is 10x more likely.

 

So what? That doesn't address either of my points - if you're the "average" player, you're dead anyways against someone with good gear. And they can one-hit you either way. More likely, maybe, but Extremes are not the reason people OHKO each other. The reason lies within the weapon and the overpowered special attacks.

 

Sub 80-combat is already very biased towards pures. That does not mean it is right to boost (I have the most problems with ext range) a 48-48 dbow special to 56-56.

 

Except the average player is somewhere between level 70 and 90. As much as hanging out on Tip.It would lead you to believe, most players are NOT high leveled. Most players do NOT have multiple 99s. And most players, if they were to go into the wilderness, will be confronting pures. And yes, it's already very biased, but that's just adding to the point - it's the stats and the equipment, not the potions.

 

Also, I agree that Extreme Ranging is a problem. It's always been an oddball, since normal Ranging potions are so weak, and there's no Super to bridge the gap. I've never understood why we simply jump from normal to extreme for magic/ranged anyways. But again... why is the problem the Ranging potion and not the Dark Bow?

 

I'm sorry to say, but PVP is the main point of the wilderness. There may well be very good things in the wilderness not related to PVP, but the main point of it is to have some PVP addition. There are also many places outside of the wilderness you can use your extremes, you are by no means being forced to never use them. The chaos elemental is such a limited boss (in that it is rarely killed) that PVP has to take priority over it.

 

I'm sorry to say, but max defence is never going to be balanced with max offence in PVP simply because the risk is made much higher. With Offence, you can use one item, but for defence you need multiple. Because of this, people end up going for offence over defence.

 

Explain to me then, why Jagex has always tried to put non-PvP activities into PvP areas? Clue Scrolls. Training Spots. Monsters. Brawler Gloves. Even the planned "Wilderness Tag". Agility Course. The wilderness was never meant to be "PvP, don't come here for anything else."

 

Also, I'd love to see someone with ONLY D claws one hit me when I'm ONLY wearing divine. Heck, I'd love to see him two hit me. It's not happening. Divines are already being used in PvP, and Torva/Pernix/Virtus will be too. Good PKers don't mind high risk, because it balances out by lowering the actual chance of death.

I have extremes, and can get overloads w/o breaking my bank.

 

That being said, I'm still against them. Reason being, they were banned a day after they came out. Deemed overpowered by many, so I don't see anything wrong with it remaining banned.

 

Explain to me then, why Jagex has always tried to put non-PvP activities into PvP areas? Clue Scrolls. Training Spots. Monsters. Brawler Gloves. Even the planned "Wilderness Tag". Agility Course. The wilderness was never meant to be "PvP, don't come here for anything else."

 

Also, I'd love to see someone with ONLY D claws one hit me when I'm ONLY wearing divine. Heck, I'd love to see him two hit me. It's not happening. Divines are already being used in PvP, and Torva/Pernix/Virtus will be too. Good PKers don't mind high risk, because it balances out by lowering the actual chance of death.

 

Did you read what I said? There may be other things than PVP in the wilderness, but PVP has to take priority. If it didn't, we wouldn't be getting the wilderness back in the first place.

 

So a 30m item compared to an item which costs 600m+ is comparable is it? As it has been said, the offence of 30m is much easier to come by than 600m. And that is only one of the very few which can compare to the killing power of many of the OP weapons which are even easier to attain.

 

Explain to me then, why Jagex has always tried to put non-PvP activities into PvP areas? Clue Scrolls. Training Spots. Monsters. Brawler Gloves. Even the planned "Wilderness Tag". Agility Course. The wilderness was never meant to be "PvP, don't come here for anything else."

 

Also, I'd love to see someone with ONLY D claws one hit me when I'm ONLY wearing divine. Heck, I'd love to see him two hit me. It's not happening. Divines are already being used in PvP, and Torva/Pernix/Virtus will be too. Good PKers don't mind high risk, because it balances out by lowering the actual chance of death.

 

Did you read what I said? There may be other things than PVP in the wilderness, but PVP has to take priority. If it didn't, we wouldn't be getting the wilderness back in the first place.

 

So a 30m item compared to an item which costs 600m+ is comparable is it? As it has been said, the offence of 30m is much easier to come by than 600m. And that is only one of the very few which can compare to the killing power of many of the OP weapons which are even easier to attain.

 

If PvP should take priority, then move the non-PvP out so we can use our Extremes on them when we've worked hard and invested much to be able to do these non-PvP things. Either way, it's still a benefit to allow Extremes in Wilderness.

 

Also, prices are irrelevant in my opinion, because the balancing of prices lie elsewhere. All you need to do to switch that scenario is to give Dragon Claws to the Corporeal Beast and Sigils to the Tormented Demons. Offense and defense is balanced. Monster drops and ways of procuring the items may not be, but the items themselves are balanced.